A Bayless Comparison: Tony Parker
by PoliSam on Jul 16, 2008 12:09 PM PDT
Email
PrintThere has been a lot of discussion about how Bayless will fit into the Blazers offfense. It is clear that he is a prolific scoerer with a gift for penetrating and drawing fouls. He has not demonstrated, many have said, the skills or the instinct of a pure point guard (either in summer league or in college). Indeed, in one of the fan posts below Bayless has already been labeled a bust by scouts because the Blazers need a "distrubtor" at point guard: (Bayless a Bust).
Is that really true? Many people , including many astute observers on Blazersedge as well Kevin Pritchard, disagree. I also disagree and would like to provide some evidence to that effect by way of an analogy.
I see Bayless fulfilling the same role on the Blazers as Tony Parker plays for the Spurs. I do not think Parker and Bayless' skills and talent are identical, but I think they could serve a similar purpose for their teams. If you look at Parker's statistics (or watch the games) Parker is not the Spurs primary playmaker. Parker has averaged 16 points per game and between 5 and 6 assists over the course of his career. For most of his career, Parker has dribbled the ball up the court and made a simple pass to Duncan or Ginoboli and allowed them to work one-on-one or with each other. As he has matured, he has statred to make more plays in the half-court, but his primary function on the Spurs is to keep the defense honest, too punish opposing defenses for doubling Duncan or Giniboli. Parker puts pressure on defenses by being able to slash to the hoop and finish.
Keeping a defense honset is precisely what I would want out of a point guard playing with Oden, Roy, and Aldridge and is exactly what Jerrdy Bayless seems to be able to do. Teams are going to double Oden in the post, they are going to try to trap Roy off of pick and rolls, the more players on the floor that can make opposing teams pay for this strategy, the better. The fact that Bayless has the speed and the skill to get to the basket and draw fouls at a high rate, like Tony Parker, seems to make him a great fit for the Blazers.
The only way Bayless scoring prowess would be a problem is if he were to refuse to pass to Oden and Roy or were to refuse to follow the instructions of the coaching staff... I just don't see that happening, because if he did it, he wouldn't get any playing time and he'd look like a fool.. Even if he were "selfish" (which I don't think he is), he would learn to fulfill his role on this team out of his own self interest.
Granted, Tony Parker is a proven NBA starter and NBA finals MVP, while Bayless is a rookie, but am I crazy for seeing Bayless doing for the Blazers (in a few years) roughly what Parker has done for the Spurs?
49 comments
|
10 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You are 100% correct ... potentially
by blazerwizard on Jul 16, 2008 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Bayless has looked very much like Parker
You might say he’s been the Tony Parker of the Vegas Summer League.
What we need from our PG down the road is someone who can:
a) defend opposing PGs, especially the ultra-quick Parker/Paul types
b) help us out in the running game
c) in halfcourt situations, bring the ball up, hand it to Brandon and become a scorer
Bayless stands a legitimate chance of being that guy, and playing the Tony Parker role. I think its a legitimate “best case scenario” for Bayless to shoot for.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jul 16, 2008 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with "C"
I haven’t seen anything at all in summer league that suggests C could happen. Not to say it won’t, just that I’ve not seen any proof that it will.
WWSBD?
by nightbluefruit on Jul 16, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
agree
that list was what we need from our PG eventually. We don’t know if Bayless can be that guy yet, I’m just saying I think he has a realistic shot.
Boomshakalaka
Bayless has been playing the 2 in summer league
He seems a smart enough guy that if it’s his job to bring the ball up, and if he doesn’t have an easy move to the hoop, get it to Brandon and get open… he will do that.
Oh, and one other thing. Bayless has the potential to be a far better defender than Parker. While TP isn’t Steve Nash bad on defense, he’s not gonna win any all-defensive-team awards.
by EngineerScotty on Jul 16, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely
I see a little Tony Parker in Bayless. In fact here’s my list of players I feel that Bayless has borrowed bits and pieces of his game from. Not comparisons to overall game, but like I said, bits and pieces….....
