recent Miles "comeback" article...
More teams are taking a look at Darius. Sounds like his body still has the hops...it starting to look like "career ending"..may have meant his career at Portland..and not elsewhere...... Evidently he wants to be on a playoff team..but who doesn't? This is my first post and I didn't want to be wordy, but I needed 75 words. Go Blazers! Go Blazers!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/07/17/miles/index.html?eref=si_nba
5 recs |
200 comments
Comments
Badly mismanaged
I do not understand how the Miles situation could have been so badly mismanaged. If he is even CLOSE to basketball shape, then we had no business trying to get a medical retirement for him, when all we needed to do was see if he could still play, and then trade him as an EXPIRING CONTRACT next summer, when we are looking to clear cap spcae anyway. He would have been a piece. If he hurt himself badly in his return this year, then he could have become a medical retirement at that point, and we would still be fine for summer. This is the only situation where we don’t get the benefit of his possible trade value, and also have the risk of his salary not coming off the books. As I understand it, if we had medically retired him at the end of the COMING season, next summer we would be free to spend his salary regardless of whether he later came back. Now, we risk losing it for next summer if he returns in 2008-2009.
If he plays eleven games this season for a team, there is a lot of explaining to do on the Blazer’s side.
On the other hand, If this is just his agent trying to drum up interest, he’s doing a masterful job!
by blazer91 on Jul 17, 2008 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well
worst case scenario, we pay out the rest of his contract and we’ll still have cap space when it expires. I’m not a big fan of trading expiring contracts (like RLEC); I’d rather let the contract expire and use the space to resign our core.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jul 17, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bit too early
in this story to start claiming that Portland badly mismanaged this. Let’s see Miles signed and walking onto the court in a regular season game first.
As snake says, the Blazer’s really didn’t have anything to lose and much to gain. If nothing else, they have freed up a roster spot, which they won’t lose even if Miles does come back.
by timg56 on Jul 17, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I mean, who would have taken Darius otherwise? Where would we have had space?
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
by ratbastird on Jul 17, 2008 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever occured to you that maybe Bkazers management knew more
about the situation than they’ve said publicly?
Miles hasn’t done anything yet except work out for teams. You know who else worked out for teams? A thousand guys who are going to be in Europe or on some farm team in Iowa next season.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 18, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more I read, the more I wonder...
How could a league doctor, approved by both the Blazers and the Players’ Union, have signed off on a medical retirement designation? It’s getting to the point of ridiculous in my mind. With it being a “no brainer” that he is playing with a team this next season, how does our man with the brain (KP) push for this, realizing that Miles is not that far away from making a comeback. Three and half months to go from medical retirement into impressing other GMs. Granted he is not likely playing 5-on-5, full court but still. Ultimately, this won’t hurt anyone aside from Paul Allen’s bulging wallet and maybe put a chink in KP’s war room armor. Darius still has this year and next on the books with the ‘Zers, so I doubt anyone would take him for the expiring contract, especially with the uncertainty of the recovery.
I am actually happy for Miles. If he does make it back, more power to him.
by PtownJake on Jul 17, 2008 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Getting him medically retired cleared a roster spot
If they got the cap space that was a bonus. If the don’t retire him, he’s sucking up roster slot number 15 right now.
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't they just have given him a buyout instead?
The medical retirement route allowed them to open up the roster spot AND save money as the insurance pays D. Miles the value of the contract and not Paul Allen
by tingeyga on Jul 17, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not claim it as a "no-brainer"
that Miles will be signed and playing this coming season. Just because some numbnut on one team’s staff says that he rated Darius’ performance as an 8 out of 10 doesn’t mean he’s a sure bet to make an NBA roster. Talk is cheap. And a 90 minute workout does not a 10 – 20 minute per game player make. The fact Miles can leap and touch the top of the square does not necessarily mean his knee can take the pounding of playing regular minutes.
by timg56 on Jul 17, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darius just wants his son to see him play in the NBA
At least there’s a chance that will happen. My kids would be happy just to see me cash a check from the NBA.
"I woke up this morning, Barbosa and eggs in my bed." --BlueBooYay
by MiledAnimal on Jul 17, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two quotes I'd like to comment on
Miles:
“I don’t have a [criminal] record. I don’t do anything out of the ordinary. I never had problems with my teammates. It’s crazy how you get labeled.’‘
There are dozens of things I could mention that could be reasons why he was lebeled negatively. He knows that only the people inPortland really remember those instances so he’s just playing the innocent card here to the rest of the nation.
IT:
“Should Miles play 10 games and reinjure the knee, the Blazers could apply for a reinstatement of the career-ending exception and retrieve the $9 million in cap space.”
That’s new info to me. Good new info because that is a real possibility.
Over all, that was a terribly biased article, albeit understandable. I can understand the media pulling for a guy like this to create the sort of Allen-Iverson-type story. I guess you just have to live in the Portland area to know what Miles is really about.
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
by Kelsoballa on Jul 17, 2008 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm still in the camp
I still believe that Miles has received somewhat of a bad rap, simpy because he was here during the Jail Blazers era. The only thing he really ever did was get into an argument with Mo. What else did he do? He’s been rumored to be at a club where a shooting happened, but he wasn’t involved, just there. What else did he do. People say he quit, but he had a major injury and couldn’t play. He would sometimes float out there, but he’s hardly alone amongst NBA players guilty of that offense.
I don’t know, I’m glad he’s gone, but I feel his mistakes have been magnified beyond reality.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
miles was strait awful man
and for all yall who said we didnt have a plan or some thing our plan was to just keep on takin him through the mcyds drive thru all the time “yo, darius, you like the sausage mcgriddle or the bacon one?” “know what KP? I’ll take both.”
by Birdrights on Jul 17, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"The only thing he ever did ...
. . . was get into an argument with Mo. “
Maurice Cheeks, ex-player, desperately wanted to be one of the “guys” in the locker room; he really wanted to be liked and respected. So that made him afraid to criticize his players to their faces—they might stop liking him if he did.
So Mo opened a back-door way to criticize his players: he gave John Canzano special access, and insider information, information that even the Oregonian’s beat writers could not get, and in return John Canzano carried Mo’s water for him, calling out the players in print. Cheeks was a gold-plated meal ticket for Canzano.
So Darius Miles called out Cheeks in a practice session, with all the other players present, and the world watching. Miles pointed out that the emperor has no clothes, but he used more colorful language to get the point across. From that moment, Cheeks was dead meat to all the players on the team, and was dead man walking in the Blazers organization. Canzano’s meal ticket had a ticket out of town.
Canzano was determined to get revenge. Every column had a dig at Miles. Several columns were nothing but a dig at Miles. Miles, in Canzano’s columns, became worse than the worst person in the world. There was no subject that Canzano wrote about that could not be twisted to throw an insult Miles’s way. Canzano chewed it and chewed it and chewed it to death, then picked it up and chewed it some more. Miles may have been a bad person, may be a bad person still, but nobody, ever, not Isaiah Rider, not Bonzi Wells, nobody, ever was half as bad as Canzano made Miles out to be.
“The only thing Miles ever did” was pull the curtain back on John Canzano’s inside source, and he paid dearly for it.
by monkeysuncle on Jul 18, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting perspective
Why should we believe it? Do you have any evidence for this?
by MavetheGreat on Jul 18, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for monkeysuncle...
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on Jul 19, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biased?
I didn’t feel like the article was biased. If so, for whom? The author stated some facts about who Darius has been working out for, described that no one has ever done it before, and then shared several reasons why GMs might be hesitant with Miles.
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah maybe you're right
but he is given the benefit of the doubt here, which he probably should be. I’m just still a little bitter. I would be happy for him if he made a complete come back though.
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
by Kelsoballa on Jul 17, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he's trying to generate buzz for the production of a Lifetime feature film on his life and struggles.
WWSBD?
by nightbluefruit on Jul 17, 2008 12:19 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
NBFinHawii?
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its easy to forget that he is only 26
he still has a lot of basketball years left. the biggest thing hurting him right now is that 10 game suspension
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Jul 17, 2008 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Man the big thing hurtin him right now is he cant ball. Plus a giant froze up barbie knee that cant bend without little metal wires pokin out.
by Birdrights on Jul 17, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if he used some sort of performance enhancing drug after the designation...
that would explain alot. These drugs are more often tailored to aiding recovery than anything else.
I would think that that would be a pretty plausible explanation as to what happened. The real question is will anybody take a chance on him after what he has gotten away with in Portland.
by khryse22 on Jul 17, 2008 12:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well we did use to pay his fines for him and we did fire a coach cuz darius was like, you know I’m not feelin this guy
by Birdrights on Jul 17, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mo was getting fired
because he wasn’t a very good coach yet. We didn’t fire him because of Miles
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need to let it go
I understand trying to be under the salary cap. His knee is shot (proven independently), he has to serve that 10 game suspension, and then play in 10 games to come back on the Blazers books. Considering his history, that would be a stretch. Regardless of what happens, we have an owner that is willing and capable of paying all of the extras if we go over the cap. In all actuality, we have an owner that is capable of paying the salary of every single NBA player…out of his pocket. Honestly I do not think it is a big concern for the Blazers whether he comes back or not…more of an annoying nuisance like he always has been.
