Great Draft, but....

I completely agree

I was thinking the same thing last night. It’s possible that some of the fans know something I(we) don’t, but I do think it was a really poor display by the home team. Overall, I think the fans here in Portland are quite good, but there’s always a segment of the fanbase that you’d like to hide under a rock.

Oh my, there go da game!

by Gravitate on Jun 27, 2008 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They're the former LAX fans

As soon as their team lost the Finals, they jumped to a different bandwagon. True Blazer fans would never have been so crude.

by Steve The Hedge on Jun 27, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably

Even though I haven’t lived in Vancouver for about 4 years now, I still remember all the bandwagon Laker fans. Gross.

Boston coach Doc Rivers said he was surprised by the firing of Saunders.
"I don't understand it," Rivers said. "It makes coaching not fun."

by Dheepan on Jun 27, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

that the cheering was bad, bad, bad… However, I think it’s ok for those of us that have wanted him traded for awhile to be excited about it. That being said, it should always be done with dignity and class, and for that, I give you a rec.

myspace.com/marktwainindians

by mark twain on Jun 27, 2008 2:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah definitely.

But BE isn’t like that look at the Appreciation thread. AND the guy that made a d-bag post about Indiana was run out of town.

Boston coach Doc Rivers said he was surprised by the firing of Saunders.
"I don't understand it," Rivers said. "It makes coaching not fun."

by Dheepan on Jun 27, 2008 2:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good post

JJ was always a hard worker and a team guy. I wish him well in Indy, and hope he regains a starting job someday.
As for the Blazer fans who cheered when he was traded, those are the kind of fans that we don’t need.

by koyote on Jun 27, 2008 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Like I said in the open draft thread last night, not classy, Portland, not at all. I very nearly turned off the radio feed when I heard those jerks start singing in the background, because I can’t stand that kind of “fandom”. It’s why I hang around here—I’m glad that we’re above all that, for the most part.

by abdelnaby on Jun 27, 2008 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jarrett is still da Man

And he is gonna get cheered loudly next time he steps foot in the Rose Garden.

He’s a consummate professional: always working very hard to improve his game; always accepts responsibility for his mistakes; tries to carry the team on his back at crunch time; fearlessly takes the ball to the rim; doesn’t back down from anyone; great off-court character; a model citizen; someone I would instruct my son to emulate; a total team player; not afraid to face his weaknesses and struggle to overcome them; completely dedicated to being the very best player and person he can be.

I wish him the very best and I wish he was still a Blazer. A class act. A total complete unadulterated class act.

Winning is everything.

by MT Suit on Jun 27, 2008 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I didn't like Jack as a player

As a person he seemed nice enough. I never met the guy. I kind of doubt many of us has spent quality time with him.

I didn’t cheer when I learned about his departure, but I certainly didn’t bat an eyelash either. It has been expected for a long time.

The level to which fans relate and connect with players has always kind of shocked me. This phenomenon is especially prevalent in Portland. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that we are unacquainted with true celebrity, and our small town is sometimes mistaken for a big city. As the Helio Sequence adroitly noticed about our burg: “everyone knows everyone/ everyone knows what everyone does.”

I certainly don’t want to disparage Jack: I’m nothing but ambivalent towards his departure. However, I do want to openly question the emotional fan response to any player leaving the team. For example: last year when people got in my face because I dared say “good riddance to bad rubbish” when we traded Randolph.

But seriously, does anyone think we as fans “owe” these players anything?

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thats probably it

Every knew he was going, so there was no stomach punch to be had. Just excitement for the future.

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on Jun 27, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't there

but could the cheer have been for the fact that a trade had been made, and not necessarily that Jack was the one being traded. Let’s face it, he had the highest expectation to be traded of everyone, so if there was going to be a trade, he was going to be in on it. When they announced his name as part of a trade, it did two things: announced that there was a trade, and announced that Jack would be leaving. So (not having heard the crowd reaction) I wonder if it wasn’t at least partly a cheer just to have some trade action going on.

Don’t feel sorry for Jack, he’s a tough cookie and he’s onto a new challenge. He was expecting it, probably glad to get out of the rain.

by BrailleTaser on Jun 27, 2008 3:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no

those cheers were pretty clearly for the fact that Jack was traded—I don’t think people broke into “Hit the road Jack” by coincidence, or because that’s the song we always break out when a trade goes down.

Don’t get me wrong, I expected a trade, I expected it to include Jack, and I think we came out a winner in this deal. That being said, what has Jarrett Jack done to deserve being run out of town? I don’t owe him my gratitude, necessarily, but he wasn’t owed what he got from the fans last night, either.

by abdelnaby on Jun 27, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is overblown...

Not to say I disagree, Blazers fans should celebrate Jack’s accomplishments and tenure as a Blazer, but this is being overblown as a reflection of us as Blazers fans. We turned Jack and the #13 into a top-5 talent and Ike Diogu, who potentially rounds out the best big man rotation in the NBA.

We have every reason to celebrate.

In my opinion, it seemed like an accurate response in the sense that we had no time to respond and we were generally shell shocked. We traded who… and got what? Some people cheered. Some people stood open faced. But the bottom line was the same – we were amazed with what we got out of a player who projected to be our #4 guard or lower next season. We didn’t have to give up Outlaw. We’ve still got Martell Webster. Channing Frye. Sergio Rodriguez. Steve Blake…

That is reason to celebrate.

“Hit the Road, Jack” to me was an exorcism of all that used to be wrong with the franchise, not really a reflection of our disappointment in Jack’s career [I wasn’t at the Rose Garden, but this was my reaction to hearing about all this]. He was a steady guard for Portland, but he joined us during an era of turmoil. The year prior we had passed on Chris Paul because we already had Sebastian Telfair (who?). Jack was Plan 3C when he joined us and we should be thankful he performed as well as he did. But that’s not to say we can’t be excited about the possibilities that his departure has created.

Jack’s game had serious weaknesses and they happen to coincide with areas which we’ll soon need to be our team strengths. He had trouble running the break, and now we’ve got two of the quickest big men in the league. He had trouble shooting from the perimeter, and, make no mistake, our guards need to be able to shoot for us to be effective.

We’re officially not rebuilding any more. We’re rebuilt. We’re reloaded. And we’re ready, in the next couple of years, to do some serious damage. Moreso, I think, than we could’ve done with Jack in the rotation. I’m hoping that Jack proves everyone in the Rose Garden wrong and becomes the point guard (that same Chauncey Billups clone) that we’ve hoped he would become.

"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 27, 2008 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They weren't singing about who we got

They were singing ‘hit the road JACK’. They cheered just when his name was announced , before the whole announcement finished. Had the message gone on to include Roy and Oden in the deal, the cheering still would have happened (though probably ended quite abruptly) just for the simple fact that Jack was in the deal. This post isn’t about people cheering for the excitement of a new prospect, they were cheering to spite him. On top of that, Jack was a good guy in a bad time here on the team. If I’m not mistaken, Webster remains the longest tenured Blazer on our team, and Pryz, Trout and Blake were all here in dark times. I don’t think people would cheer if we dropped them from the roster.

If you think this is overblown, then imagine that you put your all into in a company that went from a shody, terrible wretch of a company to something tremendous during your tenure. Then, right when things get to be really good and you were well on your way to the goals that you had dreamed about for your entire life, you get fired and people start singing songs on your way out the door and they justify it by talking about how much better off the company will be without you. No excuses, that was poor class.

by einman77 on Jun 27, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

your mistaken outlaw has the longest tenure

just saying

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"You're" mistaken.

You’re = you are
Your = possessive

Trade Freeland!

by rockingharder on Jun 28, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just made my day

"Beards--they grow on you"

by prezofdeath on Jun 30, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok...

