Blake, Jack, Bayless, Westbrook, Harris college stat comparisons
|
Steve Blake |
Jerryd Bayless |
Jarrett Jack |
Russel Westbrook |
Devin Harris |
||||||
| Bio | ||||||||||
| Height | 6-3 | 6-3 | 6-3 | 6-3 | 6-3 | |||||
| Weight | 160.0 | 199.0 | 202.0 | 189.0 | 185.0 | |||||
| Position | Guard | Guard | Guard | Guard | Guard | |||||
| Home State | Florida | Arizona | Maryland | California | Wisconsin | |||||
| Current Age | 27 | 19 | 24 | 19 | 25 | |||||
| Playing Time | ||||||||||
| Team Games | 31 | 34 | 32 | 39 | 32 | |||||
| Games Played | 31 | 30 | 32 | 39 | 32 | |||||
| Games Started | 31 | 30 | 31 | 34 | 32 | |||||
| Minutes | 1009 | (198) |
1072 | (213) |
1091 | (86) |
1318 | (4) |
1162 | (17) |
| Minutes Per Game | 32.5 | (330) |
35.7 | (60) |
34.1 | (174) |
33.8 | (178) |
36.3 | (37) |
| Scoring | ||||||||||
| Points | 360 | (530) |
592 | (66) |
497 | (134) |
497 | (189) |
624 | (22) |
| Points Per Game | 11.6 | (609) |
19.7 | (39) |
15.5 | (183) |
12.7 | (459) |
19.5 | (31) |
| High Game Points | 27 | (390) |
39 | (23) |
26 | (444) |
22 | (890) |
38 | (25) |
| Shooting | ||||||||||
| Field Goals Made | 114 | (694) |
173 | (188) |
164 | (182) |
182 | (149) |
189 | (67) |
| Field Goals Attempted | 275 | (549) |
378 | (198) |
319 | (308) |
391 | (160) |
412 | (71) |
| Field Goal Percentage | 41.5 | (548) |
45.8 | (508) |
51.4 | (111) |
46.5 | (453) |
45.9 | (264) |
| Free Throws Made | 68 | (616) |
187 | (16) |
123 | (102) |
107 | (222) |
171 | (15) |
| Free Throws Attempted | 83 | (804) |
223 | (36) |
142 | (205) |
150 | (206) |
216 | (27) |
| Free Throw Percentage | 81.9 | 83.9 | (89) |
86.6 | (9) |
71.3 | (519) |
79.2 | (66) |
|
| 3pt Field Goals Made | 64 | (165) |
59 | (311) |
46 | (426) |
26 | (953) |
75 | (88) |
| 3pt Field Goals Attempted | 154 | (248) |
145 | (386) |
104 | (626) |
77 | (963) |
201 | (80) |
| 3pt Field Goal Percentage | 41.6 | (79) |
40.7 | 44.2 | 33.8 | 37.3 | (211) |
|||
| Rebounds | ||||||||||
| Rebounds | 114 | (960) |
82 | 155 | (452) |
153 | (596) |
139 | (604) |
|
| Rebounds Per Game | 3.7 | 2.7 | 4.8 | (597) |
3.9 | (937) |
4.3 | (777) |
||
| Offensive Rebounds | 22 | 13 | 9 | 61 | (393) |
20 | ||||
| Offensive Rebounds Per Game | 0.7 | 0.4 | 0.3 | 1.6 | (615) |
0.6 | ||||
| Defensive Rebounds | 92 | (655) |
69 | 146 | (122) |
92 | (799) |
119 | (291) |
|
| Defensive Rebounds Per Game | 3.0 | (735) |
2.3 | 4.6 | (166) |
2.4 | 3.7 | (394) |
||
| Assists, Steals, & Blocks | ||||||||||
| Assists | 221 | (6) |
121 | (155) |
145 | (64) |
167 | (48) |
141 | (74) |
| Assists Per Game | 7.1 | (7) |
4.0 | (133) |
4.5 | (79) |
4.3 | (100) |
4.4 | (100) |
| Steals | 50 | (157) |
29 | (824) |
58 | (83) |
63 | (46) |
56 | (92) |
| Steals Per Game | 1.6 | (181) |
1.0 | (669) |
1.8 | (105) |
1.6 | (162) |
1.8 | (110) |
| Blocks | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | (991) |
4 | ||||
| Blocks Per Game | 0.2 | 0.1 | 0.1 | 0.2 | 0.1 | |||||
| Turnovers & Fouls | ||||||||||
| Turnovers | 99 | (74) |
89 | (187) |
110 | (28) |
96 | (126) |
66 | (545) |
| Turnovers Per Game | 3.2 | (109) |
3.0 | (133) |
3.4 | (56) |
2.5 | (337) |
2.1 | (667) |
| Fouls | 54 | 66 | 54 | 93 | (238) |
62 | ||||
| Fouls Per Game | 1.7 | 2.2 | (972) |
1.7 | 2.4 | (746) |
1.9 | |||
I dont know exactly what to make of these stats. They are all from the players last year in college, i thought i would bring them here for someone to analyze, but as far as i can see bayless holds up pretty well, he also was the only freshman, and had to play without his coach, the great lute olson, so he didn't develop as much as possible and probably was allowed to create for himself alot, rather than work in the established system.
3 recs |
34 comments
