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Is Luol Deng better then Outlaw?

I've been sitting around this summer looking at our team, and also looking a the avaliable free agents for the summer of 2009, and to tell you the truth I dont see anybody out there that would really be a big help to this team.  However there is the possibility that Loul Deng could be a free agent since the only team with cap space left this summer is memphis and they are cutting cost and do not need a SF, so it looks like Deng might be signing a one year contract with the Bulls since the Bulls dont seem too interested in giving him the kind of contract that he wants.

To be truthful I have not seen him play that much, so I can only go off from what I have heard and what the stats tell me, but by looking at his stats he has been better then Outlaw in every category, is the same age, and has playoff experience.  From my view I think Deng is a better player considering his stats and the fact that he was gotten significant playing time with playoff teams while Outlaw other than last year could barely get 20 mins a game on last place teams.  The biggest factor in my mind is how good of a defender is Deng, since I really haven't seen him much I cant really know, but what I do know is that defense wins championships and its going to be key to have a good defender at the small forward position and I am just not sure Outlaw will be capable of doing that.  The one down side to Deng is that he is not a three point shooter while Outlaw is more then capable of hitting that shot.   My question to all of you is if Deng is avaliable do you think the Blazers should use there cap space and go after him which would also means having to let go of Outlaw?  If you have seen Deng play please give us your thoughts on him since almost all of us know what Outlaw brings to the table.

Poll
One important aspect to this debate is who will be better at the end of the 2008-2009 season. So who do you think will be better at the end of the 2008-2009 Season
Travis Outlaw
57 votes
Luol Deng
116 votes

173 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 35 comments

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What happened?

Wasn’t it Webster a couple of minutes ago? I had even replied in that thread….....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 12:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nevermind

I see what happened…......it was a different thread.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a webster fo gordon trade, which would be completly stupid to do. This is waiting for next summer and signing Deng, but if we sign him then there is no room for outlaw.

by ggassen85 on Jul 16, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The answer is Deng

He had a down season last year and was still better than Outlaw by pretty much any measure you could come up with.

Outlaw’s nice because he’s a really good player with a reasonable contract, but Deng’s the better player.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jul 16, 2008 1:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd do a straight up swap

Deng for Outlaw (or webster).

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would do neither as Outlaw has some intangebles

why are we offering either…goodness lay off #25

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 16, 2008 1:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We're not offering anyone

we’re not the GM. We’re just talking ideas here….....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes yes I know, its the nature of a sports blog

i was giving all a hard time. Clearly if we are going to win Multiple champs, we are gonna have to start getting major production soon from Marty and/or Trout as sf is even more important what w/ the dt’s la and oden will draw down low. We cant only rely on roy and Blake/serg/insertpg to shoot we need a reliable outside prescence (sp? yikes…) Neither is reliable enough for me.

-Sophia

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 16, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why will Oden and LMA draw Delirium Tremens in the paint?

Are they suffering from addictions the rest of us are unaware of?

WWSBD?

by nightbluefruit on Jul 16, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh hush

DOUBLE TEAMS u know what im talkin bout… :)

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 16, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dunking tantrums?

"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown

"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit

by ptwnblzr on Jul 17, 2008 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

I’m all for giving Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw one more year to own the Small Forward position. If they fill the roll this year, that is: they provide complimentary scoring, tough defense, and clear up any rebounds Oden & Aldridge let fall to the floor, then GREAT, we’ve found our long term answer at the Small Forward position…

But…

Let’s be honest here. Outlaw’s been in the league 5 years and he’s still doing left-handed dribbling drills in Mississippi. Webster has also shown flashes of brilliance (the Utah game comes to mind) but his game is still controlled by his first 3 shot attempts (when they go in- he’s Marty, when they clank, he’s a ghost).

How long of a leash do these players have?

"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jul 16, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dissillusionment sucks

i agree mostly tho I really was just giving everyone a hard time.

