KC had something interesting on tb.com
http://trailblazerscentercourt.blogspot.com/2008/07/cap-space-2009-reporters-already.html
The part of the post that caught my attention was the Chicago writer suggesting that we might trade Travis and Channing for Deng. If the bulls offered how could we say no?
Channing looks to have his rotation minutes cut by the addition of Oden, and let's face it... Travis is a ball stop who still is lacking defensively. Deng is a better defender, distributer, and probably even as a scorer. More importantly he fits in better with our starters because he doesn't dominate the ball like Travis.
I hear what you're saying, if we trade Travis where does the second unit get it's points? Answer: Bayless, Rudy, and Martel would all contribute. Remember, most good teams only play an 8 man rotation anyway, so we really do have to try to upgrade in some 2 of 1's just to keep our best players on the floor as much as possible.
I don't like that we'd be trading two guys who can play power forward, but with the perimeter guys providing most of the scoring off the bench a big hustle guy in the Milsap form would probably be preferable to the Channing LA skilled guy anyway. And, thankfully, there are a dozen 25-28 year old 6'10'' guys, who work out and hustle, but are lacking offensively, who would love a shot at the 10th spot on the bench. EG Chris Ellis, or Steven Hill just from our own summer league roster.
So, Trout and Frye for Deng?
73 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
No,
a hundred times, no. #25 and all of that.
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
you guys are a bunch of homers
cmon..Deng is a better player than Outlaw now and always will be better….Deng’s all around player..Outlaw is one dimensional.. scoring..that’s all he can do.. he doesn’t pass much and or play good defense…
It's the price that I don't like. I don't really care about Deng.
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
wow, im surprised the vote is so close.....
outlaw is better than Deng offensivly, flat out…......hes gonna be better period….he’s unselfish, hes a team guy….hes roys best friend….he has more athletic potential, and can dunk harder….the dude is nasty…....and he’s clutch.
people are surprisingly high on deng after such a terrible season
trades like this are crazy….i wouldnt trade any of our guys at this point, unless it was for lebron/cp3 like talent. maybe chris bosh, dwight howard…i’ll throw em in the mix, but we already got those positions covered..Oden and aldridge just need time to mature.
Although, i would like a shane battier/ron artest type coming off the bench. But i dont really like shane battier or ron artest. So thats out…especially if we had to give up something important…namingly travis
I’m in the boat of don’t make any trades unless something great comes knocking at your doorstep..
by BroyTheTruth on Jul 23, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, you just don't get it
Travis is the Man. He ain’t gonna get traded. Yeah sure, Deng was a better player two years ago and maybe last year too. Travis will surpass him in most categories within the next two years. Blazer management knows that and that’s why they won’t trade him.
Channing is here to stay too.
Where have all the flowers gone?
by bilingual octopus on Jul 23, 2008 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I would do this trade
Diogu can replace Frye (and do some things that Frye can’t) and Deng is a lot better than Travis (and pretty much the same age). Plus this opens up another roster spot, possibly for us to bring Petko in and get some experience in Idaho.
Boomshakalaka
i don't know
I don’t mind trading a 2 for 1 including outlaw and frye, but I don’t think Deng is a good fit for the Blazers. Mainly because he wants too much money, (over $60 million) and his production if on the Blazers simply wouldn’t demand that type of money. Look at it this way. Deng avg 18.8 pts while taking 15 shots per game in 2006-2007, his best year, (hitting an amazing 51%). Travis avg 13.3 pts on 12 shots per game last year, his best year, (hitting 43% of his shots, however he attempted way more 3pts shots).
If we were to aquire Deng, his attempts will most likely go down to the 11-12 range that Travis avg last year. He would be playing with ROY, LMA, and GO in the first unit, all 3 of which should get more than that many attempts, which means Deng would be 4th or at best 3rd on the offensive totem pole. Is that player worth over $60 million for 5 years?