Comments
By the looks of this
Harris is the best of the bunch. But I think Bayless is the only Freshmen, and the only turnovers and rebounding are the main diff. between the two. Jack was jr. Westbrook a Soph and Blake a Sr? Or are those career? Was Harris a Soph? Gotta give him credit for making that many 3’s as well, and 19 points in the Wisconsin system is like 30 in AZs.
by ChadFord on Jun 28, 2008 10:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I gave Bayless a little extra credit for being the lone Frosh
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Jun 28, 2008 10:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice info
I’m pretty impressed by Bayless. He wasn’t too far off from Harris’ production as a Freshman. Their production I think is comparable since Harris went to a good program in a solid conference and so did Bayless (AZ, Pac-10). Georgia Tech and Maryland meanwhile, really aren’t Basketball schools. Well maybe Maryland, but there aren’t too many stars from there. The coaching situation in AZ obviously negatively impacted Bayless but he still managed to put up good numbers. He seems like the best shooter of the players listed.
A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!
by Dheepan on Jun 28, 2008 11:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maryland is a basketball school
trust me, from my perspective 15 miles from College Park, they see themselves as one. Any Terp fan will throw the name of the late great Len Bias at you. And Steve Francis and Albert King and John Lucas, to name a few off the top of my head. And Georgia Tech has had some strong teams and they might mention names like Kenny Anderson and Mark Price and John Salley and Travis Best. Didn’t Chris Bosh go there? Can someone get me a list?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
by Honka Playboy on Jun 28, 2008 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah ...
Not only were those Maryland teams during the Blake years stacked, but they faced probably the stiffest competition in the nation at the time. UNC, Duke, NC State, and Wake were all very good if I remember. It always seemed like whoever was coming out of the ACC had the best chance to win.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 28, 2008 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Maryland team
Had Blake, Dixon, Chris Wailcox and some other big guy that was drafted, can’t recall the name. Pretty sure it was something Baxter. Thats probably one of the most stacked teams in the past NCAA decade. They probably would have had a chance against the Heat last year.
by ChadFord on Jun 28, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seee
Well serves me right for looking like an idiot, I don’t know anything about college BB.
A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!
by Dheepan on Jun 28, 2008 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lonny Baxter
I believe he got busted on some gun charges a while back
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maryland won the title
during Blake’s last year.
by premthegrem on Jun 28, 2008 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Georgia Tech & Maryland ?
They are both in the ACC and have been Basketball schools for a long time.
If you are saying they haven’t been to the final four recently, then yes.
GT has a great tradition of Guards/PG’s – Marbury, Travis Best, Jack, etc.
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Jun 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Westbrook
I love Bayless and think he’s the best possible choice. But how many votes do you think Westbrook would have gotten if he had been a Blazer at this time?
I think the true point of this is to show how statistically close the 5 players were. There’s nobody there blowing people out of the water. The big differences I saw: Bayless and Harris were by far the top scorers [due to Jerry Dee’s ability and Harris’s role for that team], Blake was the best distributor [again, due in part to skills and due in part to his role], and Jack had by far the best shooting percentages.
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
by rmcdougall on Jun 28, 2008 11:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting stuff but ultimately useless.
Stuff like this doesn’t take into account the teams they played for or the competition they faced. For instance, Blake’s Maryland teams were absolutely stacked (for the NCAA), while Harris and Bayless had to do most of the scoring for their teams. If memory serves, Jack had a pretty good second banana with him when GT went to the final four. Interesting stuff, but unless you can read between the lines re: their unique situations, I don’t think it says much about who will fair the best in the NBA.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 28, 2008 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice Sig
I want picture sigs back though I didn’t get much mileage out of this Rudy one.
A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!
by Dheepan on Jun 29, 2008 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The hat is the best part
it is so small it looks like a clown hat. It is funny
GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!
by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I would agree that you cannot compare them if they were super different like if one of those dudes were in MAC or something, but all played against top notch college competition so it seems reasonable to compare them if we took pace into account as that might make Devin Harris look really good as Wisconsin, to me, has been known for a slower pace where as Arizona plays pretty face. I have no idea about GT or Maryland.
The guard who played with Jack is now in the NBDL cant remember his name and cant seem to find the right google search to get it
Sorry
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 29, 2008 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris' Numbers are clearly better than Bayless'
Harris had a very similar scoring volume and efficiency, but he had a much higher rebound rate (actually all of the other PGs rebounded significantly better than Bayless), got a few more assists, and didn’t have as many turnovers.
Actually, you could argue that all of the other PGs had better stats than Bayless. Harris was the only one to match Bayless’s scoring volume, but the others had advantages in other areas. If Blake, Jack, and Bayless were all putting up these numbers at the same age I would rate them about equal as prospects. What makes Bayless a better prospect than Jack or Blake is that he put up those numbers as a freshman, while Jack was a junior and Blake was a senior.
by trk on Jun 29, 2008 12:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
another reason the stats don't compare well...
Bayless played SG no PG for Arizona so his assists are going to be down and his scoring is going to be up list like the stats reveal. I watched Bayless and Westbrook towards the end of the Season and was not impressed by either, but they are young dudes with athleticism and the GMs of the league are expecting them to eventually live up to their potential. It may be a while though. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bayless doesn’t start for a couple of years. But if doesn’t start by then. Then I’d say the Blazers gave up to much for him, since Brandon Rush is NBA ready and Jack is at least a solid bench guy and will definitely be in Indiana’s rotation if not starting.
by mrwonderfulone on Jun 29, 2008 12:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
its a risk that KP took
but not a big one. JJ was good, but his days were numbered, and Rush wouldnt have goten any time behind Roy and Rudy. If Bayless doesnt turn out like we hoped, we didnt lose that much….But if he grows, and is as good as we hope, or even better than we hoped, he could be exavtly what we need.
by raging WebTed on Jun 29, 2008 12:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Like Dave said, low risk-high reward
A Time For Heroes,
It's not right for young lungs to be coughing up blood
And it's all
It's all in my hands
And its all up the walls
Well the stale chips were up and the hopes stakes were down
Until Kp came into Town!
'Sing it Petey!
by Dheepan on Jun 29, 2008 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
You can’t compare a freshman’s stats to sophmores or juniors. To be realistic, you have to factor experience. I also would point out that as a Freshman, Bayless was almost as productive as Jack, a Junior. Why don’t you go look at Jack’s Freshman record? If you did, there wouldn’t be much comparison, and Bayless would look clearly like the better player. Secondly, I’ll take KP’s judgement that Bayless was the 4th best player in the draft, over anyone on this board. There were skeptics about Roy, and skeptics about Aldridge – but KP was dead right on both. When evaluating Freshmen, you must take into account their athleticism and basic skills. You don’t have any choice because they don’t have a track record that’s meaningful. This is why KP has been out-drafting many of the other GM’s. He’s part of the modern group – not the throwbacks to the era when these players had 4 years of college and teams had ample time to evaluate them. Today, you have to use different criteria. And KP’s system has proven to be better at that type of evaluation – than that of many other teams in the league.
I believe that Bayless will be a contributor in his first year and that, by his second year, just like Aldridge, he’ll either take over that position or split the minutes. Thereafter, he’ll be a starter.
As a Freshman, he was clearly a better player than Jack or Blake were as Freshmen. And you can rest assured that KP was entirely aware of this fact.
by Eben Calder on Jun 29, 2008 7:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Other views
Virtually every draft opinion out scores Portland an A, A-, or A+ for their draft. Hoopsworld, Chad Ford, DraftExpress, Wetzel on NBA.com, and the like.
This is DraftExpress’s take:
Grade: A+
Kevin Pritchard and his terrific staff continue to run circles around every other front office in the NBA, going out and securing the top players on their draft board, at their biggest needs, while continuing to stock up on picks for the future.
Portland’s staff identified Jerryd Bayless as the best fit for their roster very early on in the season and they were confident and aggressive enough (as usual) to go out and get him.
It makes perfect sense, of course, as Bayless’ biggest weakness (the fact that he’s not a true point guard) actually becomes a strength playing alongside Brandon Roy (who will do the majority of the ball handling), letting Bayless focus on what he does best: making shots and creating for himself and in turn for others. Bayless will defend point guards while Roy will handle the shooting guards and the two will just cross on offense. The Blazers had him ranked as the fourth-best player in this draft – as did we – and being able to nab him with the 13th pick and Jarrett Jack was a huge coup.
This is simply a concensus opinion. And frankly, it’s mine.
by Eben Calder on Jun 29, 2008 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Mostly Promising
As everyone has said, the fact that Bayless, as a freshmen, compares favorably in most categories with the others later in their career is encouraging. And, as many have noted some numbers, like assists, certainly depend a lot on who is on the team and what type of offensive system the coach runs.
The only red flag I see here is rebounding. Rebounding is one of the more stable statistics in basketball and Bayless numbers aren’t great. I’d argue that there isn’t a huge need for the Blazers to have a PG that can rebound, given the size and rebounding prowess of Oden, but a PG that can get a few offensive rebounds a game is a great way to steal some points.
by PoliSam on Jun 29, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Harris as Freshmen
Bayless compares quite favorably to Harris as a Freshmen:
Devin Harris
Season 2001-02
TEAM Wisconsin
G 32
MIN 1094
MPG 34.18
FG% 41.3
FG3 59
FG3A 161
FG3% 36.6
FT 101
FTA 130
FT% 77.7
PTS/G 12.3
A/G 1.8
ST/G 1.3
B/G 0.6
TO/G 1.65
by PoliSam on Jun 29, 2008 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blake, Jack, Westbrook as Freshmen
Apologies for not formatting the stats. I’m in a bit of a hurry this morning.
As others speculated, Bayless actually looks quite a bit better than all four when comparing Freshmen season to Freshmen season.
Jarret Jack:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jarrett-Jack-9/stats/
31 mpg 9.5pg, 5.9apg, 3.4 TOpg, 45.5 FG%, 28.3 3PFG%
Westbrook:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Russell-Westbrook-5062/stats/
Only played 9 minutes per game. Had he played 36 minutes per game, he would have averaged about 13.5 pts, 2.6 assists, 3.1 rebounds. He shot 45%.
Steve Blake:
http://www.sportsstats.com/jazzyj/greats/03/blake.htm
7ppg, 6apg, 3rpg, 40% FG%
Looking at this, I’m even more encouraged by Bayless. A lot will depend on how Bayless fits into the team, how he develops, etc, but he is a really exciting prospect. For most of the year he slated at the 3rd or 4th spot in the draft. He’s a huge talent. The big question for him was really about whether he shoulde be a PG or a SG… and doubts that he could be a pure PG. I’d argue that those questions are not nearly as important playing for Portland next to Roy, as many have said.
by PoliSam on Jun 29, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read about Bayless' statistics from a few other places.
He is far from typical. There is one incredible positive and two worrisome negatives from what I’ve seen.
The positive is that he can score. He can score in bulk, and he can score very efficiently at the same time. He gets to the free throw line at a very high rate, and he shoots the ball well from the field in a number of different ways. It is hard to find many other freshman who can do this historically.
The worrisome part is his rebounding and steals. Despite playing a lot at SG in college, he was a fairly bad rebounder even compared to PGs. He barely gets any steals at all. It’s interesting to note that these stats could be a product of his t-rex arms. They may never be that improved if that’s the case. However, he reportedly is a decent defender despite the stats. Frankly, I’d trust the scouts on this.
I think you’d have to say that Bayless is at least better than Blake, Jack, and Westbrook statistically. His age compared to Harris means he’s probably better than Harris too in college. If he can be at least as good as Harris in the pros, I think he’s a steal.
by poster on Jun 29, 2008 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Reflection on those statistics
Looking at these stats, at the college level Westbrook was by far the best defender of the bunch. By far. He got more steals and committed more fouls. It’d be very useful to see points scored against each of these guys when they were in the game. I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to say Westbrook’s would be the low, though that might be somewhat mitigated in instances where the other team’s lead scorer.
Let’s look at this a little more closely with a representative example – in the two games UCLA played USC and Westbrook spent most of his 74 minutes dogging OJ Mayo (likely to be a legit NBA scorer), Mayo had a total of 20 points in 80 minutes, on 7-20 shooting from the field, with FOURTEEN turnovers. Mayo is listed at 6’5”, but he’s measured out at closer to 6’4” – either way we’re not talking about an undersized guard here. Westbrook is going to be a fantastic defender in the NBA, that’s why he went at the fourth pick.
The other thing that jumps out is Westbrook’s great motor – he had by far the most offensive rebounds from among the guards – they’re all about the same size, but Westbrook has a nose for the ball, like Rondo.
Bayless had excellent offensive punch this past season, as the primary scorer for his team (with the overrated Chase Budinger second), but didn’t show the same energy in his defensive effort and rebounding. I think “our guy” this year was Westbrook, but Bayless was an acceptable alternative for what we gave up to get him. Make no mistake, I think Bayless will be the better scorer in the league, but Westbrook was a better fit for the Blazer’s needs.
by baduk on Jun 29, 2008 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What did Bayless do against USC defensively?
Did he also cover Mayo…or someone else?
GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!
by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what if we
acquire a lock down defender at the 3? Check out my post “Travis Outlaw, Smoke screens and Tayshaun Prince” if that’s your other veteran target…Bayless looks like a perfect fit.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Jun 29, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and Pritchard
had that deal for Bayless going into the draft according to Mike Barret. That says to me either the price for Westbrook was insane or KP’s top 4 went like this:
#2. Beasley
#3. Mayo
#4. Bayless
KP almost always get’s his man…
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Jun 29, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beasley not on Pritchard's board
I think it was Rose, Mayo, Westbrook, Bayless.
What position does Beasley play in Portland? SF?
by baduk on Jun 29, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I think 'the board'
Means the ENTIRE draft, because that is what they’ve meant in the past when publically discussing their board.
Not just players we’d reasonably target, but every player. So, it likely is Rose/Beasley/Mayo/Bayless.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think Bayless is higher on the list, since he is projected to be good defensively and is already much further along offensively than Westbrook, and is a great jumpshooter as is… which fits Roy better than someone who can’t shoot (and even Shaq can hit half of his unguarded 3 pointers, not that Westbrook can’t become a good shooter someday).
And since, according to Quick and Barrett, some Blazer scouts even thought DJ Augustin was better than Westbrook, I’m not sure if Westbrook was top 5 even. Not that DJ was, of course…
Whatever the ‘real’ order was, getting what KP considers (and most pundits also, to boot) the 4th best player in the draft for the #13 pick and two non-rotation players (next year) is purty suh-weet.
Morty-murr
by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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