Jerryd Bayless Has Haters (but Mike Tokito ain't one of 'em)
by Ben Golliver on Jul 1, 2008 7:14 PM PDT
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PrintEarlier this week, I pointed to some comments on AZCentral.com that left the impression that Jerryd's determination and drive might have rubbed some people the wrong way. Reading through Mike Tokito's recent column on Kevin Love published on Oregon Live, I stumbled on this curious passage.
Jerryd Bayless of Arizona went No. 11 to Indiana, then was traded to Portland. This is very interesting on a lot of fronts. Bayless is a hyper-competitive guy who can score big, but I wonder about his ability to play point guard, which I assume is what Portland has in mind for him. He had to play the point when Nic Wise was injured for the Wildcats, but his best position seemed at shooting guard. Also, I can't remember the last time I saw someone as frustrated as Bayless was during the Wildcats' loss to Oregon at Mac Court, just horrible body language.
Bayless is a strong guy who takes contact very well and is fearless going to the basket, a bit like Brandon Roy in that sense. I'm curious to see how he fits in. Very interesting pickup by the Blazers.
To me, this knock on Bayless seemed similar to the one we heard previously: he's a competitive, fearless guy that has trouble (potentially) playing well with others. Definitely a sticky situation for an incoming rookie.
At that point, I realized that I might be reading too far between the lines. So I contacted Mr. Tokito today for an extended analysis of Mr. Bayless and what he brings (and what, if any, baggage he brings) to the Blazers.
Here's Mr. Tokito's response via email.
I saw Bayless play five or six times in person and probably another 10 on TV last season, and I really like his game. I thought he played an NBA style in that he would go strong to the basket and take contact, either finishing or getting to the line, where he's a very good free throw shooter. He also has good shooting range, and he seemed like a good on-ball defender.
I saw where Kevin Pritchard said he sees Bayless as a combo guard more than a point, which is good. I don't really see him as the Blazers long-term answer at the point, at least not immediately. The guy can play the point, and he had to for part of the season after the Wildcats' starter, Nic Wise, got hurt, but it was one of those deals where as the main offensive option, Bayless needed to both bring the ball up and figure out a way to get himself shots.
I never did interview him one-on-one, so I can't give you a great take on his personality.
The thing I saw with Arizona was that it wasn't a very cohesive team, with players not really rallying around one another much. Bayless was easily the team's best player, but you never saw him leading his teammates or even cheering from the bench. But the whole team was like that, as if no one was having any fun.
I think most of it was the unusual circumstances on that team, with Lute Olson taking that mysterious leave of absence, and with an interim coach in Kevin O'Neill who preferred to play a defensive-oriented style, but with a roster intended to play Olson's uptempo style. Bayless was asked to carry a huge load, and I saw him play 39, 40 minutes in a quite a few games, which is brutal. So it's hard to blame a guy for having negative-looking body language.
My guess is he would fit in fine with the guys the Blazers have, and the team's culture would rub off on him. I wouldn't have wanted to stick him on that horrible 61-loss team I covered, but that would've been true for anybody.
The one thing about Bayless is, he is a big-time scorer who put up points in bunches, and I can see him becoming one of those "microwave" guys off the bench. At No. 11 (ignoring the whole trade aspect), he should be a steal, and I would have taken him ahead of Russell Westbrook, who went No. 4 to Seattle, and I would have thought long and hard if a choice came down to him or O.J. Mayo.
Mr. Tokito's comments seem to echo what a number of you said in the comments earlier: 1) UA, without Lute Olsen, was a tough situation for a player of Bayless's calibre and 2) Bayless is sickly talented.
So, for those of you that had concerns: Do these thoughts help you sleep easier tonight? Or is the jury still out?
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
PS Many thanks to Mr. Tokito for the thoughtful response!
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Not worried at all
We’re talking about a 19-year-old rookie joining a stacked team, so there’s no real pressure on Jerryd to be The Man as there was at AZ. He won’t start for a while, if at all. He has a lot to learn to play in the NBA. Nate will bring him along gradually, unless he starts killing opponents, which would be very cool. I think he’s going to have a blast on this team. If he doesn’t, he has a rookie contract and could easily be traded or, worst case, cut.
"I woke up this morning, Barbosa and eggs in my bed." --BlueBooYay
Why worry?
Lets be honest, the extent of his point guard action will most likely have him dribble the ball up the court and hit Brandon Roy when he gets a look. At that point he will get to play more of a shooting guard position in which he has to find open spots for Brandon to give him wide open jumpers.
