More Bayless
by Dave on Jul 10, 2008 12:10 AM PDT
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PrintSome more thoughts on Jerryd Bayless, since he, Ike Diogu, and Nicolas Batum are officially Blazers now.
I talked yesterday about the expectations for Bayless to do well in Summer League since his role is not defined. In my eyes there’s added expectation for him to perform given the situation into which he was drafted. You may recall me saying in several pre-draft interviews that I didn’t feel the Blazers were going to draft a point guard. As it turns out, I was wrong. Well, mostly wrong anyway.
There’s an ounce of wiggle room here in that Bayless is a combo guard. Jason Quick’s article the other day (scroll down for a discussion) had Nate McMillan wishing fervently for JB to play point, but frankly he was probably drafted for his scoring and potential defensive skills as much as for his ability to run an offense. Seeing as how he’s not even manning the point to start Summer League my guess is we’d all be better off expecting to see Jerryd as a sizzling scorer off the bench in the short-term instead of our answer at the one-spot. That’s not wholly inappropriate either. I don’t think anybody envisions Deron Williams here.
That said, the one caveat I offered in the pre-draft discussion was that if they did end up going with a point guard they must really feel that he’s something special. This was the fifth year in a row the Blazers used a first-round pick on a point guard: Sebastian Telfair, Jarrett Jack, Sergio Rodriguez, Petteri Koponen, Jerryd Bayless. At some point you have to start seeing a return. Telfair and Jack are gone. Hopefully Sergio’s arc will rebound but right now it looks like he’s on life support as far as playing time and role. Koponen still hasn’t shown he can make the team at all. Even if only two of those five picks were our highest first-rounders in the year they were used they were still assets. So far this is not a terribly impressive payoff. If Bayless cannot produce, and produce within a reasonable amount of time, the Blazers have to look in another direction. I wouldn’t be totally surprised if they did that anyway…if the plan all along was to have Bayless grow into the league as a back-up guard while they traded any (and maybe every) other point guard on the roster plus some forwards for a proven starter at point. Either way Kevin Pritchard making the move for this guy at this playing position, even though technically something of a steal as far as pre-draft projections, shows that he sees something there…probably more than you could assume had we drafted a back-up center or forward. Bayless needs to validate that at least a little. If he can’t, that’s a reason for concern.
Even though Summer League comes far too early to make any kind of reasonable judgment, all eyes will be on him next week for the early returns on the investment.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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A couple of things
I’m more optimistic about the prospects of Bayless for our team than I am of the aforementioned point guards of Telfair, Jack, Rodriguez, and Koponen. Something I think keeps getting overlooked, that Bayless addressed himself at the press conference, is that he felt he was a point guard, and that he played a lot of the 2 because of the circumstances revolving around his Arizona squad.
None of the other prospects we’ve drafted were drafted all that high. Telfair was very hyped coming out of high school, but he was all flash and no substance. Any scout should have seen what honest fans saw, and that was the fact that he had an inconsistant shot. He does have great court vision, but all of the passing lanes are going to close when defenders sag off of you on a regular basis. Sergio Rodriquez has the same exact problem as Telfair. In fact, the only advantage Sergio has over Telfair is height.
The jury is still out on Petteri. I agree that “Koponen still hasn’t shown he can make the team at all” but what chance has he had other than playing out of position in summer league last year? Perhaps he will show them something this year, when he actually gets to play some point? Mike Barett seems excited about his prospects at least. We’ll know more in about three weeks. Again though, how much are we supposed to expect out of a #29 or #30 pick?
Jarrett Jack was the best point guard left after Williams and Paul. Quite a drop off. I don’t think anybody expected him to light the league on fire. Jack still has potential to do some good things, but will have to do it somewhere else. As I’ve said before, I believe Bayless will make us forget about the last 4 years of our point guards.
Can I buy you a fish sandwich?
some good points
one correction: “Jarrett Jack was the best point guard left after Williams and Paul.”
Not true. Ray Felton was taken 5th by Charlotte, right after Paul went to the Hornets. He was, and is, regarded as the third best PG in that draft.
Boomshakalaka
If we'd been picking at #4
we would have expected KP to take a PG, whichever of Bayless or Mayo was left, or possibly Westbrook.
Bayless is the real deal. He’ll start by his third season, possibly sooner, though Blake really fits well.
If Koponen comes through, Blake will drop to third string, or go elsewhere. If not, Bayless and Blake will be the PGs on our first couple of championship teams.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
No one envisions Deron Williams?
