Rebounding

by LMA on Jul 2, 2008 12:25 AM PDT Comment 24 comments

Long time Bedger, first time lead poster. Just curious about what other fans think about the Blazers frontcourt stocks. Alot has been said about filling a need at 1 and 3, but as it is I think we are ridiculously deep in the backcourt and small forward positions.

Which brings me to thinking about our centers and power forwards. I remember not too long ago the Blazers were considered a strong rebounding team, but over the last couple of seasons this strength has become a major weakness.

I know Oden will be a monster on the boards, but the guy is coming off major microfracture surgery, which many experts estimate takes a good 18 months to fully recover from, so his explosiveness will probably return mid-season or next season. Joel is a great rebounder but he will see less minutes playing backup to GO, and both players will never be on the court at the same time. LaMarcus and Channing are hardly what you'd consider bangers in the post, both guys are finesse PFs with great length and range. Diogu is an unknown. And finally Outlaw, for all his athleticism, is by no stretch a bread and butter rebounder.

Rebounding for mind is an innate skill, you either have it or you don't. Players can improve on it with work on their technique and attitude, but not improve by very much. As such I don't see LMA or Channing improving in this area a great deal, so I was hoping that the Blazers would have kept Joey Dorsey, or pick up another PF through trade or FA.

I'd like a low post presence with a bit of attitude and menace. It seems like we have a team of nice guys, and with Jarret Jack being our default "enforcer" last season, you'd have to think we have a glaring need for a bruising intimidating big guy. No players not named Shaq have ever fit that description in their rookie year, but I think GO will become that type of player... just not anytime soon. To help his development, he needs help down low now.

Which frontcourt bangers can you see the Blazers picking up? Should we be looking for a role player or an All-Star Elton Brand type player?

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aldridge can board

I think LMA showed he could bang in certain games last year (usually had great rebounding games right after a terrible one) and if he could just get a little more consistancy down there he is enough to compliment oden.

Greatness + Greatness = Great Greatness

by noam16 on Jul 2, 2008 12:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Aldridge is an ok rebounder

nothing more.

He doesn’t rebound out of his area.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 2, 2008 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Roy? Webster?

Aldridge and our Centers seem reasonably proficient. They’ll get their boards. I think the mark of a good rebounding team is how the SG and SF rebound. Roy seems to do pretty well in that category, but I don’t think Webster rebounded too well statistically.

Being on the East coast, I don’t get to watch too many games, so this could be a function of his playing on the exterior of the defense, but I think it’s worth asking about.

Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student

by rmcdougall on Jul 2, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

82games.com shows relative strength of rebounding.

Przybilla was a dominant rebounder, second only to Dwight Howard. Can Oden match or exceed that in his rookie season? Roy was the only other clearly strong rebounder for his position.

Frye was a decent rebounder. Aldridge was below average, though that’s not as big as some people like to make it. He was as good as Rasheed in rebounding, and no one seems to harp on Rasheed’s rebounding.

Outlaw was pretty bad at rebounding for a PF. Webster was below average, and Blake and Sergio were both average for PGs at rebounding.

When Przybilla was in the game, we were fine at rebounding. We only sucked at rebounding when we used Outlaw at PF.

by poster on Jul 2, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frye actually had pretty good numbers as well

And you are right about Outlaw. He’s not a very good rebounder for SF, either, but he’s really bad for PF.

Oden/LMA/Martell—that’s a very good rebounding front line, add in Roy and we’re in good shape.

Pryz/Frye/Travis—that’s a very good rebounding front line for your second team. Not great if they were your starters, but very good for a second team.

We’ll be in the top ten teams in rebounding margin this year.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 2, 2008 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

you mentioned Frye, and how I missed it completely, I don’t know. Well, I suppose I do know, but the future ruler of the world doesn’t want to admit he’s stupid.

Other people don’t have as much practice at being stupid as I do.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 2, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong about micro

Greg had a minor microfracture surgery, his prognosis for full recovery was around 6-8 months if I remember right. He’s perfectly fine. His athleticism and explosiveness should be back by training camp.

Secondly, LMA averaged close to 8 boards a game, respectable for a sophomore. He may never average 20 and 10 with Oden, but he has the potential. I think Oden will get 10 boards a game as a rookie, and I don’t think that’s really a stretch.

Jarret Jack was our enforcer last season? What?

Adding an Elton Brand wouldn’t aid Oden’s development because they are very similiar and would clog up space on offense. I have no idea where you are coming from on this. LMA is the perfect frontcourt partner to Oden because he has that versatile mid range game that will space the floor and prevent double teams against Oden.

A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!

by Dheepan on Jul 2, 2008 12:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Minor?

I thought it was major, but in either event I think his full explosiveness won’t be there for Summer League or regular season tip-off. But its great to hear that he’s been an animal at rehab and doing everything the doctors ordered (except for that one unsanctioned appearance on the court).

I agree 8 boards a game is exceptional for a PF, but LMA was far from consistent last season. He’ll only improve, but I think he needs to add more mass to his frame to hold his own in the post on both ends of the floor.

I guess the point I’m making with picking up another banger is that Frye as a backup 4 basically replicates the skill set that LMA has – a face up scorer with range, length on D, with solid yet inconsistent rebounding. But both players hardly intimidate – yet.

It would be good to get a true back to the basket scorer, or at least a bruising defender who will crash the boards. To get both in the one player would be Brandesque, and maybe too expensive for us.

Jarret as an enforcer…. ok maybe not so much an enforcer, but when the rough stuff happened on court, it would be Jack who would stand up and get in the other player’s grill. He was feisty and hard-nosed, which Joel can be at times, but then he’ll be on the bench quite alot for the coming season.