So as far as I can tell, his ball handling abilities will be fine, and his ability to defend the point will be AWESOME. I feel so confident in his abilities to handle that role that I wouldnt be dissapointed at all to see him start right from the start.
I don't get it
A good on the ball defender who can slash and shoot and can play either guard position, but will be asked to play point, as the third or fourth scoring option on a loaded, disciplined, team. The first player in that same situation that comes to mind won 5 titles. Ron Harper, anyone? Minus the knee injury, of course.
I think the better question than “how will Bayless shake out?” (since that has been asked a lot and won’t be answered until summer league at the earliest) is what do fans (especially those dubious of Bayless) want? Because of Roy, we do not need, or necessarily want, a traditional point guard. A better fit would be a Harper/Fisher/to-some-extent Cassell type guard (all three combined for 10 titles from 1994 to 2004, with Fisher and Harper as teammates). With Bayless, we have a guy whose ceiling can be that guy, but at a star level (Harper was a star pre-injury, but FT% and 3pt% were not great for a guard).
I guess my point is, we don’t know what we have exactly, but the potential for a perfect fit is most definitely there. Considering we gave up practically nothing, and what our other options were (realistically), shouldn’t we be happy and hopeful? Also, as has been brought up, if he’s good, but doesn’t fit, that is just another trading chip.
I will never waste a beer. There are too many sober kids in India. -Rod Benson
yeah
Blazers fans got a little spoiled by KP. I remember like 2 monthes ago when some one would talk about Blazers trading up for Bayless, fans would say, ” Oh we would have to give up much to get him”. Now since we got him we think will he fit with the Blazers? What if this what if that?
I have high hopes for him.
I think that the situation he finds himself in is about perfect for a cerebral, ambitious, arrogant scoring guard. The undersized / ultra quick aspects make it a further complimentary fit. Here’s my secret hope…
I too, like many here, have watched playoff championship contenders self select on mental and physical toughness and go-for the-throat in-your-face obnoxiousness. I read elsewhere that we need THAT GUY. The guy other teams can’t stop cursing at and complaining about. Less charm and humility, if you will and more anything-to-win jerkiness.
Are we lacking here? Does JB help redress this shortcoming?
Perfect practice makes perfect.
he might
he may be better than people give him credit for once he’s on the right team… should be interesting. I don’t mind some cocky as long as the action backs it up and the rest of the team is willing to have his back because they’re a team.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
this topic is getting run into the ground...
and it seems so freakin’ obvious. B-Roy is our future ball handler/offense conductor. JB is a shooter/slasher/defender. Seems like a perfect fit. Even if he turns out to be a bust, I guess we will have to live with Roy/Rudy in the backcourt.
I want this to be the end of the discussion. JB is just another option to try with Roy playing the 1 on offense and the 2 on defense. Rudy is the other. May the best player win the starting spot.
no way, man
if there’s one thing we do here is pound each and every topic fully into the ground, and then a little more. It’s one of our charms. :)
Bam!!!! Ditto
Actually I agree that I Bayless seems to be the perfect fit for playin with The Royal One and the price was certainly right (I won’t say “practically nothin” because that seems mean).
BTW Ben, nice job getting a response back from Mike (I know that sounds bad but you know what I mean, seeing how he is of the
“traditional media”)
"Some of Dave’s greatest gifts are unanswered posts."
appreciate it
but the real “nice job” goes to Mike for hooking us up!
"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.
by Ben Golliver on Jul 2, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that for me or Section323?
If it Section323, then you should know that that “dude” is a “chick”
"Some of Dave’s greatest gifts are unanswered posts."
dude...
you forgot to apologize to the goats! Apologize I say!!!
In other news, apparently my gf has already been to the star trek experience. A ferengi attempted to buy her. Is it wrong to wonder, if a ferengi makes an offer again, how much I could get?
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Ok...question
You mentioned a goat and your girlfriend in the same sentence ….dare I ask?
"Some of Dave’s greatest gifts are unanswered posts."
welcome to the site
i like your screenname
you are free to start your own conversations by creating a fan post on the right hand side.
i look forward to reading your contributions.
"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.
hey... what about finland???
just wondering.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
interesting point
The one thing about Bayless is, he is a big-time scorer who put up points in bunches, and I can see him becoming one of those “microwave” guys off the bench.
