Josh Smith to PDX?

by ajinoregon on Jul 20, 2008 11:06 AM PDT Comment 28 comments

Josh Smith is obviously one of the most impressive young talents in the NBA. At just 22 years old, he is already a four year veteran of the NBA with solid playoff experience. The 2005 slam dunk contest winner and defensive specialist at the small forward position would certainly fit in nicely with the Blazers' young athletic group.

According to this article by ESPN's Marc Stein from yesterday, Smith (a restricted free agent) wants out of Atlanta. (The article also talks about the Darius Miles situtation.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=NBA-Notes-080719

The article mentions a sign and trade as a possibility. While it specifically mentions the Mavericks and Josh Howard as the focus of some speculation, I couldn't help thinking that Portland has a lot to offer in the way of trade fodder. (I'm thinking Martell Webster plus Raef's expiring contract, and maybe other assets such as Sergio, Kopponen, or those four 2009 second round draft picks that the Blazers now own.)

I think Smith would fit in perfectly as the starting small forward for the Blazers. A future line-up of Bayless, Roy, Smith, Aldridge, and Oden would have the entire league shaking in their boots (if they aren't already.)

Here is an article from 7/10/08 that talks about how Smith visited with the Clippers after Elton Brand vacated for Philadelphia.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-10-moves-roundup_N.htm?csp=34

I realize this is all rank speculation, but it's fun. I hope KP has an eye on this. Let me know what you think.

Finally, here is the relevant text from the first article in case the link doesn't work:

"Josh Smith's increasing reluctance to return to the Atlanta Hawks has little to do with Mike Woodson, despite repeated media suggestions that Smith is eager to play for a new coach.

Smith and Woodson are fine, one confidante insists. Smith's frustration with the Hawks is the slow-moving state of negotiations, with Smith apparently still waiting for a serious contract proposal nearly three weeks into free agency.

Not that this is a grand surprise given the Hawks' rep for spending or a quandary exclusive to Smith. The only team in the league with salary-cap space to throw at premier restricteds such as Smith, Charlotte's Emeka Okafor and Chicago's Luol Deng is the Memphis Grizzlies, who have no plans to make their money available this summer, preferring to focus on trade possibilities. So the Hawks, Bobcats and Bulls are naturally proceeding slowly and conservatively, figuring that their prized assets have limited leverage.

Which is true. Threatening to sign a one-year qualifying offer that would lead to unrestricted free agency in the summer of 2009 is pretty much the only way Smith can apply pressure on the Hawks now.

Yet I suspect the sign-and-trade chatter will begin to pick up, maybe in all three cases, with Smith said to be especially eager to move on.

I wonder, for example, if my coaching pal who asked me why the Dallas Mavericks aren't trying to assemble a deal that features former ACC player of the year Josh Howard going to Atlanta in some sort of package for Smith isn't onto something."

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Atlanta would want Pryzbilla...

They are already redundant at SF/SG. I wouldn’t want to do a Pryzbilla trade until Oden has shown that he can get heavy minutes. In fact, I don’t want to see Joel go.

Last year, Atlanta had Horford at C. I know that that is not what they would want long term.

If I had my pick on the roster, I’d go for Joe Johnson. What a clutch player. He’s 27 and should play SF, but can’t in Atlanta because of the number of SF’s there. He is actually my dream acquisition (outside of LeBron) at the deadline or next off-season.

Obviously if Johnson was here, Pritchard would have made his choice about Webster and Outlaw. One would be gone. Since Johnson is a better version of Webster, I think that he’d be the one to go. Webster could get a solid backup C to replace Pryzbilla.

by parkinglotj on Jul 20, 2008 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

he bailed on phoenix and isn't a team player

he wants to be the star. I veto.

I want guys who want to win.

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Jul 20, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the problem

was Robert Sarver and not Joe Johnson.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 20, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Pritchard would Trade Outlaw in that case

Because Joe’s another scorer, and if Outlaw isn’t scoring he is completely useless because he doesn’t offer anything else. Webster can at least space the defense.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jul 21, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point well taken

by parkinglotj on Jul 20, 2008 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I respect your opinions

I know that the Phoenix thing didn’t go well. I don’t remember exactly what happened though.
But I’ve never heard that he isn’t a team player. A big time scorer doesn’t make one a bad team player. I assume that you have seen him play more than I have and will take your opinion and look into it.

