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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Phil Jackson is a Putz

I hate to give the L*kers ANY kind of publicity when 40-50% of the conversation in the media is already about them even in years they stink, but I guess I've just read one too many stories about Phil Jackson ranting about the refs, such as this one by the great Dan Wetzel. 

OK...history lesson for those who haven't followed.  Phil Jackson has exactly two tricks in his bag:  winning and whining.  Having been given some of the greatest talent the league has ever known he's won nine championships.  You can't take that away from him.  He's excelled when coaching top guys.  That's his specialty.  But EVERY time his team loses a serious game--a game where he and his team got in over their heads and couldn't correct it--Jackson will pin it on the refs.  He's done this for years, game after game, series after series, including in series against the Blazers that the L*kers eventually ended up winning.  It's as predictable as the sun rising in the East.

You will recall, of course, that this is the same franchise and coach who benefitted from 25 free throws taken in the fourth quarter of an elimination Game 6 against the Kings back in 2001-02.  Does anyone recall a peep coming out of his mouth then?  Any empathy for the opposition?  Even a mention that gosh, that was odd and we were fortunate?  Of course not, because apparently blowing whistles for your team at a pace to make 100 free throw attempts per game is well-deserved.  But when you lose...that's another story, isn't it Phil?

Guess what coach?  You lost.  You lost!  That's it.  That's all.  End of story.  You haven't even lost the series yet, just a couple games on the road!   You can't face a two game losing streak without having to pin the blame on someone else?  You have to throw a tantrum at a podium, refuse to acknowledge the opposing coach, and purposely make fun of opponents' names?  

Do all the rest of us a favor and keep that crap to yourself and have just a thimbleful of graciousness in defeat just as opposing coaches have had to do for you, even in the face of questionable whistles (cough, cough Shaq forearm...cough, cough Jordan push-off).  If you're going to be one of the best coaches in history, one who prides himself on his mystical focus and philosophy, you might want to start acting like it.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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true dave

but man, that was a joke last night. I’m sorry but my hatred for KG goes way deeper than my hatred for the L*kers, and that was a JOKE. 10 FTA for LA the ENTIRE GAME? The T they called on Kobe was bs too. I honestly hope that LA beats Boston by 30 points next game.

by mark twain on Jun 9, 2008 10:41 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Maybe they will

and maybe it was, but are you telling me that the reverse hasn’t happened FOR the L*kers dozens of times, and all the while Jackson grins like a Cheshire cat and claims a just victory because of it? THAT’S the issue. Coach sings one song when things go his way and then sings the opposite one when they don’t.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 9, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

you're right

I don’t know if it’s honestly been that lopsided “dozens” of times, but I’m sure it’s probably happened. However, in my book, that doesn’t make it right either way. Two wrongs do not make a right, and you can’t justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. My biggest beef with this whole thing is that this is THE FINALS, they need to let them play. There shouldn’t be stoppage of play every time there’s any contact, that makes the game so incredibly dull to watch. And obviously, if they’re going to do that, they need to be fair about it. I wouldn’t be so suspicious if it wasn’t the leagues beloved Celtics, the “feel good story” of the year. Sure they love LA, but how great for the headlines if the Celtics win the championship…

by mark twain on Jun 9, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: "they need to let them play..."

I don’t get this. Ar eyou saying that games should be called one way during the season and a different way during the playoffs? Why? Why would you want a team that wins under one system to compete for a championship under a different system?

This kind of things is what lead to that Knick thuggery by Pat Riley and all the grabbing and holding that damn near ruined the game.

Why should a game that puts a premium on finesse and skill turn into whack a mole during the playoffs?

by raoulduke on Jun 9, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think I'm with raoul on this one.

Officiating and interpretation of the rules should not change just because it is the playoffs.