It’s possible he’s still not our starting point… maybe he’s the back-up and our starting combo is rudy/Roy? That’s what I had been expecting before we drafted bayless, or a Blake/Roy/Rudy guard rotation. I didn’t think Finland would be coming over this year. I thought he’d need to wait one more year for Rudy and then he’d come over to be our starter and our long term three guard rotation would be Finland/Rudy/Roy. With Bayless in the mix I ASSUMED that we’d be dumping finland at some point (by mid season) and Bayless would be the starter. AFter all, if KP is excited and Bayless was the fourth most talented in a deep draft… doesn’t that mean he’s a starter?
This will be an interesting year in that we get to see what we have. By the end of 2008 I think the direction of the team will be pretty clear.
I’m definitely looking forward to summer league!
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
Microwave guys
This could actually be scary. Rudy is like that. Travis is like that.
Imagine sitting coaching the other team on the bench. You are scared to death that Roy is going to cut you to bits with a scalpel, Oden is going to pound you into submission, and LMA is going to do some of both. But you hang tight with them through the first 10 minutes, and RELIEF! Nate just did a platoon substitution, and you can breath easy for a few minutes while those guys are on the bench.
And you look over and see who is coming in—and wonder which one is going to blow up in your face over the next 6 minutes.
Long term, I see Bayless as starting, though. He’ll be more like Martell, the guy who starts, fills a role, but is always a threat to explode on you. But he’ll go off on teams more often than Martell does, I think. He’s an all-star talent. I still can’t believe we got him at the price we got him.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
Who Needs a PG?
I’m beginning to think the talk of needing a high profile PG is overblown at this point. With Oden, Aldridge, Outlaw and Roy we have plenty of firepower in the starting line-up and no need for another scorer. Blake is not perfect, but he shot over 40% from 3 last year, is steady with the ball, is a decent defender who has size, is familiar with this team and tne personnel and can score a bit when needed. I would not be against getting a higher profile PG-but I think we are in good shape for the season with Bayless essentially being a combo guard and still having Sergio as a back-up with Roy and even Rudy having the ability to play PG.
by RudyNotFernandez on Jul 1, 2008 11:44 PM PDT reply actions
We are so spoiled.
Right now Warriors fans are hoping they can get Chris Duhon somehow.
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
Yup, and start votes like "Barron: wish him well, hope he gets injured or dont care?'
Or think about how to tank in order to get a good draft pick like Rubio. For now Beno Udrih also seems gone from the market (LAC tried to get him with the MLE as well). Maybe Charlotte, Memphis or Seattle are willing to help them out with a spare PG, but that’s no replacement for Davis.
Just a thought: Would you offer Bayless (who could be better some time but right now hasn’t proven it) and change for Ellis to “help”?
Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
Wrong reason to worry
Although he has an attitude out on the court, this team could use that extra bit of heart and passion. He plays full speed 100% of the time. Almost every single one of his weaknesses are nullified by the fact Roy plays next to him. Everyone here knows Brandon is the keeper of the rock in crunch time, so that eliminates that particular weakness. Another weakness is that Bayless couldn’t guard a 2, if forced to play his natural position. But that won’t matter either, because obviously, Roy defends the 2’s. My biggest problem with Bayless is his defense in general. He has extremely small arms and isn’t good at deflecting much of anything, or staying in front of PG’s. Its also a small thing, because we’re full of solid quality defenders, but to say Bayless is great or even good as a defender is a total exaggeration.
He's just a rookie
Erick Barkley only averaged 4.8 minutes in 8 games for the Blazers in his rookie year. I expect the same for Jerryd Bayless.
Mmm taquitos.
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
Any Takers
Bayless has one year of college ball, as did 5 of the 7 guards taken before 13 in this draft. And they all get analyzed to death over there “weaknesses”. And they all had criticism. Augustin was too small and couldn’t defend bigger PG’s, Westbrook was a good defender but not necessarily a good scorer and people weren’t certain if he was a SF or a PG, Gordon was too short and his arms weren’t long enough to guard most SG’s now in the league, and no one is sure if Bayless or Mayo can play point – because they played on teams where they were both the best scorer on their team, yet also supposed to be the point. And for a Freshman, trying to be both in their first year out of high school, they will never – for the critics – get both positions right. At the same time, Arizona was in confusion at the coaching level. The coach who recruited the players didn’t coach, and another coach with a different philosophy was inserted at the last moment. So, Bayless had to be both the point and the shooting guard, and had to adjust from a coach with an uptempo game philosophy to one who wanted more defense. In one year – and at the age of 18.
To me, this is all much ado about nothing. The kids a gym rat, a winner, aggressive, focussed, has a good shot, good quickness, great legs and, at 205 lbs, has more of an NBA body that any of the other guards drafted with the exception of Rush. At the same time, he’ll guard the other teamsPG and Roy will guard the SF on the defensive end. Tht much you know.
