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Chips? What Chips?

When does Kevin Pritchard use his chips? And what chips does he really have to use?

 

First off, let’s pose a threshold question:  Does KP truly want to add a veteran presence?  He says he does, but the facts and the passage of time are starting to argue against this proposition.  James Jones, one of the top 3-point artists in the league, was a vet, and a good guy, to boot, and he is now gone to a team that gave him just $1.5 million a year more than the Blazers were paying (and keep in mind that KP pays $3 million in cash every year just to take a chance on a low-first-round draft choice).

 

The more time that goes by, the more one gets the feeling Pritchard just might believe we are gradually evolving our own veteran presence in the form of Roy and Aldridge. (Plus, there are Pryzbilla – a hard-nosed vet if ever there was one - and Blake.) And another vet, a really good one, would be expensive.  Passing the threshold, then – and perhaps we shouldn’t, perhaps the whole story really ends right here – what chips are available for Pritchard to acquire a championship missing link?

 

Behind Door #1 sits Raef LaFrentz’s $13-million contract expiring next Spring. I can’t count high enough to tabulate the number of times Blazers Edge bloggers have cavalierly placed this asset onto the hypothetical trading block. But is this really a usable trading chip?  Again, facts and time say no.  Once one of the most financially extravagant teams in the league, the Blazers have put a lot of effort into restructuring player salary. There is an overriding goal:  Generate enough money and “cap space” to give Roy, Aldridge, and Oden big raises in the next 2 to 3 years, and hopefully significant salary increases, as well, to one or two other young guys that turn out great. For R-A-O alone, you’ll probably (again, we can only hope!) have to give them raises totaling about $30 million a year (I’m rounding here) above the amounts in the final years of their rookie contracts.

 

Which brings us to the crucial number in this whole analysis. It is NOT the salary cap (about $59 million); it’s the LUXURY TAX threshold of about $70 million. You have to believe Allen, Pritchard and Partners, LLC, don’t want to go above that level again and start paying 2-for-1 on marginal salaries. And this, in turn, brings us to the root of the problem:  Assuming the LaFrentz, Francis and Miles contracts ALL come off the books next spring, all of the other existing player contracts project out to about $40 million (also rounded). Quite clearly, $40 existing + $30 raises take us right to the $70 luxury tax level. In other words, we need Raef’s money for the guys in house. We can’t spend it twice, so that means Raef’s contract can’t be dealt. If not, what else can?

 

Obviously, this brings us to Door #2:  Existing talent to trade. Oops!  We’re told R-A-O are off limits.  Well, that leaves all the “riff raff” (pardon the expression) future-potential guys, who probably aren’t valued as highly around the league as we Blazer bloggers think they are.  Oh, yes!  There’s a couple of vets – the kind of guys KP says we need to get, not trade away.  So, yeah, we could deal Pryzbilla. But Pryz is a vet, and even more important, he’s a vet with a mean streak (in addition to being an all around worthy fellow – i.e., a person of “great character”.)  True, a lot of teams need a decent veteran center. But we don’t yet really know for sure if Oden will avoid further injury or, if he does, whether he will foul out of half the games he plays. So you can’t let Pryz go. (For that matter, you can’t let Raef go for the same reasons – to commit fouls #13 to 18 next year at the 5 post, and to back up two injury-prone centers.)

 

That leaves Door #3 -- draft picks.  Sorry, there’s very little left behind Door #3 because we’re about to run out of worthy draft picks. For starters, you can ignore second-round picks for big-time trading – about all they’re good for is more second rounders. So now to the crux of Door #3. First, we have the B team that we just drafted, Bayless and Batoum; now, that’s a thought – although we then lose our “point guard of the future”. Second, the 2009 draft is likely to be (at least, one can hope) the last one in which the Blazers will have any kind of a reasonable, though depreciating, first-round selection – meaning it’s the last one KP can deal that has anything close to decent value.

 

But we all know KP LOVES to wheel and deal in the draft. The question is, Can he bring himself to give up next year’s wheeling and dealing to, instead, use our last semi-valuable #1 pick to help us acquire a good player -- hopefully sooner rather than later -- knowing he won’t then have any draft-day fun for the rest of his life?  This will be a wonderful test of Pritchard’s flexibility – to give up the favorite part of his job resume (and a creative task at which he is exceedingly brilliant) to finish off the rebuilding of this team. If he doesn’t, well, come next summer you can take draft picks off the trade market, too, for Door #3 will then conceal . . . nothing.

 

Conclusion:  With positions #2, 4, and 5 covered, our obvious “holes” (such as they are) are at point and small forward. Alas, there isn’t much quality in the available point-guard market around the league these days. There is, however, a number of very talented – and available - forwards that can slot in at the 3, especially if you’re willing to make some “culture” and “character” allowances. Examples include Marion and Artest, plus Josh Smith in the restricted free agent sector, just for starters.  The best assets we have to deal are our “overvalued” young guys, the BB ’08 draft twins, the fading ‘09 #1 pick, and anything else we can find via a three-way deal. Alas, as we saw with Jared Jack on draft day ‘08, one of our top young guys was barely able to move us from #13 to #11 in the draft – not exactly a quantum leap.  In the balance, then, while the value of our draft picks is rapidly dwindling, the good news is that for a very short window of time there is still some value here, and there is a modest amount, although not a great deal, of trade value in our young players.

 

All of which means time and money is running out for Pritchard to make a major trade to help this team.  Will KP use his dwindling stockpile of tradable assets to get a needed vet?  Or is the whole “we’d like to get some veteran presence” thing now a myth?  One thought: Despite his draft-day brilliance, KP has yet to make a trade move, salary dumping aside, of any significance in his three-year GM reign. Here’s hoping he can find his new groove. He’ll need it, because the old groove is running out of time.

 

 

 

 

9 recs  |  Comment 116 comments

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This sentence puzzles me:

Despite his draft-day brilliance, KP has yet to make a trade move, salary dumping aside, of any significance in his three-year GM reign.

????

Winning is everything.

by MT Suit on Jul 14, 2008 10:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

To clarify

I am referring to the absence of any trade that brings a major veteran player to the team. Thank you for the comment.

by blazerwizard on Jul 14, 2008 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Why would we need a veteran? Veterans are for when you’re challenging for a title. When you’re trying to get back into the running, you need young talent. If you want to trade for someone who’s going to be gone or ineffective in a few years, be my guest.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 14, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well..

I think veterans are of use on younger teams as far as leadership, example-setting, tricks-of-the-trade, etc., are concerned.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that why you have coaches?

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 15, 2008 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh..

Are you really suggesting that the qualities of having an older, wiser player to show the young’ns the ropes should be transferred to a coach? I don’t think Rajon benefited nearly as much from Doc’s inspiration as he did from KG & co.’s, for instance.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the qualities that you listed.