I saw a good portion of the 2nd half and from what I saw, the refs did “let them play” even when it meant grabing, holding hacking and shoving. Particularly in the 4th quarter. I also think a person would be hard pressed to argue that it was all to the benefit of one team. It appeared to me that both teams got away with plays that should have been whistled. At the time, I thought this let them play track by the officials might be giving a slight edge to the Lakers, as they were being aggresive in order to close the 20 pt gap, while the Celtics appeared to be taking the foot off the pedal. But there were enough non-calls on both ends to conclude that the refs had swallowed their whistles in an attempt not to be seen as giving an advantage to one side or the other.

by timg56 on Jun 9, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

the second half they did

the first half they didn’t, but it wasn’t only that. The celtics got away with far more than the lakers and the lakers could breath on people and they’d get called. The announcers were even making a point about it in their announcing speak. The second half was MUCH better, but a lot of momentum changing damage had been done.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

garbage

I hate the lakers but I have enjoyed how they played this year. My beef is not only with game two but with the entire stupid playoffs. The ref’s are being consistant at only one thing, sucking up to the home town crowds. I want to see these athletes decide the outcomes of the games when officiated by the same rules. Right now I am so turned off to the NBA’s officiating that i’m tempted to stop watching till next season when the blazers are back in it.
You cant tell me that the celtics were four times cleaner in the way they played. Or that they were four times more aggressive. Thats just bullcrap and had me screaming at my tv all night long.
The way i see it the nba’s version of a make up game is coming and kg, 34, and jesus are all going to be fouled out in the first quarter. Just retarded!

by benias on Jun 9, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember one of the between-quarter interviews during the playoffs...

And Phil Jackson was complaining about some phantom ‘extra FT’ someone got that never really existed, but he was going on and on about it all sweaty and dumb looking like a big hairy baby. It was very silly, and all the play-by-play guys could do was say “we’re not sure what he was talking about, because no one shot an extra FT…”

For a guy who has won 9 championships, been gifted the best players in the last 20 years, he sure acts like a victim out there. THIS is why he doesn’t get the respect the ancient great coaches get, because he whines over things that 9 times out of 10 benefits his team.

And Mark Twain, I’d argue the “Kobe redemption story” and “Jackson becomes winningest coach of all time” is better than the “Celtics win another title with a Frankenstein team”, and the NBA prefers the former. Also, if LA wins, that’s the beginning of a 2-3 year dynasty in most peoples’ eyes. Again, something the NBA likes: big market dynasty.

LA has been gifted Derek Fisher, Pau Gasol, and historically has gotten the close calls and star power calls. To whine about it in interview and press conferences repeatedly is pathetic.

I just talked to my fiancee, who is at work; she works with a lot of Laker fans (not surprising since we live in LA). They are all whining and complaining about the refs, say stuff like the game was stolen from them. The sense of entitlement is why they are some of the worst fans in sports.

I get what ya mean, Dave. Refs make bad calls. Refs make tough calls. It doesn’t make it the reason you lost the game. Phil Jackson never takes responsibility for a loss… it’s always the refs, the rainy Portland weather, veiled (or not so veiled) sarcastic comments about another player’s injury or whatnot.

Phil Jackson is an overrated joke. When he had mediocre players, they were mediocre. When given the best in the game, they were up there. How is this different than Doc Rivers, for example?

(I know Jackson will get defenders, so I’ll just add it is my right to think he is an overrated joke and while the triangle is innovative all he does is have Tex Winters teach it. The rest of the time he counts his money and thinks up pithy snippy comments to say about other teams when they lose)

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 9, 2008 11:03 AM PDT reply actions  

i know this much

if that was the Blazers getting hosed like that, we’d all be enraged, end of story. Also, let me be clear, I think Phil is overrated for sure. And I agree that the Lakers redemption story is also great for the league. Honestly, for them from a marketing/money making standpoint, it’s a win win situation for them. I still think they want Boston to win it more though.

by mark twain on Jun 9, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think phil is overated

Kobe and shaq didn’t win until phil arrived, but they were a team before that. Jordan and Pippen did not win until phil arrived…

He takes teams over the top. There are many EXCELLENT teams out there that never make it, super stars or not.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mr. Mortimer

You are soo true. I am under the assumption that Phil didn’t invent the triangle, he just perfected and implemented it.