The rest, will work itself out. He needs to play in an established system, have one coach, know what’s expected of him, and then focus his skills on that expectation. My bet is that he’ll be a starter downstream. Any takers?
No, Roy WILL sometimes guard the SF
Roy is such a complete player. Roy CAN play SF. We WILL see Roy, Rudy, and Bayless on the floor at the same time when we go small. How nasty would that be to try and guard?
I agree that we should not be looking to bring in a traditional PG. We have ball handling and distribution covered.
We have very few needs. We will have allstars playing both guard spots, Oden at center (our potential league MVP), LMA with clear all-star potential, and solid back-ups and role players at every spot. We are loaded. If Travis completes his development, the Blazers could be starting the starting five of the Western Conference all-star game.
Just being able to say that is freaky!
'77
5 starters in all-star game?
I don’t think so. We can’t even get enough respect to host the game. I wonder if we are starting to believe our own hype. So what is going to happen to Kobe, Duncan, McGrady, Yao, Iverson, Carmelo, Nash, Parker, Durant, .... Are they going to be so frightened by the might Blazers that they withdraw their names from the All-star ballot?
I think we have the potential to be a really great team, but it’s not like the other teams are standing still.
Remember last year when we were going to take the league by storm, and then promptly lost the first 5 or so games? Let’s not get so carried away this time.
Only 5?
Yes, I was being conservative.
You bring up an interesting point: how exactly will the league referees bands together to blatantly rip us off? If we are as good as I think we’ll be, how they gonna stop us? They actually going to can’t-beat-us-join-us this time?
'77
10 pts ; 4 assists ; 3 rebounds
That’s what Bayless will have to average in order to be an improvement (barely) over the combo guard he’s replacing.
Minutes...
Jack was the only backup besides Sergio, who got less than 10 minutes per game. Now we have Rudy and Bayless. Bayless won’t get the 24+ minutes per game that Jack got. Rudy + Bayless fills in for Jack and then some. It’s not the best comparison.
It did occur to me that Rudy will skew the comparison.
On the other hand, a lot of folks here seemed to consider Bayless as a PG. If we are now hearing that he’s more of a combo guard, then a comparison with Jack is appropriate. The uncertainty factor, as you say, is Rudy.
It’s a bit curious, because Rudy is supposed to be a bit of a combo guard as well.
Yeah
We’ve got three combos (counting Brandon) and a pure PG (Blake).
Don’t forget to factor in JJ’s turnovers in the comparison.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
Yeah!
I’m sure with his credentials, he could meet, or even beat Jack’s turnovers per game! How cool is that? It’s always good to be #1 at something. :)
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
I will miss Jarrett Jack, but getting Jerryd Bayless is helping ease my pain.
Actually, I'm looking forward to having Bayless on our team.
That last post made me sound a little bitter. As much as I liked Jack, I think Bayless will be better.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
I will miss Jarrett Jack, but getting Jerryd Bayless is helping ease my pain.
Hey Mr. Poet, remember this?
Betty bought a bit of bitter butter
She put it in her batter
But it made her batter bitter.
Then Betty bought a bit of better butter
And put it in her bitter batter.
Which made her bitter batter better.
"I woke up this morning, Barbosa and eggs in my bed." --BlueBooYay
I welcome Bayless's scoring
It’s not like Brandon and LMA are prolific scorers, even though they are very good players. We may end up saying the same thing for Oden.
As far as Arizona, that program is a mess, even with Lute back, maybe MORE so with Lute back. I can’t hold anything against a guy who had to go through that crummy situation.
Blazer Fan
Jerryd and Rudy, playing together
This is where the rubber hits the road, for me. Who will defer to who? If neither is a true point guard (which I suspect) it would be better if Roy/Blake is on the floor at the same time as Bayless or Fernandez. (Unless the game is already decided)
play off each other
hopefully their egos allow them to play off one another rather than compete for shots…
JB drives, stops, pops, but its a PASS to Rudy, SLAM, then Rudy steals the inbounds, dishes to JB and he pops a 3. These guys get to play against the opponents 2nd team mostly next year, should be killer.
being cocky is a good thing
when youre a hot shot high school and some what good college player… he will come to earth on the first day of training camp..when he realizes that he’s not as good as he thinnks and that this is a team (no I in team) he’ll be just fine
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
I see him off
the bench with Rudy and Outlaw. We will have a sick bench next year!
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
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