Questions that need answers:
What does 10 games mean?
Is there a minimum amount of minutes he must be in the game to constitute playing in one game?
Can he stand at the key for one free throw for 10 games for it to be considered?
by clonigro on Jul 17, 2008 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No minimum on minutes, as I understand it.
He needs to enter the game… but it seems like I’ve seen wierd substitutions before where a player came in and went out with literally zero time coming off the clock. I don’t know how that would work.
Would someone really be willing to pay him a years’ salary just to have him check in and then out of a game… just to stick it to the Blazers? Is Miles bitter enough to accept this role?
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 17, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it
to both. However I think that scenario is far less likely than Miles just signing and actually playing for someon.
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to lose
Other teams wouldn’t have to worry about his salary…it would be put back on our books, not theirs. It’s rent a player for free and screw the Blazers…all in one shot.
Can I buy you a fish sandwich?
by silkybrown on Jul 19, 2008 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have to pay the salary for which they sign him
guaranteed for a year.
And give up a roster spot that they could use on a promising young player, or a player who could actually, you know, help them win, rather than just a player who would offend their fanbase, too.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 19, 2008 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles wouldn't have to be bitter
Would you go to 10 NBA games, suit up, watch from the sideline and every once in a while leave your seat to walk to the middle of the court for $18M? I don’t think that that would be any team’s intention, but if someone offers him a spot, he’s gonna take it no matter the role.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For $18M?
He’s going to be paid his Blazers’ salary, whether he suits up or not. The only money he gets for suiting up is what a team is willing to pay him, and it sure isn’t going to be very much. It will be the veteran’s minimum.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about this idea...
Could Miles have been angling for the medical retirement? I mean, I’m guessing they didn’t check his knee out with a scope to make sure it was ok… maybe he exaggerated the symptoms to get out of Portland with all his $$$, now he figures he can play somewhere else AND stack some more money on with two contracts at once.
I’m not suggesting I think this happened, but could be possible I suppose. If that was the case, tho, it’d sure make Portland look like the bad guys.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he that smart?
I don’t know. Great thinking on his part, if so….....and very likely.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't think it's that likely
But I don’t think you’d have to be brilliant to think of it in his shoes. Or a friend could have suggested it… “Hey, if you get medical retirement, you can get the hell out of Portland where they hate you now and make even more money somewhere else at the same time.”
Really, to pull that off you’d just have to do a little acting (oooh, bad limp, and ow, that hurts) and have a poor moral compass.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
Didn’t he get a perfect score on the SAT?
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Batuuuuuuuum!
by rockingharder on Jul 17, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn that movie had scarlett in it? now I have to see it!
by Birdrights on Jul 17, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily his thinking...Jeff Wechsler anyone?
by PtownJake on Jul 17, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Could be the influence of a shady agent (of course I have no idea if Jeff is shady). An opportunity to move his player to a less hostile environment and “reinvent” Darius, all while padding the bank account.
If Miles somehow manages a miraculous recovery and makes it onto a roster, gotta wonder how the Blazers organization AND an independent doctor concluded he was done for good just a few months back. It’s possible Miles helped them reach that conclusion.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This could all make sense
A lot of sense. I would be kind of upset if I was Miles, trying for over a year to get back and finally getting to the point where he could say “I’m healthy, put me in” while the team is angling for medical retirement. If that was my situation and the option was presented to me, I could easily see myself saying “they want it, they got it”. You my think it’s a poor moral compass, but if he thinks he was being treated unfairly (and being that nearly every NBA player thinks they are about 3 times as good as they are, I can see him thinking that), then he could see it as righting an unjust wrong, and I doubt many of you would see it differently from his perspective.
Who knows if this is really what happened, but if he did fake it would make a lot of sense from his perspective. Of course he would be gambling on the fact that he thinks he is good enough to get signed by another team. 3 months after the retirement and he is showing a lot makes me wonder.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm, no
I don’t care how smart Darius is or how good an actor he is (isn’t). It’s more than exaggerating symptons—he’d have to fake several MRIs seen by several doctors.
by Corvid on Jul 17, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Does this damage show up on MRIs?
I had microfracture in January, and it was a total surprise. I expected meniscus repair, and it turned out I had cartilage damage that DIDN’T show up on an MRI. Same goes for Oden as far as we’re told, the scans didn’t show any damage before they went in for a scope, and he woke up with microfracture.
Unless they scoped his knee to check out the progress, I don’t think they can directly view the condition of the cartilage.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I remember it
Oden’s summer MRI showed something that wasn’t there in his “pristine” pre-draft MRI. That’s why they scheduled the scope in the first place.
by Corvid on Jul 17, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, the way I remember it
Is that he had knee pain but nothing showed up in the MRI so they decided to “explore”.
It’s not at all uncommon for people to go in for meniscus surgery and wake up with microfracture. I wasn’t aware of it beforehand, but I searched around during my (ongoing) recovery. The meniscus damage DOES show up on the MRI so is assumed to be the culprit, but the cartilage damage is either harder to spot or doesn’t show up at all, and is addressed while the victim, err patient, is under. The additional microfracture surgery itself is pretty easy for the doc. The recovery sucks butt.
But Oden didn’t have any signs of meniscus damage, so they decided to scope around in there and see what’s causing the ruckus, IIRC.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Here’s a good linky for you, courtesy of Mr. Abbott.
by Corvid on Jul 17, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(and that's what I get for being lazy)
I figured my memory might be failing me as I wrote that last post.
I’m still not confident that MRIs will always provide clear indicators of the condition of the cartilage. As I mentioned earlier, it’s pretty common for people to go under the knife for knee damage that has shown up on an MRI, such as a meniscus tear, only for the doc to also discover cartilage damage that wasn’t clear on the MRI.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to sign a one year deal....
...it has something to do with being on consecutive 10-day contracts, which is what he would need to be on in. That is why the suspension was 10 days. It essentially means an owner is going to need to commit to him for one year.
All he would need to do would be to be recorded for 1 sec and it would count for a game.
by khryse22 on Jul 17, 2008 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
10 game suspension.
Not 10 days. Big difference. Between that and the 10-games played, that would be close to 1 month – hence, as you pointed out, a one-year deal.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 17, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
medical retirement...
... was a no lose situation for the Blazers. Even if Miles plays, we don’t pay more than we would have and we severed ties with Miles, who had no future with this team.
I agree that the most confusing part is how the doctor could have called the injury career ending and he’s back on his feet so quickly.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jul 17, 2008 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed- this was all about the roster spot and getting him away from the kids
cap space was a bonus.
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, not exactly
We could have just waived him and got the roster spot.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but that meant the team would absolutely have had to pay his salary and not clear
cap sapce, this at least meant it was covered by insurance with a chance to clear the cap space.
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
but that’s why I’m saying it wasn’t about the roster spot. We could get that anytime by waiving him. It wasn’t about money, either, the insurance covered that whether he took retirement or not, unless he actually played.
The retirement was about cap space. End of story.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not out of the question that he used steroids to aid his recovery
and you know, I think that should be legal. I don’t want players using them to enhance performance over the course of a year, but if it can help them heal from injury and get their careers back on track and get them back in front of the fans sooner, I don’t object to that a bit.
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
but it would create a situation where the L would REALLY have to monitor and control the way the steroids are distributed, tested for, etc. But I agree, using them to recover from injury, like any of us could if needed, would be a good thing.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
But I don’t think steroids would help with a knee injury – it won’t regrow the meniscus.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 17, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Microfracture isn't for the meniscus.
It’s for cartilage on the bones. I’ve heard (possibly unreliably) that HGH may have have beneficial effects for microfracture recovery.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine what GO would look like now
if he had been using HGH to heal his knee? Something like this:

"I woke up this morning, Barbosa and eggs in my bed." --BlueBooYay
by MiledAnimal on Jul 17, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good god don't even read that, my own typing is disgusting me...
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need a "delete" option. Seriously...
by raoulduke on Jul 17, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prefiew first. Always prefiew.
"I woke up this morning, Barbosa and eggs in my bed." --BlueBooYay
by MiledAnimal on Jul 17, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was right in the middle of a * reptile zoo... and somebody was giving booze to these * things.
I think I’ve seen that movie too many times, but I love the opportunity to throw in the quotes. That movie is laden with so many scenarios I could be replying like this to you for a long time.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personal Story and Dave is most likey going 2 delete me for it too!