Sure, I’ll imagine that a company I’ve put a lot of work into pays me over $2 million per year, but then, just as you said, they’ve traded me away right when the franchise got good…

Oh no! At least I’m still making $2 million per year…

If Roy and Oden were involved in the deal, there wouldn’t have been a mention of Jarrett Jack. It would’ve been “Roy and Oden traded along with cap filler for X, Y and Z player.” In my opinion, Jarrett Jack needed the Blazers just as much as we needed him. Had he not been playing for a team that had approximately zero expectations for the past 3 years, he would’ve been buried on someone else’s bench getting Von Wafer minutes…

I’d rather have an empassioned fan base that recognizes the importance of improving than be a part of a “wine and cheese” crowd that refuses to stand in a NBA Finals. LA’s fan base seems to be very classy, but that’s why they wouldn’t cut it in Portland.

"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 30, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for posting this

Like many here, I haven’t been a big Jarrett Jack fan, but I do believe in giving credit where it’s due. He did some things very well for the Blazers, and he kept his nose clean. I wish him luck.

I do think that it reflects badly on “fans” when they heckle or jeer people who are actually trying their best and who don’t have a public persona that invites such behavior (e.g., K0be).

No, we don’t “owe” the players anything except the respect that is due to anyone of us as human beings.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Athletes are sacrificial figures by definition

The exchange they participate in grants them superhuman appreciation and deprives them of the basic human kindness you claim they deserve.

This is not to say that we shouldn’t be kind to them: I think we should. But I certainly don’t think fans of a team owe their players kindness. Often the opposite is true,

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting position

but not one I’ve ever heard articulated by a professional athlete. Is this explained in the fine print of their contracts?

I don’t equate respect, which in turn requires politeness, with kindness.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The agreenment is not a physical one

But it is just as binding. Like an entertainer, presenting yourself before a crowd with the expressed intent to compete and/or entertain is absolving yourself of certain rights, one of which is the “niceties” of common respect that we recognize in person with one another. In exchange, when you perform well, you’re showered with praise and adoration that would make us blush if we were to express it openly to one another in public. When you fail, the same but in reverse. There is no middle ground, no “normal” for people who choose this path.

I’m not advocating being rude to athletes. I am just trying to explain the way things are. As I mentioned above, I’m all for being kind to athletes and performers and so on. It’s just not required and it should never be expected.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're presenting a single point of view

or, rather, a theory of social behavior, as if it is universally shared, or ought to be. It is not.

Recall that a summary execution might await the loser of a fight between Roman gladiators. Whether or not this practice was once popular, we now regard it as barbaric and immoral.

It used to be common practice to shout down opera singers you didn’t like, and to throw rotten fruit at them. Not so much anymore.

Likewise, those who nowadays are rude to performers, entertainers and athletes - and who rely on the excuse that it comes with the territory for such public personalities - are naturally thought by some of us to be a bit uncivilized, to say the least.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't help but find your argument naive

Just because examples of mob mentality are not as obvious as public executions (your Roman reference) does not make them any less prescient or malicious. Think about the way that the internet jumped on the Simpson girl when her lip-syncing was revealed. Think about the way bloggers casually talk about draft “busts.” Think about the impromptu chants that the Boston crowd broke into with Kobe on the foul line in game 6. Or Utah fans booing Derek Fisher throughout the season. Inversely when someone succeeds (like, say, KG this year) he is praised like a god and raised above the mob in pure adulation. This is not some “theory,” this is real life. It is always happening, and when you choose to become an athlete this is what you choose.

The anonymity of the internet provides a more covert and comfortable venue for the ire and praise of the mob. It also gives us a constant record of its actions.

Your claim that this activity is “uncivilized” is backwards. This behavior is the norm and is participle to civilization as a whole. Right now, in our civilization, if you don’t “support the troops” you are a pariah. Is that “civilized” or “uncivilized?”

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see what you're saying

and I agree that people do, perhaps more often than not, embrace various aspects of mob mentality. But it seems to me that you’re letting us all off the hook, saying it’s just human nature, and so on, when I am trying to make the point that we have a choice. We don’t have to behave as mindless animals.

And, I still don’t think that, as a public personality, you have to accept the worst kinds of unruly behavior. You might, unfortunately, expect it. But you don’t have to accept it. And neither do the rest of us, the fans.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the answer to all this can be found...

at the end of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back

For Blazer fans who go lusting,
A new point guard is that sexy girl.
Trade Machine's their pornography,
For one they'll give away the world.

-T Darkstar

by KobeStoppa on Jun 27, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two thoughts

1 Though you both have good points, I’m gonna’ have to side with Catman on this one. However,
#2 How cool is it that we can have this discussion re: Performance and the responsibility of the individual on AN NBA FAN SITE?!
On a related note, I’m going to go start a thread on retrospective sense-making a.k.a. “the garbage can theory” and it’s relation to the Timberwolves draft strategy.

by Montavilla Steve on Jun 27, 2008 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Mob Mentality" is just a euphamism for "Human Nature"

Listen, if we’re going to keep typing “L*kers” then we’re going to have to forgive people who supposedly act “uncivilized” by singing “Hit the road Jack” when JJ gets traded.

Pretending to take the moral high ground on any of this is pure moral relativism, which is a nice way of saying it’s completely hypocritical. You’re arguing degrees. So it’s okay to make fun of other teams’ GM’s at draft time but it’s not okay to cheer a player you don’t like when he gets moved?

Yes, we always have a “choice,” but by being sports fans we’ve already made a choice, and thousands of times every day you make a default decision to go with the flow of everyone else and accept the “mob mentality.”

I’m a fan of kindness but I respect it because I understand it as a rarity and not the rule. To argue otherwise is pure idealism and that is as dangerous as any silly celebration of a departing blazer.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coda

Somewhere between asking an NBA player for his autograph, on the one hand, and stalking him and killing his loved ones and pets, on the other hand, is a line that one should not cross. You and I cannot seem to agree on the location of that line, but that’s okay.

You seem to be more pessimistic than me about the ability of people to make responsible moral and ethical decisions. That’s okay, too.

You keep bringing up “kindness”, though I have talked about “respect”, which is a different word and means something quite a bit different. Anne has already dealt with this well, I think, so I’ll just add that whereas to me “respect” simply acknowledges our mutual humanity and is due every individual except, perhaps, under circumstances that do not remotely resemble what we’ve been discussing, “kindness” is something over and above that, and it is neither required nor expected except among people who are at least good acquaintances (although there are folks who practice kindness on a much broader scale, whom I admire).

Some of your remarks have seemed to be aimed at me in a personal way, and it makes me wonder if you’re feeling somehow threatened by some of the points I’ve brought up. I don’t know you, nightbluefruit, but I think we could have a good time BS-ing about any number of things over over a quaff or two of good ale or wine. But please don’t accuse me of “pretending to take the moral high ground”. I am writing to you from the heart and I trust that you are doing likewise.

And that’s all I’ve got.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where are you from

nightbluefruit? I have associated comments like yours to be made by some New York natives or maybe Philadelphia.

I am undoubtedly twice your age and it may be a generational thing or MTV generation or a Rome smackdown.

I really believe you should treat others exactly the way you want to be treated. Buying a ticket to a sports event does not change that.

by OrygunRod on Jun 27, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright, there's something I need to make very clear

I’m not arguing about what should be done. I’m just saying what is done. In a perfect world, yes, we would all treat athletes with “respect.” However, again, “respect” and “kindness” are too different forms of the same thing.

I hope I can make you understand that I am not calling you out personally, and I don’t mean to insult anyone, but participating as a sports fan and then being outraged at this kind of exploit (the JJ-song thing) is a move to take the moral high ground. People keep trying to take this maneuver with me in this discussion. I am the soulless (foreign) jackal who boos outgoing blazers and heartlessly revels in sports figures’ misfortunes. Well, I’ll say again, I think treating people with kindness (respect) is always prudent and you should treat other people as you want to be treated.

BUT WE DON’T! We CONSTANTLY make fun of Laker fans. We make fun of other teams’ misfortune ALL THE TIME and somehow it’s fine; it’s considered a “part of the game.” Well, I’m just here to point it out to everyone when they do decided that this kind of behavior is disgusting that it’s something we all signed up for by being sports fans.

One individual stalker killing one athlete has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. I’m talking about one athlete who fails in turn getting killed by the press over and over and over and all us sports fans just nodding in agreement. Look at Dan Marino for gosh sakes. What is the first thing that anybody thinks about him? Good quarterback, not good enough to win a super bowl. This kind of behavior is different only by degrees than the Roman execution you mentioned before.

