Does Greg Oden have "it"
by jsmuc on Jul 27, 2008 5:29 PM PDT
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PrintA few posts back ben wrote about Greg Oden not watching any of the Blazer summer league games. I would fall into the catagory of fans that it does bother a little that he didn't watch Jerryd Bayless any. It seems to me that if your driving desire was to win an NBA title and there was going to be a core of about seven guys that are going to help you accomplish that goal and one of them was playing that you would at least want to watch him play.
From what I have heard it sounds like Gred has a good work ethic and what not, but does he have it. Does he have the burning desire inside of him to spend working on his game. Is he not satisfied with being great but being the best. Greg Oden has the talent to be the best center of all time, but does he have the desire that other great ones had. That is one of the reasons that I almost leaned toward Kevin Durant in the draft two years ago. Not because he was more talented but because I heard that he was a gym rat and that he was constantly trying to get better. I'm not saying that Greg Oden won't be good or even great. All I know is that Michael Jordan had "it" and he won six titles. I know thats what Portland wants. The question is does Greg have "It"?
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The only NBA Player of note that I saw at summer league was Carmelo Anthony
It’s all becoming clear now. Oden = flop. Anthony = “it.”
It’s KP time!
Give me a G (the letter, not the note)
Give me an O
Give me an N
Give me an E
GO is GOne!
I am the worst sports commentator ever. Please pass the cheesedoodles.
Are you saying that
Carmello Anthony is secretly a psychotic hallucinatory clown that lures children into the sewer?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
That movie
scared the ish out of me….....but clowns scare me.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Maybe you need to ask this again in a year or so
Right now my honest answer would be: I don’t know. Nobody can know it for sure at the moment, probably not even Greg himself.
The only thing we know is that he worked hard to get healthy again in his rehab, and that he is willing to adapt instead of quitting (shooting free throws with his off-hand in college). But we have not seen yet if he would do whatever is necessary to win a game/a title like a few of the great ones (pushing his defender aside…, confronting teammates that don’t work hard), if he would train hard to add something to his game every year even when no coach asks for it, and so on. Apparently there have been signs in his early career that could point either way (e.g. nbadraft.net: “works the lane constantly to get open”, “despite all the publicity Oden has received from an early age, he has remained humble and hungry to improve as a player …”, “Needs to add more nastiness on the floor to dominate”). So far those are just indications.
Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
I concur...
we really need to wait this one out. To be honest, I was a little dissapointed that Greg wasn’t keeping tabs on anybody, but Greg is probably trying the best that he can just to get through the summer without going absolutely insane. I mean seriously this guy doesn’t even really know what happened to his knee, yet people have been asking him the same exact questions about the incident and his current physical status for the past year….wouldn’t that be enough to drive anybody insane. On top of that, everybody’s got their eyes on every single move he makes whether it be for his own good or to get him in deep trouble. Let’s give Greg a break, and leave the questions for after his rookie season.
by blazerbeliever on Jul 27, 2008 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
I concur. I was on vacation during summer league but really*3 wanted to watch the games. As much as I tried I only got to see most of the last one. I may not be on the team but I also imagine G.O. has a whole lot more demands on his time than I have on mine. Heck, homebody Brandon admits to not seeing all of them.
“Silly” is the most chariable description of any question of Greg’s desire after witnessing his rehab and traveling with the team this last year.
Free Joel Freeland! (with the purchase of 1 Wafer)
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but the fact that someone would even question his desire based on whether or not he watched summer league is flat out silly. Give the man a break. It's the off-season. OFF!
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
Greg Doden really brought the extra D tonight!
He wasn't really part of the team last year
I was getting that vibe from some of Oden’s comments last year and think the fact that he was so separated from the team because of his injury he doesn’t feel part of the Blazer family… Yet. He did spend some time with both Nate and Josh (who was a Blazer at the time) this summer. Not worried about this, unless it does becomes a habit.