Are all covered by coaches too.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 15, 2008 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh.. (again)

I’m the oldest in my family, but I know a LOT of people who looked up to their older brothers and found confidence and guidance from them that their relationship with their father didn’t really approach (for obvious reasons, like think of a ‘sex talk’ with one’s father as opposed to one’s brother).

I know professional teams often compare themselves to families, and I can see some social similarities there. I think of the coaches as kind of the fathers of the family, and you’d be hard-pressed to convince me that, with the huge change in lifestyle, living situations, professionalism, media responsibilities, fame, fortune, etc., etc., that teenager (!) Jerryd Bayless would be equally comfortable looking to Larry Brown for advice on what his new identity means as he would be seeking it from, say, Chauncey Billups?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but

our coach isn’t Larry Brown, it’s Nate McMillan, a top class PG.

And we also have Maurice Lucas.

When you’ve got those guys, the need for vets on the team is lessened.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 15, 2008 3:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

It’s the difference (as 12sharks intoned above) between having an awesome dad and an awesome older brother. One will guide you, but the other will show you how to smoke a cigarette so you don’t screw up and cough in front of all your friends.

Maybe that was a bad example, but the point remains the same.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jul 15, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't wanna talk to Dad bout everything

You get one of the Blazer dancers knocked up, who do you talk to? Nate? KP? Hell no.

You go to Raef, who runs a free clinic out of his basement.

OR, when you have a question, a problem, it’s not good to go to Dad most of the time. You go to a trusted friend or older brother. Vets have lots of benefits that aren’t found in the stats, and coaches will most likely be seperate from the team in those personal-life type stuffs. Not all, but most.

Even though Nate has taken part in the personal lives of his players in a good way, you still probably can’t go to him about EVERYTHING. You want playing time from him and his respect, and that inhibits what you would talk about with the guy.

Do you go to your BOSS about your personal life?

Not to say Vets are only good for personal life stuff, but they offer many varied points of view only NBA experience can teach ya, and the advice won’t be coming from a ‘authority figure’ like KP or Nate. The Vet would be one of you, only older.

That said, I don’t think there was a vet who would unselfishly accept a role on the team and sit on the bench while giving sage advice who was available for free (who would we wanna trade for this type of dude, if this dude existed?).

But it’d be nice if we could get one.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 15, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

and we haven’t even touched on all the disgustingly good things a crafty vet like Bruce Bown could teach these kids.. great stuff like situation your foot under a jump-shooter’s landing spot, lying on the floor, the finer points of kicking your opponent in the gonads, etc. There’s that whole side of it, as well.

I wouldn’t want to trade for Bill Russell (though I’m sure he’d have some great stories to tell), but to pull in an experienced, approachable dude who can show these kids the ropes both on and off the court would be a benefit, I’m pretty sure.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Morty's on fire !

Raef is a nice insurance plan for an injury to
either C and an all around good guy. When he came in
last year, he worked hard, rebounded and blocked some
shots. We know he can shoot and score, but it’s always
RLEC ! Remember vets help the CULTURE !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Jul 16, 2008 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...but...

What about COINCAST?? DOES it still SUCK !!

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Batuuuuuuuum!

by rockingharder on Jul 16, 2008 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, well

I didn’t say we don’t need vets at all, I said having those two coaches covers some of it.

We have Raef, Joel, and Steve. And Brandon is almost like a vet, now.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All in all, and in hindsight, I think it would have been

better if I had followed my father’s advice rather than my brother’s.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jul 17, 2008 5:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah the Myth of Veteran Tricks

Age does not equal wisdom. There are good veterans who offer leadership and set a good example. There are just as many veterans who do not. Similarly, there are many young players who are immature and need leadership. And then there just as many who do not. The Blazers already have a great NBA point guard who’s been in the league for years and knows all the veteran tricks of the trade and has demonstrated great leadership skills and mentoring ability. His name is Nate McMillan.

by Jumbo on Jul 16, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

They always talk about the “calming influence.” Talk about junk! Vets with no championship experience go to championship teams to fill roles. Vets with championship experience retire.

When the Blazers make the playoffs, everyone is going to be nervous as hell. They are freaking seven game series, so they have time to adjust. The whole vet thing is overrated. There are vets on the team now, and you’re not going to find an available vet that is better than the big three.

Seriously, what did Michel Jordan’s veteran experience do for the Wizards?

"France is a place where the money falls apart in your hands but you can't tear the toilet paper" - Billy Wilder

by tominhawaii on Jul 16, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tom is absolutely right, as usual..

...................................................... Heck, I had to repeat my wedding night three times before I got it right.

"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"

by timbo on Jul 16, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got 'em to redecorate the locker room?

Seriously, what did Michel Jordan’s veteran experience do for the Wizards?

"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"

by timbo on Jul 16, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about getting rid of crappy vets?

That’s just as important. You can’t do “out with the old, in with the new” without dropping the old.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Batuuuuuuuum!

by rockingharder on Jul 14, 2008 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tried making that point a while ago. Doesn't go well.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Jul 16, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all in the marketing...

POPPIN’ FRESH IS ALL THE “VETERAN LEADERSHIP” THIS CREW NEEDS.

That and the fear of Bayless going postal…

"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"

by timbo on Jul 16, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Veterans are not needed yet

Hungry veterans who can ball might be but I agree that it takes another year before that is likely. However, there is plenty of time before February to still pull out a trade if the team’s progress warrants that then.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Totally agree

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 15, 2008 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

You’re first sentence was exactly what I was thinking

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jul 15, 2008 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

We were not over the tax cap this year, we were under it by about 2 million and will recieve a check from the league as a thank you. I don’t have the link, but ESPN reported the 3 or 4 teams that had to pay the tax and the Blazers were not one of them.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 15, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

D

Perfectly said my friend.

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 15, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love rebuttals

Tom told me he just likes the butt part of it.

How do I set my laser printer to stun?

by prezofdeath on Jul 15, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec

"France is a place where the money falls apart in your hands but you can't tear the toilet paper" - Billy Wilder

by tominhawaii on Jul 15, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you trade RLEC

don’t you have to take back the same amount in salary? So trading Reaf seems like a non starter unless some unbelievable opportunity comes along – some Pau Gasol for nothing deal – comes along.

by raoulduke on Jul 15, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You package RLEC

With, say, a Bayless or a Sergio or a PetKop or an Outlaw or a Webster, WHOEVER, and you got the salary to get a good player back and offer youth plus expiring deal for the other team.

Not sure what specific player or team this would work for, but stuff pops up during the season all the time.

If we’re lucky enough to get a Pau Gasol type for free, just RLEC, then that’s great… but it’ll likely be part of a package, if at all.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 15, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but

you are still taking back equivalent salary. So unless it’s a complete deal of a lifetime, I have a hard time imaginging taking on that salary this year, when it can just be dumped in the spring.

by raoulduke on Jul 15, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if it's a good player?