You, personally, Cat Man, make the mistake of thinking I don’t agree with you when you say we should treat everyone with respect all the time. I’m just telling you it’s an impossible ideal. I personally didn’t sing out JJ, and I don’t agree with people who do. But I don’t look down on them because I know underneath it all we’re all the same. We all are the same. And a large part of this sameness is an ugly universalism.

Unfortunately, I’m a born and raised Oregonian. You can’t explain universal human aggression away by blaming it on an east coast upbringing.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 28, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're trying to make this a black and white argument, which it's not.

Killing a man for losing a match and criticizing a man for not winning the super bowl are extremely opposite ends of the same spectrum. However, in today’s society we have clearly defined which of those is acceptable behavior and which isn’t. Being killed in the press is something that does happen in sports, yes. But who is doing the killing? And what does it say about that journalist? If Stephen A. Smith were to trash a guy, I wouldn’t care in the least. If Dave said a harsh comment about a guy I would certainly take that into consideration. If he were to start doing that on a regular basis that would also be taken into consideration as well and my view of him would change.

When we (Blazers fans, not sports fans) trash our own guys, it says a lot. We don’t do that very often (except for the ones that have already trashed us, see below post before stating an argument to this exception). If we do start doing that a lot, how do you think the guys who go out and battle for us every night will view us? How do you think it already has? This isn’t about taking the moral high ground, it’s about expressing what moral behavior we should be adhering to. As Blazers fans. We can’t change everything that happens in sports, but it is up to us to find a way treat each other and our team with an implied (or in this case it is getting verbalized) level of respect. And please stop saying respect and kindness are the same thing. I can treat someone with respect without being kind, as well as treat someone kindly without respecting them. They are completely independent of each other.

I never ‘signed up’ for anything that makes an excuse for my behavior. Making fun of another team is certainly something that I feel I have the right to do without feeling guilty about. I would expect that they do the same. I have no problem with that. If most other Blazers fans I tried to share these views with said ‘you know that’s just not cool’ I would think ‘that really sucks’ and that would significantly detract from my experience as a fan, probably to the point that I wouldn’t spend much time around other Blazers fans who shared this opinion. On the other end of the spectrum, if we stoned the guys who played badly (not a Rasheed and Damon drive on I-5 stoned either), that is something I would also choose not to support. There is nothing wrong with debating where we want to put our line in the sand. If you don’t support what people did, then that’s fine. If you do, then state your view, but realize it’s not a majority opinion and please take that into consideration as your public behavior is a reflection on us too.

You’re simply pushing this in the direction of the stonings. I’m pushing it towards the never criticizing the opposition. Before either of us ever gets close to those two points, we will be pushed back towards this disputed region by both ourselves and other Blazers fans. The point is to respect the line that we can come the closest to agreeing on, and where you are saying the line should be is far different from where just about everyone else thinks it should be. You have to respect that.

by einman77 on Jun 28, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

wich is why your defending your “right” to make fun of others with out guilt. lookig at it from Nights perspective would not absolve us of our missed opprotunity to rise above our NATURAl instinct-see herd mentality-while granting us a free pass to the high ground. she has no issue with good human ettiquet, and seeminly respects such efforts, but is very aware of degrees of the same trait, and is simply offering a deeper look. I hate it for example when in self reflection I find that my efforts to be kind have an altierior motive, selfish in nature, but it offers an opprotunity for improvement. her true argument seems to be the fantastick revalation that acting shocked at standard human behavior is a little nieve. I am probably misinterpreting much.

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You've got it more right than anyone else.

Thank you. I was starting to think maybe I was crazy and it only made sense to me.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 28, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And so I'm being perfectly clear

I include myself in this assessment. I am as subject to the mob mentality as the next guy. I’m as guilty (if not more so) than us all. But I am aware of it and particularly frustrated with morally relativistic assessments that say cheering your own teams’ misfortune is bad but cheering another teams’ is the point.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 28, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

kindness might not be owed

but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it when it’s given.

I also don’t see Jack might have been owed the opposite, but that’s just me.

by abdelnaby on Jun 27, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would hope that you would treat a professional athlete with the same respect you would any other human being

and with the respect you would hope for in return. What happened at the Rose Garden had nothing to do with being unkind. It bordered on the edge of a drunken crowd mentality that you might find in a European footbal stadium. It was ugly, classless and uncalled for. As a Trailblazer fan I was embarrassed by that behavior.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 27, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always treat people with respect.

My point is not that we should be cruel to athletes, just that they should not be surprised (and we should not pretend to be outraged) when people do act cruelly to them.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry, my comment was a little unclear. Where I used the word "you" just replace it with "one".

Also, I think we may be quibbling a little bit about the semantics. Maybe civility would be a better choice of words than kindness. Not to be pedantic because I know that you know the difference between the two words, I’m just one of those people who believes that civility is right in any situation and everyone deserves it until they prove they don’t.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 27, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps I Can Cloud the Issue

I was at the Rose Garden for the draft. When I decided to go, I had some fairly Utopian notion that it would be a collection of happy fans like myself cheering on the Blazers and KP as well as the draft and its implications. I found it to be something less than that. I’m no snoot, but I found it to be VERY close the atmosphere at WaMu the-atre in New York, except with a distinctive Portland vibe (I love the comment someone here made that the collective IQ was somewhere around 100). I expected something like Claudia’s Sports Bar (a place I frequent to catch games) on steroids, but I encountered more of a “Rock-n-Bowl meets the dog track” type environment.

I decided to sit in the bowl and watch it on the megatron or whatever one calls it because I wanted to check out what it’s like to be at the Garden when it’s relatively empty. Also, there were a ton of mutants congregating in the Lexus club and I was more than happy to get some elbow room elsewhere, even if it meant missing out on the experience of “seeing the radio live!!”. Plus, it was stuffy. It turned out to be a good decision, I think.

There was a LOT of tension in the air, as everyone expected some serious KP moves from the get-go. Pressure built and built, Wheels kept coming up leakless, and players were snagged every five minutes. The two older women in front of me yelled and smacked their programs on the railing when DJ Augustin was taken. We were really beginning to worry this draft would come and go and nothing would happen. That wouldn’t be so bad, but we came for a show, dang it! When the announcers on the audio feed broke the news of a POSSIBLE trade with Indiana, there was a very uncomfortable thrill in the air. Everyone was tenuously waiting for details or some kind of confirmation – it had been a long hour or so.

Finally, the unease hanging over us snapped like a twig as soon as an announcer (I can’t remember which) got on the horn and told us “Ladies and gentlemen, Jarret Jack is no longer a Blazer..”. I let out a solitary whoop, and it was among the first. To me, we were finally springing into action. It meant we were trading for a point guard. It meant we were probably only losing Jack and change. This was (and still is) EXCELLENT news. As soon as the rest of the news was announced, the crowd in the Lexus club could be heard with their ridiculous chant over the PA system. My girlfriend and I rolled our eyes, and one of the announcers laughed at not being able to get a word in. It subsided pretty quickly and we all cheered, starry-eyed, at the prospect.

All of that said, here’s my take on the “moral relativism” everyone’s been hashing out. Firstly, this was, as I said, exciting news and I’d say 90% of the people there were cheering in a very “classy” (what a loaded word) way. Second, let’s not forget the frustration Jack has engendered in the last year. Third, put a group of 200 worried people in a room for two hours, give them free salty popcorn and sell them beer and Vegas odds are they’re going to do something stupid and regrettable. Lastly, I agree with NBF that these things happen. They’ve always happened and being offended isn’t going to change that. Then again, it doesn’t mean they’re O.K. Then again, what I think is O.K. may not be what YOU think is O.K. Then again, does it matter what I/you think? Then again..

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 28, 2008 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not outraged at the behavior, but I am appalled.

I am certainly outraged at your defense of it though. I’m sorry, I think you are a funny guy, but this is not tolerable. To not only defend this type of behavior, but to insist that there is a type of clause in moral behavior that applies to the way we can treat athletes and entertainers is outrageous.

Yes, we do hold athletes up to a higher standard. The entire community puts a lot of hope into them (and a lot of time and money) in the hopes that they can deliver on their promise of potential. If an athlete were to take all that everyone has given to him and not put in the effort, or worse, get himself into trouble and disgrace the community that supports him or her, then they should rightly be booed or possibly even cheered for when traded (if there is a complete lack of respect in the relationship between the athlete and the fans), which in my opinion is the worst insult you could give a professional athlete. However, that person would have already obviously not cared as much about the community. That is not the case here. Jack was a class act in the locker room and the hardest worker outside of it.

The point of this particular post is to take a look at the situation and call our own standards into question. There is no doubt that people have differing expectations about what is proper fan conduct. There seem to be a lot of people who think this particular incident was out of line. You, on the other hand, are vehemently advocating that this is what is to be expected from fans by a professional athlete. Unfortunately, you are right. However, that’s not how it has to be and that’s not how it should be here. Let’s get it straight, whether you are an athlete or just any guy on the street, you should expect the same amount of decency that you show to other people. That standard was not met by us as fans when the Jack trade was announced.

Your argument pertaining to the fact that we disrespect the L*kers, that we boo them and trash them, well that IS also to be expected by a professional athlete. As much as it pains me to admit it, that is a form of respect. It is a complement to be the athlete that fans of the other teams hate (at least because of play). Even booing your own when they make a poor play, I don’t condone it, but we’re on the same page with them. They messed up. They are as disappointed as we are. In fact I have no doubt that they are more so. Booing them is a lot like beating a dead horse, but at least they are on the same page. Really though, I am from Philly, and I couldn’t stand the way that the fans jumped on the team at the drop of a hat. I stopped cheering for the Sixers because of the atmosphere that the fans created. Portland is different, not in the action, but certainly in the threshold and the acceptability of it. I felt it when we were the worst in the league and I feel it still now.

Mob mentality is NOT just a euphemism for human nature. No way. It is a part of human nature, but it is a part that is based on reacting to the situation, of doing things without thinking just because others around you are doing it. We can rise above it. If the crowd started fighting, would you join in? How about if someone pulled out a knife and started stabbing other people? Would you do it? I hope not. The reason you wouldn’t is because that has been ingrained in you that it is the wrong thing to do. In this instance, those people were wrong. What’s done is done, but if the people who did it can look back and realize their mistake then that could almost make it a worthwhile mistake. Defending it deflects the blame. That’s why I have a major problem with what you are writing.

Jack put his heart on his sleeve. That’s how he played and no doubt how he lives. This man didn’t have thick skin, he was crushed by the trade and no doubt crushed by the reaction. This wasn’t someone who didn’t care about the community. We betrayed that man and the culture that KP is trying to create. Make no mistake about it, the team can only be responsible for their end of promoting a positive culture. The rest is up to us.

Today on the Blazers website they announced there are only 400 season tickets left. That means that everyone who has them will get to know the people around them well, even if you only end up going to 4 games together all year. If everyone is on the same page about the conduct that we should expect then even the people who only buy a game for the night will fall into the ‘mob mentality’ of our culture. All it takes if or someone to open their mouth and let the other person know what they are doing is wrong.

No, I am not idealistic. I do not think it’s out of the realm of possibility to employ an understanding of mutual respect. I don’t think it’s out of line to expect that from the people around you. I think that it can change. I challenge you, or anyone else reading this who considers themselves a member of the Blazers community, to be a catalyst for that change.

by einman77 on Jun 28, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

O.K.

Let’s be proactive catalysts for change and stop calling Raef “RLEC”. It’s dehumanizing and disrespectful. Like Jack, he is/was a member of the Blazers and, like Jack, has done us no wrong other than not being very good (at least for our team).

I think this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion; so a bunch of drunken losers sing a derisive song. So someone gets undeserving ridicule. Of course, it doesn’t add much prestige to being a Blazer fan, but I consider it no knock on my credibility. As per your suggestion, I’m definitely NOT going to police other people’s conduct when I attend games. Their behavior is their behavior and I’m all for letting people experience the game as they choose. Decisions regarding crossed lines and penalties are ultimately best left to the Rose Garden, its policies and its employees, don’t you think?

Personally, I don’t think fans get a “you don’t have to be a decent person now” card, nor should they. I hold myself to higher standards in daily life and fandom, but that’s kinda what I’m getting at – they’re MY standards. If you, a stranger, were to ‘open your mouth’ and tell me the way I appreciate the Blazers is ‘wrong’, I would be insulted. That action, in fact, would go under bad behavior in MY book. Just as I strive to be courteous and expect the same, I reserve my own standards for my own actions and expect the same.

@einman – I read your whole comment and I found it very well-written and thought-provoking. It even changed my mind somewhat. I’m not trying to attack you at all.. just kind of volleying back the birdie. Also, why does it pain you to admit that booing is a form of respect?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 28, 2008 4:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You do bring up some good points there

And thanks for the props. You’re right, RLEC is actually a bit dehumanizing. In fairness, he hasn’t lived up to anything near what he was brought on to be (at least in the mind of the person who gave him the money), which is a part of sports. In context, really his trade value is nothing more than that acronym. If you were to apply it to him as a person, I’m not sure it would ever go over very well. ’ RLEC had 3 blocks today’ is awkward at best and a bad joke at worst on the surface. When talking about a trade, let’s face it, that really is the best part of his package. Sad but true. But that stays here. If the Blazers are scouring this site, they better be ready for their fair share of criticism. If I was Raef, Blazers edge is the last place I would look. There is, however, a big difference what we say here and what we say in the Rose Garden. That’s like talking about the way you don’t like your girlfriend’s new hairdo to your friends behind closed doors. It’s not really that big of a deal, but saying directly to the other person does turn it into one and unnecessarily creates a situation . Screaming ‘RLEC’ at the Rose Garden wouldn’t really catch on and probably confuse most people (even people who knew what it meant would wonder why you are yelling it), so it’s not much of an issue. Screaming ‘Reaf, you suck’ every time he gets the ball would evoke feelings from myself if I was near you, as well as other fans, and from the player. You would get want you want to say off your chest, but it would in my opinion do more harm than good. That is where I believe the line is.

I don’t think this issue is blown out of proportion what so ever. It’s not that a few people did something that was utterly classless. It’s that they did it in our house. Also, what they did wasn’t horrific. But not addressing it or passing it off with no accountability opens the door to more and worse such actions. Honestly, all the trade rumors and predictions and other things that happen on this site are a nice way to pass the time and keep our minds focused on a really important topic, but don’t change a whole lot. This is something that we are in complete control of. This is how we chose to represent ourselves as a fan base. Make no mistake about it, what you and other people do in the Rose Garden casts a light on the Blazers as an organization, Portland as a city, and everyone who has ever dawned a Blazers jersey in support of the team. Do you remember when Eagles fans threw snowballs at Santa Clause? It wasn’t the whole stadium, but for decades that incident hung over the organization. People act like I had something to do with it and I wasn’t even born yet, not to mention in the same stadium (Sorry if you don’t remember it, it’s where I grew up and the only thing I could pull up right now).

As far as policing other people’s behaviors goes, don’t worry about it. You don’t have to do anything with what I have said. If you feel this isn’t for you, then it’s not for you. It only takes a few people to make the change, you don’t have to be one of them. Excusing or condoning it is something that will make it worse. To take the reigns and talk to your neighbor in a way that challenges his representation of us as a fan base and a city is something that can only open both of your horizons. I am simply highlighting the reality of the situation. As per where the burden of responsibility falls, the enforcement of rules are up to the Rose Garden’s staff. The definition and enforcement of it’s norms are up to the members of the community. I can’t stress enough that that is what we are, like it or not.