- Tony Parker
- Brandon Roy
- Kevin Johnson
- Monta Ellis
- Jarret Jack
- Damon Stoudamire
I’m sure I could add to this list, but these are what are coming off the dome at the moment.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Jul 16, 2008 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Dare I say even a little iverson?
I think Damon is the closest that I can think of though.
How do I set my laser printer to stun?
He was so close to being on the list
I actually typed it and deleted it.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Spurs are a unique team
Each one of the big three, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli, are team oriented and unselfish. While Duncan is widely considered the de facto number one option, in actuality, Parker or Ginobli are often used as the 1st option based on matchups and the flow of the game. Parker is not always playing second fiddle, he was the Finals MVP. Bayless will be the 4th option on the Blazers I believe, which would negate any comparisons to Parker in terms of overall impact.
While it’s wishful thinking that Bayless could be like Parker on the Blazers, the personnel on the team will most likely limit that comparison. I see a more Jannero Pargo role than Tony Parker.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
Finals MVP
Was Parker really that outstanding in the Finals? I seem to remember thinking that there wasn’t a clear-cut MVP, so they just gave it to him because they were tired of giving it to Tim Duncan.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Batuuuuuuuum!
by rockingharder on Jul 16, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
they gave it to him...
... because he was doing a lot of the scoring. Their D was still anchored by Duncan and that was the #1 reason they won. Duncan deserved the MVP, but as per usual, they gave the award to the guy with the highest PPG.
Boomshakalaka
Parker is definitely becoming are more important option for the Spurs, but I think that’s a somewhata recent development. Certainly in the first title won by the Spurs with Parker, he was the third option, at best.
I could see Bayless in a Jannero Pargo like role for the next couple of years, but I’m hoping he’ll be a bit better than that eventually.
Actually he wasnt even a starter some of the time
Speedy Claxton was, along with Steve Smith and Stephen Jackson at the 2 and 3. Manu and Parker were still developing and were far from stars in 2003.
Gimmicks don't make dynasties
Good memory!
I vaguely recollect Parker having a much smaller role in 2003, but I couldn’t remember the details. Thanks. Could be similar to what Bayless does with the Blazers in his second year?? O, I know 2010 is a little early for the Blazers to compete for a championship, but I’d love to see it.
not quite
Parker started all 24 playoff games and played 33.9 mpg. Manu played 27.5 mpg. Smith and Claxton combined for zero starts, playing 7.3 and 13.6 mpg, respectively. The starting lineup was Parker, Jackson, Bowen, Duncan and Robinson, with Jackson as the #2 scoring option.
WarEaglePDX is correct that Manu and Parker were nowhere near the players they ended up becoming, but this is why its good to look things up.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2002/playoffs_stats.html
Boomshakalaka
Bayless reminds me of ...
Bayless reminds me of a more atheletic version of Jarret Jack. Very good at getting to the basket and drawing fouls, has a servicable jump shot but he seems so focused on getting to the rim that he forgets to look for open team mates. I think his role for this year will coming off the bench and giving this team some energy whenever we become a stagnant jump shooting team.
JRogero
Context
Maybe. I tend to think his focus on driving to the hoop has a lot to do with the fact that the guys guarding him in summer league can’t stop him and that his teammates are not great scoring options. Moreover, I just cannot imagine Bayless having that type of tunnel vision playing with players that are older and better than him… If he were a 10 year veteran coming over after being another team’s leading scorer I would be concerned about him not passing the ball, but in not as a rookie. As a rookie, in order to get on the floor he will need to show that he can find the open man. As a rookie, in order to not get a wedgie after practice, he’s gonna have to pass the ball.
Good point and who can he pass to that can make a shot in Summer league? Petko only.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Jul 17, 2008 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Intellegent post
JB,s real value for us will be to make them pay for double teaming Roy or the Bigs since Roy is the defacto point/distributer in the half court and in the long run will be a better defender than Parker.
by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 12:42 PM PDT reply actions
already is
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
oh correction i thought we were referring to roy...stupid!
lol
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
You weren't all wrong
Bayless shoots better free throws than Parker, 79%-72%
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Devin Harris
has always impressed me with his complete game and I think he would be a perfect fit with Roy and Rudy.If KP could pry him out of the swamp I would be as risk of overdosing on gloat.
by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 2:15 PM PDT reply actions
Nets have him locked away.