6 months ago I brought up Redd and was told he was a bad teammate. The poster who corrected me gave a source that proved his point. Redd can be a cancer as a teammate. I know that now.

Do you have a vet that KP will go after? I have looked and looked. I think that any vet will be under 28 and will be a SF. I am keeping in mind that I haven’t seen Blayless or Rudy worked into the game plan. If one…or both…don’t show anything, then I’d change my mind at SG or PG.

by parkinglotj on Jul 20, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My list topper (outside of LBJ)......

is Danny Granger. He would fit like a glove for our starting SF.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Jul 20, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is the only pacer that hasn't been in trouble with the law and

he is their best player. I would love to have Granger though. He shoots over 40% from 3 pt. to go with his strong all-around game.

by tweener on Jul 20, 2008 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No to Josh Smith

Because he’s too expensive and not a shooter

by kickbrass on Jul 20, 2008 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

we need some outside shooting

Without James Jones, Martell is our next best shooter, and the only real shooter in the bunch. Jarrett Jack was probably the next barely serviceable shooter, and he’s gone too. Unless we want LMA hoisting up 4 or 5 a game.

I mean, really… Steve Blake can punish a poor defensive rotation, but he can’t hit one in a guys face. Websters the only guy on our team that I would trust to try… maybe Roy in crunch time, or maybe Outlaw if the clock is less than 5 seconds, but that’s it.

M, period. Fresh, comma.

by manzell on Jul 20, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sign and trade

with Raef’s expiring contract doesn’t make any sense because Josh Smith is not under contract with them anyway, so it would only be selling them snake oil. I can’t really see him being a good fit, as I think that we need a shooter to spread the floor, also he doesn’t fit the team culture as he is not supposed to be a good worker with/ a sprinkle of head case. Portland would probably have to give up a member of he big 3 to get him anyway making this is all null.

by TFan on Jul 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting Comments

Some good points have been made here.

parkinglotj – You may be right about the Hawks not wanting another SF or SG. My thinking was if they have a guy who wants off their team, maybe they would be interested in a different young, good shooting, High Character player to replace their guy. Also, I would be willing to throw in Channing Frye (whose size and ability they might like.)

Joe Johnson would be nice, but I don’t think He’s a possibility right now.

kickbrass – I will admit that I was thinking Smith was a better three point shooter than he is (only about 26%.) I thought I saw him hit some big threes in the playoffs. Maybe I got him mixed up with Joe Johnson in that regard. But Smith is a decent shooter from the field (46%).

To me alot of this is about defense. He is one of the best young defenders in the league. In addition to being long and athletic, and running the floor well, he is one of the top shot blockers in the league. Can you imagine how many shots the Blazers would block with a front line of Oden-Aldridge-Smith?

TFan – I’m not following your statement about a sign and trade not working with Raef’s expiring contract. You say “Josh Smith is not under contract with them anyway…” Isn’t that the point of a sign and trade? Atlanta signs him to a contract, and we trade for him and that contract. What am I missing here? Raef’s expiring contract would provide them cap-room in the very near future. (Which they will need to retain Horford, and Joe Johnson.)

by ajinoregon on Jul 20, 2008 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see the issue

josh smith is not under contract with them, so giving them Raef does not give them cap space, it only TAKES UP cap space for a year. The suggested trade would in essence only be trading Martell and change for Smith. I’m no general manager, but…...

by TFan on Jul 20, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

salary

It matters how much salary Smith would be demanding (and equally if we’d be willing to pay him that much) but are not in a position to sign him to an offer sheet because we don’t have cap space this summer. If Smith wanted a bigger contract than Martell’s current salary, than we would need to throw in cap filler and RLEC is the best option for that.

For the record, I’m not so sure about Smith for us. At the 3, we need an efficient shooter (especially 3pt%), good passer, high quality perimeter defender and decent rebounder. Shot blocking, inside game, slashing ability and go-to scorer ability are all pluses and I think some of these are some of Smith’s top strengths.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Jul 20, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

the problem is still that this trade, for the Hawks, is akin to the Blazers trading one of the big 3 for Childress and a draft pick. They don’t get cap room, they get Martell. While the large expiring contract is nice, they are not really getting anything that would get them to pick up the phone. It would take a very long list of Blazers young talent (read: Bayless, Travis and/or Martell, along with Frye or some draft picks) along with whatever contracts you need to make the numbers work, possibly Raef, to get anyone talking. Additionally teams that are on the receiving end of the larger amount of players on 2 (or in this case more) for 1 trades are ones that are getting old and realized that their window is closing, such as the NY Nets. The Hawks are happy with where they are in their rebuilding process. I have read Johnathian Giovany (or whatever his name is) of Draftexpress say that he thinks that Smith would be a great fit in Portland, but I don’t see it, at least unless Roy, Lamarcus, Martell and the new combo guards are able to spread the floor.

by TFan on Jul 20, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atlanta would do a sign and trade for less talent

because otherwise they won’t get anything for him. They would basically pay Raef’s expiring contract for the rights to martell or whoever we trade. It is not comparable to our Big 3 because all our guys want to stay in Portland.

Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard

by Kelsoballa on Jul 21, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice post

you might want to search the archives before posting as Josh Smith seems to be one of the players that is often talked about in fanposts. Not trying to be a jerk, but I agree with Dave that reposting material leads to redundancy that might bog down good discussion.

Also, I would say that Josh Smith is not really a good defender as much as he is a good weak side shot blocker and lane overplayer. I think stats like blocks and steals often get confused with staying in front of your man or keeping them from getting good post position, which are things that are hard to get from the stat line and really make a player a good defender.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 20, 2008 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

its not classic

but any one who dosent think that the line up that you stated wouldnt work is crazy!! the NBA is about evolution and adapting.. who would you double team to force the “shooter” to be forced into play..who would you double team??.. look to don nelson for further reference.. you dont always have to do what the jones do to be successful..just sayin…nice post

if it can be conceived it can be achieved

by lyfefindsaway on Jul 20, 2008 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Reasonable, but..

I think we all saw how much this team struggled without a real three-point shooter last year.

Pretty much, there are only a few offensive plays in basketball:

Fast Break – we were one of the worst fast-break teams in the NBA.
Jump Shot – If we weren’t beating the rotation, our outside shooting was atrocious. Without a real 3pt threat, it was difficult to beat the rotation.
Drive The Lane – Only J Jack and frequently Roy would drive to the hoop.
Dump it in – Aldridge was average at best as a post up player. He was way better cutting to the hole or mid-range jump shooting.

Fast break figures to be better, if only due to regression to the mean, and improved defensive rebouding with Oden.
Jump Shooting – we lost Jack, a serviceable shooter, and Jones, an excellent shooter and a bonafide threat. We’ll prob get worse, unless Webster really breaks out. Double teams on Oden could be a big difference.
Driving – We lost J Jack, our most reliable take-it-to-the-rack guy, but we added Bayless. Maybe a wash, if we factor in improvement from Roy. Maybe.
Dump it in – we sucked at this last year. We have Oden now. If Koponen and Frye can work together, we’ll likely emerge as a post-heavy offense.

M, period. Fresh, comma.

by manzell on Jul 20, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know we all know

that outside shooting is a must..but im just saying brandon can shoot some and so can bayless..wasnt one of brandons off season goals 3pt shooting??

if it can be conceived it can be achieved

by lyfefindsaway on Jul 20, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

the pick and roll and it’s cousin the pick and pop

Mortimer: "It’ll be so nice I’ll need microfracture—ON MY WEINER."

by 92wastheyear on Jul 20, 2008 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pick and roll

That will be our offense this year. We are most classically built that most people think. Watch SAS.

Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student

by rmcdougall on Jul 20, 2008 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

When you have Greg Oden and LA controlling the paint

you can allow your wings to over-play the lanes a bit and to put more pressure on the pass. You can even front players without having to worry as much about back door cuts and alley-oops.