Travis is perfectly suited in his current role on this team, and he makes $4 million per, and when his contract is up in two years, he will likely be able to be signed for only a modest raise. To me, he is the better option of the two, because I firmly believe the Blazers do not need another star, they need star role players who know their role, and play it will.
by usmcr3049 on Jul 23, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good summary
and that’s why I don’t think KP will deal for Deng.
by spencerbutte on Jul 23, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
very fair point
Travis’ contract is something I overlooked in my post. There is value in having a good player with a reasonable deal. He seems to be comfortable in his role and likes his situation with the Blazers. This could allow us to keep him at a good price well into the future. The importance of that shouldn’t be underestimated.
Good call on your part.
Boomshakalaka
Travis Contract
I’d bet his next contract is in the $7M – $8M per range. Maybe 3 yr / 24M range with a player option for a 4th year.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Here, here!
That is exactly the point. Adding any current superstar to our roster would be a tremendous waste of money and would most likely cause eventual unrest and bickering in the locker room (even with our great guys, they are young and they are human). I hope we hold our course and see what this current team can do. They are all friends, they will share the ball with each other because that’s what Nate has had them do since they were rooks, and they are a team. Let’s see how it goes. A pseudo young all-star point guard would be the only big change I’d make, and that’s not gonna happen any time soon.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to Keep Comment Boards Sucka Free"
He just dont get it
I bet he even named his grand prize monster truck
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi wondering how long we must wait until the season finally starts so we can see just how good the PTB really are.
Keep what we have
for another season.
The Blazers are almost SOLD OUT. (fans are excited with what we have)
CAP money is coming. (to retain or best players)
Batum will be the insurance in 2 years if Webster and/or Outlaw don’t continue to develop.
Can’t see KP doing a deal like this now.
by spencerbutte on Jul 23, 2008 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
No Deng
I don’t think Deng is really all that much better than Travis…
Actually, let me modify that. I don’t think Deng can contribute much more than Outlaw on this team. And that’s what really matters.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
by manzell on Jul 23, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
better defender
Deng can bring to this team defense, something Outlaw cant’ do much of.
I like Batum now, just because your comment.
A championship team is like a smoothie. Each ingredient is great by itself but when it is joined with other ingredients, you get something spectacular. You’ll notice when someone makes a smoothie, that they don’t stuff everything into the blender all at once, they add them in stages, so that all the components, and the blender, have time to adjust.
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
but what if
you put in too many boosts? You can get in real trouble if you add an energizer along with mental. People have died from that kind of poor boost management.
I guess what I am saying is what type of boost is Batum. I would guess cowardice due to his french roots and my xenophobic roots.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
If Batum is a boost then I'd bat an eyelid at the boast that Batum is a bust
Are we dizzy yet?
What on earth is happening with tominhawaii? The dude must be off his meds. What is that bizarre signature line supposed to mean?
Homer fans..
Look guys we all love our players, and a part of every Blazer fan wants to see our home grown players develop into great producing players on this team when he starts to make noise in the playoffs. However we have to be realistic, now I don’t like Deng for the Blazers, mainly because I don’t think he is a good fit for our system, and will want too much money for the production we will need from him, (considerably(sp?) less than CHI needs from him). But that doesn’t mean every trade idea that includes Outlaw or Web or Frye should be turned down simply because they are included!
If we can move a combo of Travis and Frye to upgrade our starting SF spot, than KP will and should do it, and ultimately I think he will do it. Outlaw is a very valueable trading piece for this team, and to get where they want to go, the Blazers will have to give up some pieces they value highly.
Not wanting to trade Outlaw for Deng doesn't make us homers
Spending too much time on BE makes us homers. Bottom line: the ROI for Deng is way too high. We have lots of future stars on the team already. KP should be looking at value for the dollar now, unless Paul Allen has directed him to spare no expense, which I doubt he has. If I were PA, I’d definitely want to see what this team could do in the next year or two before deciding I need to recreate the original Dream Team.
Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."
by MiledAnimal on Jul 23, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My point was to those who would say, “we can’t trade travis, because he is travis.” Not to those who are saying, “we shouldn’t trade travis for Deng”. As I am in the camp that would not want deng on the Blazers, however I would trade Travis for another player who is an upgrade to him, but still fits the Blazers system, and doesn’t cost 4 to 5 times as much. Travis is a role player, more importantly he is an offensive role player who has yet to learn good defensive fundementals. If we can trade him and upgrade to a player who excels defensively yet can still hit an open jumper I would be fine with it.
So would I
but I don’t think there is anyone we could get for a reasonable price who would be a level better than Travis or Martell. Can you think of anyone?
Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."
by MiledAnimal on Jul 23, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tayshawun Prince
His contract is “only” around $8 mil this year, and to me he is much better than Outlaw at what the Blazers will need. He play wonderful defense, both team wise and individual, and his offense is similar to Outlaws, very similar infact. But I would also trade Outlaw for a player that significatly upgrades another position as well, if all of our current pg’s don’t make it, I would use him to get someone who can. The only point I am making is that we can trade Outlaw if we get good return on him. He is not off-limits and the price to get him is much lower than our big 3.
And it would take more than Trout, Web, and Frye to get him.
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
maybe you know better than I
but it seems that Travis has a couple of effective moves in the half court; pull ups, fade away jumper, turnaround jumper, with his pull up being his most effective. He has zero post game.
From what I have seen from Prince he has these along with a catch and shoot and a post game that he utilizes to great effect.
Those 2 things, in my mind, make them drastically different on offense with Prince coming out ahead.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
two words
Danny Granger. his salary is 2.3 mil. Outlaw- 4 mil. Webster- 3.8 mil
Ah yes, Mr. Granger
I remember rumors around the trade deadline that one of KP’s targets was Granger. He’s young and seems like he would fit well on this team. Tayshaun and Granger would do best to fill that position. Oh, and also Rudy Gay.
Beaver believer!
by mannyfresh1 on Jul 23, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Granger or Gay
would be a much better fit for the team IMO than Deng.
I like Deng as a player, but as a 4th or 5th option on the black unit we need a guy who can hit the kickout 3 with consistency.
People have been talking up trading for Deng or Ben Gordon, I think Luol Deng is a much better player but i think Gordon would be a much better fit so long as he could accept a reduced role (as he’s over 40 pct from 3 for the career IIRC)
by DominicanAvenger on Jul 23, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree, Granger or Gay would be great targets
Didn’t think about Gay because he seems even harder to get than Granger since he is on virtually the same level 3 years earlier.
And I’m still mad that the trade with Minny prevented the Gay-Love era in Memphis ;-)
Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
I think that's why the trade was made.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Yeah but again Deng is too darn expensive
No way the Blazers dedicate such a large pile of $$ to a high profile SF when they have other stars to keep in the fold and they have a perfectly serviceable SF in Trout.
MiledAnimal is right. There are rational reasons for retaining the SF status quo.
Negative
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 23, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Hate to say no, but No.
Lewis & Clark got nothing on these boys next year.
by Y5k on Jul 23, 2008 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Deng
I think Deng can be another real star. So what if he’s not home grown. I love Travis’ play, his willingness to take clutch shots and the way he fits in so well. But he’s not in Deng’s class. Deng’s numbers suffered last year because Paxson let the Kobe trade rumors go on way to long.
IF KP thinks Deng will fit on this team I’d say do it. If his makeup won’t let him be 2nd to Brandon then it’s true we don’t need him.
How many stars can a team have?
You really do get to a point of not only diminishing returns, but where you start hurting the team by having too many competing interests at the expense of good team play.
I’m not saying don’t trade any of these guys, but I think the team needs to wait a year. They’ve got three rookies to work into the rotation now. That’s enough upheaval for one year.
Next year, after we see how things work, after we’ve seen Travis and Martell’s develpment, will be the time ti do some roster consolidation.
by raoulduke on Jul 23, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No Deng way
A statistical comparison that is interesting is that Deng is blocked on 21% of his jump shots compared to Travis’ 3% leading to an eFG% of 28.6% for Deng and 43.2% for Travis on jump shots. Deng made just 8 3-pointers last year (36.4%) while Travis made 40 3-pointers (39.6%). Deng is a good dunker and in-the-paint scorer while Travis we know can score from anywhere.
In my view Travis is better than Deng straight up. No trade. He is our big 4 addition.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Jul 23, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
mistake
When looking up the % of deng’s jumpshots that were blocked last year you accidently looked at only the “clutch play” numbers. Deng’s complete numbers are on this page: http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI9A.HTM It shows he was blocked on 4% of his jumpshots.
So he is ok because we won't play him in clutch?
Thanks for the correction.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
I think Deng is ok
but he is a dookie. Every Dookie is required to opt out of their final year of their contract (to give the team more flexibility) and then bolt to another team thus screwing their original team…...it is on their diplomas….in ink
so no
Mortimer: "It’ll be so nice I’ll need microfracture—ON MY WEINER."
who else has done this
I guess Boozer sort of did it, but more underhandedly, but I dont know anyone else.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Brand and Boozer is who I am thinking of
Homer: "Oh no!! A Bear is eating my father!." (On seeing Selma kissing Grampa)
by 92wastheyear on Jul 23, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess
that is true about Brand, although there was all that weirdness with David Faulk on the LAC deal with him holding a grudge about Bibby and Sterling in turn trying to cut Faulk out of the negotiations
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I think Trout and Martell
Are on notice,whichever of you improves the most on D before the trade deadline gets to stay and the other is down a road
by southern oregon on Jul 23, 2008 1:53 PM PDT reply actions
Eh...
Yes and no. This isn’t the championship season, and KP doesn’t like to deal at the deadline. I think the notice to those two is that they have one year to play some D, and then KP is doing more draft-day dealing to bring home a defensive SF.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum
by rockingharder on Jul 23, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
The defection of Childress adds
something to the Webster saga as teams may not want to trade for a player in his last year before free agency. He needs to sign an extension before October 31st but it might be in Martell’s best interests to ride it out and not have a qualifying offer extended making him an unrestricted free agent.
Travis is signed through 2010 (team option) and not under the same risk.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
Why give up Outlaw
If Deng takes the 1 year contract and becomes unrestricted,
we can get him NEXT year without giving anybody up
(hear DAVE’s comments on podcast).
how would this trade work dollar wise
Travis + Channing=7.16mil while Luol has a already rejected a higher offer and will make 4.5mil under the qualifying offer. It seems like it would take more dollars on are part to make this work assuming he signs an offer sheet.
Also, Luol doesnt spread the floor so he seems like a poor fit.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Lets see.... Chicago bailing on its guys
while the PTB develops theirs. Yea good call.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi wondering how long we must wait until the season finally starts so we can see just how good the PTB really are.
The Mississippi Kid
for the Sudanese Sulker – Never Never Never
TRAVIS AVERAGED...
only 13 points a game last season compared to dengs 17.
and guess what?? Luol Deng is younger!!! So the whole idea of travis having more potential or future doesnt make much sense.
this is show business, not show friends.
i think gavin dawson is right when he says we totally over rate outlaw
chicka chicka yeah
the question is
would Deng be willing to take the Travis role of being the show on offense on the white unit off the bench
and the answer is no IMO
Martell would be a better fit for the starters as he spreads the floor. The value of travis lies not in his ability to mesh with the starting 5 but his attitude and willingness to come off the bench and provide scoring there. Martell doesn’t do as well as the primary option on a unit (unless it’s on a day when he’s playing like Reggie Miller and going off), and you’re not seriously telling me you think Deng, a guy who turned down a 57 million dollar extension, is gonna be willing to come off the bench, even if he knows he’ll get his share of shots up
I don’t think it has anything to do with overrating outlaw (not denying we’re guilty of it, I am too) but with Deng just not being the right fit. As posted above, you throw Danny Granger’s name out there and i’m listening a lot more seriously
by DominicanAvenger on Jul 23, 2008 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's see
a starting primary scoring option on a big market team gets 15.4 ppg in 07
compared to
a second team guy getting 13.3 ppg in far fewer minutes off the bench
rebounds are nearly identical
and when the games on the line – who will block the shot
who will get the ball for the last shot – and bury it?
nicely played
you efectivly pushed me back to outlaw
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
I love what travis brings off the bench
And a lot of guys must start or their fragile young egos will be shattered but you can not have opposing teams preparing to play you licking their chops because both of your 3’s are totally helpless against a high screen and wondering what happened when the guy you are suposed to be guarding scores backdoor which pretty much sums up Travis and Martells defensive game.
by southern oregon on Jul 23, 2008 8:43 PM PDT reply actions
If Blazer fans
were really Homers, then
Brandon Roy would be Hercules and
GO would be a son of the basketball God.
I thought they were
Homer: "Oh no!! A Bear is eating my father!." (On seeing Selma kissing Grampa)
by 92wastheyear on Jul 23, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't even matter, we can sign him later if he stays there.
I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.
#25
A hundred times #25.
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Jul 24, 2008 12:33 AM PDT reply actions
You are my hero.
Does the paradox of us being eachother’s hero create some kind of rift in the space/time of BlazersEdge?
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Jul 24, 2008 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh no! It mends the rift and transcends the space time continuum. #25 forever.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
BTW
Just say no to Dengs.
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Jul 24, 2008 4:17 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Premature
Any discussion of Deng needs to be put in the context of our cap and the players we can expect to be available next year. Further, if Deng opts out, as one blogger mentioned, we can sign him next year and trade nothing. At the same time, we will be putting a very different team on the floor this coming year, as opposed to last year. Travis has good 6th man production and can play two positions, SF & PF. Frye can also give us effective minutes at two postions, C and PF. Until we allow the 4 rookies we’re inserting to gel with the team (Bayless, Fernandez, Oden and Batum), we don’t actually know where are greatest needs are going to be. If Oden is durable, then Pryz may ultimately be the primary trading chip downstream if we need one, as Frye can cover two spots. If Bayless can turn into the right complement for Roy, then Fernandez would be the third option off the bench. If Fernandez is as effective in shooting in the NBA as he was in Europe, he could even slide over to give us minutes at SF at times – particularly given the height, length and athleticism we have at C and PF. If Outlaw and or Webster take their games up another notch, then given that Outlaws production last year over the last 66 games was 14.3 ppg in 26 minutes, which would be 20 ppg over 35, we may get the kind of production we want and need at SF in the new system w/Oden, Bayless, Roy and Fernandez. We tend to think in present terms, not future terms. Oden, Pryz and Frye enables Aldridge to permanently settle in at PF. Further, teams will no longer be able to double team him given Oden. Outlaw will settle in at SF – and very few other SF’s in the league can guard Outlaw effectively. Further, he will no longer have to guard other PF’s – only the SF’s. But these are all if’s right now.
KP talks in three year terms – as he should. Since defensive and offensive assignments are going to change once Oden, Bayless and Fernandez are inserted into the lineup, I think that adding another player at any position is a little premature right now. In a sense, it would be a blind trade, in that we’d be giving up two pieces for one, but would not be entirely sure that the team would be that much better. Webster is still only 21. Outlaw is 23 but developed slowly. The new frontcourt will change the defensive assignments at SF.
However, by next spring I think we’ll begin to get some clarity. Then, we’ll have the cap space. As much fun as it is to talk about Deng, I doubt that KP, right now, is likely to add a player with his contract until he can be certain that this works for the entire team. Once you own those contracts, after all, as we found out with LaFrenz, Francis, and all the rest, you own them – and they can become a real millstone.
After all, how much more would you pay for 4 or 5 ppg and two ror 3 rebounds – because that’s what we’re really talking about. Deng wants $12 million a year. That’s $4 million to $5 million more that Outlaw will actually get, and as much as both Outlaw and Webster are likely to sign for. Are the two better than the one?

by 

