Joel Freeland=Stud
Who is Gred?
Do you mean Gred Ogen?
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi wondering how long we must wait until the season finally starts so we can see just how good the PTB really are.
jsmuc. You do know that you can fix spelling
in an original Fanpost. Gred is an easy fix.
That’s why I do Fanposts so often. That way noone will no I really are Fatty.
My guess is that he does have "it"
He’s always wanted to play, and he has really high energy for a monstrously big guy.
He may not have the B-Rex-type drive, but centers need less intensity and more skill. Zo is much more aggressive and mean than Shaq, but Shaq has (had) the skill to dominate. Greg does too, I’m sure, and so working hard and being coachable will be enough.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 27, 2008 7:01 PM PDT reply actions
Long Hot Summer
Yep, that’s what it is turning out to be. And with the that comes alot of hot wind. (Ahhh, the summer wind).
GO has been INJURED, and as I recall personally it made me shy away from the Rah Rah Rah stuff. I was patient and waited until I could once again “walk the walk” before I started back up with my “talk, talk, talk”.
Puleeze jsmuc, save your does he have “IT” posts till you have more info to “woik” with.
The Oden Era, Day 396
Yeah, but does he have what it takes to be a dentist?
Does he have that certain “it” that all great dentists have?
Winning is everything.
by MT Suit on Jul 27, 2008 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A desire to inflict pain?
My apologies to any dentists… Wait, isn’t that what all the great centers have, anyway?
You're an anti-dentite!
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum
by rockingharder on Jul 27, 2008 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
+1 for Seinfeld ref
In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
A Dentist?!?!
You can’t be a dentist, elves make toys!
Nice One.
You want a link? I'll give you a link. www.google.com
by tominhawaii on Jul 28, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Dang.....I punked out...
...and decided not to make that joke
Homer: "Oh no!! A Bear is eating my father!." (On seeing Selma kissing Grampa)
by 92wastheyear on Jul 28, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Why is everyone so sure he will be great?
He hasn’t proven a thing yet. He’s never even played a game.
--
by CaptainSexyJacob on Jul 27, 2008 7:44 PM PDT reply actions
just look at him.....
there hasnt been a physical specimine of his kind since shaq…and shaqs on the decline….
I hope he turns out to be a shaq/duncan combo…..with a little hakeem nastiness in him…..
hakeem though had the full repertoir on offense…something oden doesnt have yet…...
If he is half as good as hakeem, I’ll be happy….................and yes, he does have “it” he was born with it
by BroyTheTruth on Jul 27, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Simple answer: homerism
Everyone thinks Oden is a sure thing. His physique and athleticism would seem to suggest that everyone may be right about him. But it is true: he hasn’t proved a thing yet. If he can play defense without fouling too much, and if he can develop a reliable offensive game down low, then he will certainly improve our team. But he might not ever become a superstar. Just a reliable defensive-minded center who can also sink a few easy buckets down low. That may be his ceiling. Frankly I just hope that he can get through his first season without a major injury.
Winning is everything.
Rebounding is about DESIRE. Does Oden have it? No idea.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
Homerism has nothing to do with it
First, well played on the “all great dentists” comment above. Hilarious.
As for homerism, from high school to college to the draft to now, the widespread (if not universal) opinion of scouts around the league (as relayed by Chad Ford, etc) is that Oden will be one of the top 5 centers in the league by his third year, based on physical skills alone. And that’s not even accounting for the jump shot he’s supposedly developed over the past year. There’s just not much precedent for 7 footers being as quick, coordinated, and explosive as he is.
Compare him to Shaq or D-Ho, for example. Those guys were/are explosive as hell, and GO would be doing pretty well go have the same offensive power game. But GO was a better foul shooter than they are even shooting left-handed in college (after practicing for just a few months). He averaged 15/10 as a freshman (similar numbers to Ewing, Hakeem, etc) without his right hand. When his hand was just starting to get better, he single-handedly owned Hortford and Noah in the national championship (I was there – if OSU didn’t shoot 7% from three, they win that game in a wash). There’s just no precedent for his combination of size, athleticism, and ability.