I dunno. I just think that he should have some class. If anyone watched that game they could tell that all in all the Celtics out hustled the Lakers..plain and simple.  He should make his players run "the throwup" play in practice tomorrow and say, these celtics want it too bad 2 just roll over and die.

Also, MarkTwain. KG is a JERK we get it, he is crazy looks ridiculous when he slams his head and throws balls at Martell but come on, he is a great defender and he has had a good career. Is he the best? NO does he deserve this , probably not but for the sake of Paul Pierce and Leon(who i now Heart sooo much b/c he is a sweety and is a tru sucess story and he justles his ass off which seems 2 be lacking in a lot of players these days) cheer for the Celtics. Luck the Fakers and Phil Jackson. They don’t deserve this.

I was not raised to complain like this. Seriously, I have yelled @ the Blazers when they complained about the Refs. and I think it needs to be stopped.

dear Phil,

YOU ARE A GROWN ASS MAN, ACT LIKE IT! You don’t deserve respect, you earn it.

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jun 9, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought

TominHawaii was the ass man?

by DonkeyShins on Jun 9, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh no...

that’s DEFINITELY me.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zen tactics

Phil is just setting the agenda for the next game. He’s putting more pressure on the referees to call Game 3 in the Lakers favor. I’m sure some of that is venting, but the Zen-Master knows exactly what he’s doing. I wouldn’t mind if Nate did something similar in the Finals if the Blazers got hosed like that in the 1st half.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Jun 9, 2008 11:03 AM PDT reply actions  

It totally looks like I stole your comment below you

But I swear I was just typing while you posted. Sorry. Great minds think alike?

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 9, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

That’s just Phil being Phil. Phil is so precocious.

"lowest common denominator - every time I think you hit rock bottom you sink it deeper into the shale" -- bow4meow

by tominhawaii on Jun 9, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

See

I saw this live and just had a chance to see it via TrueHoop. I think I love him. He’s my new Larry Brown.

"lowest common denominator - every time I think you hit rock bottom you sink it deeper into the shale" -- bow4meow

by tominhawaii on Jun 9, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Post Dave

I agree – Jackson is a grade A whiner. But I would argue that his whining is prudent, and if he were coach of the Blazers I would commend him for it.

Essentially, it goes back to the logic that in order to get that call on Fisher in the Spurs-L*kers series Bones should have “sold the foul” better. Essentially, he should have flopped a little bit and then he would have drawn a whistle. The same logic applies to NBA coaches, and the good ones among them realize it. In a sense, Jackson is “selling the contact” the same way a known flopper like Manu does. Now the league and refs are essentially “on notice.”

Game 3 is going to be interesting.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 9, 2008 11:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Agreed

you need to call the refs on it for it to be noticed.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Character only reveals itself

When under duress, in crisis, or when money is involved.

Phil, we once again get to see who you really are.

The Oden Era, Day 354

by Heymoe on Jun 9, 2008 11:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Even the LA Times writers agree with Dave

Here are a few excerpts from the LA Times…

TJ Simers writes…

Lakers fans will be unhappy with the refs—tell it to Utah fans, but then San Antonio kept him out of the lane, and now so have the Celtics. Bryant, grinning when the free-throw disparity was mentioned, too often was settling for the off-balance jumper, which lets the refs off the hook.

And then gets this little zinger in…

When he (Kobe) did attack, making a spinning move inside that maybe no other human could make, he scored and yelled at the referee—drawing a technical foul. I wonder who gets more upset in the Bryant household when they don’t get their way.

Bill Plaschke writes…quotes are Phil Jackson

“It’s the illusion that’s created. The referees referee an illusion.”