I was at the 82nd and Foster movie theater a couple years back, I was pregnant so i had to have been sometime in early 2004 late 2003. Anywho, My Boyfriend and I went to the Century 16 there off 82 to see the 3rd “friday” movie w/ Ice Cube. Sometime during the pre show music in walk Darius and our fav. dog killer Quintell . Theychose seats SMACK in the middle of the theater and started laughing and clowning talkin lowdly and people the conversation was soo rude and innapropriate even I was disgusted.
Of course, shortly after there arrival a steady stream of kids and fans walked in and started asking for autographs. Darius’ response after EVERY request:
“Im at a F*&^ing movie NO”
After every time he said that Quintell laughed… and he laughed hard into every one of those kids faces. We were soo disgusted that we left. I cannot believe someone would posess such hubris to treat another human being in that manner.
I was hurt for those kids. I hope Darius achieves nothing in life. He is a waste – an overrated piece of trash that deserves no 2nd chances. As for his claiming he has a bad rap for no reason just shows how mature he is. He should be taking the, “yeah i messed up in the past but im here to show im different and more of an adult” approach. He used to show up 2 practice DRUNK for christs sake. THe shooting that happened wasn’t him, but a member of his ‘crew’ was involved…so basically we know what type of peple he hangs around. Oh and lastly, that bit about his son, how phoney and stupid. Im soo glad that he is trying to convince people how much of a family man he is. Newborn huh, well i wonder how throwin stacks at the strip clubs in PDX is contributing to that baby’s well being.
Im am truly offended by reading that.
Anyone as blessed as he w/ God/higherdeity given talent and pisses it all away can kiss my 3 job having single parent struggling ass.
-Sophia
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
good post
Some great insight there. And I agree with most everything you’ve said. In regards to the movie situation – I think he is right to want to be able to watch a movie without getting hounded for autographs – those kids (and their parents) should have a bit more respect than that. Obviously the way he and DogKiller handled it was completely immature and inappropriate and shows the level of classless jerks that the are in the world.
It would be nice if he showed a bit more contrite and humble attitude in his interviews – accepting his past mistakes and talking (and showing!) he’s learned from him. But it seems as though like most pro athletes – that will never happen.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jul 17, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the movie, it wasn't the fact that he said no it was the way he said it
They were publicly demeaning those kids. Maybe im a little harsh on him. But really I just DESPISE people that are born w/ gifts and dont take full advantage of it. Its a disgrace to every hard worker tat buys one set of tix to see him play.
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure
you weren’t watching The Perfect Score with Darius himself?
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have never and will never watch that poorly written movie.
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so how do you really feel about Darius?
by tingeyga on Jul 17, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA sorry but like I said his "family first" "i want my son to see me play" attitude makes my blood boil
hits a nerve for me and frankly how blatantly FAKE he is being is soo transparent I cant understand how any team/scout/trainer is fallihg for it. How stupid of them
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the thing about second chances
is they can be freely given by others to me, or earned with persistant change. I had a guy tell me after appoligising for my behaviou, “dont say your sorry, CHANGE” I have been givin many second chances in my life, and thrown just as many back in just as many faces. The ones that I have gratitude for and instill value in have been the ones I have earned with change.
I feal you post, thanks for sharring.
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
we all make mistakes, its human nature. The fact that he has yet to learn from any of it (from what I can tell) is really sad. If he didnt make me so mad I would feel sorry for him..oh thats pity so nevermind.
-Sophia
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 18, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your definatly right thouw
about him not5 being deserving or really learning from this. But if he does changeand has been instructed by his handlers to let sleeping dogs lie and to put his best foot forward…...
on another note, I doubt there was any conspirecy. He was just as unhappy hear as we were with him hear. Ive lost motivation in life and just kinda held on for the paycheck. It wasnt untill I was cutoff that I was seriously able or more to the point willing to look at my side of things and change.
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
I’ve thought about this Miles situation quite a bit the several times it has come up over the past few weeks. And heres where I’m at on this.
I think Miles gets a bit worse rap here in Portland than he deserves. I think we look at his maddinging combination of amazing natural ability and lackluster work ethic, his inconsistent performance before the injury, and his inability to come back from it in a timely manner (whatever the combinations of reasons), he didn’t live up to his contract. I think we take all that stuff and we use THAT as the real (underlying) reason we label this guy the way we do—a locker room cancer, a bad guy, a jail blazer, all the rest. We say all those things and feel we can justify slamming the guy. But the reality I think is that he wasn’t all that – at least not all the way. This guy wasn’t a Zach or Bonzi or one of the others. He was a talented guy who was lazy. But we feel better about ourselves – it’s just easier for us – to just say “oh, he’s one of those jail blazer guys”. Maybe he was a bit, but not nearly like we make him out to be I think.
So, at the end of day here’s where I’m at. I wish Darius well. If he can come back and play in the league – good for him. It will have meant he worked for it, he turned around his lack of effort and did it, he would have overcome an NBA medical retirement for the first time ever. And I’ll be happy for him. Yeah, it will affect our cap position. But that’s life. Six months ago we thought he would be on our books through 2010 – and we still had a 2009 cap space plan. yeah, it won’t be as strong, but it’s still there. And we signed him to that deal, so I won’t feel cheated or like we got shafted. Instead, I’ll feel like we are right back where we thought we were going to be all along.
In short, I think we should feel like him being on our cap next summer is the default position. It’s where we are SUPPOSED to be. It’s where KP has been angling us for for the better part of two years. And it’s not a bad place to be at all. If it turns out he doesn’t make it back and we have that extra $9 million—then that’s a bonus.
I think that’s the right way to approach it.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jul 17, 2008 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah some stiff will sign him. The name darius will sell Tix. I hope he does go to Boston there goes a repeat..LOL
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure...
he developed that cancer tag long before being here.
I have no article support, but didn’t he have attitude problems both with the Clips and with the Cavs?
As he’s from the dregs of American civilization (see East St. Louis, scroll down to crime… yikes), it’s not hard to understand why.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 17, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
There’s a lot of decent people in East St. Louis, you know. It’s a bad area, but to say someone from there is from the dregs of American civilization seems over the top. The dregs of American civilization are all over the country, after all. There may be a very high concentration of them in East St. Louis, but this was inappropriate, IMO.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 4:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can't all be candy and rainbows, j
I apologize to the decent citizens of East St. Louis, but this city has a whole lotta trouble. I’m not trying to make fun of it, because I don’t find it humorous in any way. It’s actually very sad to me. And yes, there are plenty of other cities in bad shape, but few like this. Did you see those stats? That’s all with less than 32,000 people. If this isn’t the dregs, I don’t know what is.
The point I was trying to make was that if that’s the environment that someone is brought up in, he’s likely to have seen a side of life that few people do, whether by choice or not. I can only imagine the scarring that can do to a kids’ mind. It’s not hard to understand, then, why he might not be the most well-adjusted individual or why he might have a bad attitude.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on its appropriateness, but I stand by my comments.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 18, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read "Savage Inequalities", by Jonathan Kozol
If you live in Portland or any other place in Oregon, you can’t imagine what it’s like to grow up in East St. Louis. It’s one of those places in the US where poor people have just been completely abandoned. The schools couldn’t even afford to buy CHALK for the classrooms, let alone books! Kids in such an environment typically have to choose between the long shot chance of a career in professional sports and the more approachable goal of running a racket in a local gang.
"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"
These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.
by CatMan2 on Jul 18, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you describe fits the definition of dregs very well.
One of my dearest friends and coworkers is from St. Louis, born and raised. He tells it like you do… the real mean streets.
It’s sad.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 18, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've spent time in East St. Louis
I know what it’s like. I didn’t look at the stats, I’ve walked the streets. Pretty scary at times, too.
There’s some comparable areas on the other side of the river, too, though not of the same magnitude. Just as bad, but more localized.
East St. Louis gets its bad rap because it is right next to St. Louis, and it is (mostly) the bad area of the metropolis. Lots of the big city’s bad apples hang out there. It’s conveniently across state lines, so they are harder to catch/deal with. Other big cities have the same group of people, but they aren’t usually focused on one side of the river in a relatively small area. And because of that, a lot of people don’t want to move there, so it becomes self-perpetuating.
No, it’s not hard to understand why he might not be the most well-adjusted or have a bad attitude. I don’t disagree with your point, just the way it was expressed.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 19, 2008 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After witnessing Clark W. Griswolds experience in E. St Louis
aint no way Im ever going to stop and ask for directions
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some observations about the comments here:
I’m pretty sure that the Blazers won’t be paying all of Miles’s salary even if it is reapplied to the blazer’s for salary cap purposes. The career-ending injury provision is an actual provision of the CBA and when it’s granted to a team for a player, the insurance policy kicks in and picks up at least 80% of the salary. That is based on a medical conclusion and that conclusion doesn’t necessarily change if Miles plays in some games.
So portland (paul allen) would likely still save 80% of the value of the Miles contract. Accordingly, this move by the Blazers was a money-saving maneuver as well as a cap-space maneuver.
And if you read the CBA, the process whereby portland could re-apply to have Miles’s salary taken back off of their cap, may be successful, even if Miles plays in 50 games. The medical conclusion that determined he had a career ending injury was based upon a medical finding concerning the cartilage of his knee. That cartilage isn’t going to ‘get better’. It will still have that same condition that the finding was based upon. Obviously, him playing would be circumstantial evidence that the finding was a bit suspect, but if a followup medical examination of his knee reached the same medical conclusion as before, the Blazers could be granted cap-relief again.
by moldorf on Jul 17, 2008 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Doubt we'll see him play, but this is interesting nonetheless
There’s a lot of money involved, which means there’s a lot of doctors and lawyers involved, which means there are complex rules and requirements for getting a medical retirement. Both the NBA and the Players Union have made sure there are tons of safeguards in place to protect teams and players from pulling a fast one. Of course there’s always the possibility of a vast and wide conspiracy. Cool. I’m always up for a good conspiracy.
Yes, his recovery is surprising. I’ll buy the theory that performance enhancers have been involved his rehab. My question is: IF a team is thinking of signing him, do they have the right to do a drug test? Seems like the union wouldn’t allow it.
by Corvid on Jul 17, 2008 2:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing a team signing him wouldn't care to do a drug test
No news is good news on that front.
And if if Miles was pulling a fast one, it wouldn’t have to be a particularly vast conspiracy. For the Blazers to fudge it, the conspiracy would have to be broad and I don’t see anything they’d gain.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
???
So portland (paul allen) would likely still save 80% of the value of the Miles contract. Accordingly, this move by the Blazers was a money-saving maneuver as well as a cap-space maneuver.– moldorf
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moldorf
stated two things just above that the Blazers gain from the medical retirement. That is in response to you saying that you
don’t see anything they’d gain.
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, right.
I don’t see what the Blazers would gain if they were somehow manipulating things to have Miles medically retired when in fact he’s healthy enough to play, because the obvious next step would be for Miles to go to another team and get another contract. Just like he appears to be doing right now. So much for the cap space. Not to mention that it would be brutally unethical and even if the Blazers wanted to do something like that they’d have to consider that there’s a good chance it would blow up in their faces.
Sure, if you could somehow convince the league that a healthy Miles needs to be medically retired and then manage to KEEP him retired, there are benefits, but I don’t see what would keep a healthy player from just going elsewhere to get more money.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes we dont appriciate what we have
untill its gone. and that might be been the case with miles. he might just get it.
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Livingston
literally breaks his knee in half, almost has to have his leg amputated, but doesn’t medically retire.
Alonzo Mourning had a kidney transplant before recently tearing a tendon in his knee. He has yet to medically retire, even though he is 38.
Darius Miles rehabs for a year and a half, starts practicing again, plays basketball, runs, jumps, shoots, dunks, etc., and then is forced to medically retire?
That seem really shady in my opinion. Does this look like a guy who can’t physically play basketball? No. I know this is true because I can actually see him playing basketball. Weird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9xggG2f6UE&feature=related
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on Jul 17, 2008 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like your tone, young man.
Just kidding. Sort of.
Did the Blazers force him to medically retire? It seems to me that he had every avenue available to him to rehab and rejoin the team, and he characteristically mozied his way through it. From that point of view (which happens to be the Blazers), he forced the Blazers into medically retiring him.
The thing is, whether or not you feel as though he’s committed crimes or sins or injustices, the guy is a malcontent. He chose to play when he wanted, he chose how to act, he chose to berate the coach, he chose to sign for a lot of money. He also chose to drag out what is normally a 12 month rehab. How do you force a guy like that to do anything? He’s lazy. He’s got a bad attitude.
He seems really shady to me.
Also, Livingston hasn’t played in a game since, so who’s to say how that pans out, and Zo playing again was considered a freakin’ miracle.
Oh, and I’m banned from partaking in video goodness from the office, so I hope that youtube link doesn’t make me need to eat crow later.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 17, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's the link below you need to check out.
And yeah, Miles looks pretty nimble and sprightly in that admittedly short clip.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait which one was Miles???
I didn’t ever see miles in that clip.
Go M's
by OBF on Jul 18, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding of the damage to Mile's knee
was that it was more than anything the degeneration of the cartiledge more than ligament damage. That is where his knee injury differs from Livingston’s. Livingston’s damage was to the ligaments, but once those get put back together, even if he even plays in the NBA again his knee will be able to last him just as long as mine your yours. If the damage to the cartiledge then Darius’ knee is rubbing bone on bone and will quickly degenerate and we will need a knee replacement if he returns to the NBA (and probably even if he doesn’t). It is that almost certainty of the knee replacement that in my understanding led to the medical retirement finding.
by tingeyga on Jul 17, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOW THAT's FUNNY!
I’m sitting here watching it, thinking “who the f’ are these people? I don’t see Miles. Who’s that?”
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I watched that and was ashamed cuz I didn't recognize any Blazers
“Hey, there’s Roy! Nah, that ain’t Roy. Isn’t that…. nope. Darn.”
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WRONG LINK
I am an idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5BxOcpqRXs
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on Jul 17, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That makes a lot more sense
I really thought I was missing something in that first video. The picture was kind of fuzzy, but still I couldn’t even come close to recognizing any of those guys.
By the way, Darius can bring ‘defensive’ to the team.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 5:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he did not look healthy in that link
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes he does.
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on Jul 18, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He held his defensive stance for a second, then we have a headshot and interview
yah he didnt look like he had the plague, but a head shot is hardley indicative of the health of his knee. and just cause he can stand with knees slightly bent and arms outstreatched in a defencife position, and then hold that for a second, letting up only after the offence moves right on bye does not meen he is ready for the rigors of an nba season.
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He drives and dunks 18 seconds into it.
Are we watching the same video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5BxOcpqRXs
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on Jul 18, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG!!!
I stand corrected, or maybee I should sit down. Maybee I blinked (joke or serious) but I certainly missed it. My bad.
was kinda quick 2
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 18, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
no.
that short clip means zero. he showed nothing.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 18, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all he said
was that he didn’t look injured. Which is true, as little as you could glean from that video, Darius didn’t show any signs of being injured. Even if you can’t tell if he could play in a full NBA game, that’s not what Winchester said in the first place.
by MavetheGreat on Jul 18, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
I’m not saying he is super healthy, but he still looks like he can PLAY basketball. He has been getting good reviews from the teams he has worked out for. Shouldn’t that alone prove that he is physically capable of playing basketball?
Man alive, people are so sensitive.
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on Jul 18, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It proves that he can take pain meds and get through a workout
long enough to maybe get a contract. It doesn’t prove that his knee will take a daily NBA pounding for two thirds of a year.
by raoulduke on Jul 18, 2008 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
him blowing past McRoberts means nothing… it’s McBOB for crying out loud!
As the Blazers knew that cameras would be there, they could’ve set up the “practice” to have Miles vs. McBob to enhance the image that Miles was healthy… how would we know any different?
Other teams blowing smoke that his workouts are good doesn’t mean anything.
Look, whatever, if you’re under the impression that the Blazers acted shady against a dude who is the definition of shady, so be it. Far be it from me to know what really happened… I just know I don’t trust Miles one bit. If he makes it to another team, good for him. I wish him the best…
somewhere else.
Just BEdge it.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 18, 2008 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chill out EVERYONE!
KP did not mismanaged the Miles situation. Two doctors looked Miles’ knee and diagnosed it as medically unfit to play professional basketball. The Blazer team doctor and an independent doctor both agreed that Miles’ professional basketball career was over. There is no shady behind the scenes business. How can you, as a Blazer fan, knowing everything about KP, question his ethics or character? Are you accusing KP of bribing or persuading the doctors for a favorable diagnosis?
I hope the doctors were wrong and Miles can play again. I don’t wish medical retirement on any player, especially someone as young as Miles. If his salary comes back on our cap, so be it. We weren’t suppose to have that cap relief anyways. That’s my two cents.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on Jul 17, 2008 2:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not directing this at anyone in particular
Just nipping things in the bud. Maybe I’m talking to myself, blzrfan…hahaha
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on Jul 17, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, most comments above
aren’t questioning KP. But it is a lot of reading if you just showed up.
by shralpster on Jul 17, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will
question anyone in the organization if I think they aren’t doing their job well, but I think this whole thing is a non-issue. He hasn’t played in one game yet, and the NBA regular season is a little bit rougher than a workout. Personally, I’d like to see him get into another game, but that’s only because I enjoy seeing professional athletes get embarrassed, especially ones like Darius.