I don’t have a problem with the way someone appreciates the Blazers or doesn’t. I have a big issue with the way that someone respects the Blazers or doesn’t. I consider this quite personal and treat it as such. I’m not saying I’m perfect. Far from it as a matter of fact. I have blasted people who came on to this website and openly cheered for the L*kers and the dark prince himself during a game. I thought that was completely off limits and let it be known. Some members of the community let me know they thought this was inappropriate. Others thanked them for expressing their views and apologized for the negativity they received. Both ways got the message across. I still don’t think this is alright, but being that my actions reflect on other members of this site, I respect that and keep my mouth shut when such instances occur. If no one had said anything I probably would have kept doing the same. If more people had joined in on the trashing, or at least defensed my actions, I would have, well, I would have further investigated how I would handle the situation, but I certainly would have let my argument be known. Who’s to say whether what we do is right or wrong other than us? But it will reflect on every one of us.

I don’t mind the volley or any questions you have about my views. I appreciate the fact that it got you thinking, as what you said also got me thinking as well. This isn’t black and white, but I think it would be worthwhile to sort out exactly how deep a shade of gray we want to portray. As to why admitting the booing is a form of respect, it is because I am openly admitting that when I hate on that disgusting purple and gold uniform that I have to see all too often, it’s only because I truly fear and respect what it represents. Again, it pains me to look at that in such a way.

by einman77 on Jun 28, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Think..

this argument comes down to two distinct camps:
1. Those who found it in poor taste and would prefer to elevate Blazer community consciousness.
2. Those who found it in poor taste and would prefer to respect individual interpretations within the fanbase on what is an acceptable way to root for the Blazers.

I’d say I fall into the second camp, but that’s really kind of trivial – I wouldn’t say #1 or #2 are either “good” or “evil” or “smart” or “dumb”; in fact, I don’t think one could value one over the other in virtually any capacity.

The point, though, is I haven’t seen ONE PERSON here who was in support of the singing itself. NBF seemed to take a more laissez-faire attitude towards it but never applauded it, as far as I read. I think we’re all just arguing differing ‘paths up a mountain’, except the top of the mountain is what we all knew already – in our opinions, the song sucked. Some just seem less outraged and want to take less action. Call me a little cynical if you like, but this sort of action doesn’t really surprise me. It happens, and while I am not resigned to accept it, I am dedicated to valuing others’ decisions based on what they think is right or wrong over seeking to control those actions based on what I think is right or wrong.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 28, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not cynical

And I’m not surprised that it happened in sports. I am kind of surprised that it happened here, but Jack has become a target of late and I can see some people taking it to this point. In the midst of that moment, I could even understand people wanting to sing and joining in without thinking too much about what they were singing. In retrospect it’s kind of despicable, but it’s understandble how it happened.

It’s just like players going out and heading off to strip clubs, smoking joints, and all the stuff that the team of 5 years ago had become famous for. Now there is a completely different kind of culture. If someone on the team were to consider making decisions like that, they would understand that other people on the team and the management are already holding them to a higher standard of behavior. That understanding wouldn’t happen in retrospect, it would happen before the player ever went through with their decision. I am not shocked when I see this type of behavior by professional athletes. I would be shocked to see it from this team.

We represent another branch of the same red and black tree. Some of the fans at the garden will choose to engage in behavior that, as you pointed out, no one is condoning. I don’t think there is much of a difference between defending what they did and condoning it if you believe it was in poor taste. Anyway, As long as you are more aware of what you consider to be acceptable you will have more options. Whether you want to join in or not. Whether you want to shoot a glance or not. Whether you want to say something or not. It is completely up to you how you handle such a situation that could arise. I do think that the with the way the organization has held the players more accountable now, it would be irresponsible if we let fan conduct deteriorate to the level of other teams in other cities.

by einman77 on Jun 28, 2008 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want you to listen to your own words.

If the Blazers are scouring this site, they better be ready for their fair share of criticism.

I think you’ve more or less proven my point. What’s the difference between doing it here and doing it in the rose garden? And one dude stabbing a bunch of people isn’t going to make everyone pull out their knives and join him. A whole bunch of people stabbing will cause more to join them, though. I hope we’re all familiar enough with history to realize this is true.

This is my argument in as much of a nutshell as I can fit it in: as sports fans we behave aggressively by definition. Let’s stop acting surprised when the aggression takes a form that we find offensive. Instead of attacking those who engage in the activity, try to look at our own behavior and find those ways that we are the same as the people we hate. Then change those behaviors from within rather than talking ourselves silly about how offensive it all is.

FInally:

Jesus challenged a man without sin to throw the first stone because he knew once that first stone was thrown all the others would follow.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 28, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The context is different

There are certain things that you can expect from this site, and it is different from what you can expect in the arena. That’s like saying what’s the difference if someone punches another guy in the street vs in a boxing ring. Also, if a bunch of people started pulling out knives and stabbing other people in the Rose Garden, I seriously hope you or most people wouldn’t actually consider joining them. Also, if that was the case and you tried to blame this completely on ‘herd mentality; you would be crucified by just about every person with half a brain. I don’t even know where to begin with this one. We’re not trying to stone Jesus again here, and if someone did I hope you wouldn’t defend that as well. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but would you mind if I asked you how old you are?

Just one more thing, if we’re all victims of this unstoppable force of herd mentality, then why are you so resistant to go along with what everyone else is clearly putting forward?

by einman77 on Jun 28, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find your questioning of age to be condensending

but thats just how I see it. i could be wrong tho, im wrong a lot.

wisdom is not entitled through age, or even expirience

expirience is a prerequeset, conditionaly

wisdom is atained threw patient self examination, or quiet observation.

if I can see 500 hundred feet into the distance, and the guy standing next to me can see 800 feet into the distance, untill we walk side by side long enough, only one of us will be aware. when discusing the sights of our furthest view, there will certainly be disagreements.

humans are pack animals. simple.

your right, you can and should expect certain things from this site, thought provoking debate, for sure. also, you can expect that when people begin to hold themselves above others, using degrees of the same trait they themselves often readily and in som cases, proudly diplay themselfves, someone like Night might point out the hipocracy. the argument protecting the right to laugh at gms, reduce raif to relic, make fun of other teams misfortunes, or even Kobe(please note the respectiful capitalation) while acting indignent when a VARIATION OF THE SAME ROOT TRAIT (laughing at jack) is displayed in offence to ones own personal agenda, ie sensibilitie(...said in little schoolgirls whiney voice…. I like Jack) is like listening to a prostitute promise loyalty, just not a lot of weight in that one.

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 29, 2008 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right. Sorry.

I shouldn’t have brought up age. I won’t try and justify it, I simply apologize.

by einman77 on Jun 29, 2008 3:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what einman, I don't think you have anything to apologize for.

If nbf wants to discuss her age she will. If she doesn’t she’ll tell you it’s none of your business. Then you can apologize. I guess there are people who don’t see shades of grey. Your debate with night has been edifying and entertaining.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 29, 2008 4:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grey is one of the most interesting and versatile shades on the palette.

People would be much better off if they recognized the value of grey.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 29, 2008 4:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

But when I questioned nights age, the implication was more than a number. It was bordering on a personal slight, and for that I do apologize.

by einman77 on Jun 29, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well..

How old are you, einman?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 29, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well put

31 if that was a serious question. Point taken if not. Both noted if it was somewhere in the gray.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm..

a spring chicken at 25. Shades of grey it is, though kindly, not callous.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understood that. I just didn't feel you needed to apologize to ptwnblzr.

Night is perfectly capable of conducting her own defense of her stance. Although I disagree with her I admire Night’s ability to debate an issue and her tenacity in arguing her point. You certainly can’t impugn her intelligence!

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 29, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

to Night might have been more appropriate. ATF, for some reason, a small part of me hangs my head in shame with out your approval:( Nevertheless, I persist. I agree that Night is verry capable in sholdering the burden of presentation of a thead of perception, and certainly one of a smaller number resilient, or patient enough to bare to numbers. But it was the lonlyness that attracted me.

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 29, 2008 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm 24 years old.

1: I guess you’re unfamiliar with the Bible. When Jesus challenged a man without sin to cast the first stone, he was protecting a woman accused of adultery, not himself.

2: I guess you’re not familiar with recent African history, either. When a whole bunch of people start stabbing a different group of people, the tendency is to join in. When a whole bunch of fans decide Raef Lafrentz should be called RLEC, the tendency is to join in.