Unless you’re worried about the salary cap and luxury tax (which we shouldn’t be), getting an actual missing piece type player (if possible) is plan A for the RLEC-plus-good-youth situation, I would think.

Obviously it has to be a really sweet deal, because it eats up most of our cap space, but we’re looking at maybe 25 million depending on who we renounce, so we could still play in free agency even if we get back equal salary in a RLEC deal.

Not saying that is LIKELY, or even that I think it will happen, but it’s possible.

I mean, yeah, we take back equivalent salary, but a Pau Gasol type deal happens almost every year. There is not much chance it’ll be a dude who fits us (Allen Iverson was the previous year’s Gasol type deal), but it could, and that’s more gooder than cap savings depending on what we could get next offseason.

But yeah, it’d have to be a sweet deal, because the flexibility RLEC’s expiring deal offers for trades (both in-season and off) is something they wanna hold on to. But I think ultimately, one way or another, we’re filling in his contract hole with someone who isn’t on our roster currently and it won’t simply be used to be able to better afford our current players.

Plan A is to pay SOMEONE that money, as long as it’s the right player. It’s our last window to add someone ‘for free’ who can really help us, as afterwards we’re paying out the ear for our current players and would have to trade one of them to get someone who is GREAT.

So equivalent salary is fine, and just taking the cap savings is prolly plan C. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re advocating really, but I doubt we don’t do SUMTHIN’ with the RLEC, or take back/take on equal salary next summer. We’re gonna be paying someone that money.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 15, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I'm not really advocating either position, really

Just saying that I think it more likely that his contract will be allowed to expire than a trade will be made, but I’m not the GM…

by raoulduke on Jul 15, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

KP has said he has a specific player in mind

and he has also said the cap space can be used to take a veteran for nothing (ala Marcus Camby) from a team that needs to start over. Either way we hold Raef until the draft or free agency next year. Or, as you say, an unbelievable deal comes through.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, a specific player

and if we do get someone, he’ll say, “This was the guy I wanted all along.”

Even if there are 15 specific players that he’s considering.

Just like if Charlotte had taken Bayless, and DJ had fallen to Indiana, he would have said, “DJ is the best pure PG, the guy we had our eyes on all along.”

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everything I was going to say

Only said a lot more clearly and eloquently.

by sixth on Jul 15, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

KP traded Z-Bo. Now he cant even be traded for a 2nd rounder.

by RipCity on Jul 15, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to agree with Dheepan

The post did make me think though.

But Paul Allen is not your average owner. I don’t think that the Lux tax concerns him much. If the team wasn’t showing progress, maybe. I think that he sees and agrees with Pritchard’s plan, and will pay plenty to make it happen.

by parkinglotj on Jul 15, 2008 12:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Paul Allen is on record re: luxury tax

He will pay it if we are in the final four of the conference and not if not. Remember the “broken economic model” statements as well. Paul does not need the money but the competition among the big guys (billionaires) tends to be who can increase or who can get fame and attention or both. Nobody likes to hemorrhage money.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't quote him from the time when he and the team were getting pummeled...

............................................ he’s having big fun now. Things have changed.

"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"

by timbo on Jul 16, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe right but we were still in the playoffs then

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why you're wrong

1. The RLEC
The current Blazers position on RLEC is that we’ll trade Raef if we get something good enough out of it, but if not, we’ll take the cap space. It’s a win-win situation. The reason why we’re not likely to trade the contract is that there aren’t a lot of players who are on the trading block who would be a good fit. In addition, the luxury tax is almost a necessity if you want to compete in the league. Both of the teams that made it to the finals this year were over the tax. You have to choose between luxury tax and winning. And trust me, Paul Allen has enough money to weather the luxury tax.

2. Of course, RAO are off limits. But almost everyone else can be traded. And I think you’re underestimating the value of some of our players on the trade market. Outlaw, Webster, Fernández, and Frye are all likely to be very good assets in a trade, especially to teams looking for young talent. Whether we would trade those players is a different matter. (And Raef isn’t needed as a third-string center. Both Pryz and GO will not foul out at the same time. Not possible. And Aldridge and Frye are both capable of filling in when Pryz and GO are out.)
3. KP has a lot of second round picks to package together along with a first rounder and some bench players to do something in the draft if he wants to. And he’s not just trading just to trade; he has consistently improved our roster through his trades.
4. As far as the 1 goes, we just improved at least at the backup with Bayless. And the one isn’t that important for winning championships. Boston won with Rondo, who can’t make a shot to save his life.
5. Your examples at the three for who we could trade for are awful. None of the players are good fits with our character or “culture.” What’s more, Marion is too old and Artest is getting there. All of them would take away too many shots from RAO. And, most importantly, they’d all too overpayed to make sense. We’re fine with Travis and Martell, who both are looking like they’ll be at least suitable SF’s.
6. Jarrett Jack wasn’t the exchange. Essentially we used the #13 pick to upgrade Jarrett and McBob.
7. Actually, a quantum leap isn’t very large. It’s rather insignificant.
8. KP’s made tons of trades for what we needed: young talent.

Sorry if that was overly critical but people like you get under my skin.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 15, 2008 12:15 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

"people like you get under my skin."

#5

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Batuuuuuuuum!

by rockingharder on Jul 15, 2008 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I mean to say is

posts like these get under my skin. Posts that only say negative things.

Obviously I just made things worse by trying to apologize.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jul 15, 2008 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Response to #1 and #5..

Doesn’t this seem like kind of an ‘ivory tower’ mindset? I think having Josh Smith would give us a VERY strong set of four out of five starters, for instance. Considering how often I hear people people shoot down potential trade and free agency targets for not “fitting in with our culture” (and personally, I think those statements should include the words “my”, “take” and “on” between “with” and “our”), I believe I’ve yet to see a single response in the positive, a “yeah, he’d be great for our culture”. Granted, I’m not advocating bringing Sheed back and having a Ben Wallace/Ron Artest cage match at halftime, but I think that when BEdgers nix a player for not making the grade personality-wise it can border on xenophobia, or at least come off looking as a mighty tall judgment of someone’s character one’s probably never met.

Also, when people talk about RLEC and cap space, etc., they always seem to say that, of those currently available, “no one’s a good fit”, or everyone’s “awful” (I know, you were just talking about those listed above, but check some comments here to see what I’m talking about). When do you see this changing? One year? Two? Supposing the aforementioned Josh Smith fell into our laps, who are we really targeting in the next couple years who will be such a better “fit”? I’m really not trying to talk tough, I’m really interested in your opinion.

It seems like everyone’s been very grouchy re: trade talk lately (and understandably so), but taking it out on this year’s crop of available players isn’t really accomplishing much. I suppose I’m just complaining about complaining, but here it is, anyway, for what it’s worth.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Rec'd

This is great stuff. Blazer fans seem really down on players from other teams. It seems like David Lee, Tayshaun Prince, and Devin Harris (sometimes) are the only players people get excited about.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Jul 15, 2008 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A big reason for that

is that a lot of players from other teams either don’t seem to have the potential we hope and think our guys have, they have characther issues, or they are way overpaid.

When you are looking for a good player, who has high character, is coachable, and has a very reasonable contract, they are hard to come by. We are very fortunate to be in the situation we are in, because we currently have several.

RLEC is a nice chip to have because it is in fact a win-win. You saw what a few draft picks and Kwame Brown brought the losers in Purple and Gold. Not that people are going to give away their players like that on a regular basis, but it does give us some options.

I must comment on your Jarrett Jack comment. KP did what he needed to do to get the guy he wanted to get. Many people on this site gave Jack more credit than I thought he deserved…they praised his heart, they praised his hustle, they praised his locker room presence. In the meantime, they forgot to examine his point gurad play. That being said though, Jack still had some value. Indiana did good for themselves by getting who they wanted all along in Rush, and picked up two assets along the way. However you want to look at it, I say it doesn’t really matter at this point. Bayless is going to make people forget about Jarrett Jack real quick. We got a top 5 pick talent for our #13 and a couple of very average players. I’d do that deal 7 days a week.

Can I buy you a fish sandwich?

by silkybrown on Jul 15, 2008 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone gave Jack that much credit

He wasn’t a good fit here and it seems to be unanimous that we got the better end of the deal, or at least the better player, and he hasn’t even played a game. That doesn’t say much for Jack.

by einman77 on Jul 16, 2008 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps we are homers?

I am not sure Indiana did not get the better end of the deal. It will take three years to assess better how this really worked out but people like to think we are dominating every trade. To the contrary, KP has a gift for understanding other teams and their needs and providing the pieces to help them meet those needs while making our team better.

So it does not make Jack a bad player. The perception of Jerryd is all good so far but he has not played a game and while we all hope we got the better player we simply don’t know yet. Indiana got a strong backup point guard who will double as a SG at times and can match up with Billups in their division. They also got Rush who is more ready to play NBA ball than anyone in the draft (imo). Indiana needed to jump forward and traded potential for production. The also escaped Diogu’s contract as he was under-utilized there. Would they make that trade today? Yes, I believe they would indeed. Jack will do well in Indiana.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yup

Not every team has time to develop 19 year old point guard, especially when they just traded for a young point guard. The whole point in drafting the best player available is so that you make someone give you something to get that player and still get a player in the draft or trade to fill your needs.

If New Orleans had the second pick in the draft and Michael Beasley was the first pick, who do you think New Orleans would have drafted?

"France is a place where the money falls apart in your hands but you can't tear the toilet paper" - Billy Wilder

by tominhawaii on Jul 16, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think in a few years

Once we KNOW, and the league KNOWS, that this is ROY/ODEN/LMA’s team, then we can handle trading for a guy who has been a headcase in the past, like Josh Smith.

And since you used Josh as an example, he has had quite a few instances in his short career of battling with coaches, teammates, flipped off fans, shows up late, and while on the court he is a help-side monster and is maybe the most athletic player in the league, but he takes a lot of bad shots and kinda plays for himself.

He wants to be a star. Will he be able to be a star in Portland, with R/A/O?

I know Blazer fans are way too gunshy about ‘character’ stuff, but in a lot of cases it’s for a decent reason. Personally, I don’t want someone who isn’t coachable (like Josh Smith has been) or known for having a bad attitude, while this VERY young team is still finding it’s way. I don’t think this team is solidified enough to adequately handle the run-of-the-mill annoying-not-bad apples yet.

Someone like Josh Howard might not qualify for the Blazers now because of the pot thing, but I find stuff like that to not be a big deal, while the attitude stuff is a deal breaker for me.

For now.

Josh Smith is just a kid, but he’s still pretty immature and while extremely talented I dunno if he’d fit us as a SF (just as an example).

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 15, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

good point

I think adding a guy in his early-mid 20s who thinks he can “be the man” is a bad idea. We really should be in the market for a guy in his late 20s who already went through that phase of his career and now knows his role in the league a bit more and is ready to accept it.

Not saying we aren’t talking about a high quality starter – we are. Just one that knows their role is the 3rd/4th option and they aren’t hungry to prove they are the #1 guy.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jul 15, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quantum leaps

dont have to be insignificant. Depends on the system and what parameters you are talking about.

The quanta in quantum just refers to things being discrete, i.e. (I am never sure if I use i.e. correctly.) you have something you are measuring and it only takes on the values 1,2,3,...n but never and numbers between them; whatever you are measuring is said to be quantized, but that does not tell you about its relative size or importance (whatever that means.)

I blame the show “Quantum Leap” for misconceptions surrounding the word quantum

NERDS!

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 15, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i.e.

Is an abbreviation of the Latin “id est”, which translates as “that is”. So, use it wherever you’d apply “that is”, e.g. Darius Miles is a broken man, i.e. injured.

(e.g. is an abbreviation of “exempli gratia” and is used to introduce examples, like above. Use i.e. to elaborate or refine what you’re already saying.

I might be wrong, though.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 15, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what my fuzzy memory remembers

e.g. is for examples while I use i.e. for clarification

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 15, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can you question yourself there

You busted out the Latin. No one can argue with the Latin!

by einman77 on Jul 16, 2008 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because there are those on this site who know the Latin. I pretend to be one of them. The reality is that I haven’t used it in two years now, and it has gotten rusty. But as far as I can remember, everything seems to be spot on.

On the plus side, (and off topic) it’s nice to have a little down time to check up on the Bedge.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23

by T Darkstar on Jul 16, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Imay atinlay ucksay

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jul 16, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tummy troubles, T?

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not any more! (hic)

Or is that (haec) or (hoc)? Too much Latin/English punnery going on here for me not to be the instigator, I suppose.

I really shouldn’t type things like this while chaperoning at a youth convention. I really shouldn’t even be here. The first step is to admit I have a problem.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23

by T Darkstar on Jul 17, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless they both play in summer league...

Both Pryz and GO will not foul out at the same time. Not possible.

"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"

by timbo on Jul 16, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

People are starting to over think.

The team is fine as is. All these reporters are constantly looking for any sign from Pritchard that he may be considering making a move. I think KP thinks about making moves a lot because he is a GM and that’s his job. Just because he makes a comment doesn’t mean he doesn’t already think things are fine the way they are. He’s just saying it’s a possibility if a team comes running with a offer too good to refuse.

All this speculation about the team is just that, speculation. The truth is Bayless and even Koponen will probably be added to the team. Oden will be back, and Fernandez will fly in for training camp. They will practice for a few weeks, play some preseason games and then we’re at opening night.

by BRoyInThe4th on Jul 15, 2008 6:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Did anybody catch the comment KP made yesterday in Vegas

That he is not on the phone trading because the league offices are closed? Hilarious!

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody has yet to refute his intro argument on Jones

I think that was a pretty valid point: “James Jones, one of the top 3-point artists in the league, was a vet, and a good guy, to boot, and he is now gone to a team that gave him just $1.5 million a year more than the Blazers were paying (and keep in mind that KP pays $3 million in cash every year just to take a chance on a low-first-round draft choice).”

Made me think a little because three point geniuses don’t grow on trees in every draft, and seeing this comparison he would have definitely been affordable on a roster where we really need to spread the floor, albeit somewhat overpaid.

The “expiring contracts” argument was less convincing, cause there has been no statement Allen wants to avoid luxury tax in the future and cap space at least gives you options. Options to (a) just re-sign whatever guys we want to keep which as stated is important on its own, (b) sign one of the oft discussed free agent, (c) use it in a trade for a vet at the February deadline, and/or (d) absorb contracts other teams want to shed e.g. in a three-team trade (see Seattle/Memphis/Minny) to be used later.

Using all chips we imagine we have or not, I still think that 2009 will be a year of quite some changes on the Blazers roster, seeing a few beloved guys go and exiting new ones come in to more or less complete the roster of our fantasies.

Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Jul 15, 2008 7:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion

all the blazers need is like 2 years of aging and it will be the roster of your dreams.

by 50backflips on Jul 15, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Jones was let go b/c he most likely said hands down he wants to go to Miami

he was a gerat 3 pt shooter but struggled obviously when he was injured, which was often last year. He was huge for us but understandeably not worth 25 mil or whatever he finally signed for. All in all i think his plan the entire time was to get back to Miami…his home and where he is from.

-Sophia

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jul 15, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In addition

James Jones’ knee was never diagnosed so he was riskier than presented in the original post.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jul 15, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Jones was made expendable

by Mr. Webster. It’s very true that top 3-pt specialists are rare; yet we have a second on ebeing groomed. Granted Martell is not as good as Jones is at this point in time, but Martell has shown potential at much more than being just a 3pt. specialist. KP made a choice between keeping Jones and abondon Martell or keep grooming Martell and let Jones walk. Obviously, the team opted with latter choice.

Redundancy in players (skills) is a nice luxury but not always the best way to maintain team chemistry.

by NWfan on Jul 15, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll go with that

Jones fate seemed to be sealed. It’s not like he was traded, we just couldn’t justify working out a long term deal. Martell was a big reason why, and I would agree that I would rather keep Martell aboard than Jones. Good point.

by einman77 on Jul 16, 2008 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones said

at the start of the year that Martell was the future here, and he wasn’t here to fight that. He taught Martell a lot, Martell learned it, and James went home and got well-paid to do so. Thanks, James, and best of luck to you.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He taught Martell a lot, Martell learned it..

Looks like vets might come in handy, after all.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jul 17, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good grief!

I never said they didn’t. Really, I didn’t say that. I said that having the coaches we have provides some of the things vets provide. That’s all.

If our championship window was expected to start this year, we’d need a couple more vets. Since it is likely not opening for a couple of years, by then we’ll already have several, and may not need any more.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I totally agree that JJones was a good veteran presence

and shooter, I was fine with letting him go. It seems like it’s time for Web/Trout to sink or swim at the 3. Giving Jones minutes there slows that process this year (though I think it was probably helpful for them last year).

by Montavilla Steve on Jul 15, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Jones needed to go

to create minutes for Outlaw, Webster, and Rudy. Matching Miami’s offer would have added more payroll while creating a bigger minutes headache. Jones might arguably be “better” than those 3, but if so it’s only a marginal improvement. If those guys can’t get it done this year, we’ll probably go after a veteran 3 at the deadline or next summer.

by Dave R on Jul 15, 2008 10:17 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Jinx

12345678910! You owe me a coke!

by Montavilla Steve on Jul 15, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok,

maybe not exactly a jinx (you were alot earlier on the draw). But I still want a coke from someone…

by Montavilla Steve on Jul 15, 2008 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might ask Pip

He seems very accommodating and generous.

by Dave R on Jul 15, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patience has been killed in modern sports

With the creation of a young, and incredibly talented trio that the Blazers have, there is no reason at all to make any moves for the upcoming season. The roster may not be a championship contender, but as one of the youngest and most inexperienced teams in the league, I doubt that playing for a title is the primary goal for this roster. They may say that to the media, but getting the playoffs and adding some experience to this team is what’s truly needed.

There have been so many players coming and going from this team, championship teams know when to stand pat with their roster. So, while the team may not win a title this year, you have to see what this current group is capable of. After this season, you will have a good idea of what Bayless, Rudy, and Oden are all capable of.

So, some may think the Blazers have run out of pieces to deal with, but what I’m saying is that it doesn’t really matter at this point. You have to let this team play a full season in order to properly gauge just how good it can be in the future.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 15, 2008 1:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Myth.

If I’m KP, and I take a step back right now and look collectively at what has transpired over the last 3 years, I’m telling myself there is no way I could’ve planned for it to work out like this. That is to say, at some point KP probably thought bringing in a vet would be the necessary step in the formation of a championship-caliber team, only now, when looking at what he’s assembled, when seeing the balance and the potent mixture, he might not believe we need a vet anymore.

If all holds and goes as many think it will, he won’t need a new groove. We have youth… all he’ll need to do is show up with a smile on his face.

Playing basketball... is like playing poker while running on a treadmill at full speed with people swinging a Louisville Slugger at you. -Dave on 95.5 The Game

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 15, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Paul Allen and KP both reaffirmed at 2008 draft time that we still covet that cap space

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't mean

that it won’t be used to extend Martell and Channing if they continue to progress.

It’s an option that’s open. You don’t have to use it unless there really is someone available using it that will really improve your team. It’s possible that we’ll be strong enough that there really isn’t anything we can use the cap space for to improve.

That doesn’t mean you don’t protect the option, until the time comes that you know for sure whether or not you’ll want it.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 17, 2008 2:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bottom Line: Who cares about CHIPS if we are getting WINS...

PG – TBD
SG – Brandon Roy
SF – TBD
PF – LaMaracus Aldridge
C – Greg Oden

So, we KNOW that 2,4,&5 are filled for the foreseeable future. Oh no! What to do about point guards? What do we do about small forwards? What is our primary 8-man rotation going to be?