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 16, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

as long as oden is tall

"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown

"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit

by ptwnblzr on Jul 17, 2008 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deng

For Martell would be a steal,I value Travis slightly higher because of his crunch time gear but the largest hole in our roster is the lack of an sf who can play NBA level defense.Deng is not great but is considered above average and trading Martell at this point would help with the free agent situation next year.

by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 3:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

David Thorpe says Deng

I actually posed this question to David Thorpe on his ESPN chat this morning…

Harry Manback (Portland, OR): If things get dicey with Chicago and Deng, does it make sense for Portland to pursue him in a sign-and-trade, or do they need more of a distance shooter at the 3?

David Thorpe: (12:15 PM ET ) I can’t think of a better fit for both parties.

To me, it’s a no-brainer. However, Deng has very little leverage at this point, with everyone filling in their cap space. Is he going to take a one year offer from the Bulls and go unrestricted next year? It’s possible I guess. My only concern would be that what the Blazers might really need is a long-range bomber at the 3. Regardless, I think that Deng would represent a big talent upgrade over either Webster or Trout, now and in the future.

by Harry Manback on Jul 16, 2008 3:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not a good reference

Since David also said tonight the Blazers need to trade for Vince Carter.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 17, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deng/Outlaw

It’s Deng by a WIDE margin.
Not even close.
I do like Travis though.

This is Jack burton from the PorkChop Express and I'm talkin to whoever's out there.....

by Jack Burton on Jul 16, 2008 5:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We need range, not penetration.

After doing some YouTube research it appears that Deng is a strong 3 who gets to the rim. I think the Blazers need to make sure the man filling that 3 spot is an absolute bomber from behind the arc. With Oden, Roy and now Bayless providing “get to the rim at will” power to the squad, we need to keep the floor spread with a deep threat, and both Webster and Outlaw fill those shoes better than Deng would.

by sagebru5h on Jul 16, 2008 5:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Watching Youtube doesn't tell you

anything at all. According to YouTube, 99 percent of basketball is monster slam dunks, and the other 1 percent is blocks.

by howlingfantods on Jul 16, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need defense

At sf and Roy and Rudy aint that bad from long range and any coach with a sf who can score can run picks on Trout and Martell to his hearts content.

by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 6:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

deng is better

just because he went thru coach K’s grinder… hes a better basketball player.. a potential franchise player

if it can be conceived it can be achieved

by lyfefindsaway on Jul 16, 2008 7:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Webster is a SG!

There. I said it. We have one-and-a-half SFs, and that’s counting Batum as the half. Unless you count Roy, who can play anywhere (Go BRoy!).

It would be nice if Martell could have a great season. It’s possible. But it’s not likely. Frankly, I would move him if I could get value, because we are crowded with talent at the 2.

I would hate to see Outlaw go because I still think he has talent he hasn’t touched. If we are going to be the Odenators, and rule the league for a decade, we could use to solid at SF.

Nice posts, BlazerFan1! Personally, I hated to see Jones go. I understand it if it’s a sacrifice to insure time for these two. But since Webster’s not a SF but a slow 2-guard…

'77

by LaoTzu on Jul 16, 2008 7:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

that makes me wonder

(looking to mom with widie eyes)mommy, what position does rudy play? and why does he throw the ball at that glass an net thingy from so far away?

"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown

"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit

by ptwnblzr on Jul 17, 2008 4:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deng

Deng is a very good midrange shooter. He rarely pulls up for the 3-pointer (Bulls fans hope he develops the long range shot this offseason). He is an above average rebounder at the small forward position. He’s a good cutter, if anyone can get him the ball. He had a down seaon last year, but the year before he had a great shooting percentage and was very efficient offensively. I’ve never heard anyone complain about his defense, so I’m assuming that means he’s at least decent. The Bulls as a team were very good defensively until last year (when they sucked), and that was with Ben Gordon (known as a very bad defender) getting significant minutes. There really is no comparison between Deng and Outlaw as players, as Deng is a lot better.

Last summer, Deng was supposed to be developing a post game (because he played some power forward at Duke), but that never happened. A few years back there were rumors going around that he would play some shooting guard in order to cause matchup problems because of his size, but that never happened either.