That being said I would not let Marty go as we will need his shooting. I would consider #25 in a trade for Smith but would be more inclined to stand pat.

Now, If we can get Prince for #25, RLEC, Sergio, Diogu or Frye (whichever it takes to seal the deal) and Future 2nd round picks I would do that. Too much you say? It is going to take ‘too much’ to get Prince. Even doing this 3 for 1 we have TEN players in the rotation. And flexibility galore! Is there a more talented, deep or flexibile lineup than this in the league? Our 2nd unit would bounce a lot of teams.

Lineup-

10 Player Rotation

PG Blake, Bayless
SG Roy, Fernandez
SF-Prince, Marty
PF-Aldridge, Frye or Diogu (whichever one we still have)
C- Oden, Pryzbilla

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Jul 20, 2008 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Another Recent Article - Just for you Jonestr

Here is another article from just five days ago that reinforces the possibility of a sign and trade to Portland. (Not saying it’s gonna happen…) But if Smith wants out of Atlanta his options have become fewer lately:

http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/15/camby_0716.html

Jonestr – As for “reposting material” the last post about the possibility of Josh Smith in a Blazers uniform was on July 8, almost two weeks ago. And it did not include any article. The ESPN article I posted earlier today was written yesterday. Things change daily, and in any case I don’t see any problem with ongoing discussions. How many posts have there been on Jared Bayless?

Even if I had checked the archives as you suggest, I would still have posted this. I want as much discussion of this as possible, because I would love to see it happen.

by ajinoregon on Jul 20, 2008 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I have no read

On Smith as a team mate but I have seen him play and he can sure play D and also seems to have a pretty complete game

by southern oregon on Jul 20, 2008 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Cap Space

TFan – Raef’s contract is EXPIRING. He only has one more year on his deal, so they would only be taking on additional cap-space for a very short period of time. The large contract also helps the deal match up in terms of salaries. The fact that his contract is expiring is what makes it a comodity. Haven’t you heard all the talk about the Blazers possibly trading this expiring contract as part of a deal for a veteran?

Finally, the fact that Josh Smith is a restricted free agent has nothing to do with Atlanta gaining additional cap space from this expiring contract.

by ajinoregon on Jul 20, 2008 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yes

I have heard about the blazers trading raef for veterans. Trust me, I understand the logic. Possibly the most prominent example of this concept was Baron Davis being traded to the Warriors by the Hornets for an expiring contract (Dale Davis’s enormous contract, which was originally came from Paul Allen’s $$$). The thing is Smith is not under a contract for them right now. So it does not get them cap space it only facilitates a deal that you are offering that is not very good. You are offering a below average starting small forward (which they already have in Childress) for the best player on the Hawks. Yes they would still have cap room, but they will already have a ton of cap room almost no matter what they do (check http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/team/Hawks/). If you are going to suggest trades for the best player on a different team, I would think it reasonable for you to include one of the best 3 players on the Blazers, not additional cap room and a player with potential. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge advocate of keeping Webster, but I think he would be gone in half a heartbeat if the Hawks phoned proposing this deal. After all, he is just a year away from being a throw in in the Zach Randolph trade.

by TFan on Jul 20, 2008 10:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It would be interesting but complicated due to BYC

After Smith signs a new big contract leading up to a sign&trade. It can still be done, but it’s more difficult to make the salaries match, maybe even needing to involve a third team with cap space to unload players (e.g. Memphis). We might also have to take on a bad contract from ATL, e.g. the perpetually hurt “Speedy” Claxton for roughly eleven million over the next two years. Not exactly the kind of veteran we need, though he wouldn’t disturb much.

My #1 SF target would still be Danny Granger, too. But Smith of course has tons of talent to become a top 30 player in the NBA and would be a great explosive addition -especially on defense, try scoring consistently against GO + LMA with Smith as a weak-side helper - even though his shot and character still seem inconsistent. Nonetheless, now that his free-agency market has dried up a lot, several teams without cap space will make s&t offers to Atlanta. And they will have to listen if they can get value out of a deal.

Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Jul 21, 2008 9:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs