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Fan Hatred and its fallout

A number of posts recently have indicated that the repeated success of a team is guaranteed to generate hatred nationally from other fans. I have been thinking about this and believe there are some nationally hated teams that share some characteristics we should consider.

Star-divide

1. Teams with owners (Cuban, Dolan and Buss) who habitually buy and trade players without regard to the luxury tax and fail mostly to develop their own players. This is seen as a competitive advantage that other teams cannot achieve and therefore resent. The Blazers in our dark days were in this category as well (Allen) which contributed to the focus nationally on the off-court troubles of the Blazer players.

2. The extensive coverage of large-market teams in Chicago, LA and New York areas has raised the focus nationally on these teams - especially when the teams do not merit such coverage by their current record.

3. Bandwagon fans across the country who adopt a big-market team in the good years and flaunt this to others around them who root for the home team. You can see this phenomenon  with the baseball Red Sox and Yankees. Until the Red Sox won their first World Series they had few fans sporting their gear in other ball parks while the Yankees often had as many fans in another ball park as the home team. After Boston won that ratio began to reverse and after last year's championship Boston became the new 'darling', particularly among Yankee haters. The water cooler talk becomes obnoxious.

1. There are likely more you can add here. What are your additions?

Winning championships does not in itself generate hatred. San Antonio has won more than anyone this last decade and my perception is that their fans are gracious and they are not hated. When we play San Antonio my feelings are more of fear for their talent than anger over their success, Utah has been successful as has Phoenix but and others but not hatred on the scale of LAL, NYK or CHI.

Being in large markets does not in itself generate hatred. New Jersey Nets and LAC do not seem to generate much emotion nationally even when NJN were in the conference finals.

2.  Another question is do we want to revert to the fan behavior that led to the ugly national hatred? How do you feel? Is hatred of the Blazers really inevitable?

 

 

 

Poll
3. Do you think fans can influence national perception and should we reassess our attitudes?
I don't think fans have anything to do with being hated so I don't want to change a thing
8 votes
I think local fans are part of the perception of national hatred and I still don't care
15 votes
I do agree that fans influence the national media and hatred and I think we should each pause to consider ourselves and work to generate graciousness to losers
33 votes

56 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 31 comments

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As I recall...

.....when the Great Northwest was endowed with the top two draft picks in 2007 there was a lot of bitterness / anger emanating from the eastern seaboard, as if all that talent would somehow be wasted in our small market areas. I hesitate to say it was “hatred” though.

I could see some genuine hatred for Portland rising up over the years however, if the present trend continues: high future draft picks accumulate, talent continues to simmer and develop overseas, veteran stars are attracted to a winning program, management keeps a fluid, long range plan in place, team improves every year and (the clincher), fans don’t get complacent but actually more rabid with each passing year. In essence, the rich get richer. Who doesn’t hate that.

by Dr Dave on Jun 29, 2008 2:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Polarizing players

I used to be on the Laker hating wagon, but now that Rick Fox is gone, Kobe has improved his public image, and no more Slava Medvedenko, I have a hard time generating a lot of hatred towards that team. I now really dislike the Celtics, but not anywhere near the hatred I had for the lakers.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 3:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This Is THE Best Comment I've Ever Read on the BEdge

I’ve only been reading for 6 months or so, but whatever. I’d even rec this if it were a fanpost. Nicely done!

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 29, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"No, you're not imagining things: Black America is ecstatic." -Errin Haines, Associated Press writer

by Junior Del Norte on Jun 29, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points made Junior

it’s silly to live your life based on what other people think. But no matter what, we should strive to be classier than anyone. That’s just a good life motto.

"Beards--they grow on you"

by prezofdeath on Jun 29, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

You can rec it.

Click on the “actions” thingy at the bottom of the reply.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 29, 2008 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's some really interesting stuff in this thread...

...and I was particularly interested in your anecdotes regarding the perception of the Blazers nationally. This is one of those subjects that doesn’t much cross my mind, given that this is a small-market team. I would never have guessed Blazer merch was such a hit with the people of Trinidad and Tobago. The things you learn! (By the way, I remember how delighted I was twenty years ago to see a Blazers jacket in the Run-D.M.C. “Christmas in Hollis” video. Affirmation from hippest NYC!).

In response to the OP, I don’t think fan hatred of the Blazers is inevitable. The team lacks the sort of arrogance that begs for that sort of backlash: Oden is exuberant, LMA is a stoic professional, Brandon is quietly confident, etc. Spiritually, they’re more like the Spurs rather than, say, the Lakers of the eighties/early nineties or the early 00s (tens? I think that’s the correct designation). All of the heartbreaking losses aside, it was so easy to dislike those teams: arrogant owner, arrogant famous fans (bless Billy Crystal for choosing, and sticking to, the Clips), arrogant coaches (Riley and Jackson, smug to the core. BTW, save that “Zen” hype for the next sucker, Phil. If you were truly “Zen,” you wouldn’t concern yourself with such trivial matters as pro sports), and, finally, arrogant players (Magic, Shaq, Bryant, Horry, Fox. Others might say Kareem, but I always respected him, and still do). With the major pieces falling into place, in the coming years I think the team will acquit itself nicely with fans nationally and internationally, and our major job as fans will be not to rub things in, tempting as it may occasionally.

by Modal Rounder on Jun 29, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So how should a warrior fan respond to comment?

I wouldn’t say the warriors just camped out at the 3 point line. They did lead the league in fast break points and were near the top in points in the paint as well. I think any nba fan would have the warriors near the top of a list of teams they enjoy watching.

by houseofprime on Jun 29, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True enough

Obviously the 3-point line statement was a bit of an exaggeration, though I did mention the fast break aspect of Golden State’s game when I compared it to aspects of streetball. It was those particular fans I was around that led me to being annoyed by Warriors fans. Warriors games are enjoyable to watch. I watched every Warriors game this season on FSN and I went to a game at the Oracle. I liked the Warriors until I dormed with 5 annoying fans. It’s nothing against the team, just a select group of fans. Everything mentioned only applies to what I experienced living with them No offense intended.

"No, you're not imagining things: Black America is ecstatic." -Errin Haines, Associated Press writer

by Junior Del Norte on Jun 29, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A green comment

I didn’t think I could do it.

"No, you're not imagining things: Black America is ecstatic." -Errin Haines, Associated Press writer

by Junior Del Norte on Jun 29, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all about freeing your mind man

You’re like a soul surfer; you’re the Chandler of Blazers Edge. (Not the guy from Friends.)

<-;-)

by tominhawaii on Jun 30, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you left out an important factor:

What is the perceived character of that community/city regardless of basketball?

Trust me, one of the reasons Blazer fans hate the L[xxx]rs so much is the dynamic of Portland’s regard for L.A.
It’s not JUST the L[xxx]rs we have a problem with; we’ve got a very strong antipathy toward Los Angeles itself,
partly borne out of the Southern California roots of many Portland residents.

But even outside of how Portland views L.A., there’s just this QUALITY to Los Angeles,
perceived not just nationwide, but internationally.
For many people, there’s a real attraction to the California lifestyle,
the image of Hollywood and Rock’n’Roll and babes and celebrities and so on.
There are also a lot of people who simply hold up L.A. as the ideal for What To Avoid And Never Become.
These twin regards spill over to L[xxx]r fans AND L]xxx]r haters outside of L.A.

And so as applies to outside-of-Portland regard for the Blazers and how Blazer fans affect that,
I think the bigger dynamic is how Portlanders behave and are perceived by the outside world.
And right now, I think that perception is largely positive, and the Blazers are very lovable for that.

To cite two examples which have cropped up recently here at the Bedge
that explain how community image affects perception of a team and its fans:

1) Remember that footage of multiple incidents of L[xxx]r fans assaulting Celtics fans
at a Finals viewing party (of a game played in Boston) in the Forum?
Didn’t many of us (myself included) link that thuggery to the wider perception
of Los Angelenos as bad seeds, thugs, rioters, bandwagoneers, and party animals?
This isn’t just a L[xxx]r fan thing; this is a L.A. resident thing.

2) A few comments lately (which I enjoyed participating in myself) regarding Bulls fans:
Fat guys with Mustaches (or, as I said, mustaches with fat guys attached), like the SNL “Da Bulls” skit.
Well, isn’t that just more of a stereotype of Chicagoans in general, independent of teams or sports?

This is a fine facet of how sports provide a way for a community to come together and feel like a cohesive whole:
When outsiders want to register an opinion on a city’s character, we do it through their sports team and its fans.
As Portland and her citizens are regarded in general, so shall the Blazers and their fans be regarded.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 29, 2008 4:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point but

has the Portland community really changed that much in seven years?

I do think your point of stereotypes is valid and attached to teams. Remembering the riots in LA (and elsewhere) tend to make people touch their fear and most don’t like to do that. But is this hatred or simply finding mud that sticks?

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jun 29, 2008 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever it is, it IS stereotyping.

And it’s not necessarily negative; I think the way nobody “hates” the Spurs, but is bored by them,
reflects the fact that San Antonio doesn’t HAVE a reputation/image in the wider consciousness.

And I think that’s something that was always a weird dynamic of the Jail Blazers, at least in the eyes of non-Portlanders:
Aside from the pot thing, it didn’t really jibe with people’s idea of what Oregon or Portland is like.

A tie-dyed, hirsute Bill Walton? Now, THAT resonated with people’s idea of Oregon!
But JR Rider? I think a lot of the Jail Blazer stuff really struck people as not just wrong and bad,
but a sort of wrong and bad that was very un-Oregonlike in its nature.
Ergo, there was this air of betrayal and misfittedness (THERE’S a word for ya!) as well as decrepitude (and ANOTHER).

The Jail Blazers weren’t just BAD; it was also whistled for Unportlandlike Conduct (again, pot smoking aside).

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 29, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t have a problem with the SoCal transplants per se… I’d say that they are a huge net plus overall for the region (especially if you have owned property for awhile). I just get annoyed when they come up here and whine about the rain. Ummm, hello?

1. Would you prefer wildfires and earthquakes? If so, there’s the door.
2. Remember how you loved the green scenery when you came up here? It didn’t get that way by having 300 days of sun each year.
3. You don’t have to shovel rain, (and blah blah blah all the other cliches about rain).
4. It’s not like the rainy reputation is a big secret.
5. Best non-NBA season weather in the country is right here. And the weather is always nice whenever we have an NBA Championship parade. Book it.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 29, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's pretty much inevitable

But the degree is variable. Let’s take SA, for example. As much as I pull against those guys, they’re not very hateworthy. The thing is, it’s easy to focus on fringe details when a team wins often and is in the limelight. On the Blazers, you can look at the big dogs (Roy, Oden, LMA) and wonder what’s to hate, but once we start winning, maybe someone will hate on us because Rudy flops (maybe), or because Roy is too nice (and therefore annoying?), or because Oden gets superstar favoritism (hopefully). My reasons for disliking SA are pretty dumb… they already win plenty, but Duncan wines after every call (as if that’s uncommon among stars… I’ve seen Roy do it, and hope it doesn’t become a trend, but won’t hold it against him), and Manu flops and should shave his melon to lose that ridiculous bald spot, and Bowen is flat out dirty, etc.

And keep in mind, SA isn’t even a sexy team. You get a Kobe on the roster, and now you have bandwagon fans jumping on right and left nationwide, and now everyone else is even more annoyed. If the Blazers become exciting to watch, and Oden is the personality and talent he appears to be so far, and Roy continues his clutch play, then that equals more bandwagon fans, which also equals more annoyance from fans of other teams and other players.

by shralpster on Jun 29, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sad but true

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jun 29, 2008 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm torn about SA

I truly despise Bowen and Manu, but I like and respect most everyone else on their roster. And Popovich is definitely underrated… wonder what he’ll do with a mediocre team.

Their fans feel especially obnoxious to me, but maybe that’s because I still have memories of the old baseline bums. And I’m sure we seem obnoxious too, along with other one sport towns like Utah, Sac, and I assume OKC will have a similar feel.

And I try to keep in mind that SA will probably be our “expansion partner” someday if and when we get an MLB franchise (which at this rate could be 50 years, but I digress), so I feel compelled to secretly root for the city’s success if it can help us.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 29, 2008 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

He can’t shave his head. I don’t think his nose would look good with a bald head. He would look like this:

<-;-)

by tominhawaii on Jun 30, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we seem to care so much as to how we are

perceived as fans by other fan bases?

There will always be a couple of misfits in the bunch that can taint the overall public view. Personally I do not care what a NY fan thinks of us as a collective fan base.

I will do my part to be a “good sport” and call it good. My definition of a good sport may not match another’s view. Me, I love good, fun loving trash talking. It seems that some other’s in here think it is ‘uncivilized’. Not trash talking to intimidate, just the banter.

However, I will play my hardest and if you beat me fair and square I will shake your hand and congratulate you on a game well played. I will not pout, sulk or throw the ball. That to me is being a good sport and that is how I carry myself as a fan. That is my code of conduct.

If I don’t fulfill someone elses expectation of a good sport or a good fan so be it.

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Jun 29, 2008 5:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we "care so much".

I think we’re just mildly, casually curious.

And given some of the praise heaped on this team by non-Blazer people the past few years,
I think a lot of us are a little confused and somewhat suspicious.
It’s a very Portland thing: When outsiders show any appreciation or respect, we just kinda wonder what the catch is.
Compliments confuse us.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 29, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the fallout over the Whitsett era

was a “broken economic model”. Had that phrase been uttered next year it might be Portland experiencing Seattle’s anguish.

What fans in other cities say does affect how Portland businesses sponsor and how “In” it is to be seen in the Rose Garden.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jun 29, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fanpost material, maybe...

What changed in the last two years to go from that phrase, which led me to seriously consider giving up on the Blazers before they gave up on me, to where we are now?

For me it began to shift when they dealt for Roy and Aldridge. Then when I saw that team play as hard as it did in spite of not winning as much as they wanted to, I was drawn back in. Paul Allen Buying the Rose Garden was a huge move in my mind because it reversed an earlier stance that ticked me off (that stance being a billionaire declaring bankruptcy when he could easily buy the freakin’ arena.)

Obviously the number one pick and Oden drew a host of people back but wasn’t that really just icing on the cake?

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Jun 29, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah,

And this is also why I have always defended Jack. He was the sparkplug on the team with Roy and LMA as rookies. He was seriously angry when they were officially eliminated from the playoffs that year, in spite of the fact that everybody had written them off about a month before. It is a bit disappointing that he won’t be a part of what we hope will be a fun ride to the top although they did make a good value trade.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Jun 29, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm hmm that change around in Allen

had a lot to do with Coach Nate as well as fans became more convinced that there was real change here. But that proves my point. Fans do matter and the fans in Portland were embarrassed with the team. That embarrassment was over more than one thing but the sum was enough to drop the revenues into deep red. I think Paul Allen has sunk more than a half-billion of his dollars into the team and arena. That is a lot of money even for a billionaire. He had a right to squawk.

One catalyst for the change that is often ignored is Henry Abbott of True Hoop. He has had a national following for years and his excellence and his love for the Blazers has caused other national writers to reassess their vitriol. You are right about trying hard. But that was a consequence of the new sheriff, “Sarge”, and his clean-up of the team. Greg was the icing and we were loving the team long before then. Yes and I agree with you that Jarrett was a key to this also. He demanded the others get with the program and it does help to have a player who can lead with the coach.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jun 30, 2008 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's only a part of the problem

Ideally you don’t want other fans, teams, or the media talking about anything other than the basketball your team plays . If they hate us cause we’re good, that’s fine. That’s expected. That’s respect. If they hate us because one of our players spit on a fan (How did he get that TNT studio position anyway?) or because our fans do something like throw beer on other fans who come into the stadium it’s completely a different thing. We can’t help if they hate us or not, but we do have some control over why they would.

This issue goes deeper than just how we are viewed by other fans. When Eagles fans cheered when Micheal Irving was carried off the field on a stretcher, the media didn’t question the fans about what it was like. They questioned the team. Is that fair to put this team any team for that matter, but especially this one in that type of position? How do you think they would feel? Maybe a little betrayed? Maybe like they are holding up more than their fair share of the bargain? How do you think Jack feels right now about all the hard work he put in to this team?

It would also reflect on the fan experience. Would you want to take your kids to a game where all the people are acting like, um, appropriate spot for a curse, inappropriate website (and post)? How about bringing your wife or girlfriend, or boyfriend out and having to try and ignore or explain the other people around you? Think they would want to do it again if you were trying turn them on to the Blazers, or even better, trying to present an argument to buy season tickets?

The only people it doesn’t affect are the people who are being disrespectful because they aren’t taking other people’s perspective into consideration. That is why I feel it is necessary to let them know that their behavior is bothering you.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 5:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said and reasoned

The issue of fan behavior at games is a really big one. It is hard for some fans to convince our spouses to commit the money and time to go to games with us if the behavior is boorish. The example of Michael Irving is an excellent one. If i lived in Philly there is no way I would buy tickets to the Eagles – same for Oakland. All of my kids grew up going to Blazer games and only once was there inappropriate behavior and that by the visiting San Diego chicken who snatched a real baby from the crowd and handled it roughly. Fans were appreciative of the team’s effort and respectful of the other team’s players (that was before K*by).

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Jun 30, 2008 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

boorish

such a good replacement for the curse that I hinted about.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 9:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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