3: Maybe the reason I’m not willing to bend and agree with the majority here on the site is because I’m aware enough of mimetic contagion so as to be able to identify when bending to it would be compromising my integrity.

I answered your question. I have some of my own. Why are sports so popular? Why is the urge to attach oneself with a specific team so strong? What do you know about the history of sports? I have considered your point of view. Have you considered mine?

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 29, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have

I’m honestly not familiar with the bible, but I can see the point that you are making with that. I actually see your argument and understand it. I certainly agree with you to an extent. My point is that this type of mentality can be averted before it ever becomes a reality. Both Jesus and the African struggles you are refering to have a strong element of social acceptability. That comes not merely from the spur of the moment, but there is a context, a culture if you will, that allowed those incidents to happen. If there were a group of people who started stoning someone in Pioneer Square, I would be strongly inclined to believe that others around would stop them. Similarly, if a group of people from Nebraska stabbed some others from Wyoming, I think that we would still be safe from an ensuing genocide. If race were an element in such an act the country wouldn’t revert to the civil war, but there would likely be more violence that ensued because that context of that. Yes, people are influenced by what the groups do, but, just like you, if they believe what the other people are doing is wrong then they won’t join in. The degree to which they believe it’s wrong and the strength of the person dictates thier response.

That is why I have a problem with your defencing the actions of those people singing about Jack. Saying it’s purely them following the actions of others just gives them a free pass. It creates a culture of acceptability for those actions. It seems that most people on this site (and I would hope most Blazer fans) would agree that this was not appropriate. It is up to us to dictate to each other what is appropriate and what’s not. Yes, it is acceptable in some cities. Is that the type of city and fan base that we want to be identified with?

As for your questions about the popularity of sports and the strength of it’s attraction to a specific team, it satisfies a lot of needs, including identifying with a community of peers. Again, I am not disagreeing with you on that point. I did, however already give up on one team because I was not in agreement with the culture, and the actions that I had the most problems with were fan related (influenced by the media to a degree). I would hate to have that happen with the Blazers. Again, as I said before, the arena is alomst sold out of season tickets. It will be on us to create the atmosphere that we want. With the Jack incident, all it would have taken would have been for one really upset person to stand up on their chair, turn around and yell ‘knock it off’, and likely most of the people would realize how they were being offensive (I don’t know the size of the crowd there, so the assumption would be that everyone could hear that person). Next year a lot of people will know their neighbors somewhat well, at least enough to know what to expect. It doesn’t have to be as awkward and forsceful as that, but some people do need to take the lead and at least in subtle ways (glances, possibly a non offensive comment, certainly NOT joining in with them) to let others know what type of context we accept here. The management is trying to make this a model organization from top to bottom. We are the bottom. They’re doing thier part, I think we should do ours.

by einman77 on Jun 29, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hm..

It is up to us to dictate to each other what is appropriate and what’s not.

Really? What if fans with whom you disagree dictated to you what is appropriate and what’s not?

Furthermore, you use the word “we” a whole lot in the last two paragraphs. Just to be clear, who IS “we”.. BEdgers? Blazer fans who share your opinion? Blazers fans proper? The “royal we”?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 29, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you don't agree with me

That’s fine. If you told me that you have a problem with the foundation of my argument and that because you, as a sports fan, have the right to any behavior you see fit, I would accept that. There’s nothing I can do about that. If that is really how you feel and an opinion shared by the majority I would shut up. I would also (if it truly was a majority opinion and people acted that way) probably not come to this site very often and just get rid of my tickets. By compliance, acceptance, tolerance and intolerance, it certainly is up to us, Blazers fans, which a subdivision is the Bedgers, to accept what it is that we allow ourselves to do.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doh

that last sentence is supposed to say ‘dictate’ not ‘accept’. That was kind of a main point of that post. Oops.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So..

the singing was NOT indicative of the Blazer fanbase? An aberration or splinter sect, perhaps?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was

but that kind of behavior represents up all as a fan base. As I said before, when I tell people I am an Eagles fan, I still get comments about the snowballs to Santa (1968, nearly a decade before I was born), the batteries thrown at the Giants players (80’s somewhere) and the lack of decency as a fan base. Those few people have tarnished the Eagle’s fan base’s reputation and Philadelphia’s as a whole. I know from experience the actions of a few are not strictly regarded to those few. That is why I am so big on not tolerating that kind of behavior if I see it as indecent. I don’t want the culture to slip creating a different context. This team deserves better than that.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Hear Ya

I’m a NY sports fan by heritage so I definitely remember the battery incident being a big deal. I also remember Giants fans throwing snowballs and the game nearly being forfeited because of it – I’d say that’s letting your team down!

Still, I wouldn’t want our public perception to be “the intolerant prudes” any more than I’d want it to be “the people who killed Santa”. I guess I’m a little more passive about the situation, though.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I probably wouldn't want to go to games

If things got too uptight either. That would take all the fun out of it, in the American context that is (come over to Japan for a baseball game for a different perspective on sports fans behavior. Not nearly as fun IMO though). Regardless, I don’t think we’ll be in danger of that happening any time soon. The tendency of sports fans is to slip downwards, and this incident would certainly mark a slip in our behavior.

And no way the Giants repeat this season.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You Can't Hurt Me with That

I still talk about the Super Bowl and go “oh yeah, the Giants won, that, didn’t they?”

Totally unexpected and other-worldly.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since you're a Blazer fan

I’ll admit it. I’m jealous. Hopefully someday we can share a championship together.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Think..

I’m only responding so I can see how narrow the text boxes get.

But while I’m here, it’s nice to see us agree on something. I’ve come to respect your opinion over the last 20,000 words and you fandom is not in question whatsoever (not that it ever was). Keep up the good work!

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've played this game before

with Almart1 and TominHawaii. Do you want me to tell you how it ends?

Wait, that was the old format. I’m not sure it will be the same with the new layout.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 3:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's See

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

#25

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pritchslap

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Could Be It

Does someone else have to reply to indent itself again? I’m replying to the bottommost comment, FYI.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It goes on this way

ad infinitum. I was there with Mr. inHawaii and Amlmart when this experiment was done awhile ago on this version of the Bedge. It does do a lot for the scrolling muscles. Of course, since there are different elements involved this time it may change the results.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 30, 2008 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what different elements would that be?

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 4:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A different mix of

people contributing to the experiment is the most significant. Maybe this bunch can compress their thoughts into a squeezier format.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 30, 2008 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like This

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I need to make this absolutely clear

I’m not saying mimetic behavior caused the Jack haters to sing, I’m saying mimetic behaviors turn us into sports fans; in essence, that sports fandom is facilitated by a universal need for communal aggression.

“We” here at BE engage in different forms of this aggression all the time in the fanposts and comments. I have no problem with this. Just like I have no problem with fans taunting Jack with a goodbye song.

However, as ptwnblzr noted earlier, I do have a problem with people who regularly engage in sports-related aggression acting outraged when someone does the same thing. No one has explained to me how “RLEC” or “K*be” or “Rashweed” is any different than “hit the road Jack.” And no one ever could because they’re exactly the same.

If everyone in Nebraska stabbed everyone in Montana, you would take a side. If you sided with Montana, you would stab the Nebraskans and vice versa. This is the essence of mimesis, and by extension, the essence of sport. I think your eyes would really be opened if you took the opportunity to study the anthropological evidence regarding the genesis of sports.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 30, 2008 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My “We” questions were directed towards einman’s comment.. just so ya know.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I know

That was not intended to answer your question, but instead to point out how einman is arguing using the terms of mimetic contagion. S/he really keeps proposing evidence that proves my point—that was an attempt to demonstrate it.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 30, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to argue with any of your main points

But Raef was traded to be a RLEC, so he was always a RLEC in a Blazer fans eyes.

Jack being traded seemed to bring a level of glee that should only be reserved for rotten apple type players, ala Qyntel.

Being termed a RLEC is dehumanizing, sure, but as far as his current NBA career is concerned, and especially his Blazer years, he solely exists in the NBA as an expiring contract. Teams won’t be trading for RAEF, the shotblocker who shoots 3’s, they’ll be trading for his contract. SO, when we discuss him in trades, we discuss the contract and not the man.