Oden/Pryz
LMA/Frye
WebFoot/Trout
Roy/Rudy
Blake/Bayless
**Champs 08-09**
by BigCelPhone on Jul 17, 2008 4:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I hope he gets his ankles broke by CP3 or something…
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did I not put Broy first
Dumb move on my part…
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite thing
is that in a week there will be a new article and we’ll all come back and re-hash this again!
by MavetheGreat on Jul 17, 2008 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's summer for NBA nerds like us
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jul 17, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Blazer Fans...
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and really the way the media is under his nuts now is absolutely absurd
how can we not comment
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Under his nuts?
It was one article.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the true hoop had a feature about how
our organization leaked the drug test results b/c they want to discourage other teams from picking him up – it had a pretty negative tone toward the blazers and was sympathetic to Miles- I hate Darius and yes if one likes him or feels that scum bags who squander their own talent deserve multiple chances to succeed and millions of dollars to boot – i will clasify that person as 1 that resides under his nuts
-Sophia
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 17, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How'd I miss that one?
I always read TH. I could certainly see the media running with this, I just haven’t seen it yet.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 17, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a good thing?
Or is that something from a new radio rap song?
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There seems to be some confusion
Nobody is “forcing” darius miles to retire. There is a process set forth in the CBA dealing with ‘career-ending injury’ . This is a 2-step process, that first gathers the medical data and derives a conclusion about the injury. The 2nd step is then to formally declare the player to have a career-ending injury. This then crosses the threshold into where the insurance on an “insured & Guaranteed contract” then absloves the team’s obligation for a percentage of the contract. There is also a provision within the section of the CBA allowing the salary of the player to be reoved from the team’s salary base.
That’s what has happened here. The Blazers have no control at all over what Miles does. They can’t compel him to ‘stay retired’. There is nothing about ‘retirement’ in that section of the CBA.
Miles is not the player that the Blazers gave that big contract to. He has a damaged cartilage in one of his knees and that isn’t going to change. The Blazers simply availed themselves of a regulatory process to have insurance (to which they pay major premiums on all the players) relieve some of the salary obligation.
It’s certain that any team that signs Miles won’t be subjecting him to a standard physical. There will also almost certainly be a lengthy clause to any contract Miles signs absolving the team from any permanent damage or disability Miles suffers in case of injury while under contract.
by moldorf on Jul 17, 2008 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
2 points
First I think the I am a parent and therefore now a responsible adult act is bs but I have seen having a kid grow immature punks up before, its unlikely but not impossible.
Second My Son number 1 has a degree in sports medicine and Son number 2 did a Darius style blowout on his knee playing center[football] at AZ State in his junior year so this subject has been under discusion in my family. The docs told him that yea he could play his senior year if he didnt mind not being able to walk when he is 40 without a metal knee.Son number 1 agrees.
by southern oregon on Jul 17, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the blazers gave you what you wanted
If the blazers had kept miles around to see what his market value could be..you people would have turned blue and tuned out…every time we struggled during the year the fans would be wondering if darius is being a cancer in the locker room…if you think back darius said he was ready to play during the end of last season, but it was management decision to keep him inactive..i wish him luck and success…and in reality.a. 15 million dollar starting salary maybe more with a trade..is nothing to sneeze at to a potential free agent… so who cares if he plays..wish the guy luck. just not against the blazers
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 17, 2008 8:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
titties beer and benjamins
Miles and miles of titties, beer, and benjamins
Once upon a time DMiles was my favorite blazer player. I loved it when he joined our team. His style of play added an exciting element to our teams game. Like other fans and the owner of our team Paul Allen I was looking forward to seeing him play for our team for a long time.
I didn’t feel that way for very long, because it didn’t take all that long for him to show us who he really is A doper, a drunk, and a slacker. A guy who called his coach that word that begins with an N that just about everyone finds offensive. A guy who helped get that coach fired, and a guy who now says… "The truth is, Maurice Cheeks was the best coach I had because he was the first person who told me I had way more potential than I was giving,"
I remember just a few months ago when Darius decided to hit the town with former Oregon Duck quarterback Dennis Dixon. Perhaps, as a pro athlete he thought it would be good thing to take a young fella out and mentor him. Providing a bit of fatherly advice for someone starting his pro career sounds like a nice thing to do.
So Miles showed up at the Dolphin2, Dennis in tow, and showed him what being a pro athlete was all about. Titties, beer and benjamins. Stacks and stacks of 50 hundred dollar bills. Hundred dollar bills flying through the air to the delight of the dancers and no doubt young Dennis. The dancers had a good time, and I am sure Dennis and Darius had a good time because they made several trips to the VIP room. Usually those who visit the VIP room do have a good time. At least so I’m told. Of course, Darius is married so he probably just went in there for some conversation about his family.
Family is very important to Darius. Or so he would have us believe. Just recently he told Sports Illustrateds Ian Thomsen "I just had a son, he’s six months old, and I want my son to see me play basketball". Hello, Darius? Were you thinking about your son when you went to the nudie bar with Dennis when he was just a few weeks old? Would you like your son to see you throwing stacks of hundreds at strippers?
Miles tells Thomsen that he thinks the labels people have placed upon him a bit unfair. "I don’t do anything out of the ordinary. It’s crazy how you get labeled." I guess I am a little naive, because in the world I have known I wouldn’t call that trip to the strip club ordinary. Nor would I call saying the kinds of things he said to his boss (Cheeks) ordinary.
Maybe all those titties and beer have affected his memory. It wasn’t all that long ago Miles told John Canzano…"Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me before. But it’s not like I’m at practice drunk. I’m totally focused. I don’t care if you come to practice and take shower, once you go to practice and start sweating, its going to come out. That doesn’t mean you aren’t focused or ready to practice. Like you might go out, you might get drunk, and come to the gym higher than a mother, and you sweating, you smell like liquor, and you interviewing everybody. What does that mean? You still 100 percent focused. That’s just ridiculous. Ask any other team, little petty stuff like that, if you ask any other coach in the NBA if they smell liquor on a player, any coach would say, every year. Some players go out in every city they go to."
That sounds more like a guy who doesn’t care what others think than a guy who is truly concerned with what other people think of him.
Darius entire attitude and demeanor changed after he signed a 48 million dollar deal with the Blazers. He got his. There was nothing left to play for.
He rewarded the man who placed forty eight million dollars of faith in him and who gave him a contract which was a lot more than he was expecting with halfhearted efforts and a bad attitude. He took the team out to a night club BEFORE a game on a road trip in Indiana. He and his posse were often in the news in connection with a disturbance at strip clubs, bars, and there were rumors of drug abuse and a connection to the Woods dogfighting scandal.
Ian Thomsen makes Miles sound like some sort of misunderstood boy scout in his SI article. Not once did he mention a named credible source that stated Miles medical condition was sound, or that he was demonstrating on a basketball court the ability to play at the level he was able to play at before his injury.
How many Benjamins did Miles agent stuff into Thomsens pocket to get him to promote him in this way? Why did Thomsen so willingly act as Miles tool?
Miles and his agent are clearly blowing smoke in every direction they can in one last attempt at cashing in on a contract he will not ever fulfill. Ian Thomsen is helping them do it.
I don’t condemn Miles for his attempt to resume his career. I do not respect him for the way he behaved after Paul Allen made him a very rich man. He made us believe he was someone he wasn’t, and as a result he got a big prize. A 48 million dollar contract.
He is not fooling me anymore. He is an ass. A very rich ass. But an ass nonetheless. All the garbage I read about him being a family man and having a burning desire to play basketball again are stories. Stories he and his agent are using to fool someone else into signing him to another deal.
Mike Barratt says the Blazers doctors have told him Miles knee is bone on bone. Kevin Pritchard said today on 95.5 the game that their doctor told Miles that if he was his own son he would tell him to never again play basketball. The likely scenario for Miles playing again would be that he would blow his knee out and require total knee replacement resulting in him never being able to walk properly.
We know Miles has been suspended for the league for violation of the substance abuse policy. Since it is a ten game suspension, as Jason Quick surmises, it is likely for steroids.
"Ten games is a very specific number, if you take that information to the CBA, you’ll find that there are two ways to get that suspension: For a fourth marijuana offense, or for a first performance enhancing drugs offense.
In the event that a ten-game suspension is for a fourth marijuana offense, it would follow a five-game suspension (for the third-marijuana offense). Darius Miles has not had a five-game suspension, and the League confirms that if he had had an earlier five-game suspension, we would know about it."
I don’t think Miles wants to play basketball. I do think he misses the lifestyle. And I do think he’d take whatever drugs he thought might get him through a one year deal, hoping to snag one last big payoff. I think he and his agent are after some more money. And I wouldn’t put anything past them in their attempt to get it.
http://www.clubblazers.com/miles-and-miles-of-titties-beer-and-benjamins/
by ucatchtrout on Jul 17, 2008 10:59 PM PDT reply actions 9 recs
So
why wasn’t this a fanpost all of its own?
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 4:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
The language though might be worked on. This is the second response in this thread that I think is really good, but it could get yanked because of the language.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What language?