Say what?

“Our guys look like maybe the ball was partially stripped when they were getting raked . . . but it was in the crowd, so the referees let that type of thing go,” he said.

I’m not sure what he just said. But whatever he just said, I don’t agree.

From my vantage point beneath the basket, it was clear that the Celtics were forcing the action, forcing the momentum, forcing the Lakers to foul.

by JasonT on Jun 9, 2008 11:15 AM PDT reply actions  

mmm...

I’ve NEVER seen any coach complain when they get calls that go there way.

by PoliSam on Jun 9, 2008 11:29 AM PDT reply actions  

second try

I’m calling the grammar police on my last post.

I have never heard a coach complain after being helped by questionable calls.

by PoliSam on Jun 9, 2008 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

LOL! Almost exactly the same words I posted on True Hoop earlier.

Except I signed mine, “2002 Sacramento Kings.”

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 9, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW, have any of you seen the action on True Hoop about the game?

Two of the most provincial, snobbish, bandwagonish, one-sided, hot-tempered, and illiterate fan bases savaging each other, and closing in on 1,500 posts. Hilarious!

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 9, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

There was another series

that was BLATANTLY biased.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ralph Nader don't lie.

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 9, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Phil Jackson´s strategy is to put pressure on the referees, agreed.

That´s why it is so important to report his behavior, to put the pressure on him, so he can´t use that tool or the tool won´t be useless. We are gonna face the Lakers for next years. Phil Jackson is a Putz!. Pass it.

The Midnight Rambler

by amlmart1 on Jun 9, 2008 11:36 AM PDT reply actions  

Too much credit..

I wish Phil Jackson being a Putz could be as simple giving him credit for trying to manipulate the refs BUT I don’t think it’s that simple. I think he’s a putz….period. You can coach, coach well, coach great and win titles and not be a putz. Funny how The Spurs have been able to win several titles and Popovich was never as whiny as Jackson after just two finals games.
Those saying that someday you’d hope The Blazers coach act in a similar fashion are just plain wrong. Sure defend your team, advocate for your team but first and foremost coach your team. Phil is a lock for the hall of fame, but I’ve never been a big fan. If you thought things were so lopsided and unfair in the game why not voice in during the game? Where were the time outs? Where was the “T” ? Doc Rivers has out coached Phil Jackson thus far and so far all Jackson has responded with is his usual wooden man stance during the game and a post game whine session. I hope this childish and obvious attempt to manipulate the refs backfires on the zen master. A little class and a little more coaching would be the better aproach.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jun 9, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions  

My favorite TP quote

When Jackson said that the Spurs’ championship during the shortened season should have an asterisk, Porter said: “I would have liked to see if all that Zen stuff would work in Vancouver or Dallas.”

Jackson’s whining is the coaching equivalent of flopping.

by grimc on Jun 9, 2008 11:53 AM PDT reply actions  

If Jacksons whining is the coaching equivalent of flopping..

Shouldn’t he start getting fined like the players?

Game 3: L*kers 115 – Celtics 88

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life,(of the Blazers), of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." - Albert Einstein

by BlazerandBeaverBELIEVER on Jun 10, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is Jackson a whiny baby? Heck ya!

Was last nights game called fairly? Heck no, and thats coming from someone who desperately wants to see the L*kers lose. A team should never shoot 4 times as many free throws as their opponent, especially in the finals. Unless one team has an agenda of hacking every player in front of them, there should never be this kind of freethrow gap…

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jun 9, 2008 12:08 PM PDT reply actions  

If I had Tivo, I'd go back and review the 3rd Quarter.