In any event, a reliable center who gets a few buckets down low is clearly not his “ceiling.” That’s his floor.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
One of the top 5 centers eh?
There only seems to be about five good ones anyhow, but I get your point. He has the tools to dominate, but we need to see how well he can adapt to the NBA game. He’s a big, athletic dude and those guys always do well in the league.
All that being said
I doubt if he scores more than 15-18 per game this year. Hard to say, because we’ve never seen him healthy. But he’s not always assertive offensively. Defensively, and on the boards, he’s a force.
Another anecdote – before the OSU/Memphis game in the Elite Eight, Dorsey told the press Oden was overrated. After 40 minutes, Memphis was never really competitive, and Dorsey had something like 2 points and 2 boards. He looked so lost down low that, at one point, he just threw the ball straight up, like he was trying to hit the ceiling, and hoped for the best.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
Right
Dorsey is a big strong dude, but Oden thrashed him. I found an article about it.
How did that bravado work out for Dorsey? Well, last night he played 19 of the most foul-plagued and awful minutes anyone has ever seen in such a big game. Dorsey did not attempt a shot, did not score a point and took in all of three rebounds. Oden encountered foul trouble of his own but still managed 17 points and nine rebounds as Ohio State raced to a 92-76 victory over Memphis in the NCAA South Regional championship game.
“I didn’t know he was that strong inside,” Dorsey said. “With me fighting with him in the post, it was crazy. I was tired on defense so badly when we got on the offensive end I couldn’t get no rebounds. He’s a great player.”
by begottenson on Jul 28, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget 3.3 blocks per game...
...not to refute my own point.
--
by CaptainSexyJacob on Jul 27, 2008 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah you got it right.
In the NCAA title game, he dominated against 3 top 10 picks all of whom were noted for their D and he put up 25pts, 12 reb and 4 blks on 10-15 shooting or 67%
The only thing holding him back is his knee.
The blocks were along the lines of
pinning a Hortford power move to the glass with two hands, too. It was ridiculous. Hortford (the most effective rookie in the league last year) looked like a little kid playing with his dad (insert your favorite “Oden was in Abe Lincoln’s wedding” type joke here).
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
Yeah you wanna talk about making it look
like a father son game (Odens looks notwithstanding) check out this at 33secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhv5IP9HFFE
That is considered battery AND theft in 35 states. Perhaps the most devastating block I have seen in a long time. Check it.
WTF: a double-handed block/steal???
Nah, Oden has not proven that he can win in the NBA Finals. Until he dominates in the Finals, I guess we have to consider Oden a bust. Yes, sad, but to be happy having such a dominant big man would just make us homers. And who wants to be called a homer? It’s not like the Blazers won the lottery and got like the most incredibly dominant big man to come into the league for a decade.
Oh, right! We DID win the lottery and picked the most dominant big man to enter the NBA in a decade.
Controlling his foul situation will be crucial. If Oden gets a couple superstar calls a game, we are looking at a young Shaq who can make his free throws.
The UN-stoppable stopper!
The unstoppable force AND the immovable object!
Greg Oden!
'77
He has an "it"
personality. Look at him in his interviews. Seems totaly cool, honest, humble, and funny.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
Its a legit question
We don’t know yet, though all indications were he worked extremely hard at his rehab. You can be goofy and still have a strong desire to win.
We’ll learn a lot in this next year.
Boomshakalaka
Not really - for two reasons.
1) The guy hasn’t played a game yet, so questioning his desire is at best premature.
2) What does jsmuc – or anyone else here – really know about Oden as a person? Us discussing Oden’s psychological makeup is like two gynocologists discussing Daries Miles knee without ever examing him or seeing any of the x-rays, MRI’s etc.
Trying to argue that Greg Oden doesn’t have heart or the desire to be great is the result of one (or more) of the following:
a) Considerable interest and excitement over the Blazers
b) excess time on one’s hands
c) retardation
by timg56 on Jul 28, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Any combo of A, B, or C
justify asking the question as long as A is included. Our standards of justification must be different, but it’s not that cool to shoot someone down for asking questions.
Playing games may affect Oden’s passion and desire, but I can’t figure out why someone who has yet to play in the NBA may not have their passion questioned. A scout or GM would probably do well to consider and quesiton the passions of the potential draftees.
it’s true that someone with much experience and in-person time could better answer the question than anyone here, but if we need that sort of credential to ask and answer any question asked here, we might as well all go home.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
While I agree that people are free to state any opinion ...
... or ask any question, no matter how foolish, un-thought out or even inflamatory, I don’t agree that this means they can’t be called out. People seem to forget the flip side of the coin that’s freedom of expression. Your expression is subject to the comments of others.
It’s sort of inherent with blogs that fans are going to criticize players, coaches, ownership, etc from time to time. That doesn’t mean they are entitled to a free ride. Last season we saw all sorts of criticism leveled at Nate, at Jarrett Jack, at Webster, at the team’s performance, et el. After awhile it gets tiring, particularly when most of the criticism is coming from folks with questionable credentials for evaluating the performance of NBA players, coaches and teams. Would you pay attention to 2 twelve year olds criticizing the design and construction of the new Tacoma Narrows bridge, even if you knew they played with Legos alot? After awhile I’m betting you’d tell them they need to find sonething else to discuss. Preferably something they knew something about.
This whole Does Greg have it question is a perfect case in point. There is zero evidence for claiming or even questioning Oden’s desire for the game at this point. Yet people are offering up explainations as if they were the clinical psychiartist hired by the team to evaluate all of the players. Therefore I’m stating my opinion that it’s time for that reality slap to the back of the head.
Honestly.....What is "it"????
IMO “It” is the most intangible thing in sports, “it” has little to do with skill and everything to do with desire, passion, and willpower. “It” is very rare quality, “it” is mostly mental, and the rest is physical. A player with “it” doesn’t except failure lightly and does anything within their power to prevent failure from happening. A player with “it” puts everything they have into every single possession they are able to influence. A player with “it” wants and needs the ball when the game is on the line. Confidence is not an issue when a player has “it”, they always believe they will get it done and that confidence permeates to their teammates like a nasty case of the flu. Basically, a player with “it” perfects how to lead a team, put them on their back, and will them to over achieve every time they step on the floor.
So does Greg Oden have “it”. I don’t know and I don’t care. A team only needs one guy with “it” on their team, and we have that already. Brandon Roy epitomizes “it” and whether Greg has “it” or not is more or less insignificant. Roy will will Greg to play to the peak of his potential. Whether that is 7 and 7 or 25 and 15 is yet to be seen, but it will be the best Greg has to offer. Roy will raise the game of every right minded player to wear a blazers uni in the next 10 years. We don’t need Greg Oden to have “it”, we have Brandon Roy….
RUDY > MJ
Confidence
‘Confidence is not an issue when a player has "it"’
I would say that confidence IS “it”. At this level, everybody’s got mad skills. What distinguishes one player from another, more than anything else, is confidence. Larry Bird didn’t have the skills of Magic or even the skills of many role players of that era. But he had incredible confidence in himself. And that turned him into one of the greats.
In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
Brandon has IT... Rex has two people's worth of IT...
.......................................... Oden, man, I don’t know, we don’t know, but I think he’s more from the Channing Frye, laid back goofback mold rather than a fiery, take no prisoners COMPETITOR.
We’ll see. He’s young and we haven’t seen him, but I really don’t smell it.
It is reasonable to make this point, I think.
t
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
I dont know about Rex....
He has to actually make his teammates better before he has “it”. He is a fierce competitor though, but that doesn’t mean he has “it” in my humble opinion…
RUDY > MJ
We'll know in April.