You can’t say titties and ass? All us mammals have titties. That’s how God made us.
by timg56 on Jul 18, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also have other things that we can't say here.
I’m not the administrator and I’m not saying it is certainly over the line, just pointing out that there has been a lot of borderline language in this thread.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be more worried about BORDERLINE LIBELOUS than "titties" and "ass"...
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on Jul 19, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about when Miles
claimed in the off season he was “born again” and we’d see a whole different player? Except that he wasn’t going to talk about it because actions speak louder than words. That could add to some of your irony. I couldn’t find that article when I searched for it, does anyone remember where that came from?
by MavetheGreat on Jul 18, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice to hear someone that shares my sentiment
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 18, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But this is his second chance
"He is one of several very talented young players who has a great upside," Nuggets coach Jeff Bzdelik said about Qyntel Woods
by tominhawaii on Jul 18, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Word
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
Everyone says “Basketball is a business.”
And if I called my boss the sort of name that Darius called his boss, I’d be out the door jobless in two seconds.
The End.
RipCity -- now, now ...
by Y5k on Jul 18, 2008 6:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Another perspective
There seems to be a lot of up and down about this, but is it really that far off from Darius playing again? This article highlights some things that are working against Darius, but let’s look at what a GM would gain by picking him up:
1. This guy could have some potential left. He is 26 years old and is able to touch the top of the square on the backboard after a 90 minute workout where he claims he isn’t in basketball shape. That ain’t bad. He is a small risk big reward being that he was a phenom coming into the league and he would just be entering the prime of his career now if he was healthy. Couple that with a monster injury clause in his contract and it would be difficult for someone to pass on him.
2. Marketability. Most of the league isn’t familiar with Darius’s situation, but they do recognize the name. Signing him could be a boon to the team’s finances, even if it’s just a little more than what they pay for him.
3. An added bonus to singing him would be that you put a possible up and coming dynasty in a tough spot. The normal thing to do in nearly any situation in any professional sport is to improve the quality of your team alone and let the other guy do his thing. But when is the last time that anyone knew that a Dynasty was in the making in their youth. No one could have seen the Patriots coming. The Spurs? Where did Parker get drafted? what about Ginobli? Our situation is not very common. This I doubt this would be anyone’s plan A for singing him, but it certainly isn’t a bad bonus. Honestly, if this were a board game and I had the power to thwart the up and coming powerhouse’s plan, I would (I was going to go with a settlers of Catan reference, and now I just did. My inner geek is now in full view).
Darius wasn’t a character guy by any means. All the stories here really gave light to the little things that display who he is as a person, as opposed to us just getting the few and far between big incidences that don’t shed too much light into who he really is. Thanks for that by the way ucatchtrout and blazerfan1. But there does seem to be one thing that pops out at me contrary to the beliefs about his attitude. He is getting his money from his contract now. If he were to play and blow out his knee, he would be doing it at the possibility of getting what, another million unless he makes it through a whole season, and play well to boot? Compared to what he has already banked and the effects a full blowout would have, that doesn’t seem like a good trade off. I would think not only that he really can play, but that he really wants to.
So on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from where most people here stand, say he does come back, he plays the 10 games and he’s in. Moving forward from there, what happens if he does prove that he can be a starting 3 or 6th man? If the team decides to send him an offer before he hits the free agent market after the end of the season, is he off our books? I know the probability is small, but still, if he comes back it would be nice to know exactly how little to root for him. He did take the contract and this community’s resources (time, energy and hopes) and completely squander them. I don’t appreciate that and would have a hard time rooting for him, but I’ll let it be water under the bridge if a complete comeback helps us out.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 6:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's on our books even if he plays for another team
Just like Steve Francis is.
Messing up Portland won’t come into it for another team. We’re going to have cap space anyway, since the Zach trade. Not as much if Darius manages a comeback, but still enough to get a nice player, unless we extend all our guys. And if all our guys are good enough to extend, we won’t need to get a nice player.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it won't put us in a corner
but it would make a few top options unreachable, or at least make us give up more to get one. There’s no question we would be better off if he didn’t sign. Again, not reason A, but I wouldn’t say that isn’t at least a small bonus.
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you jscot
my thoughts exactly why do we need to sign a “big” name free agent… we have what we need… its called time to jell as a team.. I dont remember trying to get a big name before we went crazy in the 90’s we just came out of nowhere with the team we had in place
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 19, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think assuming that other teams might look
to sign Miles just to put a crimp in Portland’s plans is pretty far fetched. But I know how a lot of people can’t keep away from the conspiracy koolaid.
by timg56 on Jul 18, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many times do I have to say it
It’s unlikely that anyone would sign him ‘just to put a crimp in Portland’s plans’. I doubt it would be a big reason for that decision. You factor in a lot when trying to add a personnel, but if someone were split between signing a d-league player with little potential and little injury risk vs Miles with a lot of both that’s a tough decision. The fact that it does hurt your biggest threat has to weigh in a little. If Darius’s situation was only a small factor in this team’s future we wouldn’t spend so much time talking about it. Did you even read what I wrote or were you just trying to sift out the ‘conspiracy koolaid’ so you could try to be clever?
by einman77 on Jul 18, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
If Darius’s situation was only a small factor in this team’s future we wouldn’t spend so much time talking about it.
Yes, we probably would.
...But I agree with your points.
by MavetheGreat on Jul 18, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Family Man
Just noticed this on his myspace page
[quote] Darius Miles’s Details
Status: Swinger
Here for: Dating
Orientation: Straight[/quote]
Mr. Family Man is trolling for hotties on myspace.
by ucatchtrout on Jul 18, 2008 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He probably was just joking
stars all the time flirt with the females..rock stars do it all the time… and any thing you read from the blazers page is going to be sugar coated… you will always hear what you want to hear..it a blazer bill board… mr miles knee can not possibly be “bone to bone” no way he walks without a limp.. let alone touch the top of the square on the back board..he couldnt explode…or work out for more than one team..darius is healthy..cant you see it??
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 18, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and i know he's a family man
but lets face it he is not what you call a “base ball, hot dog, apple pie and chevrolet” kinda all american dude… maybe his wife isnt either..she could be a domnitrix for all we know … just sayin
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 18, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late 20's, lazy, dispassionate, disruptive, coming off major knee
surgery etc etc
Once again, I’ll believe it when I see it
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 18, 2008 6:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sticking up for Miles
The guy is a pariah. I wonder how his Thomas Jefferson spliff-mobile is running?
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That Car Was Cool
That has nothing to do with Miles’ character, ability to play, and be a team player.
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
by tominhawaii on Jul 19, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not surprised you cant see it
but I do think painting a founding father burning one on the hood of your car is a reflection of character. I didnt say it had anything to do with his ability to play or his ability to play team ball.
Yea I wouldnt expect him to drive around in the Partridge family mobile, but Thomas Jefferson is the reason Darius can go butt-up on a 48 Million dollar deal and still walk away like he matters. Utter disrespect to all that matters. If Darius had the chance he’d spit on the Constitution.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Ben Franklin anyhow
And this webpage, that I am 100% sure is certifiable, says that he smoked refer…................. TO THE EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
by tominhawaii on Jul 19, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait I was sure it was Jefferson
talk about splitting hairs tho. Who has that link from the Oregonian, it would be a pleasant reminder. As I remember at the time, PTB fans were clamoring for info on Darius and since the franchise wasnt revealing anything, nor Darius for that matter, the only info we got was the glamour shot of the doobie mobile. Not character related tho, huh?
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOOPS! Missed the first link-izle
wow thats when I hadnt found the Bedge and was posting on my names-sake. Glad to see my opinion hasnt wavered. I never realized I was already at odds with you even before I joined the Bedge.
As I re-read those comments, it only verifies why Im right and you are wrong.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom it wasnt reefer back then it was hemp
It wasnt grown hydroponically and its uses foremost were industrial. Didnt you ever as a kid puff on the old dry grass straw when dad was out of cigs to steal? See, back then it was no big deal and nobody gave a hoot and nanny about relaxing to the sweet and now.
If Darius wanted to make a statement for change he could have at least restored one of those old bootleggers and painted it.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the first thing you've said to me, that I understood
I always think you’re mad at me, and your like some old man shaking your cane at me as I huff paint in your shed. I think I agree with you now. It was totally a misunderstanding by my part, and for that I am sorry. I think we are in 100% compliance and agreeance on this one. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was just being silly. High Five!
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
by tominhawaii on Jul 19, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not anger, its passion
you did realize I was b2k before I was b4m? I was always accused at work of sending emails whose “tone” was questionable. Im inacapable of hate (sept towards l*kers or fans who show up to the RG in Kb gear. I dont think we are that different. You say obnoxious things and I retort, either flippity-flopped. Its not about me or you, its about the PTB. I got your back bro, just like I got Mortimers.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
besides I know where you are from
it makes it that much better to defeat you. Music always help me alleviate my true feelings.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dap
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
by tominhawaii on Jul 19, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
you makin me work for that link, and hurt me like that
"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown
"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit
by ptwnblzr on Jul 19, 2008 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I admire a lot of what Jefferson did and stood for.