LA put the Celtics in the penalty situation less than half way into the quarter. I can’t remember for sure, but I don’t think LA ever shot any penalty freethrows. It would be interesting to see if the refs stopped calling fouls against Boston, or if the Lakers simply failed to take advantage of the situation by not being agressive. My sense is it was the latter, but I wasn’t paying really close attention, so there’s a better than fair chance my recollection is incorrect.

by timg56 on Jun 9, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a valid point

I think it’s ridiculous that free-throw differentials are always used to demonstrate ref bias. Isn’t it possible one team fouled more than another? Is there some unknown rule that both teams must shoot within four freethrows of one another?

From my vantage point, this was an inconsistently called game on both ends. But the Lakers never figured out that they were going to get called for not moving their feet and reaching in. Yet they continued. Hence the disparity in free throws (going back to your point, timg, about the penalty).

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 9, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jackson is a major cry baby!

if the tables would have been in his favor he would have said “I think the refs saw how we were attacking the basket and getting fouled while they settled for jump shots and crazy wild shots. We attacked the basket and they had no other choice to foul us or let us get two easy points.”

yes Jackson is doing this to get the refs to think a little before game 3.

I think that the Lkers were allowed to catch up to the Celtics to keep people interested in the game.

I think the Lkers will win games 3 and 4, by a good margin, but not sure yet how game 5 will play out.

GO BLAZERS! GO! DON'T FIGHT WIN! Get well soon Oden! Can't wait until Oden's revenge!

by blazerbrads1 on Jun 9, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Last night's officiating

Was not as bad as people made it out to be. Some calls went to LA’s favor, like that ridiculous travelling by Radmanovic when he went for that fast-break dunk. It looked like he was running a marathon. Celtics deserved the win anyways; they played waaaay better.

by Eventine on Jun 9, 2008 2:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I watched the game last night

And there was a SERIOUS bias, or whatever you want to call it, towards the Celtics last night. The Lakers have been on the benefiting end of this as well.

I think the point is more that it shouldn’t exist and it shouldn’t be so in your face. I definitely left that game with the impression that it was fixed. Obviously bad calls were made against the lakers and the same call was NOT called on the Celtics.

That said, the Celtics took advantage like a teenager on viagra who’s been locked away for twenty years and the lakers failed to take advantage of what few calls they did get.

Those bad calls killed momentum. They took Kobe out of the game. The Celtics would probably have still won, but that stuff shouldn’t be happening.

That said, Phil does complain a lot as well, even when he has no right to complain. During the first half last night, Phil had every right.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

oh... and for those who say they saw the second half... blah blah blah

The extreme bias was in the first half, and it was BAD. It cleaned up in the third.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

"a teenager on viagra who’s been locked away for twenty years"

That would be a… fetus?

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 9, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was...

a very hungry fetus.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 9, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gol Dangit

I was gonna POUNCE on that and you had beat me to the punch. :( Now I have to prowl the board looking for somebody else’s ever-so-slight slipup to jump on and make fun of to boost not only my comment totals, but my pitifully flagging self-esteem. Good times!

by BlazersOrBust on Jun 10, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like I said in the "Officiating" fanpost:

I hate how horrible the officiating in the L is, but if it doesn’t favor the L*kers, it’s the exception instead of the rule. They deserve it.

Trade Freeland!

by rockingharder on Jun 9, 2008 4:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Exactly,

Phil J*ckson is the most over rated, pompous, egocentric, coat tail riding, credit stealing, empty suit wearing, smuck I have ever seen.

If I were an official I have to admit it would be difficult not to screw him over every chance I got. Especially after he gives you that condescending "I’m so much more important then you" look.

Also, he coaches the Lakers, so the more he cries the better.

by monkeybones on Jun 9, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions  

monkeybones, there's something you should know about Jax

He’s your father! You know it’s true. Search your feelings!

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 9, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comparing Lord Vader to Big Chief Hippie...

Is a grievous insult to the Dark Lord of the Sith. Not to mention the fact that Vader still had a shred of good in him.