No chance we can get him. Nets are keeping him to help entice Lebron James to come to Brooklyn. They have done a good job rebuilding over there…
A far more intelligent comparison
than Kevin Johnson. It amazes me how one or two people make an odd comparison or comment and then a bunch of pretentious wannabe’s cling to it that have probably never seen KJ play outside of a highlight reel or NBATV Classic game.
I’m sorry I just don’t see how anyone can see a similarity between the two beyond the fact that they are both quick, can penetrate, hit a pull-up jumper, and score effectively.
That describes like 1,000 guards since KJ retired. To me their actual on-court presence is quite different. KJ could score 30 on any given night but he could also get 20 assists (his career high was 25!). He was a TRUE POINT GUARD that was also an amazing scorer (no that doesn’t make him a “combo guard”).
I don’t think you’ll ever see that out of our boy. And that’s fine with me. Assists are Roy’s job, and maybe Kopponen’s eventually. Bayless will provide the backcourt offensive punch when Brandon’s game is lagging or sitting on the bench. Rudy can do it too so the more the merrier.
Sorry if the post comes off as strong I just think it’s annoying when people make vain and superficial comparisons to players from the past without really understanding who they were.
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
I saw KJ many times
and you are right. He could really distribute due to his
unbelievable quickness. He could always break down
his man and get inside the D. He wasn’t the fancy
passer like Nash, but more like Stockton with lightining
in his shoes. Great player. Above average defender.
Porter posted him up !
It's GO time !
No comparison
was intended,my point is that I had my choice of pgs to plug into this crew Harris would be right up there with Paul and Deron.Sort of like dreaming if I could have any piano player in the world to back me up,would I want Bruce Hornsby or Chuck Levell?
by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 2:36 PM PDT reply actions
I'd take Chuck...
over Bruce any day of the week and probably Billy Powell (depending on style of music)
I am a Blues man
And Chuck is my man but Jerry Eubanks from the old Marshall Tucker is in third place
by southern oregon on Jul 16, 2008 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of..
The Marshall Tucker Band, they were just down there in your area. Did you catch the show? If so, how was it? Wish they would have come up here, would love to see them again!
No way No KJ
Kj was a great player when he stayed healthy, unlike JBay KJ couldn’t take a hit.KJ was almost always hurt and just take the pounding. JBay seems to thrive on contact!
One thing...
I have yet to see him drive hard to the hoop and still be able to find the open man, not even in collage. Seems like when he commits,it’s all the way. Hopefully that will come with time.
I was watching a playoff game, don't remember which one
and the analyst was saying that Joe Dumars vision for his starting backcourt of the future was playing two big combo guards side by side.
Joe D is the man and it seems as if KP is of the same page.
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Jul 17, 2008 12:05 AM PDT reply actions
And has four already!
Roy, Rudy, Petko and Bayless are all combo guards with size and skill. Look out league.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
If they are all good playmakers
And can equally make plays and score and are unselfish and at least 1 or 2 can guard a PG, I don’t see why it couldn’t work.
It’ll be odd, but cool, and history says an average PG alongside a good playmaking PG is the ‘proven’ way to go, but let’s say Bayless or Rudy prove to be decent playmakers who can bring the ball up under pressure and aren’t horrible at guarding PGs… why COULDN’T we do a two-combo guard lineup?
No odder than starting Pippen at PG.
It’s about being able to guard that PG, but perhaps even more importantly it’s about having at least two playmaker/ballhandlers on the floor at all times. If the enemy team can’t press us, we won’t be killed by their PG, then Roy alongside Rudy/Bayless would probably work nicely.
Whoever the other team’s PG is guarding is getting used, and when you double to help we got 4 other guys to kill you.