I don’t agree. He was one of the first point guards that came to mind when watching his highlight reels. This guy will straight up jam the ball if he gets past his defender, and he can hit the jumper like Deron too. I’m not saying that means he is going to do that in the NBA, but you can’t know for sure. I think a too many people try and talk about what the player is going to be like it’s certain.
No one, not even Nate knows what role Bayless is going to play until they see him play in summer league and play with the other guys in training camp. This guy could end up being every thing we needed out of a point guard.
He'll play the point.
Mac has said for Bayless to get a lot of minutes, he needs to play point. Bayless has said he was a point guard asked to play the SG position because he was a scorer as well. Doesn’t seem to be any conflict between those two. The Blazers clearly looked beyond Bayless’s one year in college to his high school play, and then looked at this skills and mind set. It looks to me like he wants to play the point, has the skills, and if left to focus on that position, he’ll likely blossom as he gets experience. Regardless of summer league, Mac knows there aren’t a lot of minutes for Bayless at the SG spot given Roy and Fernandez. So, Bayless, who’s only 19, will spend the next year learning and playing the point. It’s his position to win or lose, just like SF is Webster and Outlaw’s position to win or lose.
Rumors
Don’t you just love “rumors”. To start out with, Bayless didn’t even show up until Tuesday, and he came in with his parents to meet Mac in a suit and didn’t practice. So, when did they work him out? And “who” actually made that comment. “The word is”needs to be connected to someone, and it isn’t.
Awaiting Summer League Reviews
Remember, Roy & LMA both got immediate kudos for their summer league play. In the 5 games in Vegas the “experts” saw the potential right away. And it translated into the reagular season (as both showed us early on in their first regular season).
If Bayless comes out of the 5 game summer show with similar reviews, it will be a very, very good sign of things to come and sooner than later.
Other than Rudy Gay, one could make a very good arguement that Roy & LMA should have been picks 1 & 2 in the draft 2 years ago. Bayless was regarded as one of the elite players in a much deeper draft this year.
I know this much, from the tape I have watched on Mr. Bayless he looks very EXPLOSIVE. That is the first thing that stands out about him (IMO). There is no doubt that KP has shown a very real knack (and kinda scary too) for knowing which players can translate that college level talent to the next level. Not only that, he also seems to have a an uncanny ability to forsee the ones who can take it to a very high NBA leval. He has already snatched 2 very real gems away from several other reputable GM’s, who I’m sure are still wishing they could have a “do over” from thier 2006 draft day manueverings. This years draft pool was much deeper and thus much more ripe for our GM to do what he does best and then go get what he wanted. Look what he did in a much more shallow pool in 06’. All signs seem to be pointing that Mr. Bayless is the 3rd plum off the KP draft tree.
I think we’ll know more, perhaps much more in the next 10 days. Personally, I cannot wait!
The Oden Era, Day 379
I agree
in addition, you’re looking at a kid with that “killer instinct”. We’ll see how that meshes with this team, but i believe we finally have a player that has it. Watching the interview I get the sense that Bayless is pretty pissed and I suspect he’s the type of guy that will take that anger and shove it down the other teams throats.
My only concern is that he’ll be able to fit on a TEAM not just with a group of guys that he’s the leader of. I’m hopeful that Brandon will help him in that respect.
On another note, it seems that all of these players haven’t really read up or done any research on this team. Roy was listed as the third player when Bayless was listing the players he wanted to play with. Roy will likely always have the lower scoring stats in the future, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’s the man and leader on this team. Roy has consistently been last on Bayless’s list, and to me that shows a failure to recognize. Either that or is reading down a list in his head that goes C, PF, SF, SG, PG.
For me Roy is more untouchable than any other player because he influences the chemistry and addresses situations right off the bat. He also cares exclusively about the TEAM winning, not his own individual situation.
If there’s someone who can make a guy like Bayless fit on a loaded team, it’ll be Brandon. At least Ike new that Brandon was one of the best guards in the league. I completely expect that Bayless didn’t know that because the stats don’t’ necessarily reflect that if you’re only looking at the points.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Forgiving Bayless' comments
Roy has consistently been last on Bayless’s list, and to me that shows a failure to recognize. Either that or is reading down a list in his head that goes C, PF, SF, SG, PG.