Jerry Sloan is a complete and total smeg head.

by GustyJ on Jun 9, 2008 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Zen Master

having read thru Dave’s blog and all the posts Im surprised neither has mentioned the infamous “the Blazers tend to self destruct in the 4th quarter” remarks that got in our heads worse then the Spirit Mountain Casino Commercial Im waiting for somebody to post on YouTube. \

At the time, Jackson used that Jedi mind trick to into playing like stormtroopers, and it worked for them. Nobody can say Jackson’s remarks didnt get into the heads of our guys. He planted a seed of doubt and it germinated.

That’s why Phil is able to influence people. He knows what to say when and how. Its pitiful to watch and its almost predictability may be wearing thin. Lets hope.

If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?

by bow4meow on Jun 9, 2008 6:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Jackson doesn't sound pathetic, this striong does!

All you guys calling Jackson over rated are crazy. The man has the most playoff wins ever, the highest playoff winning percentage ever, and the highest regular season winning percentage ever. Nine f-ing rings people! Nine! He is almost out of fingers! I am a die hard blazer fan, and have never liked the teams Jackson has coached, but to say he is doesn’t deserve credit just makes you sound ignorant and bitter. Sure he bitches in the press conference, but what NBA coach doesn’t? It is there job to influence the game in a way that benefits their team, and he clearly knows how to do that better than any other coach. And the argument that he rides the coat tails of his great players is also a lazy argument, that is unfounded. You could makethat argument for three or maybe four of his rings, maybe. But that still leaves him with five, more than any other acitve coach. Plenty of other coaches get to coach great players, and plenty of other coaches get a ring, or maybe two. But nobody else has NINE! Don’t be bitter jealous fans people, give credit where it is do. If I wasnt a Blazer fan and I came on this forum, I would start lumping us in with the whiny Jazz fans (my apologies to the sane few of you out there, this was not directed at you).

by bigjmoney on Jun 9, 2008 8:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't think the post was regarding Jackson's coaching accomplishments

It was about his penchant for whining about the refs whenever his team loses. I actually remember him whining between quarters when his team won. Obviously, he’s doing it to work the refs through the press…it just gets a little tired and calculating after awhile.

by JasonT on Jun 9, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

A “Blazer fan” who just happens to join the site today because he was inspired to defend the honor of Phil Jackson in his very first comment ever here. The Oden talk, the Brandon Roy praise, the draft and trade questions…these might have elicited some discussion, but by gum it took a perceived slight to the L*kers coach to get him over the hump and actually typing. And in doing so our Blazer fan takes umbrage that we are insulting the coach and denying the validity of his championships, even though we’re not. It’s natural that he’d be out-of-his-tree upset, of course, because all of Phil’s precious championships mean so much to true Blazer fans. Also he completely glosses over the point of Phil’s unbecoming hypocrisy, which was the point of the piece, in his rush to call other Blazer fans “ignorant” and “bitter” and lacking sanity.

Hmmmm… Blazer fan… Hmmmm… But wait, we do know it’s true because he said it twice!

Because I am amused I am even going to ignore the disguised profanity, as long as it only happens once.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 9, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ooops! Forgot to mention...

Every Blazer fan perceives Jazz fans as “whiny” because we have beaten them in so many important games both recently and historically that they have ample cause to complain about us constantly.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 9, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll Blazer Fan you!

First and foremost, I am very offended that you would question my Blazer’s fanhood (what my status as a Blazer fan had to do with the content of my post, I am still uncertain of). I have bled red and black since I can remember. I was in the Coliseum as a six year old fan to watch the refs deliberate about Danny Young’s 30 footer as time expired (and I cried when it was discounted). I watched from my Coliseum seat as the Blazers stormed back in game 3 of the finals against the Bulls, and promptly had my heart broken in game six when Jordan single handily ended the series. I watched from my Garden seat as BG, JR and co. sent Karl Malone and the Jazz packing in game 6, and I didn’t leave the house for 2 days after Shaq’s exclamation point dunk in game 7 of the conf finals (to complete the saddest quarter of basketball in Blazer history). I was even lucky enough to see the true resurgence of RIP City from my garden seat, when B-Roy and the Blazers denied the Nuggest and kept the streak alive. OK…so now that I have that off of my chest, to your other comments.