But he did own slaves. And he knew it was wrong. So let’s not deify these dead white guys, okay?
"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"
These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.
by CatMan2 on Jul 20, 2008 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's posts like this that reassure me...
... that I don’t have to worry much about competition from a younger generation.
Of course it also reinforces my believe that I shouldn’t count on Social Security either.
by timg56 on Jul 21, 2008 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to assume that I'm younger than you
You also seem to assume that my age has something to do with my understanding of history and my views about what constitutes moral behavior. To be utterly clear, my position about dead AND living presidents is this:
They are human beings, with human frailties, like all of us. They are public figures and we have a right to criticize them as we see fit. In fact, because we live in a democracy of sorts, we owe it to ourselves and others to do so. Ironically, Jefferson, of all people, would strongly agree that political leaders should not be placed on a pedestal. Among the presidents we’ve had, Jefferson stacks up well, perhaps even as the greatest of all of them. However, he should not be let off the hook on slavery.
Now, I don’t know what Darius Miles had painted on his car, and I don’t really care. My post was a reaction to someone who was upset that Jefferson, or maybe some other “founding father”, might have been disrespected. My point was that depending on how you summed up the moral pluses and minuses, you (or more likely I) might find that any implied criticism was well-deserved.
Finally, I’m well aware that Miles may have not intended any such message. In fact, I think it’s likely he did not. But, as is made clear by this discussion, what is actually communicated to each of us may say more about who WE are than who HE is.
[This space temporarily left blank.]
by CatMan2 on Jul 21, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A person in the US has the freedom to criticize whomever they want.
That’s not exactly the same as having the right to. For example one sees all sorts of criticizims of players, coaches, and the Blazer orgamization here. We are free to express our opinions. But one should consider just how much right they have to be a critic when they are judging someone in a capacity they themselves have never had to perform.
It is our responsibility as citizens to be informed about matters. When lacking sufficient information, it is wise to apply a critical eye to proposals, promises and policy put forth by public officials. Finding fault with them is just a tiny fraction of meeting our obligations as citizens. Critisizm without solutions is just so much hot air.
Regarding Jefferson. A nasty trend of viewing the past through the lense of our current society has crept into large segments of our educational system. Those who teach in this manner usually have an agenda they are pushing and those who buy into it usually fall short in the critical thinking category. Arguing that Thomas Jefferson is somehow tarnished because he was a landowner who held slaves and that he should not be “let off the hook” for it is a shallow attempt to extend one’s current views back into the past. Jefferson was a product of his environment, in that he was a well to do, priviledged southern land owner and farmer. He operated within a well established and still accepted economic system that utilized slave labor. Both the concept and institution of slavery had existed from the beginning of recorded human history and was only just beginning to be seriously challenged, at least insofar as it applied to non-whites. Criticizing Jefferson on this score is akin to critizing a surgeon of the day for amputating a mangled limb rather than performing reconstructive surgery.
I personally am not into deifying anyone. But before you start taking shots at “dead white guys”, it might behoove you to remember that these same “dead white guys” you are being critical of risked far more than anything you likely have to create a nation like none other ever seen before.
by timg56 on Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I love this place
I think you two agree with each other but you’re arguing. Respectfully like and what not, as well.
I love you guys.
--. --- | -... .-.. .- --.. . .-. ...
by tominhawaii on Jul 21, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
But I love you.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 22, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go Blazers
A person in the US has the freedom to criticize whomever they want.
That’s not exactly the same as having the right to. For example one sees all sorts of criticizims of players, coaches, and the Blazer orgamization here. We are free to express our opinions. But one should consider just how much right they have to be a critic when they are judging someone in a capacity they themselves have never had to perform.
Maybe you mean that, regardless of whether one is free to criticize someone, it might be for the best if one did not do so. I can agree with you on that in principle. It’s on the specifics that we will disagree. If everyone were to refrain from criticism except in circumstances where one has had personal experience, this blog would be dead. More importantly, it would be the end of any meaningful political discussion.
It is our responsibility as citizens to be informed about matters. When lacking sufficient information, it is wise to apply a critical eye to proposals, promises and policy put forth by public officials. Finding fault with them is just a tiny fraction of meeting our obligations as citizens. Critisizm without solutions is just so much hot air.
This argument doesn’t have much to do with what I wrote. Nevertheless, I’ll tell you that I strongly disagree with your concluding statement. When we hire someone to do a job, whether it is laying a carpet, coaching a team, playing dance music at a wedding, or overseeing the federal government, we generally lack the expertise needed to do the job ourselves. However, there is nothing wrong with insisting that reasonable results be obtained or with holding people responsible for their performance.
Regarding Jefferson. A nasty trend of viewing the past through the lense of our current society has crept into large segments of our educational system. Those who teach in this manner usually have an agenda they are pushing and those who buy into it usually fall short in the critical thinking category. Arguing that Thomas Jefferson is somehow tarnished because he was a landowner who held slaves and that he should not be "let off the hook" for it is a shallow attempt to extend one’s current views back into the past. Jefferson was a product of his environment, in that he was a well to do, priviledged southern land owner and farmer. He operated within a well established and still accepted economic system that utilized slave labor. Both the concept and institution of slavery had existed from the beginning of recorded human history and was only just beginning to be seriously challenged, at least insofar as it applied to non-whites. Criticizing Jefferson on this score is akin to critizing a surgeon of the day for amputating a mangled limb rather than performing reconstructive surgery.
No matter whether slavery was legal and “accepted” in the US, it was still wrong. There were strong abolition movements in Europe and in America. Jefferson personally observed the French Revolution and was greatly impressed by the doctrine and zeal of the revolutionaries who, among other acts, abolished slavery in 1791. (It was re-established under Napoleon.) Here, there were numerous groups working to end slavery, including one headed by Ben Franklin in 1784. Many religious groups, like the Quakers, had long opposed slavery. Indeed, Jefferson, himself, strongly favored abolition and argued eloquently for it. However, although he did free some of his slaves, he did not free all of them, and they were sold at the time of his death to pay the debts of his estate. It seems that he had personal economic reasons for maintaining his slaves. He knew it was wrong to keep them, but he did it anyway.
My main guide to what is right or wrong is very simple: the Golden Rule. If we have empathy and compassion, if we can imagine ourselves in someone else’s shoes, then we know what to do. Jefferson could certainly appreciate this, and yet he failed to do what he should have done. Ironically, it is because Jefferson was such an important figure in the struggle for freedom that this failure looms so large.
I personally am not into deifying anyone. But before you start taking shots at "dead white guys", it might behoove you to remember that these same "dead white guys" you are being critical of risked far more than anything you likely have to create a nation like none other ever seen before.
It is my opinion that we would all be much better off with no sacred cows, no idols, no larger-than-life heroes. Political leaders, more than the rest of us, should be treated skeptically, and we should never get too comfortable with them.
tominhawaii says that he thinks we are basically in agreement. I don’t think that’s true, but that’s okay. Different strokes. He also says we’re being respectful of each other. Well, I have to say that I don’t find your tone to be very respectful. You started out belittling my opinion as apparently only worthy of a young person, which is insulting to young people, as well. Later you characterized my arguments as “hot air”. Then you implied that I either have “an agenda” (whatever that means), or I “fall short in the critical thinking category”. Next you described my argument as a “shallow attempt” to yata, yata. If you look back over what I wrote, you will not find any ad hominem attacks. It might behoove you to behave more politely.
[This space temporarily left blank.]
by CatMan2 on Jul 21, 2008 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy Post Batman!
well done…
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
by BlazerFan1 on Jul 21, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is an old saying...
... “If the shoe fits, ...”
Not once did I refer directly to you. I was speaking generally. If you saw yourself in those comments, then that is your doing, not mine. The only thing I related directly to you were your comments about dead white guys and not letting Jefferson off the hook.
As for Jefferson’s “failure” looming so large, that is a matter of opinion and the crux of this discussion. The fact that Jefferson believed at some level that his ownership of slaves was against God’s will, yet was able to rationalize it, is a mark of his moral weakness as a human being, but has little bearing on his greatness as one of this nation’s founders. That he was able to do this is more evidence of a trait he apparently shared with his namesake, William Jefferson Clinton – the ability to compartmentalize conflicting beliefs. Jefferson exhibiting this trait with regard to his owning of slaves pales in comparison to how he was able to do a 180 on the issue of political parties, when it comes to his impact on our nation’s future. Had Jefferson decided to free all of his slaves, it would have been a minor footnote in history, much the same as Washington’s.