The next time he’s traded, if he is, Raef the man probably won’t even have to report for duty. It truly is just the contract we’re concerned about, so I find it different than ‘YEAH, that horrid Jack is finally gone we can now be free!!” reaction from draft night.

I also think an important difference in acting aggressive towards Kobe or former ‘Jail Blazer’ players is that they are not seen as ‘one of us’. That’s what disturbed me about the Jack reaction: people were treating him like he had been the enemy all this time and they couldn’t wait till he was gone. We shouldn’t treat OUR OWN, our Blazer players, that have actually been good and represented us proudly, like they are Kobes or people who have brought shame to the franchise.

The aggressive acts are usually reserved for ‘outsiders’ or Blazers who bring us shame, and even though Jack technically became an outsider as soon as the trade was announced, his play and behavior when he was ‘one of us’ didn’t warrant the cat calls.

I agree with what you are saying, and I find it factually true, so don’t think I’m arguing those points.

I just still find it odd we broke the normal agreements between fan and nice players on a team, and took such joy in his mere removal from the family. Even if we’re glad for the trade, which I am, we don’t act that way towards the player leaving.

Maybe it was just the hunger for a blockbuster KP draft day trade, but it didn’t come across like that over the olde-tymey radio…

Obviously I am not articulating it as academically as you, or as clearly…

And of course we even get angry at ‘our own’ during tense moments or when huge mistakes are made, but I don’t think this qualified as one of those moments…

Oh, I dunno.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

recced.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 30, 2008 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

also think an important difference in acting aggressive towards Kobe or former ‘Jail Blazer’ players is that they are not seen as ‘one of us’. That’s what disturbed me about the Jack reaction: people were treating him like he had been the enemy all this time and they couldn’t wait till he was gone. We shouldn’t treat OUR OWN, our Blazer players, that have actually been good and represented us proudly, like they are Kobes or people who have brought shame to the franchise.

yep, witch is to say that if you live in montana, I will stab you. lol

......and even though Jack technically became an outsider as soon as the trade was announced, his play and behavior when he was ‘one of us’ didn’t warrant the cat calls.

in your apinion, obviousley his poor play did infact warrent such behavior for maney. but there pedistal isnt high enough to decide if it is really ok.

the disiese that jack represents, like cancer or ganggreen, did not symptom in crappy off court charictor, or an arregant lack of effort, but rather in a simple but undeniable lack of skill. And I for one am happy for the cure. KP has expressed that we need to focus on building a winning culture, that he will take a less talented guy with the inate ability to meld with, and buy into the team concept, BUT THEY MUST BE TALENTED. he is not drafting from the church league, and he is not seeking a non prophit background, just including a certain leval of selflessness(witch is a shade of grey) as an additional requirement, understanding that stats alone no longer suffice. in degrees, we are fortunate to have jack be the greatest source of pain, how privalidged as sport fans are we?what does him being one of us have to do with the need for improvement, sheed was one of us, zach, dan dickou, ect there have been many members and maney reactions. yah? so? having charictor is great, but if your sharing my wallet, and bed, you better be good looking.

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 30, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, he wasn't good enough

Thus, he was traded. There was nothing that had to be exorcised there.

I think there are clear distinctions between a Sheed, a Dan Dickau, and a Jack. One embarrased the franchise while ‘one of us’, one is an eternal scrub who we have no reason to attach ourselves to, and one was a starter/6th man who was a key part of our team for the last 3 years.

I am fine with trading him, and I agree that he HAD to be traded. I’m not saying you keep a guy because they are nice, not at all. I am saying the cheering and joy with the mere thought of Jarrett Jack no longer being a Blazer in no way matched his negative impact on the franchise, and it does not match any trade reaction I can think of.

People were more divided on Sheed being traded, even though he CLEARLY had to go if only for his contract was soon to run out and he wouldn’t re-sign with us.

If the crowd had first been told “WE HAVE BAYLESS”, and then everyone cheered, that would be different.

No one is arguing against improving, just the disrespect of a guy who did our team proud and whose time had run out as a Blazer. I just don’t get the “haha, you suck Jarrett hope you like corn you jerk” reaction to the deal.

We should reserve that reaction for the ENEMY, or those who embarrassed us. I don’t expect a Dan Dickau or a Von Wafer to get a reaction one way or another.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 3:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Not only did he not emabarrass us

he was a model player off the court. Last season he got his own parking space because he was the hardest worker during the prior off season. He wasn’t able to live up to what was expected of him, but he really did try. The others took what this community offered them and said ‘forget you, I’m still doing what I want’. Jack did the exact opposite.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 3:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Exactly

I don’t see how a fanbase like ourselves, that prides itself on being mature and knowledgable and expecting a lot of our players and enjoys the lifelong ‘relationships’ to our favorite players, could be okay with treating a former player like that when ALL he did wrong was not being talented enough.

Treating Jack like a Laker just seems so wrong to me, and a direct violation of the Blazer Fan Code.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 3:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well..

I’m impressed. I’ve learned a LOT about Blazer heritage through this thread; I’ve only followed them for a couple years and had no idea the still BEdge waters ran so deep.

One question: what qualifies someone as an “enemy” – embarrassing us?

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 30, 2008 3:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enemy is best left vague

I say, anyone who is on another team while we are playing them or anyone who is a Laker or upholds the Lakers core tenets of poop drinking and holocaust denying.

Or, if as a Blazer, you bring shame to the franchise through inexcusable behavior: Ruben Patterson is a great example, as is Bonzi or Qyntel.

If someone had a bad attitude and we’re just dying to get rid of someone, ala Z-bo, that is a different case as well.

Maybe this is all Wheels’ fault… if he didn’t lead with “Jarrett Jack is no longer a Blazer”, and instead just said “we have a trade to announce” or sumthin’, then we could say the fans were just excited for a deal, and not overjoyed with the idea of getting that team cancer Jarrett Jack off the roster.

I’m not usually that sensitive about this sort of stuff, just extremely surprised with how much Jack was disliked.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 30, 2008 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

is any really suprised

jack was not loved by all, was he voted in the anual pole as the blazer most likely to live out his career in portland?

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 30, 2008 3:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

we never depended on von wafer, never caried the role. Dickou, was more of a charictor then jack, or so it could be argued, but with an equal(maybee not)lack of pure talent. but more importantly was traded from a diferent team. moving from a 4 to a 5 or a 5 to a 6 might not generate much emotion, but from a 7 to an 8.8 or a 7,4 to a nine just might, wspecialy when the difference means a new benchmark for expections and success. on our team jerrets lack of talent was the most glaring(of those that we depended on), on dickous team, he was simply standard.

I do agree that the reaction in no way matched jerret negative impact on the team, especially considering the franchises, and all members total body of work. but instead match intrinsicly the improvement the move represented. if 2 tenths of a second make no diference to the out come, then they go wholey unoticed, but are celebrated when they decide the outcome.

now I no that the anticipation for some improvement was killing the croud, and jerret was decidely the weekest link, so when it was anounced- well music ensued. if someone less desirable was revieled as our prise, im sure minds would have been changed. but like a trusted spouse, no one worries if KP ihas been out all night. so a little trust was in the air.

I am not condoning the behavior, but am questioning the indignant responce to it, while in the same breth, the fierce protection of a version of the same vain. we are all human, so treating a family member disrespectfully and treating a stranger disrespectfully, a team meber, or an aposing team member disrespectfully, is at its very roots, disrespect. like a tree, disrespect branches to many forms but the trunk, no matter how it is justified, colored, accepted or ignored, is the same.

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 30, 2008 3:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did explain it

please note the above passage with the header ‘I am not outraged at the behavior, but I am appalled.’ for the K*be and ‘Rashweed’ part. And by Morty here (just read it now Mortimer, not trying to steal your thunder).

The Nebraska and Montana scenario you mentioned is something that wouldn’t happen right now. There is no context for it to, no set up. That’s where the fallacy of your argument is, you shift situations around from context to context like the surrounding factors don’t matter. I would take a side in that scenario, but I wouldn’t go stabbing anyone without some context that severely affected my life.