I just signed up for Blazer’s edge yesterday, because I had not previously visited the site (I think it is really cool by the way, I love all the Blazer content).

And my point was not that I love Phil Jackson, or that his championships mean something to me, it was that I love basketball and can step away from my petty personal agendas to give credit where credit is due. If nothing else, the man has earned the benefit of the doubt about his strategic comments to the media. Maybe he is a hypocrite, but it is his job to be. The NBA game (especially in the playoffs do to the way games are refed and the power of the homecourt) is not only played within the lines. Refs are human, the media has an impact on the outcome of the game, and players on both teams see the press conferences. Jackson has demonstrated better than any coach in the modern NBA, the ability to manage the circus in a way that benefits his team. Rather than condemn his actions as petty and annoying, we should be asking Nate to take notes. Seriously, what coach doesn’t demand calls for his team, and then stand happily by in silence as unjust calls come in his favor? Jackson knows he is intimidating and respected, and uses it to his advantage. As a DIE HARD Blazer fan (yeah, that’s right, I said it again) I hope more than anything that Nate picks up a trick or two about managing such a high profile situation. With any luck, he too will be answering questions in a Finals press conference within the next few years.

And on another note, isn’t the point of a string such as this one to debate? As the moderator, shouldn’t you be embarrassing such a discussion rather than lazily pretending I am a Laker fan who wandered into this forum? How about actually addressing the comments you disagree with, rather than rallying the sheep to collectively make fun?

by bigjmoney on Jun 10, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

In defense of Dave

Dave has always erred on the side of not complaining about the refs…I remember there was a game that (maybe somebody remembers which game it was) that everybody in Bedge was irate over the reffing of a certain game that he Blazers played but Dave wrote an excellent post about how we shouldn’t use that as an excuse. And I believe Coach Nate also mentioned that as well in the post-game interviews.
So yes, here at Bedge we might harp on the refs…but I don’t think that Coach Nate or Dave would ever stoop that low.

I didn't mean to turn you on

by dukedee on Jun 9, 2008 10:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh, I wouldn't say I'd be completely beyond complaining about the refs...

if I thought my team got screwed. But then again my team didn’t just get bailed out IN ITS VERY LAST SERIES by a mistaken non-call so obvious that the league felt compelled to apologize about it. And my team didn’t shoot those 25 free throws in the fourth quarter back in 2002. And my team’s center wasn’t allowed to dominate opponents by clearing them out of the way with a forearm and then dunking. And I wasn’t able, in a tightly-contested Western Conference Finals series in 2000, to tell my five-foul wearing center to go back in the game with 10 minutes left and play completely aggressively because (and I quote) "they won’t call a sixth foul on you". And my all-world guard didn’t clearly push off in order to get the most important game-winner of his career. And he wasn’t allowed to complain to the refs with impunity, including berating them right in the middle of the floor, because there was zero chance of him ever getting tossed. Nor were my highlight-reel guards allowed to travel in order to get half their dunks. Nor did they generally get a foul whistled in their favor every time they were sneezed upon. Do I need to continue?

Phil Jackson complaining he hasn’t gotten enough favorable calls is like Britney Spears complaining she hasn’t gotten enough fame and money compared to her talent level.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 9, 2008 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Torn

Like any good Blazer fan, I can’t stand Phil Jackson…. but the reality is, he does what he does because it works. He was the opposing team’s coach for the two biggest meltdowns in franchise history (Game 7 WCF 2000, Game 6 CS 1992… ‘92 was a choke/coaching blunder, but, as Dave correctly points out above, ‘00 was a robbery), so, in my mind, I’ve always entertained the thought of punching him in the face if I ever saw him on the street (to quote a favorite saying of Bill Simmons).