If you didn’t let those three questions sink in, reread them, because those are the questions that KP, Nate & Co. are looking to evaluate and establish this season. I am not going to say this is a throw-away season, this is a rise to the expectations season and the management is finally putting the screws to our stable of prospects in regards to production and being counted on by the team. There wasn’t a real shake-up this year like many had expected or prognosticated. Jarrett Jack went, but that seemed to be a foregone conclusion that Jack was good enough for the NBA but not this crop of Blazers answer for the point guard role, and his opportunity to stick in the 8-man rotation was cancelled because he turned the ball over too-much, didn’t shoot well from outside like they needed and he didn’t defend up to his potential (IMO).

Is our point guard scenario going to be figured out after this season? No, Yes, maybe… But we know one thing, Jack isn’t but Koponen, Bayless or Rudy could be part(s) of the equation. That is fine with me now, finding out what we really have in the PG slot is going to take at least a little bit of time. Besides, Portland still has Steve Blake as the “fill-in” veteran starter to soak up minutes if the youngsters aren’t effective with B.Roy yet.

With the small forwards we are closer than we have been in 3 years to knowing/thinking we have our SF position sewed up. Last year KP had brought in sharp-shooting SF James Jones to pad the SF position. The year before KP brought in SF Ime Udoka to help revitalize the city’s interest in PTB with a quality veteran-of-Portland-fame player. Both of which were KP driven and ultimately I suspect that KP knew Darius was on thin ice from the get-go. KP’s first draft was B.Roy, LMA and Sergio. B.Roy’s drafting pushed previous top-pick Martell Webster into the position of Small Forward for his NBA outlook rather than Shooting Guard, which B-Roy is now going to fill long-term. Also, KP had another small-forward youngster on the team in Travis Outlaw. When KP had arrived, it was clear that both Webster and Outlaw were projects that needed to be developed.

KP & Co. have kept those two major “potential” players, have worked hard to develop them, and to keep patient with them on roster and not just going for somebody better in a trade. Fact is, this is the year finally that Webster should not need a James Jones or Ime Udoka somewhere in the lineup for protection. Outlaw should at least play up to his Blazers-6th-man role and improve again. KP and Nate are going to give Webster and Outlaw the chances they need to solidify thier long-term place with this organization or… the public will realize they are not what we’d hoped and trade them to move on. My feeling is that Webster and Outlaw showed glimpses of just how simply killer they both can be, and that this season, with Oden in the mix, and Roy and Aldridge taken further steps forward with their games, that Webster and Outlaw will have thier chance to redefine their (previous) breakout season’s.

As far as our rotation goes, everyone knows really good teams have a very solid and well-defined 8-man rotation, as well as extra depth around the roster to be able to make up for long seasons, injuries, mismatches and matchups. I believe our Big-8 are here and now: Oden, Roy, Aldridge, Webster, Outlaw, Rudy, Frye, and Bayless. Time will tell, but, I think you should put more stock into this guess that many did in fatty’s call to draft Durant over Oden.

by Portland Dynasty on Jul 15, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

That's a SMALL rotation

What about Pryz? And who is your starting point?

by blazer91 on Jul 15, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would rec it just because you mention Blake

But you have a lot of valid points as well. Two years ago there were veterans we didn’t want influencing our younger guys. We got rid of them. Last year we had Jones and Blake. This year it seems to be sink or swim for some of our guys. They have enough people to give them a hand if they need one when things get tough, but they have to be their own man to come through this and be on a championship caliber team.

You may be putting a little too much stock in some of our more unproven guys saying that they will all pull through, but to drop them now for a veteran would be cutting bait too early. Between Webster, Outlaw, Rudy, Frye and Bayless, there isn’t one that has proven to be up to the caliber player that we need. KP has made some incredible moves and put this team in a good spot to become a dominant team, but the players I just mentioned are all gambles. I think some will pull through, most of them would be difficult to bet against, but if all of them are still here I would be pretty surprised.

by einman77 on Jul 16, 2008 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blake & Pryz pieces for now, bench depth only in another year...

Pryzbilla is coming of a great season for him, and his minutes this year are going to be very important again, as he will be helping Greg Oden stay fresh and out of foul trouble. Blake is going to start this season as the PG, and maybe he will be the starting point guard all season depending on how good this team is, but long term, Blake is not the point guard that people are begging for.

We need Blake because the point guard situation has at least a year to develop for Bayless or Koponen or a trade. I definitely could see Bayless as our PG of the future because of his ability to dribble, speed, crazy hops, and ability to score. Of course much improvement in needed in those areas and more, including defense.

I just recently watched Martell’s game last year where he had over 20 points in the 3rd quarter against Utah. Very nice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMVXnJDBtnI

I also just watched highlights of Travis Outlaw from last season…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Z4nxdjpnE

Webster and Outlaw ARE GUYS that I believe are going to Pull Through for Portland this year, and this is solely based on their successes last season. Webster and Outlaw are young and were inconsistent last year, but we sure do forget quickly those confidence builders we saw throughout that 41-41 season. This years chances are good for a winning season and a playoff berth, but Roy, Aldridge, Webster and Outlaw again are going to need to carry this team. Oden, Rudy and Bayless are rookies, so they could help out some, but our four top scorers from last year need to improve their games again and lead this young team to more success.

I am not trying to dis Blake or Pryzbilla, I am huge fans of both, and I think they could remain on Portland as key reserves, though not key rotation guys. I believe our success will come with a rotationi of:
starters
G: Jarryd Bayless
G: Brandon Roy
F: Martell Webster
F: LaMarcus Aldridge
C: Greg Oden
reserves
F: Travis Outlaw
G: Rudy Fernandez
F: Channing Frye

Ike Diogu, Joel Pryzbilla, Steve Blake, Petteri Koponen and Nicolas Batum are all solid talents and great guys for this team, but I think after things shake down, Nate will settle into a rotation for 2009-2010 season of those eight guys. This year is less of a gamble. We have steady-hand Steve Blake at starting point guard, we have best-big-man-back-up Joel Pryzbilla to deal punishment when Oden is not out there playing, and we have added muscle off the bench with Diogu to solidify the post game. I will agree that Webster and Outlaw are not sure-fire bets, but they are not super risky gambles to support our SF needs, afterall, Travis was close to being the NBA’s 6th Man and Martell has shown consistent improvements in his slashing, shooting, defense and attitude. Travis had 26 games last year where he scored 17 points or more. Martell had 12 games last year where he scored 17 points or more. I would bet that both of these players improve on their scoring as much as they improve the other facets of their games.

by Portland Dynasty on Jul 16, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well reasoned and well written - rec'd

Your thinking is sound imo. The bigs will shake down to a three-man rotation. The wings will shake down to a three man rotation and the point will shake down to a two-man rotation. The player I am not sure of is Frye in your list but he is the best we have at this time. I do think Petco will jump into this equation in a year or two and become the secondary point behind Roy. That pushes Bayless into a wing with Martell, Outlaw and Rudy making one of the four expendable. Sergio may not make it to training camp if KP signs Petko.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rotation during the

year before the playoffs probably will include 10 players. Using just 8 may very well burn them out by playoff time. Besides we do have real talent at least 10 deep. Plus Nate will give Sergio and Rudy chances to play together. Blake can be a valuable PG for many years even as a reserve.