Overall, Luol is a good player. On the Blazers, with Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Oden, Deng would be a great piece and would really put the Blazers in championship contention (if Oden turns out to be the great player everyone says he is).

However, as a Bulls fan, I would not trade Deng to the Blazers because they don’t really have anything that the Bulls would want (other than the “big 3,” which you guys would never trade). The Blazers and Bulls, when it comes to trading, are in similar situations because they both need to trade the pieces they have for something big. I really don’t see a trade happening between these two teams because the Bulls have too many good, young players already, and that’s what the Blazers would offer in a trade. One of the Bulls’ biggest problems right now is that they have too many players that need minutes at the same position. There just aren’t enough minutes to go around, which makes it unlikely that they’ll look to pick up more pieces. The only way that the Blazers could acquire Deng in a trade is if the Bulls decided that they wanted RLEC, which I don’t think you guys want to trade for a player like Deng (because you’d probably want someone better in return, and because another contract would be added in the trade, like Nocioni, who has a very bad contract).

by kite on Jul 16, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd give you RLEC

for Deng. Sign me up.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

RLEC for Deng is ok with me

You can have Sergio Rodriguez also

by tweener on Jul 16, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe even Joel Freeland

A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!

by Dheepan on Jul 16, 2008 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Deng a lot

And even though he didn’t have his scheduled break out season last year, he’s due any day now and I shall dutifully select him for my fantasy team come fall.

He’s got a good mid-range game like you say, but I’ve seen many Bulls fans complain that he settles for that shot too often.

To me, Deng seems to do a lot of little things well and knows HOW to play. I think he’ll be a great player, if he remains healthy.

However, I’ve seen many Bulls fans complain about his defense, and how he doesn’t always use his length to his advantage AND is too slow laterally to properly guard the good SFs of the league (and forget about guarding a SG). It won’t be so bad as long as he knows where to be on defense and learn how to use his body, and overall Chicago has always been a GREAT defensive team, but I have read many Bulls fans complain about Deng’s defense (over on Blog-a-Bull).

He doesn’t shoot 3’s yet, but I think he can learn it and would be a great, smart SF for us. It’d be purty sweet.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 17, 2008 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said

Defense is the key as Portland has many options on offense. Outlaw is not noted for defense but his Defense WIN shares were 7.6 last year to Deng’s 5.8 to support your observations.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 17, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blogabull guys are as unrealistically negative

about their team as our guys are unrealistically positive. Deng is a good to very good defender. The effort is there, he reads well, and he’s got plenty of quickness. He’s not a stopper, but he’s one of the better two way guys around.

by howlingfantods on Jul 18, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

SOLD!!

"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown

"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit

by ptwnblzr on Jul 17, 2008 5:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ive always liked Dang

he has the work ethic that has become cliche when discussing quality, and a lifetime(as in the ladies channel) movie story. Im a little hesitent about his efforts at negotiations, but suspect that gorden was hot talkin and Dang just got caught in the flo. I think I read somewhear that they have the same agent. Dont know if thats really true thoe. I would trade a true shooting forward for a 2 shooting forward any day.

ps.. I know its Deng, and I dont care.

"As long as Yao is in the league, Greg Oden will probably never start in an all-star game, because he doesn’t have 1 Billion people voting for him."
silkybrown

"Just so we're totally clear(, y)ou’re saying you want me to kill Yao, right?"
nightbluefruit

by ptwnblzr on Jul 17, 2008 5:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Outlaw is our man

Deng per 36 minutes: 17.0 points, 6.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.5 blocks, 47.9% FG, 36.4% 3FG

Outlaw per 36 minutes: 18.0 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.0 blocks, 43.2%FG, 39.6% 3FG

Certainly stats don’t tell the whole story but KP says we need shooters with Oden and LMA so there is not enough difference to pay the extra freight. Deng reportedly turned down 5 years and $50M last year. Outlaw ($4M/yr) can get his own shot and until that is made redundant we need him more.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 17, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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