I think that too many people are assuming that Oden will be doing 20-10 from game 1 through to 82, but I think thats unrealistic. I don’t think he’ll be that much of an offensive threat that people make out he’ll be… down the road maybe, as I don’t see any other centers in recent draft classes that come anywhere near his potential.

So for now, I just think we overestimate his impact in what will effectively be his rookie year.

by LMA on Jul 2, 2008 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think many people are giving Greg enough credit.

His impact will be huge. I can appreciate people not wanting to get their hopes up about Greg but I agree with Dheepan. Greg should get at least 10 rebounds a game. Joel averaged 8 in 24 minutes a game. Greg should be able to do that much and more. Oden will be our next ROY.

by TallTimber on Jul 2, 2008 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Painful Memories & I Majorly disagree

We complained and analyzed Portland’s poor rebounding last year till I tired of it about 1/2 way through the season and focused on other poor areas like pick and no roll and poor fast breaks “that was ugly” Mike Rice on a Portland ‘fast’ break. I’d like to let the guys play some games before I start picking on them again.

I majorly disagree that rebounding is a ‘inate skill’. Like all skills it is learned. What is innate is talent which for rebounding case is athleticism, jumping strength, timing all of which can be enhanced by a good work ethic. But a great athlete is not innately a good rebounder and poor athletes can be good rebounder because it more than any other basketball skill is greatly influenced by the players mind-set: attitude during the game and attitude toward training during practice.

That the blazers are not lacking in athleticism and coaching gives me reason to believe the current roster can become a good rebounding team but the skill has to be taken seriously. As seriously as a sg takes shooting or pg takes passing. Much of what was lacking last year was simply fundamental: Getting in position and blocking out.

by mrwonderfulone on Jul 2, 2008 12:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Attitude and hard work

Along with working on a team concept with rebounding (boxing out) will go a long way to making the Blazers a better rebounding team. Like I said, rebounding can be improved on… I just don’t think a player’s rebounding ability can be improved by very much by the timer they’re 2 or 3 years in the league. Apart from being given more minutes, I can’t remember any NBA players improving leaps and bounds in that department. And if there are, they’d be the exception, and not the norm.

by LMA on Jul 2, 2008 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

rebounding

isnt rudy a solid rebounding guard? same with JB?

by PippenAintEasy on Jul 2, 2008 2:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

rebounding is supposedly...

... a major weakness for JB. Not sure about Rudy.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 2, 2008 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My best guess

From looking at his build is that he will be a pretty weak rebounder. He may get better but he’s a pretty small dude right now.

And yeah JB is a crappy rebounder, he has T-Rex arms remember?

by Dheepan on Jul 2, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

does anybody know his wingspan

or the site I need to go to to get it and compare wit with other gaurds his hight? link?

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jul 4, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easily Corrected.

The team is a work in progress. Each year they’ve added talent and new players, and each year, they’ve had to revise the basic system to accomodate those players. Portland w/Oden will be a different team than Portland w/Pryz. Portland w/Bayless and Fernandez will be a different team than Portland w/Jack and Sergio. The system has an impact on all the elements of the game, including rebounding. And, it’s not yet a finished product. There’s a reason Pritch kept his cap space for next summer. Look at the market right now. You can get the Elton Brand, Artest, Josh Howard, Barron Davis’s, Maggette types for $13 million to $20 million. And Portland has the cap space to do that next summer. That means Pritch can add not just a good player, but an elite player. Iverson sits at $24 million a year, as do the other elite players. If rebounding is still a problem, then we will be one of the two or three major players next summer with the cap space we have. KP plans ahead. You know very well that he knows every player in the market, their price, and the condition of the teams that they play for. He already has a short list. That’s the way he operates.

Right now, he’s going to study the guards, SF’s, and action in the paint. If he’s not satisfied with any one of these, then, he can and will use that cap space and the trading pieces he already has and will have at the position he wants to improve to grab an elite player.

by Eben Calder on Jul 2, 2008 6:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rebounding is the one area that needs to be shored up for the Blazers, but Oden will go a long ways towards correcting that aspect. Same with fast break opportunities. Having someone in the middle with paws like his corrects both problems. Joel is terrific at getting his hands on rebounds, but his hands appear to be slightly smaller, which allows for numerous balls to be slapped, tipped, or juggled out of bounds, often by members of his own team.

The Vanilla Gorilla, Joel Przybilla!

by Drexler's Stache on Jul 2, 2008 9:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wish we would have kept Joey Dorsey

he would have been a perfect fit as the energy, hustle guy for our team. I feel like he could have contributed a lot more than Batum ever will

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Jul 2, 2008 12:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Diogu

I think Ike can do anything Dorsey could have. Batum is a low risk high reward guy who won’t be expected to contribute for 2-3 years.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 2, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No surprise

that Oden’s dog wanted to keep Dorsey. Greg has fond memories of Dorsey.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 2, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was "minor" microfracture surgery

Though I don’t think Oden and Przybilla on the court at the same time is likely anytime soon, I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw it occasionly for short stretches as the season progresses. Afterall, when I play NBA 2k8 they are terrific together, and who’s gonna question that huh?

by noaher on Jul 2, 2008 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Stop talking trades

Why does everyone keep talking trades. There is specific reason why KP will not move pieces until the deadline. This team is stacked and no one knows how they will play togethter. Rebounding will come along. LMA/GO and Frye/Pryz will keep consistency in the lineup and will allow both units to know exactly what to expect from the front court during each game. Diagu may turn into that bruiser you can throw in for a few minutes to change the pace a bit if idiots like Odom get in someone’s face without a confrontation. This team rocks. Stop talking trades!!!! Where are the loyal blazer fans. Ripcity is back and has been back!!!!!!!!

by keepfryealive on Jul 2, 2008 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs