Trade Rumor: David Lee for Steve Blake?
Rumor source here:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?hd=20080629&lc=NBA#STORY_9771
I'm not exactly sure what to think about this deal. One the one hand, Steve Blake is the perfect fit for us right now. He provides stability and a steady hand for the next couple seasons while Bayless is learning the ropes, and showing us what he can do. Beyond that, Blake becomes valuable as an experienced backup, bringing good outside shooting, and hard work and energy off the bench. How could we even think about trading that away?
On the other hand, we'd be getting back David Lee. That's a heck of an upgrade in terms of talent. Lee plays the PF in NY, but could easily slide over and be our starting SF. Plus, we do have a glut of point guards right now, making Blake at least somewhat expendable.
What do you think? Does this deal make sense for Portland?
0 recs |
77 comments
Comments
i said no.
David Lee, though energetic, would be 3rd or 4th as a PF here, and I don’t think he’s got a SF’s offensive capabilities.
I don’t see the benefit, unless there were other parts moving as well.
We don't NEED the draft. -Mortimer 6/18
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 29, 2008 7:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
PF seems to be our deepest spot, LMA getting 30 minutes a night leaves not much time for Channing (A darn good player), Ike Diogu (Who I think should get some PT) and Outlaw (Who may be playing more SF than PF, but still).
So taking our starting PG for a back up PF doesn’t make tons of sense unless its part of a bigger trade…
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
by rmcdougall on Jun 29, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring in Lee, move out Frye...
.................................. I am now, always have been, always will be, and advocate of the POWER FORWARD position. Not the 6’10” Auxiliary Shooting Forward. Not the 6’6” Smallball Speedy Forward. The POWER FORWARD. Large man. Big butt. Knows how to use large body and big butt. Rebounds like a horse. Deadly from 5 feet in.
DAVID LEE.
Mr. Blake is a fine person and did a great job as PG last year. But we all know what our future guard situation looks like, do we not. In review:
ROY —BAYLESS -- RUDY
So how many minutes do you have for Blake, really?
Either you move Blake and give Rudy significant minutes at Guard, or you have a logjam with Travis and Martell and Rudy at the 3.
Vote now.
Yeah, it makes more sense for Blake to get shipped, doesn’t it?
Of course, this is a rumor rumor rumor—and KP has said he’s sitting with what he’s got. But I would REALLY like to see the backup PF situation rectified. And this seems like a way to make that happen.
Pick up Lee for Blake; move Frye for a 1st Round pick…
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 8:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Per the original post...
.......................... NO WAY that Lee is a Small Forward, just like Travis is no Power Forward. He’d be LMA’s backup.
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think Bayless will start this year?
I doubt it.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 29, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the starting backcourt (in a sans Blake situation) = Roy + Rudy.
.................................. by the end of the year it will be Bayless + Roy, with Rudy as 6th man.
This implies the loss of Blake.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
thats why it frustrates me that we traded away Joey Dorsey, he would have been perfect for that role on our team
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Jun 29, 2008 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diogu
Fits that role pretty well.
Have you ever seen a horse rebound? Terribly difficult to do with no hands.
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
by rmcdougall on Jun 29, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but we got Diogu
Doesn’t Diogu play that role now? Ans isn’t Diogu at least a somewhat proven commodity, as opposed to Dorsey who hasn’t played an NBA minute yet?
Winning is everything.
by MT Suit on Jun 29, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll let you know.
I haven’t seen Diogu.
I have seen Lee.
I like Lee.
I like Lee A LOT!!!
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Lee Run?
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
by rmcdougall on Jun 29, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're talking about battle tanks, not sprint cars...
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now you can see him
Leaving this blank 'til I think of something funny
by Zaron5551 on Jun 29, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, thanks!
.......................... Here’s a short summary of Diogu’s highlights: scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, whoops a jump shot from 10, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, block, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, block, scores in the paint from inside 5, scores in the paint from inside 5, jumpshot.
A little out of order and a bit facetious but—THIS GUY IS A POWER FORWARD.
He does not have big hops, you can tell that. Maybe a bit undersized.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's pretty small 6'7", 6'8" but has a pretty big wingspan
Leaving this blank 'til I think of something funny
by Zaron5551 on Jun 29, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My belief is that we never had Dorsey...
.............................. the trade predated the selection, which was made on behalf of another team.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We never had Arthur or Dorsey
They were Schrodinger’s Power Forwards.
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
by rmcdougall on Jun 29, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey good one r-mac
Schrodinger’s cat was the one that wasn’t there.
Winning is everything.
by MT Suit on Jun 29, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a misreading of Schroedinger's cat
The whole point is that the cat is in a superposition of alive or dead. With our 2nd round draft picks we always had them or did not have them so there was no superposition.
I guess for basketball it is good enough.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee is no SF.
I find it hard to believe we would turn the reins over completely to an unproven rookie. Lee would be nice, be we’re pretty stacked at PF right now. If they make a move it’ll be to improve at SF.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 29, 2008 8:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t wrap my mind around most of these trade deals because where don’t we have a glut of talent? Where can we deal one position for another and not have too many?
3-4 PG
2 SG
2 SF
3-4 PF
3 C
I agree that we have a lot of PG, but no matter where we go with a trade, there will be a lot of players at any one position on the roster. Nice problem to have, really.
My ignorance is my greatest weapon
by shenanigans on Jun 29, 2008 8:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's more helpful to view things this way...
................................ borrowing some terminology from America’s Game:
1/2/3—in football, the so-called “skill” positions
4/5—in football, the linemen
The Blazers have currently got one poser on the offensive line, Channing Frye, who envisions himself a 15 foot jumpshooter. THAT IS NOT THE FUNCTION OF A POWER FORWARD. It’s nice to have that ability as a bonus, but the basic job description involves GETTING LOW AND RUCKING. And while Frye (against all odds) actually DID show himself able of playing like that during the last 10 games when Joel was out, it is not his style of play and he should be sent elsewhere where he can play like that. LMA is already a “soft” PF, we don’t need 2. We need a certified MASHER to be used situationally.
The 1/2/3 currently has about 6 guys of 9 man rotation: Roy, Rudy, Bayless, Marty, Travis, Blake.
The 4/5 currently sits at 4: Oden, LMA, Pryz, Frye.
This implies no Diogu; if he’s a player (I can’t speak to that) it makes 11 guys.
You’ve gotta have at least 4 legitimate 4/5 players due to foul trouble. Fouls happen in the paint.
If Blake were traded for Lee and Frye vaporized for a draft pick, things would still be a little heavy, but that would seem a more sensible allocation of “skill” and “line” players.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot RLEC.
Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.
by Blazerholic on Jun 29, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back ups
You also need somebody to play Power foward if there are injury’s. So even thou you have your nine Man rotation you have to have two or three or even four other players that are capable of comming in and giving you good Minutes. And that being said its nice to have one of these kind of players at all your rotation spots. So IMHO I think we keep Frye and Diogu both and at S.F we have Webster and Outlaw and maybe Batum at S.G. we Roy ,Rudy and maybe Webster can play the S.G. If we had an injury and at Point Guard we got Blake,Bayless,Sergio And who knows Koponen may turn out to be Bayless’ back up in the future. We may need that extra player at any given time because of injury’s. And blake is a proven player would come in very handy if there were injury god forbid hopefuly everyone stays healthy. And we also have RLEC . we all need to remember its an 82 game season and thats not including the preseason. So its nice to have player that can play and give good minutes if somebody twist an ankle its like having insurance. Later as the season go’s on before the trade dead line we will have a better idea which players will need to move for better role players.But as it stands we have very good role players rihgt now in Frye, Przybilla, Outlaw, Blake, Raef, and hopefuly Rudy, Bayless, Batum, sergio and Diogu can be what were looking for as role players this season.
by billyjoejack on Jun 29, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are old school
and everyone knows that new is better than old.
J/K
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The playoffs proved it yet again...
.................................. the teams that advance are the ones that can take it to the rack. You take perimeter jumpers all night, you are 1 and done.
You’ve gotta be able to Odenize and Pryzbilliate the Tony Parkers of the league. And no effette 15 foot jumpshooter named Channing is gonna be doing that for ya… Book it.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i say ,well idk david does play hard ,but trading steve blake will pretty much leave us with sergio as the only expirienced player at his position with the addition kopenen(who im really liking and gunning for to make the team)and bayless being a rookie , idk
also if he did play SF martell would either have to be traded or get little to no playing time (same could be for david lee if martell backed travis up) i think if we do trade i think we should trade the ike diougu dude with steve (i really dont want him to go but some1 has to )
and keep channing cuz from what ive seen in interviews he seems to be a pretty vocal kid ,and a really good example who never puts his head down,so if he gets traded im afraid it might mess up our chemistry,so if some1 would have to go i prefer it being ike cuz hes hasnt played for us in which case we wouldnt miss him and thats one of our problems being blazer fans is letting our players go.
by blazerholic5 on Jun 29, 2008 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Koponen
I agree and also am gunning for this kid, I have liked him alot since they drafted him.
by billyjoejack on Jun 29, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hardly a rumor
It reads more like someone in the new york media saying “hey, we need a PG. Lee is our only asset, let’s see who would be a possible trading partner. why look, portland just drafted bayless and also has rodriguez. the salaries could work, let’s suggest that as possible”.
I think it’s possible this swap was discussed on draft day as part of a deal involving draft picks maybe. But I don’t think there is anyway KP is going to send Nate into the season with Bayless and Sergio as his 2 point guards. Blake is not going anywhere.
by douglast on Jun 29, 2008 9:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that said
IF Bayless starts strong, and Sergio or PKo prove they are quality backups, Blake could be moved at the deadline. Barring that, we could just forgo his option for the 09-10 season.
Unless we bring in a new veteran PG this summer, there is exactly 0.0% chance we trade away the only proven one we have.
by douglast on Jun 29, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It won't be Jerryd and Sergio.
In fact, I’ll be surprised if Sergio’s still around come fall if he doesn’t get his head on straight.
If we trade Blake, it will be Roy + Bayless at the PG spot.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Correct.
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's still 2 guys who are unproven at the spot
I say NO WAY we start fall without a proven, veteran NBA point guard. he may not start, but we are going to have one on the roster for sure. You need to have a contingency, you need to have at least one ‘pure’ point who is proven at the NBA level.What if Roy is hurt and Bayless isn’t ready? We are going to have Sergio or Rudy running the point? No way KP and Nate take that risk.
I’ve said all along, by the end or even middle of the season, Blake very well could be expendable. But there are a LOT of questions to answer before then. there is no way we start the season without him or a proven veteran PG to replace him.
by douglast on Jun 29, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with you, that's the thinking...
........................... I personally am willing to roll the dice on Bayless, based solely on the fact that everybody and their dog are freaking out on his ability. Realistically, the goal of the Blazers this year is to MAKE the playoffs, not to win a championship. A rookie PG can get you there, particularly given the fact that it’s fallacious to look at the “skill” situation as “point guard,” “shooting guard,” “small forward.” More like, it’s 6 more or less interchangable pieces to fill 3 slots on the floor. Brandon can carry the ball and will; Bayless will be okay…
Still, what you say is true, KP is very patient and conservative (despite his draft day histrionics), he will not go into the season without Mr. Blake as a “contingency.”
Pity, because I REALLY like Lee’s game, and he is gettable.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm?
Lee would be interesting but there is a glut and I think Ike would have to go. Trading Frye would be stupid and KP isn’t. it is unlikely that Blake would be traded at this time but Lee is a talent and worthwhile guy so it’s possible.
I think most of you are underestimating Sergio. The guy is driven to succeed and is working on correcting those areas that he is lacking. The reason Nate and KP aren’t letting go of him is not just cause Rudy’s coming and that will help but because of that crazy word UPSIDE. Sergio when playing at his best is doom bringer to other teams. You can’t stop him. That’s something you go into the draft and find and develop. We have it on our team now and now we help it to solidify itself and become a mega weapon of the bench.
by Blazersaurus on Jun 29, 2008 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
KP likes Frye's potential. He wants another year to check him out.
............................... There’s no way this trade is happening, although I like it a lot.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we did it
KP would have to have more trades ready, maybe sergio instead of blake? Sergio seems like the right type of player for the D’Antoni game.
The pictures kinda small, but Im giving the C's a big thumbs down
by Blazermaniac77 on Jun 29, 2008 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Given his shooting numbers, it's more likely he's gonna be out of the league.
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on Jun 29, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other piece of Diogu is he’s often injured and hasn’t even been available for 1/2 the games in any one of his first 3 years. That’s not likely to attract any big time offers. At the same time, I think trading Blake is premature. Granted, the future looks like a three guard rotation of Roy/Bayless/Ferandez, but we’re not in the future yet. We have two rookies that can use some good floor coaching from Blake, and my bet is we keep Blake for several more years given he’s a solid and intelligent, if not spectuacular player. And, he gives us a pure point if and when we need him. And finally, all it takes is one injury and we’re suddenly very thin in the three guard rotation. Remember, it was Jack we dealt – but if could’ve been Blake. Maybe later – just not right now.
A more likely scenerio is written up in Hoopsworld today in their “Mid-Day Report” : The Retooling Begins” segment. I don’t know if I agree right now, but they think that the only likely scenerio will be to package a combo of either Diogu/Frye, with Sergio, with Webster, and the get a starting SF. Outlaw would take the #2 SF spot, and Batum the #3 on the third team. Frankly, I think it’s all a little early given the cap space/LaFrentz we have coming and the idea I have that the Blazers will let Webster/Outlaw play at SF for 40-50 games before making a move there – if they make one at all.. And, they don’t need to rush into anything. But we’ll see.
by Eben Calder on Jun 29, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoopsworld makes rumors up all the time
This has no legs. NEVER EVER TRUST HOOPSWORLD.
Blake will be the starting PG for the Blazers.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on Jun 29, 2008 10:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This sounds very similar to a trade mentioned on draft day...
...where we would send a “backcourt player” to NY for a “frontcourt player”.
Hoopsworld was only one place where this deal was mentioned, so I don’t know if they can be credited with making it up, or just spreading it around.
The draft-day dealings are quite possibly where the rumor comes from, originally.
Given what actually happened on draft day, however, I think that this is probably a dead idea at this point. Someone in NY is just floating the details of their draft-day discussions in order to boost Lee’s trade value.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way GM's have been fawning over Lee the last couple years
I seriously NY would even entertain this deal. They can do better.
by calebEOC on Jun 29, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Two years ago, yes
Today, no. Blake is too valuable for us right now with Bayless on board, and we are loaded with quality big men. I am a big Lee fan, but we don’t need him. We need Blake.
So we decided just to call ourselves "The Band". -Richard Manuel
by koyote on Jun 29, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And
if you go down the list on Hoopsworld, there is a rumor of Frye going to Chicago.
by RipCity on Jun 29, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lee is a more valuable piece in general,
But this deal doesn’t make us better. We need the steady PG play Blake can give us. He’s the ultimate backup PG.
Now, if we were going to package Frye + Martell/Trout for a solid veteran PG (Hinrich for example), you might have something there.
by AndrewD on Jun 29, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tempting...
It would probably be a good long-term deal theoretically. Lee is a bit of a statistical marvel, being ridiculously efficient. He’s one of the few Knicks that Knicks fans give a damn about. I’m guessing Lee’s trade value is far far higher than that of Blake.
If that’s all we had to give up, I actually think I’d go for it. It’s not a 100% yes, obviously. Blake’s our best point guard right now (unless Bayless is more NBA ready than predicted). We’d be getting younger. Lee is a bad defender. Still, it is just too tempting because of the disparity in talent. Lee is reportedly a good guy too.
by poster on Jun 29, 2008 10:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tempting, I agree
Just to have another trading chip, David Lee would be nice. He is a horrible defender, but a terrific rebounder and plays to his strengths on offense.
Of course, we can’t trade Frye to NY, and I also believe David Lee wants a nice sized extension pretty soon. I don’t think we wanna do that. When was he drafted? ‘06? Maybe it’s far off enough to not be a problem.
Blake is just so damn solid and cheap, that I wouldn’t wanna give him up since we KNOW he’ll be ok being a 3rd string PG if he’s in a good situation—or at least I hope so. Maybe now with Bayless, Blake doesn’t have a role he’ll want to take in a few years once Bayless is for sure the starter and Rudy and Roy take the PG duty otherwise…
For now, I think Blake is much more necessary than a trade chip in David Lee.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drafted in 05'
If he wants a big extension, that’d be a problem. The extension would be this summer, and he’d be a restricted free agent the following summer if no extension happened.
I love the way this team is set up right now, so I wouldn’t mind if no trades happened. Lee is just on the verge of making me want to trade. I really like Blake though.
by poster on Jun 29, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if...
...We sent both Diogu and Blake to NY for David Lee and Nate Robinson? Maybe throw in Sergio or PK or Martell and some future draft picks?
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Robinson does not tempt me.
He’s just too short and too much of a scorer. I know he’s not bad, but I just wouldn’t feel comfortable with him on the floor.
by poster on Jun 29, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oye vey
In the interest of full disclosure, lemme say I think Martell, AS IS, is more valuable to our team than David Lee, and will be a better player.
If a starter, and not a energy player, Lee will not be so highly prized as he is now. Awful defender, limited but not bad offensively, and a terrific rebounder. If we can have him as a backup, it’s nice, but not necessary even if we lose an also serviceable backup in Diogu, and a solid starting PG in Blake during a time we need a solid PG because of how remarkably young and inexperienced we are at every other position.
I can’t stand Nate Robinson, at all. He is garbage-esque and I think his career and popularity is helped by being so short. He is a gunner, is annoying, no PG skills, and would have zero role on this team unless we’re looking for a dwarfen yapper.
He’s the sort of guy I can enjoy, as long as he’s on someone else’s team.
David Lee has value, certainly more than just Blake. But, we wouldn’t be able to enjoy what Lee does because we do not NEED what Lee does, and we certainly need what Blake does until we know Bayless or Rudy are the starters at PG.
If we got David Lee, I would do it in the interest of moving him again because he DOES have value league wide, and we know we do not want to give him a hefty payday that he reportedly is looking for (I’m too lazy to look it up, but it was 8+ million a year for 5 years or sumthin’). Just based off his trading value, he is worth Blake and Diogu and Sergio, but based on how he’d fit the team, I don’t think it’s worth it.
Plus, I like Martell as the SF more than David Lee as the backup PF…
My “oye vey” is more for Nate Robinson, because I’d be okay getting David Lee if, for whatever reason, he was temporarily cheap to get—but I’d prolly prefer moving him afterwards, because of his contract wants and our team needs.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
Nate Robinson is not really tempting to me, either long-term. He’s a poor man’s Earl Boykins.
I was really just floating the idea. Personally, I think we can do better by standing pat now, and waiting for the trade deadline, when some teams are going to be lining up for RLEC.
Next February, a package of RLEC and someone like Martell, Frye, Sergio, or Diogu could be enough to nab a legit all-star caliber player from some team looking to dump salary.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For example...
...Some names that might be available with this package (not advocating any of these in particular, just an idea of the level of player we might be able to grab this way):
Jason Richardson? Gerald Wallace? Joe Johnson? Josh Howard? Luol Deng? Caron Butler?
Really, it all depends on how well the teams these guys play for are doing on the season, and which teams are in the hunt for ping-pong balls, rather than playoff seeds.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be purty sweet
I like all of those guys, aside from Jason Richardson (I know you ain’t sayin’ you want him, I’m just sayin’). I think you’re right, and in the right scenario RLEC and a good young dude like Martell or Frye could really turn into a great ‘final piece’, should we think we need one.
Could you imagine Caron Butler as our SF? Yeshus Kristos, if he could stay healthy he’d be awesome as our SF. Let’s hope the Bullets start needing to save money and wanna move Butler for some reason for an expiring deal and cheap, young talent.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
Basically, we just need to keep our eyes peeled next January/February for which teams are underachieving. There’s always at least three or four squads that started the year with playoff hopes sitting below the .500 mark and about ready to throw in the towel by the deadline.
In terms of who exactly it will be—well, I trust KP to make a good evaluation with “good culture” at the top of his priority list.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what we need
Is a lockdown defender SF and Batum fits there and we need to keep in mind the restricted free agent hurting our salary cap situation got better with the JJ trade but to max the cap space we need to deal Webster,Fry and Blake before next year.Having said that,we need Blake this year. I am sure KP knows all this because he calls me all the time and asks me what we should do
by southern oregon on Jun 29, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
actually it got slightly worse because Diogu is in the same situtation but with more salary
Leaving this blank 'til I think of something funny
by Zaron5551 on Jun 29, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fortunately
I feel better about giving up Diogu for “nothing” (as in, an expiring deal or someone not as good but doesn’t reserve cap space like the end-of-a-rookie-deal does) than I would if we had to give Jack up for “nuthin”.
If we don’t move him, it certainly does hurt our cap room more, since he was a lottery pick and Jack was somewhere in the low 20’s. I think he has value, at the VERY least of the ‘give away’ sort, so I don’t worry too much about him making us have a cap hold that hurts our chances to sign Magic Johnson or whoever we’re gunnin’ for.
Not sayin’ that you is sayin’ that, I’m just sayin’.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
i was simply talking about the contract itself its similar to Jacks
Leaving this blank 'til I think of something funny
by Zaron5551 on Jun 29, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know
that Batum is a lock down defender? This is something I have not heard about him so if you have a source that would be great.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the draft sites, KP...
They all say he is a better defender than most at his age and potential, and that it is further developed than his offensive game (which isn’t bad, for a n00b).
He, allegedly, has lockdown potential with his athleticism, length, and that he actually appears to reportedly understand defense at the age of 19. I imagined he’d be more one-dimensionally offensive at this point in his career, but the reports say he is more passive offensively and works harder on defense and team-play. Go figure!
I am much, much too lazy to find a link saying all this, but I know I have read it somewhere “official”.
SpencerButte, where are ya? You’re the BatManFTW now, and can find the links to defend the Frenchie…
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is what I had heard too
I had never heard lock down defender right now applied to him in the same way that it has been applied to Westbrook.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, right now?
Yeah, I’d have to wait n’ see if he has ‘lockdown’ ability right now, but I’m optimistic because he was reportedly a good (and sometimes great) defender in the Euroleague, and with a T-Mac athletic marvel type player that Batum is, defense and team-play usually is the LAST thing that sort of player learns.
If he has been good at defense before, has a great body with beautiful length, and big ears, I think we can expect he’ll possibly be a pretty good defender in a few years. It’s much more reasonable to expect Batum would be a ‘lockdown candidate’ over Outlaw, based on previous play, for example… and I know some here actually expect Outlaw to be that sort of player someday, for whatever reason. He might find magic defensive beans, so you never know.
As far as Westbrook goes, yeah he’s supposed to be a lockdown dude also but just like Batum it was against lesser opponents and we’ll have to see it against NBA players. I have no reason to expect he WON’T be a good to great defender, but his reputation in college doesn’t mean it translates to the pros. Westbrook is a lot more athletic than Jarrett Jack, but Jack had a similar rep and if it wasn’t for Rajon Rondo and other young PGs really taking their teams to new levels, I don’t know if Westbrook would go so high and be so heavily hyped.
I doubt we’ll rely on Batum for ANYTHING his rookie year, but it’s a nice hope for the future that he continues to develop and be a lockdown defender who can also shoot and score. Even if he can stay in front of any SF in the league right now, he’s too skinny and weak to really stop anyone for now… at least ones that can go down on the block and muscle up to a defender, like Artest. Lebron doesn’t take people down on the block yet (and once he realizes he can do that against anyone and stops taking 3’s with 20 secs left on the shot clock, he’ll be even more unstoppable), but Lebron would just go right through and right over lil’ Bat-boom.
Once Batum came on my radar some time last summer (a poster that I can’t remember but I believe is a regular still was hyping him up one day), I always had a special feeling that he’d be a Trail Blazer. After the hyping up and before his good-not-great Euroleague season, I thought we’d have to get him in the lottery. I’m glad he fell to us and we got him for so cheap, because I’ve always liked what we’ve seen. It woulda’ been nice if he tore it up in the Euroleague, but his numbers were good for a kid. Plus, he has big ears.
A guy so young, who has been commited to defense and passing the ball and not just getting his points at the age of 19, and is really athletic even for the NBA, is pretty rare. He might never turn into anything, but it’s so worth a late 1st round pick and the 13th spot on a roster to find out.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fact that SA was high on him...
...more than anything else, to me, indicates that he’s got good potential as a defensive player.
I believe history will record this draft as the year KP managed to “yoink” two players out from under the noses of two other teams (Bayless from Sac, Batum from SA), adding to his legend as one of the master drafting GMs of all time.
Fingers crossed.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Jun 29, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spurs should alleviate any worry for us
Yeah, the fact that the Spurs wanted him as well is a great sign, since they also got a great eye for foreign talent—though they haven’t seemed to have been as aggressively pursuing foreign talent like KP has. However, a lot of those picks have been outright bought, and the Spurs don’t have a great deal of cash to go get another draft pick to store a Euro overseas, so if they felt Batum was worth their 1st round selection I think it bodes well.
If we were fighting for Batum with, say, Minnesota or the Bobcats, who knows what that could mean.
I also like that KP KNEW Batum and his agent’s wishes to come over right away, and still drafted him knowing he’d likely be on the roster this coming year. We must’ve liked what we saw in this kid over the years and in the workouts, and I like that as well.
This kid has the physical tools, if he’s got the mentality too he could be a pretty good player, even better than a role player. Since he already plays defense, I am optimistic… maybe more than most.
I refuse to be yelling at Nate to play him over Martell or whatever, as I don’t want a replay of the Sergio situation like Dave predicts. Just guardedly optimistic, that’s ol’ Mortimer!
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An interesting side note to Batum
is that Morey, a stat savvy GM, passed on him so he could get some other players. This is interesting to me as he has grabbed some good talent in his last couple of drafts and is a new school GM like KP. Also, all of the stats guys, Hollinger and Berri are low on this guy.
I will be really interested to see how Batum plays out as it seems like it is really battle of statistical analysis as how well this guy performs.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 30, 2008 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's interesting
I remember seeing that also, that Hollinger rated him low. One side of me goes “well, the kid was 19, most 19 year olds get no minutes on the vet-favored teams of the Euroleague”, but while I don’t like Hollinger’s analysis when it isn’t numbers based, his numbers stuff is usually pretty good.
Batum’s strength right now is supposed to be defense and BBIQ, and those two things don’t show up well in ANY fancy new-age metric (or any old metric either).
It’s definitely something to remember, and I see KP as a guy who loves the new age stats and figuring out a player’s worth with the numbers, but also trusting his instincts and what he sees when he watches a kid. I’m not quite sure Morey is like that, because I know he really leans on the numbers…
I guess it’s safe to say that STATISTICALLY, Batum hasn’t showed much at all, but his age and his body make him more than worth a flyer.
How do you personally like Berri? I’m not enough of a numbers guy to ‘get’ him sometimes, but I know I usually dislike the outcomes of his fancy stats. I know I’ve heard other statisticians dislike the guy, but I dunno if they are biased towards him for other reasons that are not clear to me.
Batum always intrigued me, but mostly because he was a different sort of player for the Euroleague and I liked his athleticism. I don’t have much of an idea if he’ll ever turn into anything, but of course I hope this is a time where the gut instincts trump the cold hard numba’s.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont like Berri
He seems to really overvalue rebounds and he just has, what I consider wonky ways of doing things, like seemingly arbitrarily adding and subtracting numbers by position rather than by team so that shows a disregard for pace in his calculations. With that said I respect what he is trying to do, measuring an individuals contribution to winning, but I am not on board with how he does it.
I can definitely get with your assessment of Batum and in trusting in KP, but I would also say that Morey has definitely found some productive players in the end of the draft. I especially like his Landry pick. Some of this may play into each teams five year plan as Houston is looking to win sooner than later so if they can get immediate help from a guy like Dorsey and win a championship then it is a good move for them.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 30, 2008 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect Morey
And I think valuing numbers to reveal the hidden diamonds is probably the best way to do that, and Morey has made some great late 1st/2nd round picks (such as Landry). His Scola trade with the Spurs was great also, as they got him for nothing.
Not that Scola is a star, but he’s another great n’ solid role player the Spurs coulda used.
For a dude like Landry, his past play from his time in college is a good indicator of what he’ll do in the NBA. For a dude like Batum, his best days are ahead of him and to evaluate him based on his previous numbers will always make him come out bad since he’s just a raw kid.
I’m not sure if there is a metric that can measure “potential”, and you gotta use your instincts with a kid this young, I think.
But yeah, I don’t take anything away from Morey, he’s done well. I don’t even know if he leans on the numbers more than someone like KP does, I’m just speculating. I really like that KP has embraced the new-age numbers, because at the very least looking at each player in a new light will always just help you form a greater understanding of what that player is about. No stat is perfect, but you take the ones you trust and combine it with what you see and think about the kid, and it definitely helps you make better informed decisions.
Of course, nearly everything is a crapshoot with kids this young.
I wish I had the aptitude for the numbers like you and Poster and others do, but alas, I am very dumb.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not so much for the numbers
and based on your posts I would say you are hardly dumb.
Maybe I will have to start following the Rockets more closely as I am a fan of what Morey is doing. You definitely hit it on the head with that Scola trade. What a weird move for SA to make.
I know Hollinger is trying to measure potential with his projected PER for college players and Euroleaguers but it has a ridiculous weight on age. If you are young and decent that is apparently much much better than slightly older and good.
I guess he makes money doing it so good for that dude.
Luckily time will tell on the Batum pick and I certainly hope it works out for us.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 30, 2008 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In defense of Batum's defense...
“He’s always been a pretty good defender in Europe, always been a good team player."
- Mike Born, Trail Blazers’ director of NBA Scouting on Casey’s blog
On Draftexpress, one of his strengths is “Perimeter defense”. Another quote is this: ” However, whenever he figured things out, he really impressed with his abilities. The guy can be simply unstoppable, able to create his own shot at will, to easily set up his teammates for easy baskets, to play lock down defense taking advantage of his freakish wingspan and athleticism, and come up with a slew of highlights in the form of blocks, dunks, long-range off-the-dribble shots, etc.
Batum needs to realize that he’s the clear-cut best player on his team, and start playing accordingly. It would be a crime to waste such an impressive collage of basketball goods. Indeed, he should be a lock for the lottery, but even if we can easily project him there, there’s no solid ground to protect him from slipping, given the concerns his game draws. “
From nbadraft.net: “Defensively, has all the tools to become great … A player possessing his type of length and athleticism to go along with great lateral foot speed is a rarity … Could eventually become a defender capable of guarding all 5 positions on the floor …Quick hands and feet, plus athleticism make him a potential lock down defender … “
From what I’ve read, he’s a good defender now, and he could be a great defender in the future. He still relies on his length and athleticism too much, and he’s a bit too skinny right now. Mike Born also said he’s potentially Tayshaun Prince-like on defense.
by poster on Jun 29, 2008 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
PG experience
I like what Lee could bring to the bench unit. However, I don’t think we would do this deal because if we trade Blake we would have very little experience at the PG spot. Fernandez, Rodriguez, Bayless and Koppenen have very little or no experience playing the NBA point guard experience. I don’t think NY trades Lee unless someone takes back one of their UGLY contracts. That is how they are trying to get rid of their contracts is by including Lee. If that is the price, I’ll pass. If not, maybe they would take Rodriguez and two of our second rounders next year? I’d do that, not so sure they woud though.
by utblazer on Jun 29, 2008 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OK
i say the we dont trade blake for lee but u try to bring him in like say frye or digu, sergio and a few draft picks but definatlly not blake
now about bayless starting i think he wont right at first but maybe after the allstar break he will
by BLAZERS#52 on Jun 29, 2008 3:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would only trade Blake for Lee
if it somehow facilitated a trade for Prince. Otherwise no.
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Jun 29, 2008 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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