Also chances are there will be some injuries where the great depth will be very valuable. Joel will play lots of minutes to spell GO.

Great analysis of the play and abiity of Martell and Travis.

by OrygunRod on Jul 16, 2008 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with ya

Outlaw and Webster are the safer bets. I would go with 80% that they are on the team after this season if I were to put odds on them. I would also give Bayless a solid 88% chance since I see no way we will trade him before his rookie contract expires. Pryz and Blaze are dependable, stable vets who I think anchor the team well for the time being. They might not be here in a few years, but they do fill our ‘veteran need’ for now as far as I’m concerned.

Frye I think is at 50% that he will be here after next year. Either him or Ike will be gone, I don’t know enough about Ike to say who fits better. I also think Sergio has the same shot at point as Koppenen does (before you kill me for that, ask yourself if you were riding the Green bandwagon last year at this time advocating Sergio would be gone before thetrading deadline), and I wouldn’t put either of them above a 40% chance of staying. Rudy should be solid, but I’ll still go with 75% for him since Euros are so hit or miss in their transition to the NBA.

Overall though, we will have a lot of cap space and, despite what this post says, a ton of chips. That throws a wrench into any visions of this team on a long term basis. I don’t think that we have filled out or great 8 yet, but what we have ain’t bad.

by einman77 on Jul 17, 2008 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Key players vs. The Rest of the Roster...

If our core for the future is Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Webster, Outlaw, Bayless & Rudy.

That leaves vets PG Blake and C Joel Pryzbilla still undetermined about their overall future and fit with this team, as well as young forwards Ike Diogu and Channing Frye. NONE of these four are guys who are bad-character guys, they know this NBA thing is A.) a business and B.) a lifestyle and C.) doesn’t last for ever. Because all four of these players are smart and have their priorities in order, I could see them all with chances in the 80%-tile of remaining Blazers for one to five years after this one. Yeah, I know there is some unlikelyhood of KP not wanting to make moves to improve the roster, but this will really depend on how good those guys listed at the top become in one or two seasons.

IF (I tried to make it a big if) Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge have Breakthrough seasons in 2008-2009 the Blazers will continue to be exciting and progressing in the ranks of the NBA. IF Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster can both BEST their nice seasons last year to the point where they truly have Breakthrough years, that will be some great scoring options and athleticism for this Blazers Team. Of course, the faster Greg Oden comes on will really determine how good and how quick this team becomes a competitor. But, Oden’s health is top priority… so Pryzbilla will be kept around regardless of the cost (thanks Mr. Allen) to be our insurance card for the big goofball. Pryz won’t mind being a 12-20 minute player at this point in his career and it should prolong his career in a city that still embraces him.

Frye and Diogu both have big-time upside are both in the 25 and under crowd. Will either being a main cog for another team…. doubtfully. Therefore, IF Nate can make sure that these players are healthy and happy in portland, and if Nate can really DEFINE roles for both that will get them on the court for some minutes while earning what these guys both think they are worth. The bonus of these two guys is that they know they are good cogs to have, but they are not ego-maniacs who want to be totally overpayed. That is where this character piece comes in big, with the salary cap management and not having ridiculously over-paid contracts on your squad. Both could be GEMS for us off the bench, and in all liklihood, they could stick around and help fill out this roster for a long time as they both have very useable NBA skills (Frye= 6’11 w/touch and Diogu= back to the basket post game)... these skills are bankable and can be built into any offensive schemes.

That leaves Steve Blake. Blake, IMO, is our point guard of today. At 28, he has topped out on his abilities and gives us all that he has. Which right now, is good to good enough. Could/would Blake be able to start for another team this year?... definitely, he is a capable starter and player in the NBA. What about in another year or two? Every year there are new guards coming into the league, and every year there are young guards who finally hit the stride to become effective NBA players. Blakes window as a capable starter isn’t long because he is already at his ceiling and that is less than 10ppg and less than 7apg. Beacuse of this reality that will be facing Blake, as well as his bond and role in the locker room with this Blazers core, we could also see Blake staying around in a back-up back-up role with no guaranteed minutes in the future. KP and Nate could keep any of these guys and WILL if they believe that our Blazers can be and will be contenders with them on the team.

Once we start winning, KP will leverage our Billionaire to keep the pieces that fit and the ones who want to fit. At this point, I am fairly certain that Pryz, Blake and Frye all WANT to fit. Once Ike Diogu realizes where this team is headed, I could see him just wanting to fit in and stay around for that, too.

by Portland Dynasty on Jul 17, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blake will be starter-capable for 5-6 more years

Sure, young guys come in, but old guys (Kidd, Nash, etc) drop out.

I’m not saying Blake will start, I think he’ll be playing behind Bayless within two years, max. But he’ll be one of the top 5 backup PGs in the league—unless Sergio or PK surpass him, and then he might just be injury cover, or he might go elsewhere.

But he’ll still be very good and solid for 5-6 years.

And he may well get 8-10 assists per game if he holds his starting job on this team, because there may be a lot more openings for assists. And as a spot-up shooter from distance, his points may actually increase as well, because teams are likely to be collapsing down on us more this year, so more open looks from 3 point land may ensue. Blake and Martell could both hit 150 3s for us this year, potentially.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jul 18, 2008 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Blake able to stick in the league until he is 33-34? I doubt it.

Pro Sports are for young men and superstars. Blake is a very solid-capable player now and is on the mid-to-low end of NBA starting PG skills/talent/athleticism.

I have no doubt that Blake is a great player to keep around for 2 years because of the youth around him in the guard rotation, but after that, I don’t know how much Blake has left, especially for another team. That is my point in saying that Portland should be able to retain Blakes services as a bench reserve and NOT part of the rotation. IF Portland has to have Blake in the rotation in 3-years, KP will have failed to improve a spot that everyone wants improved and Nate will have failed at properly developing one of a plethora of talented/potential “point guards of the future”.

I can buy that Blake has NBA value to start and play major minutes for two or three more years, but beyond that, I think it is a long shot. Good news for Portland, as a fan favorite, Blake will be able to resign with P-town for a small veteran contract and stick in with this group to get hella-jewelry.

5-6 years… I think that is a long shot for Blake. Not many players make it that long in the NBA, 33 years old. There is new talent coming in the league every year, they have more upside, more potential, small contracts and fan buzz. All things that good vets don’t usually come with.

by Portland Dynasty on Jul 18, 2008 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Channeling my inner tominhawaii

Well, with regards to Chips, I think that while Ponch got the ladies, John was actually the better police officer.

by DonkeyShins on Jul 15, 2008 3:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Nice One

I was going to go with Sour Cream and Chives or Barbecue.