The guy plays mind games, pure and simple (remember when he called us a bunch of jackals?). He went after Pierce for faking his injury in game 1, now he’s taking on the refs in game 2. If he loses another game, he’ll find another axe to grind (conspiracy for KG? Favor for Danny Ainge? Who knows).

The reason I’m torn is because I’m developing an equally deep level of animosity, in a Bowen/Ginobili type of way, for Paul Pierce. The next time I see a close up of his whiny, pre-pubescent, injury-faking face, I’m going to smash my TV with a bat (not the hi-def one, though, that would be stupid).

So, you know, no matter who wins, one of those two people will lose, so that will make me happy. Win-win.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 9, 2008 11:00 PM PDT reply actions  

I could probably have found a better place to add this

But hasn’t any of the people claiming Pierce faked his injury ever had something hurt real bad at first, you think the worst, and it turned out okay? I’ve had that with my back, knee, ankle, etc… it feels like ya did something un-good, you go down, after a lil’ bit you realize that you’re actually A-Okay. That’s all I saw with the Pierce injury; it just takes some time to really see how hurt ya are.

This happened with Roy this year also—remember when his knee buckled under him and we all thought he was a goner? He even got carried off and all of ‘dat. Well, at halftime he was fine. I doubt Roy was faking it.

And I doubt Pierce was faking an injury to add drama to the Finals. I’m sure an injury was the last thing he wanted at that time, and faking it to miss important minutes out on the floor wouldn’t even make sense.

I’m not blasting you per se, Cactus, just the idea that Pierce outright faked whatever pain he felt when he went down.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 10, 2008 4:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's teh pain killers

they do teh body good.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stop picking on ratbastird

At least HIS father didn’t blow a planet to pieces.

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 10, 2008 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ha! I KNEW you were Jackson's son.

The Sith fruit does not fall far from the loom.

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 10, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Technically speaking

Vader didn’t really blow the planet to pieces. That was at Grand Moff Tarkin’s behest, and Vader gave no sign of encouragement or approbation. Just sayin’.

by BlazersOrBust on Jun 10, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've always thought we should hire him as coach

I find your lack of rebounding…disturbing.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 10, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pierce = Faker

Why I think he faked (or at least wildly exaggerated) the injury:

1. Because I have been watching him roll around in pain the entire playoffs, particularly when he drives, lowers his head and shoulder into an opponent (which usually causes his headband to go wayward, heightening the “I got fouled” effect), and doesn’t get the call,and then he takes five minutes to get up after a whistle (if there is a whistle);

2. Reading the article from a knee specialist (sorry I don’t have the link but I saw it in here before) on what were the possible causes/subsequent results of Pierce’s “knee pop”.

But really I’m saying the same thing regarding Pierce and Jackson - the NBA rewards that type of behavior, so they keep doing it.

Part of me would be thrilled if the refs decided to give the Celtics and even larger free throw discrepancy as a result of the Zen Master’s whining. That would put a stop to his tired act.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 10, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, no it wouldn't

“Part of me would be thrilled if the refs decided to give the Celtics and even larger free throw discrepancy as a result of the Zen Master’s whining. That would put a stop to his tired act.”

If there was a bigger discrepency this game 3, AT L* of all places, there would probably be some point shaving type lawsuit and the refs would end up getting fired and fined. And 2008 Playoffs would forever be tainted. How terrible would that be for KG and the Celtics. I can see two sides to who wins this championship, the blazers being able to play the world champs more times in the regular season if the L*kers win, and a deserving KG getting his ring if the C’s win. So I don’t really care one way or the other. That brings me to just want a good, fun to watch basketball game. Let them play, but make it even. (no, don’t call fouls to make the score closer..) But there should by no means be a 30 FT discrepency in a game.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life,(of the Blazers), of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." - Albert Einstein

by BlazerandBeaverBELIEVER on Jun 10, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

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