Let’s keep in mind that he’s only 19 – if he’s anything like me at that age, he has a lot to learn. Recognizing Roy (who is great, but a ‘quiet’ great) as the man rather than Oden (who should be great, but has been hyped to within an inch of his life) will come once he meets the team and practices with them a bit.
by DonkeyShins on Jul 10, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
As long as he's on the list
I don’t think Brandon will care. Now if JB left him off, prepare for an elbow in the chops off of a pick in a scrimmage!
—Dave
And that wouldn't be malicious
just educational.
“Hey, kid, time to learn the name attached to this elbow!”
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
The staff
is very high on bayless. More so than for a mere back-up player.
Due to that i believe that expectations are high and he’ll be the attempted answer at the point.
The real question is not what we drafted him for, but will he live up to those expectations and be able to fill our need.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Tell you what Dave
If Bayless isn’t the starter by the end of this year, I’ll buy you another dinner at next years summer league. If he is, then you can buy me one or send me a shirt of my choice.
If Bayless lives up to expectations, he’s the answer at point.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
This year being
the 2008-2009 season. To clarify.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Don't Forget About Terry Porter
Terry Porter played forward in college and had to learn to become a point guard- and a bloody fine one at that. He also paired with a super talented play-making guard. You might have heard of him before, Clyde the Glide.
So the whole notion that you have to be a point guard in college to play it in the pros in not founded on history. What is founded on history is that smallish players coming from college usually have minimal pro careers.
Summer League will show which of the rookies has game. Tip it off!
To early for me to tell
how Bayless will work out. But I’ll agree with you ratbastird on one thing: Brandon Roy is and will continue to be the star and most important player on our team …. no matter how good Oden turns out being. Broy just offers so much in so many areas. I’m not much on high-light videos, but for some reason I found myself reviewing a bunch of them a couple days ago. I tell you, it’s easy to forget just how amazingly good he is and how unselfish he is with his extreme willingness and ability to facilitate others.
No doubt, this is Brandon’s team, and I think we can expect it to remain that way for many years to come.
by TwoDeep on Jul 10, 2008 8:50 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Paradigm shift?
I’ve been wanting to ask this but I’m hesitant to do so because it’s not orthodox: what if the paradigm of the straight 1 or 2 is shifting? Face it, we’re not getting Chris Paul or anyone like that soon so why not have 2 combo guards cover both? You don’t really have a PG or SG because they both can do both positions. I’m thinking of Roy and Bayless as a dangerous tandem where the duties shift, ebb and flow as the game situation dictates. There have been many times in his short career where Roy had the ball in his hands at the end of a game; you WANT the ball in his hands at the end of a game. He’s probably not going to be come a classic point guard however. Bayless may be the same type of player in that he has strengths that compliment Roys. We talk of “twin towers” in the post, why don’t we consider a twin combo guard situation?
Im getting cold feet
I know I wrote a post asking what is every one worried about bayless for… but the more I read about him he comes accross as real full of himself…thats ok I guess.,.. two players that I know personally real well (Im not name dropping) Gary Payton and Rod Strickland are real into themselves….but they could play and they got playing time….what happens if he’s not what nate is looking for just yet… what happens to the locker room if the baby dosent get his way…what is getting ready to happen to our culture… every one wanted a scoring point guard … well we have one…I hope we dont miss jarret jack…just sayin
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
I understand where you're coming from.
I’m not going to worry though.
If he fits he’ll play, if not… he’s gone and I expect Brandon will help the coaches show him the door just as he did with Zach.
What Bayless brings is that meanness and that killer instinct. He has the fire and drive to win and frankly, we need that on our team. I suspect Aldridge is developing that and that Oden has it to some extent if you anger him, but Bayless will be bringing it to the table at day one.
The real question will be can we bring him in to our team setting and harness that strength, and while I understand your concern, I think it’s worth the risk. I trust that Brandon will be able to work with Bayless to help keep the team chemistry and considering Brandon has the backing of the entire team, Bayless will do well to fit in. I believe Nate and Brandon have the ability to direct that fire and blow it back out on the other teams.
So, sit back and breath a little bit easier. Your concerns are a large part of the reason the blazers WANTED this kid.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Yup
I’ve never heard of a 19 year old rookie messing up the team’s chemistry.
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
I hear you guys
but you have to admit its scary,,, ratbastird is right..brandon will show him the door if he’s not a real blazer.. and sir in hawaii… its called evolution,,,first times for every thing…never say never
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 10, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Do Not over analyze this.