"France is a place where the money falls apart in your hands but you can't tear the toilet paper" - Billy Wilder

by tominhawaii on Jul 16, 2008 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad I read all these before posting.

Otherwise I would have made a bigger idiot out of myself than usual by posting that again.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23

by T Darkstar on Jul 16, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why RLEC hasn't yet been moved

I appreciate many of the comments and concerns that you bring up in your original post. Regarding RLEC, those kinds of contracts are most valuable at the trade deadline, to take advantage of a situation where a very good player is made available for whatever reason. KP will get a few months to see how much our RAO trio has matured, and pounce if a good player is made available for whatever reason (disagreement w/ management, stingy ownership dumping a contract, etc.)

You also allude to the fact that, long-term, it’s hard to keep three excellent players like RAO on the team together so they all get paid. San Antonio was able to do it because Manu Ginobili was undervalued early in his career and both TD and he agreed to take a little less money for the good of the team. We’re also going to have to establish a pecking order among those three in terms of who gets paid. Only one of them will get a max contract (my guess is GO) and the others will need to take slightly less but still lucrative deals.

Ultimately, whether we win championships will depend on the development (and injuries) of those three. Our large horde of young, inexpensive assets and RLEC allow us a great amount of flexibility to build around them, but there’s no way we can bring in someone who’s a top name out there (e.g. Josh Smith) and expect them to be a 4th banana. In time, we’ll see who turn out to be bananas 4-15 on this team, but it will have a marginal effect on the number of banners that end up in the rafters at the Rose Garden.

by kickbrass on Jul 15, 2008 6:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Salary cap

Not convinced Paul Allen cares a whiff about the luxury tax. He’s buying picks for max cash, agreeing to take on Raef’s extra year to get Roy, and willing to pay Steve Francis a zillion bucks to not set foot in the city. Doesn’t seem to me like a guy who’s afraid of a $100M payroll.

by Engineering Problem on Jul 15, 2008 8:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Paul Allen has said

he will pay the luxury tax so long as the team is in the top four of the conference (playoffs). He is like anyone else when his money is wasted and unproductive so progress and success are the requirements. That said he likely will provide better than any owner when the results seem to warrant the money.

KP does a wonderful job of constantly involving Paul in everything. I believe KP has said he talks with Paul several times each day and Paul attended draft tryouts and studied film with the staff. Paul is a very bright guy who is a very big part of the process. They are all learning together.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still Flexibility

I don’t agree that we have a need for LaFrentz as a backup to Oden and Pryz. Injuries or not, you will always have Frye who can fill the spot if both are injured. This doesn’t imply that I think LaFrentz, as a players, is a worthwhile trading chip, by the way. I would also point out that players such as Jack may get your from 13 to 11, but if you’re at 20, they’ll move you to 15. And then, if Allen buys another 25/26 1st round next year, you’ll have 2 #1’s, and those will move you up a few more slots closer to the lottery. At that point, a Jack type will move you a few steps higher still. Or, all of this, and not too much cap space will get you right back to a solid vet.

At the same time, I think you’re not entirely taking into account another factor. KP had a number of calls on Outlaw – because an athletic 23 year old averaging 14 pts off the bench without a $9 million contract is a good chip.

In that sense, we have many chips to deal. Where you and I don’t see eye to eye is you seem to think that the only value on the team is Aldridge, Oden and Roy. That’s no longer the case. You’re prejudging both Bayless and Fernandez, and underestimating Outlaw’s value, as well as Blakes. And then forgetting that all of this can be packaged with draft picks, and those aren’t just #2’s.

Jones wasn’t picked up, for example, from where I sit, because we’re replacing Jones with Outlaw, and he would’ve had little playing time – yet would’ve cost $4.5 million to sit on the bench – and that’ s simply not good business. If you have a player on the third squad, you certainly don’t pay more than $1 -$3 million for them (Diogu).

And, never forget, if it’s just solid back up veteran presence we’re looking for – then all you have to do is look at what’s going on to know that every year, several dozen players in the $2 million to $5 million range change hands – just like Blake did last year, or Jones this year etc. etc..

by Eben Calder on Jul 16, 2008 11:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good points

And the most limiting commodity we have are the 15 roster spots. Every one of those needs to be filling its purpose so re-signing Jones eliminates someone else such as Petko.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jul 16, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further

Exactly. Our team is improving, so let’s not forget that the players we develop are also increasing in value. And we have 15 slots on that bench. PetKo was a number 30, maybe in a year he’s worth a #20, or whatever. When you stockpile players – you’re also stockpiling their draft position.

It’s not that we lack chips, its just that the game changes – as do our chips. Before, it revolved around high draft picks and dumping players we didn’t want. Whereas now, it revolves around a number of good character, young and relatively low cost players on a clearly improving team, free agents, players cut for cap space, or restricted free agents who are lost because a team didn’t want to match the offer. Only then do we even have to look at “trades”. Look at all the players moving around this year. Davis, Brand, Magette, maybe Josh Howard, Posey, Jones, Turiaf, etc. etc., not to include Camby who went for a 2nd round draft pick – of all things. Most of the teams involved didn’t even get a player back. At the same time, the real issue on vets is “are we talking a starter or backups”? I don’t think we know right now. Sure, we could make a move, but I think KP’s fine. The only thing he won’t have is a top 10 pick. But what he will have is a 15 man roster with better over all players than we’ve had for years- and money.

by Eben Calder on Jul 16, 2008 3:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The game keeps on changing and so do our CHIPS...

+1 Eben Calder… you have wisdom.

just wanted to copy and paste a direct quote from your post above…. maybe some of your wisdom and insight will rub off on my underpriviledged brain:

“It’s not that we lack chips, its just that the game changes – as do our chips. Before, it revolved around high draft picks and dumping players we didn’t want. Whereas now, it revolves around a number of good character, young and relatively low cost players on a clearly improving team, free agents, players cut for cap space, or restricted free agents who are lost because a team didn’t want to match the offer.”

In this regard, the Blazers org right now would be classified as a “tweener”... a dreaded word in the hoops world, but true of this team non-the-less. Since Portland is in “tweener” mode, WE, the fans are all challenged to keep in mind the most precious ingredient to this whole thing…. PATIENCE. Stay patient with this team and we will bear some fruit. Seriously, how can you not be super-crazy-stoked about this exciting and young roster? Unbelieveable chance to really be a force in the NBA, I hope we can keep growing the momentum and be patient enough to keep the right pieces at the right price.

Sincerely,
Patient in Portland.

by Portland Dynasty on Jul 17, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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