Oden and the top 5 centers of all time

by inallthetime on Jul 22, 2008 8:15 PM PDT

I know there has been a lot of hype for the Blazers center Greg Oden this year, along with the rest of the team. I have to admit that I get excited thinking about the expectations of the team with Greg in the middle. I find it easy to imagine that Oden will be one of the great centers. Especially with all the hype on him out there. It's easy to get caught up with the thought that the Blazers might have one of the greatest centers of all time. Reality is that no one will know until it actually happens, and he at least plays a season. Even though so many prognosticators have said things like "he is the one of a once in a decade centers.", or "he is the next Bill Russell".

I decided I would go and compare him to the top 5 centers of all time. I reviewed their impact as rookies and their overall careers. I personally don't believe that he will have to be one of the top 5 centers of all time for the Blazers to be an eventual championship team. I think he only needs to be a top three center in the league now. I base that on the other hype which is the surrounding cast around Oden, The overall team and the hyped job that the miracle worker Kevin Pritchard has done.

The top 5 centers I have selected were not based on my research. But, I do feel that it is hard to argue with these 5. I will attach the website at the end so you can see where I got my info. I'm only looking at the main statistical factors, Points, Rebounds and Assists. I would include blocks but can't find the stats for some of the old timers in that category. These top five were based on stats not championships.

#1 Wilt Chamberlin Rookie, Points 37.6, Rebounds 27, Assists 2.3/ Career, Points 30.1, Rebounds 22.9, Assists 4.4

#2 Kareem Abdul Jabaar Rookies, Points 28.8 Rebounds 14.5, Assists 4.1/ Career, Points 24.6, Rebounds 11.2, Assists 3.6

Bill Russell Rookie, Points 14.7, Rebounds 19.6, Assists1.8/ Career, Points 15.1, Rebounds 22.5, Assists 4.3

Hakeem Olajuwon Rookie, Points 20.6, Rebounds 11.9, Assists1.8 / Career, Points 21.8, Rebounds 11.1, Assists 2.5

Shaquille O’Neal Rookie, Points 23.4 Rebounds 13.9 Assists 1.9 /Career Points 25.2, Rebounds 11.5, Assists 2.7

Overall averages from all 5 Rookie, Points 28.7, Rebounds 17.3, Assists 2.3 / Career Points 23.3 Rebounds 16, Assists 3.1

Now after reviewing the stats of the first three I decided that the generation the first three played in were not numbers they would be capable of getting now. It is obvious that they had such a huge physical advantage during that time. Realizing that the NBA now has SF's that play at 7 Ft. tall. But really looking at Hakeem and Shaquille I would think that if Oden is a dominant center like they say HE COULD BE, why we wouldn’t look at those rookie stats they had.

Shaq and Hakeem combined rookie avg. Points 22 Rebounds 12.9 Assists 1.85 Blks 3

There are always factors involved. You can use history for so many statistical facts. I can just imagine him getting rookie of the year. Especially if Oden has anywhere near Shaquille's or Hakeem's rookie years stats. I would have to believe that if he does have anywhere close to 18 points and 12 rebounds the Blazers would be looking at a bigger jump then 7 or 8 games. I would have to believe they would see more of the jump that Orlando had when Shaq came into the league. The team has so much going for them, chemistry, inside game, outside game and more important a major facilitator in Roy, and several major finisher with the addition of Rudy and Bayless. I can't wait till November.

http://www.geoclan.com/sports/articles/06/TopFiveCentersinNBAHistory.htm

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I just can't imagine

watching a center collect 38 and 27 on a regular basis. That is just insane…

I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.

by MGNNoah on Jul 22, 2008 8:30 PM PDT reply actions

no kidding

I can’t even do that on NBA LIve or NBA 2K!

myspace.com/marktwainindians

by mark twain on Jul 22, 2008 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions

you need

to up that quarter length

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 22, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions

And turn off

the fouls. Then you can knock guys out of the paint and get the boards yourself. You could do this on NBA 2003 anyway.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Jul 23, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions

That was the coolest thing in the world pre 2000,

It was hilarious just running around and pushing guys down on the ground and taking the ball, because the AI didn’t allow them to do this back to you!

I want to be tucked in by Greg Oden and have him tell us stories about the old days.

by MGNNoah on Jul 23, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Yesss!

That’s how I did it in NBA Live 96 for the SNES, anyway.

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

by rockingharder on Jul 23, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions

I did it on NBA live.

as a PG. I could throw it up on down. Averaged
14 assists and 12 steals. Averaged a QUAD double.

Nobody could hang with the BLAZERS !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Jul 23, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions

I would struggle doing that vs. 6th graders

"Rudy Fernández ha confirmado hoy que la próxima temporada jugará en el Portland Trail Blazers"

by $chonzarelli on Jul 22, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Two words: Savage Elbows

Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."

by MiledAnimal on Jul 22, 2008 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Amazing as those numbers are

they pale in comparison to the one number that has truly come to define Wilt’s statistical greatness:

20,000

by knickfan on Jul 22, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions

He has a ways to go

To catch up with me. Maybe my impending old age will help close the gap.

Bayless4Ever

by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 22, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Just wait until Oden averages 45 and 30.

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

by rockingharder on Jul 23, 2008 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Don't get too impressed

with Wilt’s rookie year. In his 3rd year he averaged 50 and 26. It gets better, in his 9th year he averaged 9 assists. The man could do anything he set his mind to with the exception of free throws.

by fat27 on Jul 23, 2008 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions

I watched Wilt at Kansas and as a rookie (a few TV games)

Wilt was only warming up as a rookie. There were a few good centers in the league with him (Nate Thurmond comes to mind) and not many teams so they learned all of his moves more quickly. It was not his height only that made Wilt dominant. It was his athleticism as well. Just look at the rules put in to stop Wilt from owning the league.

My favorite story about Wilt was in his prime he challenged Ali to a boxing match and Ali declined. Wilt was a legend in strength (not as a rookie) and with his reach even dancing like a butterfly might hurt with one of th9ose wallops. Wilt did box as an amateur I believe.

Wilt pulled down 55 rebounds in a game once against Russell! Anyway Greg is not likely to be that level right away but has every possibility of being in the top 10 in rebounds and blocks.

Greg will not need score like these guys on this team but rebounds are not selfish!

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 22, 2008 9:50 PM PDT reply actions

Also a track athlete

At Kansas he ran the 100 in 10.9, threw the shot 56 feet, triple jumped over 50 feet and won the Big 8 high jump three straight years. People scoff at his ridiculous numbers but I maintain with today’s fitness training and nutrition and coaching the guy would’ve been way more dominant than MJ.

Free Joel Freeland! (with the purchase of 1 Wafer)

by LaughingJon on Jul 23, 2008 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions

I also heard that

he could run a sub-50 400 as well

The street lights is on.

by Magnum on Jul 23, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

I watched Wilt curl 250 lbs.

with one arm. Have you ever seen a 250 lb dumbell ?

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Jul 23, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions

A more realistic yardstick

Despite the heady comparisons, I’m not sure I would use any of those Top-5 all time centers to try and project Oden’s first year numbers. As inallthetime correctly points out, Wilt, Russell & Kareem were playing in a much different league back then. Shaq and Hakeem seem a little closer to reality but I’m thinking that’s still a bit off the mark as both of their offensive games were much more NBA ready when they came into the league than Oden’s figures to be. They were also immediately thrust into the role of primary offensive option on poor teams whereas Greg will probably be no better than the third option for Portland.

I’m thinking that in Oden’s first year, a best case comparison would be someone like Dikembe Mutombo. Coming out of Georgetown, he had the reputation of a defensive specialist with a limited offensive game. In his first year with the ‘91-’92 Nuggets, Mutombo averaged 16.6 pts, 12.3 rebs, 2.0 asts, 3.9 blocks. With Roy and Aldridge assuming the lion’s share of the scoring duties, 16.6 pts may not be easily reached (Dikembe was actually Denver’s second leading scorer that year, behind Reggie Williams) However, the rebound and block numbers don’t seem that far-fetched and are not too far off the Shaq/Hakeem rookie averages in those same categories.

by knickfan on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM PDT reply actions

GO = Deke?

Just shoot me now.

Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."

by MiledAnimal on Jul 22, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Remember

we’re talking Oden’s possible first year numbers – not his entire NBA career.

With that in mind, would you honestly be disappointed if Oden matched Mutombo’s rookie averages of 16.6 pts, 12.3 rebs, 2.0 asts, 3.9 blocks? D’ya think that’s setting the bar too low?

by knickfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions

that would be a fabulous rookie season

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 22, 2008 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions

agreed

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Jul 25, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions

That's a darn high bar

But Oden = Mutombo sounds good to me. That’s a reasonable thing to hope for.

Hakeem is a stretch goal, Mutombo is the goal, but it’s a success if he’s at least a Mutombo-light

Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student

by rmcdougall on Jul 22, 2008 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Hakeem is not a stretch goal

if we’re talking career.

I’m not saying Greg >will< match Hakeem in production, but I don’t think it is unreasonable for him to have that as a goal, at all. And it won’t be any great surprise if he achieves that.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 23, 2008 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Hakeem's game plus Mutombo's blocks and durability shudder

Where do I sign for perennial All-Stardom and 5+ championships?

(I can’t clearly remember that many games of Hakeem, but I do remember admiring and trying to imitate his unbelievably quick moves not just for a big man around his pivot foot in the post before dunking it in or going up for a hook over his helpless defender. It would be awesome if Oden could develop such a game quickly.)

Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Jul 23, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions

I guess I was thinking of the finger wag

No, I’m not going to be too disappointed if GO has a Deke-like first season, as long as he follows that with Wilt-, Kareem, and Shaq-like seasons. I’m more concerned that he make a full recovery from his microfracture surgery than tear the league apart in his rookie season. It’s just that when you look at his Wilt-like gifts and skills, the only people who can stop GO from doing whatever he wants are GO and Nate.

I’d rather see the Blazers ram GO down the throats of opponents and dare them to stop him than run a perimeter offense and use GO just for dunks, rebounds, and putbacks. I remember how effective and demoralizing that was when Shaq did it to us and everyone else. I want GO to lead the league in scoring and rebounding each season. I want to see other teams unable to stop him, leaving our perimeter players open because they are double- or triple-teaming him. I want the rest of the league to make desperate, silly trades in hopes of matching-up with the Blazers.

Let’s face it: It’s unlikely any of our players individually are ever going to scare anyone in the league, with one exception: GO. I hope Nate GOes for it, because I will be disappointed if the Blazers and GO decide he should be just another M-16 rifle in our arsenal when he has the potential to be an M-1 tank.

Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."

by MiledAnimal on Jul 23, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Me thinks

Me thinks that the offense WILL be run through GO. I can’t see any reason not to, especially with LMA running the high post / opposite block.

Tit would be silly not to…....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 23, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions

We also gotta remember

Most of the recent hall of fame centers didn’t enter the NBA after their freshman year.

Something similar to Dikembe’s rookie year would be awesome and combined with our improvement record wise would get oden the ROTY, easy.

Those stats would be amazing numbers to build on.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 23, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Dwight Howard Comparison?

Its hard to figure what to expect with Greg because of the injury and he hasn’t played competitive basketball for a year now. I think Howard’s rookie numbers (12 pts, 10 rebs, 1.7 blks) are a reasonable expectation.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Jul 23, 2008 1:07 AM PDT reply actions

I think Dwight's a good guy to choose

The question is, should we use his year 1 stats as the bar, or should we use his year 3 stats (when he was the same age as Greg will be). I say we split the difference and hope for his year 2 numbers- 15.8, 12.5 and 1.4 (his blocks actually went down)?

If he falls short of that and puts up Superman’s rookie year numbers, I’d be ok with that. As WarEagle says, its tough to know how he’ll respond after being away from hoops for a year.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 23, 2008 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions

GO's #'s

I think his season numbers are going to greatly depend on how quickly he picks up the game. Remember, he hasn’t played a real game of basketball in a year. It’s going to take him a while to get comfortable again.

I do think, by the end of the season, he’ll be putting up some monster games.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 23, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

There's so many factors

1. He’s only had one year of college ball, these guys had more.
2. He’s had microfracture, is he 100% or 90% or 80%?
3. He’s had a year of watching NBA offenses and defensive schemes. It’s a virtual certainty he’s seen more game tapes than any NBA rookie ever.
4. He’s had a year to get used to the life of an NBA player, somewhat.
5. He’s had more NBA coaching than any NBA rookie ever.

All in all, I think the year out will be a plus for him, in the sense that his numbers are likely to be better this year than they would have been last year. I hope to see him match or exceed Howard’s second year 15/12/2 - about what jksnake is saying. I actually expect him to rebound a little better - 13-14 rpg.

If he does 15/12/2, and we have no major injuries to key players, we win 50+, easily.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 23, 2008 2:26 AM PDT reply actions

By the way

great idea for a fan post. I was thinking about doing exactly this. If I weren’t lazy, I’d chase down first year stats for Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Nate Thurmond, etc. You’ve listed what I’d call the first tier centers. It is possible Greg is going to be a second tier center—the kind of guy who will dominate a lot of games, maybe win several championships, but not necessarily destroy the entire league year after year. There have been a few like that.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 23, 2008 2:31 AM PDT reply actions

Perhaps the biggest influence on his numbers...

is that he’ll be joining a team that’s a whole lot better than the teams the others joined. Oden’s team won 41 games and has a solid nucleus. I don’t expect him to have to carry his team statistically in the same way as the other greats who came before him.

Free Joel Freeland! (with the purchase of 1 Wafer)

by LaughingJon on Jul 23, 2008 6:57 AM PDT reply actions

Kareem had Oscar Robertson

It would be hard to argue that he wasn’t in the top 3-4 guards of all time.

Russell had a pretty good team to play on, too. But of course, he wasn’t so much a scorer.

Hakeem had some decent talent on his team, too.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 23, 2008 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions

14 ppg, 11 rpg, 2.8 bpg

+ GO* = ROY + 14 wins = 55 wins & playoffs

= healthy

I want to watch GO & the boys = COINCAST + DEAL

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Jul 23, 2008 1:01 PM PDT reply actions

one stat we are all neglecting

PF/g

Howard had 2.8/game his rookie year. I have a strong feeling if Greg Oden has the participation rate comparable to Howard’s rookie year (32.6 min, 82G/82GS), Oden will have impressive stats and we will be in very very good shape.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Jul 23, 2008 3:01 PM PDT reply actions