Live at Doug Fir Lounge on Aug. 7, 9 pm -- YEAR 5000 -- http://www.myspace.com/y5k
Can you feel it, see it, hear it today? If you can't, then it doesn't matter anyway.
It’s it
What is it?
It’s it
What is it?
For real ya’ll, what is it?
You want a link? I'll give you a link. www.google.com
I here by call the Greg Oden era over.
Let’s close this sad chapter in Blazer history once and for all.
I'll miss him
there were some good times …
Live at Doug Fir Lounge on Aug. 7, 9 pm -- YEAR 5000 -- http://www.myspace.com/y5k
seriously?
he was injered the WHOLE time. what a bust
"Doing research= good
Making up things=bad."
---jksnake99
Could he be a Shaq?
Shaq is not a guy I would describe as having “it” as you describe. Definitely not somebody who is known as achieving what he has because of insane dedication and drive. I tend to value this sort of drive very highly, as it sounds like you do too. Oden does not strike me as having the drive either, although I really don’t know. This is based primarily on personality traits.
I am comforted by believing that we’ll have to settle for “just” Shaq.
That guy that responds to everything with a one liner...
will 9 times out of ten surprise you with a fierce dedication. One that Oden has displayed getting into trouble for playing pickup games, rehabbing all year long, and traveling with the team. And I don’t understand why somebody said he just might not feel like a part of the team. Did anybody else read where he said his recovery was made easier by how cool the guys were and how much effort they put forth into making him feel like part of the team. He sounds pretty comfortable and determined to me.
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
Greg Doden really brought the extra D tonight!
But not in the offseason
he was shooting movies and making music. “It” I think applies more to 6’4 guys than dinosaur-sized creatures like Shaq and Oden.
Jordan does not strike me as a Summer League guy
Jordan had it, but I do not think he would have been caught anywhere near a summer league game unless Vegas had a line on the game or something. I do not envision Shaq watching Phoenix’s team or Kobe wasting his time watching Coby Karl or Jamal Crawford. We are fans and watch everything Blazer related during the dog days of summer. If I were paid Millions and had to play 82-120 games a year. I just might wait until camp to see what the rooks bring as well!
We're Blasting an Athlete for Not Watching TV?
I don’t think it makes sense to criticize Greg for failing to watch summer league on TV. While it is important that guys watch tape, they are generally watching tape either of (a) themselves, to improve on weaknesses; (b) opponents, to learn tendencies; or© players that they have something to learn from. If Greg never did any of these things, then blast away. None of those things is at issue here. Greg is not a scout. And, I sincerely doubt that he would learn anything relevant about these new teammates from watching summer league that he won’t learn in the very first practice with them. Let’s be careful to delineate the things that are important to a player from the things that are important to a fan.
Does Greg Oden have IT?
You’re point that there are people who place basketball as number one and are insane about it (jordan, magic, and so on) and then there are those who have a ton of talent but that drive that makes the difference from very good to legend just isn’t there (Vince Carter).
Which is Greg?
Too early to say, but I’d guess that Roy and Bayless have more of this than Greg. Good question. Frankly, as long as Greg is great, we really don’t need him to be legend. If he hungers for that legend spot… wow… lookout world.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Same question, different year...
People asked this last year when some were talking about drafting Durant because of his intense passion. They said Greg didn’t have the competitive fire that KD did. Oden’s response to this was something like:
“I’ve lost less than 10 games in the last 10 years. How else can I prove it?”
Greg is a competitor. Look at his block in the Tennessee game if you question his drive and intensity. Rebounding about fire and passion? The guy jumped over his teammate to block a game winning attempt.
I can’t define “it”, but he sure as heck has something.
that was disgusting
i had not seen it yet, and that got me out of my depression and started making me feal good, even giddy. he is sooo effin good.
"Doing research= good
Making up things=bad."
---jksnake99
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