Mortimer
It's Summer League
I like the thrust of the comparison. I would also point out two things. What people haven’t seen is due to the game plan instituted by the Blazers, which reflects the lack of scoring options on the front line. They’ve been letting PetKo bring it up the floor much of the time because if he makes the team, it has to be at PG – and they want to see him play. That’s not Bayless’s fault. Bayless will make the team regardless, after all, so they’re emphasizing other things to accomodate their desire to look at Petko. Further, Bayless is the best scoring option on the team for Koponen. You can’t pass, if the players you are passing to, aren’t finishing. And when you have Batum shooting 1 for 8, such as in the second game, and no inside presence to dish the ball to, you have little choice save to try to finish the play yourself and take it to the hoop.
Bayless had this same dilemma thrust on him in college. He started at point. However, the starting SF was injured, and since he was best scoring option on the team, and Arizona’s third best guard was a PG, they moved him to the SG spot. The fact that Bayless was also the best distributor took second place to their need to put their best two guards on the floor, and their third option wasn’t much of scorer.
There’s not much a player can do with these summer league teams. The Blazers, outside of Batum, don’t have a single player on the team that they’ve drafted at the Center or PF spots, and Batum isn’t producing at all offensively. A few years ago, we had both Aldridge and Roy. But this year, it’s pretty much just the guards and a developmental player in Batum – and he’s not a scoring option.
Bayless can pass and dish it off. It’s just that this part of his game isn’t being emphasized in the summer leagues. Once we put him with the full line-up, he’ll settle into a more well rounded game.
Which brings us back to the Parket comparison. Bayless is a good dribbler, and will get better. He will clearly be able to bring it up the floor, pass it off, and then go into an offensive set. He can give it to Roy, and cut to the hoop, or he can flip it inside to Aldridge or Oden, either of which can then go back outside to the open man (as Duncan often does) when the play develops. He’s a good pick and roll executor, and his post up jumper will work well over many of the PG’s in the league. Further, when he slashes to the hoop, it’s going to create mismatches inside.
Mac and KP have already talked about some of this. The issue of third or 4th scoring option is also a little over-stated. It’s not the option, after all, as much as the opportunity that dictates who takes the shot. Bayless will be moving those quick feet to get open, so he’ll get plenty of touches, regardless of how many touches Oden, Roy or Aldridge get. Every position needs production. The very fact that teams typically average 90 to 100 points per game, whereas their leading players typically pick up 15-25 – averaging around 20, tells us that. Even if Roy, Aldridge and Oden average 50 -60 points per game, that still leaves 40 for the other players. And Bayless could get 15 or so of those.
All great points
A basic point I was trying to get at in my original post was this: I concede that Bayless probably will not be a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd type of point guard, but he can still be a very effective 1 with the Blazers, just as Parker has been a very effective point guard for San Antonio, even though he does not have quite the court vision or playmaking skills of a classic distributing point guard.
I heartily concur...
.................................... And Parker has done very well with his somewhat limited game, thank you very much…
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
I like Parker
Excellent comparison imo.
i’ve liked TP for a while and thought he’d be a good fit for the Blazers if KP could get him. It’s not about a pure pg role, but opportunities and the flow of the game as many have stated. How many assists the team makes with a certain group on the floor is a better indicator to me, that shows ball movement and finding the open shooter, rather than one guys stats.
Interesting comparison
The thing is, Parker is going to be way ahead of Bayless on the offensive end, perhaps always will be. But Bayless is going to be a much better defender, I think.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
I dunno man...
Marko Jaric is taller and might have longer arms…
Plus, I haven’t seen Bayless’s girliepal yet so Marko might have him beat there as well.
Bayless beats Marko in the all-important eyes-not-too-small-for-his-head-and-too-close-together-category, and history shows that ALL of the great combo-esque PGs have eyes that fit the size of their head and are not too close together.
Jaric’s height and reach have been his biggest attributes that have led to his allstar career. It’s way too early to think Bayless can be anywhere close to that good…
Mortimer
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