Bayless is very confident like most very good athletes. Clyde was extremely self confident (and still is) and he tested off the charts of the psyche tests (meaning very good) Stu Inman had him take before the draft. Say, do the Blazers still use those psyche tests as they did for years? That obviously was something that Whitsett never did and another reason for the decline into the era of Jail Blazerdom.
I like his self confidence especially his explanation of his experience: “I feel like my whole life I’ve played point guard, and this year at Arizona I had to play off the ball for our team to be successful. * I know my natural position is point guard, and I feel most comfortable at that position.” [from the Columbian] I do expect great things from him and I like the chip on his shoulder for being passed over and “falling” to the 11th spot. It will be fun watching him learn about his teammates and playing in the NBA. I too think that by the end of the year he may have earned the starting position although Nate could like his scoring as part of the ‘white’ unit.
What an exciting year of NBA basketball we have coming! It will be fun watching these guys learn on the job and grow as a team. I hope Nate encourages more fast breaks as Jack Ramsey said many times that is a way to get free and easy points.
Bayless will be good but not right away
While I can certainly appreciate the fact that Bayless had a prolific season at ASU I’m also reminded of the fact that he’s still 19 years old. Sebastian Telfair, had he gone to Louisville, may very well have put up similar numbers. And if memory serves most Blazer fans initially viewed Telfair as the second coming of Nate Archibald. In no way am I comparing these players, I’m simply comparing the consensus attitude towards fresh Blazer meat year in and year out. The Blazers have been lucky in recent drafts, but it bears keeping in mind that not every pick will be a home run. My excitement towards Bayless is a bit tempered by all of this, but more specifically because of the simple fact that he’s still a kid-a rookie-playing a man’s game. In time, he may be an impact player. But at least for now I don’t see him taking many minutes away from Blake or even Sergio.
He seems like he's been coached
And I don’t mean basketball. Kinda looks like he’s practiced all is answers to reporter’s questions in front of the mirror. Just a little stiff, but I’m sure he’ll warm up soon enough.
Somebody should caution him though not to try to look better in a suit than Mac-10.
2-4 the who
he seems phony
have you looked at his demeanor…he wears his feelings on his sleeves…this kid might be the next kobe
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 10, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Bayless' similarities to Tony Parker
[I watched Bayless in two Arizona 5A1 championship games against the high school where I teach. We won both.]
Bayless is an aggressive, team player who gets intense, at times. His athleticism is top notch. But watch his feet. Smooth, gliding across the court. Quick for redirection like Tony Parker. HIs jab step fadeaways from the elbow are unblockable. He gets in the air quickly and then smoothly strokes it without rushing. He’s a a PG, but not a pass first, floor general. And yes, his interview answers are a bit too canned.
[And to Dave, thanks for the “Cult of KP” shirt I wore at the draft in Portland—mass production of it was suggested.]
Summer league
have any of you guys checked out the summer league roster? it confuses me… there are two names I recognize… and the rest I have never ever heard of… Is it always like that for summer league? Why isn’t Greg playing? I thought he’d be good to go by now.
Someone can answer better than I
But most summer leagues are just rookies, young players from the team, and a bunch of scrubs who are trying to break into the NBA. Normally in Portland’s case, it is a bunch of scrubs with Northwest ties. Oden is holding out for the regular season. I think it would be a waste to debut him in the summer league.
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
you cant risk greg getting hurt in the summer!!
Tom is right ..it is what it is.. and a lot of people getting looks for favors to agents… look at the agent list.. and see who else this guy represent..scratch my back and ill scratch yours… i imagine…... no way any one not already on our radar gets a legit look were too loaded…..this is scrimmage for petko jarred, and nicolas…just a baptism into the nba.
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
by lyfefindsaway on Jul 10, 2008 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Summer League is to Look at your Rookies
The Blazers stated they didn’t want Oden to start contact play yet. As far as the summer league, Oregon Live has an article today on the initial practices, and it’s obvious the focus is Bayless, Batum and Koponen. The rest are throw-ins with one, and SF, mentioned as a possibility for the 15 spot on the roster. The article today, for what it’s worth after a couple of practices, seems to indicate that Bayless and Batum are showing pretty well. I thought it was interesting that KP commented that they had him at 15 on their list pre-draft, and when he fell, they made the move to get him – which is the strategy they also used for Bayless. They’re clearly hoping that Batum convinces them that he not only belongs, but fits into the team as a defensive stopper who can also score. Bayless has been Bayless. Aggressive and determined. You’d never convince him that he can’t play in the NBA right now. Others may think otherwise – but he is one determined 19 year old.
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