I’m really curious just how you feel this whole issue exhibits a “failure” on Jefferson’s part. In what way would history or our nation be any different, had he freed his slaves? If you want to discuss a failure, it would be that of the entire Continental Congress and the framers of the Constitution for shoving the issue of slavery out the back door so it could be ignored. Sure, Jefferson could have thrown his weight on the side of elimination. But that not only would have gone against the norms of his world, it would have been a forelorn hope and likely to have ripped asunder the hard fought compromises that allowed all 13 colonies to unite under one constitution. Any failure on this score is a collective failure and not solely one attributable to Jefferson. It also has the beneift of hindsight. Had they known a civil war was just 3 generations in the future, perhaps they might have tried to deal with the issue then. But at the time, it was fairly obvious to all participants that the issue of slavery was a rock upon which ratification would have foundered, had they not navigated around it.
by timg56 on Jul 23, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's put this to rest, please
If you didn’t intend to somehow link my opinions with what you see as a problem in the educational system, then why bring it up? What if I said to you, “The people I run into who believe as you do usually turn out to be psychotics who have gone off their meds?” Sure, I didn’t say that describes YOU, but what is the intent of this kind of rhetoric? Let’s be real. Your overall tone was that of a parent lecturing some snotty-nose kid from down the street whom he thinks is a bad influence on his own kid. Now, normally I could let that slide, but given the post by tih, I felt I had to say something or else be in tacit agreement.
It was not my intent to evaluate Jefferson as an author of the Constitution, or as an elected leader, or in any public capacity at all. Whether he succeeded or failed in any aspect of his public life is interesting to discuss but is largely irrelevant here.
My main point, and simply my OPINION is this: human beings are not infallible, and those who have positions of power and responsibility over others are subject to criticism. In fact, in a democracy, this MUST be the case.
The criticism might refer to some policy issue, or it might refer to a person’s character. Furthermore, public figures may be used as symbols, such as in the case that was being discussed, where Jefferson, or perhaps Franklin, in effect represented state power. Now that criticism might assume the form of an op-ed article in the newspaper, or it might be painted on somebody’s car. The critique might be a carefully worded tract or it might be a cartoon juxtaposing one of the founders of our country with an illegal plant in order to point out the hypocrisy of current laws or at least the irony. In any event, I don’t have a problem with it, and when other people attack this free expression of opinion as disrespectful, I am apt to say something, myself.
What I now regret is that I did not spend more time initially making this point. What I DID write was not at all persuasive (whether or not any of THIS is), but just served as a kind of short-hand note representing my bottom line. At the time, I was busy and didn’t want to spend too much time in the discussion; I’ve now spent way more time than I ever intended. With that, I am going to move on.
[This space temporarily left blank.]
by CatMan2 on Jul 23, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether it means anything or not....
... your last two posts have been persuasive, to one degree or another. Don’t feel like you’ve wasted your time. I also tend to agree with Tom, in that there probably is more we might agree on than there there are points we might never reach understanding on.
FYI – had you said "The people I run into who believe as you do usually turn out to be psychotics who have gone off their meds?", it wouldn’t have meant anything to me. While I might be psychotic, I know I’m not taking any medication for it, therefore I would automatically assume that the statement didn’t apply to me.
by timg56 on Jul 23, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You have the right to free speech / So long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it" -- J. Strummer
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on Jul 22, 2008 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe We're All Missing the Point
Everything about Miles, begins and ends with Miles, not KP, management, Mac or the Blazers. Consider that after two years out, he finally heals up enough to feel good again, and in order to play, takes a drug test. And fails it. Think about it. Here’s a kid making $9 million a year, hasn’t played for two years, and the first thing he does he screws it up. He could’ve taken his own tests before the NBA to make sure he was clean – but didn’t. I’m willing to bet he didn’t even know that what he was taking was illegal.
And this is vintage Miles. Not a bad kid, just always seems to be a little clueless. Some call it a lack of judgement, of common sense, whatever. Another way of putting it is that he just never seems to be 100% dialed in. Now, think about his career. All those issues. Think about how many were really just judgement issues? Making poor decisions. Wrong place at the wrong time. Not listening to the coaches. Etc.
Now, think about the knee injury for a moment. The Blazers, the NBA, and the doctors are telling him he has had a serious knee injury – as if, I might point out, an almost two year recovery wouldn’t tell most of us that anyhow.
So what’s Miles do? Does he listen? What do you think all of these people have been trying to tell him? Think about it. After all, do you really think that they hate the kid, or are lieing to him, or looking for some way to dump him. Give me one instance of KP or the Blazers showing that kind of a vindictive streak. Anyone?
Now, what’s the first reality of injuries like this? Answer: You are never 100% again. Period. Any athlete on this board knows that.
What’s the second reality? If he blows that knee out again, and it can never be as strong as it was, then just how long will the next recovery period take? Three years? Further, will he ever again have the same amount of movement he has today, if he does blow it out?
Some of you are athletes. What’s your take?
Now, what’s the next reality? Well, we all know that a healthy Darius is worth a contract, even if he is a bit less dialed in. But, he doesn’t have one yet – does he?
Why?
My take – because just like the Blazers, most of these GM’s, no matter how tough and competitive, aren’t in the business of exploiting this somewhat naive player, and then have him, on their watch, blow that knee out one final – and forever last time?
Darius is chasing a dream. To get there, he’s simply not listening. The Blazers did everything they could to get through to him. But just like so many times on so many other things, they couldn’t do it.
In the end, the issue isn’t is Darius healthy. It’s not is he 100%. He issue is he can never be 100% again. And if he doesn’t take care of that knee – he’ll lose it. And the Blazers are perfectly willing to suck his contract rather than carry the responsibility for encouraging him to play, when the bottom line is he should retire. Now.
by Eben Calder on Jul 19, 2008 3:13 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Good stuff. The poor, pitiful guy took DIET PILLS to try to make a comeback. He's desperate.
I wonder what his financial situation really is.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on Jul 20, 2008 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you call your coach a N------bomb
It seems like bad is the appropriate and clueless the excuse.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
can we just keep him
If he’s going to make a comeback, and we’re going to have to pay him, is it still possible to just keep him? Because we waived him under the assumption that he was medically unable to play, and if he’s able to play then isn’t our waiver predicated on something that isn’t true?
Not that I want him around or anything, I think he needs to be able to start over in a new city with a new team, with a fresh slate to be able to succeed.
Goodbye blue Monday
by isaacjoe on Jul 19, 2008 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Darius got waived and was unsigned
why was he mandated into a drug test in the first place. No love lost here for Darius when it comes to the PTB but honestly
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi insinuating Trail Blazer fans have forgotten about how important Steve Blake and Joel Pryzbilla are to the team.
by bow4meow on Jul 19, 2008 5:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
KP on Miles
Oregon Live interviewed KP today on Darius. His comments in brief are that the injury was described by the Blazers and their team doctors, and the NBA’s doctor, as the “worst microfracture” they’d seen. Further, if he blows the knee out, there’ll be no reahabbing. Instead, the knee will have to be replaced with an artificial knee. And KP said that he wasn’t about to give Darius any encouragement to play again and then be responsible for that.
Darius is just Darius. He’s out hustling teams with his version of how “look guys, I can still play”, while the teams are reading the reports from the medical professionals. And none have signed him up. The fact that he can show up for a try-out is irrelevant. Oh, it makes some good press and looks good, but the Blazers, and the Doctors, are just shaking their heads.
Now, tell me a single GM that is going to listen to Darius, not the doctors, and then give the kid the opportunity to become a cripple – for life.
You know every well every GM has read the reports. And you know very well that every GM has a spot on the third team if they want to use it. And you know equally, that if there was a single ray of shining light in those medical reports, that given Darius’s skills, they’d sign him for a minimum contract in a minute. It’s a no risk deal for them.
But who in their right mind wants to be the guy that enouraged someone like Darius to play, knowing that that opportunity virtually guarantees that the kid will end up being crippled.
by Eben Calder on Jul 20, 2008 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
An artificial knee does not a cripple make
I agree with your comment, except for the line about him becoming a cripple for life.
Getting an artificial knee won’t make you a cripple. Sure there are things like knee boarding and playing pickup basketball that they really don’t want to you do on a 2nd knee, but you can still live essentially a normal life with one.
by tingeyga on Jul 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
Yes, but those things have a shelf-life. You need to get them replaced every so often, especially if you get one in your 20s. They are also extremely painful when they start to go. My grandfather had several artificial joints and they probably hastened his death. He got them late in life and had to have them replaced. Darius is a young man.
He should hang it up and teach his children to make better choices.
RipCity -- now, now ...
by Y5k on Jul 21, 2008 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding his son, Darius should focus on being able to play backcourt/driveway basketball against him when he is ten
Not so much fun if bone is rubbing on bone, or you are already on that artificial knee being talked about.
Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
by Norsktroll on Jul 21, 2008 8:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

by 




