Furthermore, sports fandom is facilitated by a universal need for communal aggression to an extent, but a very small extent these days. Blind aggression does not control sports and fan behavior as a whole. Sports at it’s genesis is a lot different that the sports of today. As far along the evolutionary ladder as when we were apes, infanticide was a normal act of a male taking a female if that female had an offspring from another father. That doesn’t mean it would fly today. Context.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I get it. Night is using Bedgers as research

for her thesis in, what, anthropology? :p

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 30, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You got me

But I’m conducting investigations every day with everyone I meet.

And as for Anthropology, there’s an old joke that goes like this:

If Anthropology, Sociology, or Psychology were right; they’d be the same thing.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 30, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Infanticide still occurs today

And you would take a side in a scenario in which Nebraska went to war with Montana. I cannot believe anyone living in this country wouldn’t.

Sports at its genesis has everything to do with sports today, and I have no problem calling anyone who says otherwise ignorant.

My problem with anyone who wants to separate “our guys” from “their guys” is that they think that they have the power to decide who is a friend and who is a foe. Which is arrogant. If a certain group of fans want to demonize Jack they have every right to—that is, if you argue that degrading players like Raef, McBob, and (formerly) Dickau is alright.

Or, you can peddle moral relativism and say, “well, we should never turn on our own players unless a and b and c are true; then it’s fine.” If you choose that path, I’m going to call you on it. And I use “you” here collectively for anyone and everyone.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 30, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It occuors

but that doesn’t mean it is right or should be condoned or even ignored.
2. I would take a side, as I stated before. I just wouldn’t kill anyone unless I felt it absolutely necessary. 3. Sports at it’s genesis represents it’s history, not it’s current state.
4. Being safe from an ensuing genocide is an absecence of context, not a context itself.
5. Morality is relative. Anyone who says it isn’t is an absolutist. Arguing with them is like arguing with a wall.
6. There is no need to call me or anyone who doesn’t agree with your views ignorant. For the last two reasons I cannot continue in this debate any longer.

by einman77 on Jun 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

My Nebraska—Montana comment came from your words:

Similarly, if a group of people from Nebraska stabbed some others from Wyoming, I think that we would still be safe from an ensuing genocide.

So there’s your context.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 30, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOLOLOLOL

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
Mom

by ptwnblzr on Jun 30, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jack didn't deserve cruelty

But we’re not required to be kind to him either.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I tried to convey before,

one shouldn’t expect or require kindness from strangers or aquaintances but one has every right to expect civility from a fellow human being. I realize that the world is going to hell in a handbasket and I may be old fashioned but if people treated everyone as they themselves want to be treated we’d be in a much better place.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 28, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Screw you Ann!

It is way more fun being offensive.

I’m just kidding. I just could not resist. I totally like nice people better than jerky people. I don’t like my friend’s future husband just because he’s rude to waiters and waitresses.

<-;-)

by tominhawaii on Jun 28, 2008 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm. I found this screw and recognized it as yours, Tom.

Now take it back and try not to let it get loose again. A little silly putty should do it.

Your friend’s fiance sounds like the worst type of offender in my opinion. They pick on people like waiters and waitresses because they’re an easy and defenceless target and usually will not respond in kind because they want to keep their job. You should tell your friend that he is gonna end up treating her the same way. Book it.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 28, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely

Knockin’ waiters/waitresses is like knocking on orphans (ok, slight exaggeration).

I’d tell your friend to ruuuun from that dude.

"Beards--they grow on you"

by prezofdeath on Jun 30, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way...

Who’s sad about McBob going? I made fun of him so much I’m numb to McBob humor now.

But seriously, I want an example. And not a sarcastic/ironic one.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

McBob will maybe be a good player

I kinda liked the guy for his athletic ability, court vision, and apparent zaniness. I didn’t get too attached because we hardly saw him on the court. We have enough talent left that I think I might be able to fight off a descent into depression.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 27, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm kind of sad, I thought he had so much potential and was underrated

But I like Joel Freeland, so take it as you will.

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on Jun 27, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am sad

because we never got to see him mature. You never know.

I remember the good old days. The Rasta Monsta days.

by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 27, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not

for whatever reason, i never liked that guy.

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Jun 27, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sad about Mcbob leaving

I saw no future for him on this team and I don’t think he will ever be any good.

by tweener on Jun 27, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought this view was obvious.

But I guess I was wrong.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 27, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good riddance to the Dukie

Some of the media people seemed dissapointed because they’ll miss his personality. But unless he could beat out Frye, there was no room in our rotation for him.

For Blazer fans who go lusting,
A new point guard is that sexy girl.
Trade Machine's their pornography,
For one they'll give away the world.

-T Darkstar

by KobeStoppa on Jun 27, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Rice at times

seemed to be saying that McRoberts was doing well in practice but Nate is all about winning and did not give him a true game time test.

McRoberts got way behind with the injury in training camp and he never caught up after that. To me, it seemed like he never got a complete opportunity to show what he could do. One thing I did see, he can really finish at the rim. The defense and overall offense never was on display.

by OrygunRod on Jun 27, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only the immoral think people with morals are whiney.

You, my friend, are a good person, and your post isn’t whiney or self-righteous at all. Treat others as you would have them treat you. A good motto to live by.

I expected JJack would be traded, and I believe it’s best for the team, but I always liked him. He had a great personality. I’ll miss him and hope he does well for the Pacers.

Besides there are many female fans out there who will miss his booty (also tominhawaii).

"...and that loud noise you hear coming is the Portland Trailblazers." - Charles Barkley

by RebelRogue on Jun 27, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

I love Jack

He’s been one of my favorite players. He’s the type of guy Portland wants, hard worker, classy, leadership skills. He was a big part in the changing of our culture. I think he has a long career ahead of him, it just didn’t work with us. I’ll miss him, but at the same time I know he had to go. It’s like a mutual breakup.

by Jason3123 on Jun 27, 2008 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

At top of my tickets that I want next year will be

along with the normal L*ker game, I want the JJ1 game the most just so I can give the guy a stand and some noise, JJ was a one of the few shining parts of the later Jail Blazers years and I will always love his intensity and heart… Good Luck Jarret, I know you’ll do great!

The pictures kinda small, but Im giving the C's a big thumbs down

by Blazermaniac77 on Jun 27, 2008 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hear, hear!

I will stand and applaud when Jack enters his first game back here. People may be upset that he was the guard chosen when we could have had Paul, but he is one of the faces and personalities that changed the Blazers. Before Roy, Jack was the guy that I admired. (I just didn’t think that his game fit here; I think it will in Indy.) I will always have an admiration for Jack and Coach Cheeks. Good men should be looked up to and in this case celebrated.

by parkinglotj on Jun 27, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the cheers were really about the "what will kp do "

variety rather than cheering the exit of JJack. I though hit the road Jack was terrible . But i really think the anticipation as far as what KP would do w/ the 13 th pick and the answer to that was more what people were cheering for.

That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic

by BlazerFan1 on Jun 27, 2008 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If I were at the live draft

then that is why I’d be cheering…

“YES!!! We’re making the move for bayless and Jack is going and he’s a piece that needs to go!”

Not the Jack going but the a piece of our team that needed to go in exchange and anticipation of what was to come.

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Jun 27, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure it was because of glee about Jack

despite whatever more positive interpretation you’d like to give it.

by Section323 on Jun 27, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What really irks me about it

Is that while Jarrett wasn’t the best player on the team, he was a locker room leader and was well respected by the team and his peers. No reason to jeer at that. We asked for good human beings and as Blazer fans threw a fit when we had scumbags and were losing, but everyone is quick to jeer a player who was a good hardworking person. While we may not have understood it, there was a reason that Sarge liked him so much.

I just hope that when we find success in the future we don’t turn into worse fans. It was hard to be a Blazer fan for awhile here (trust me I live in LA, dont think I dont hear it all the time with my blazer logo on the back of my car) but now that we are on our way up, lets act like we have done it before and not start acting like aholes. Just remember 4 years ago you could have switched that Sac Draft Thread for one on here.

I remember the good old days. The Rasta Monsta days.

by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 27, 2008 3:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Only one problem

He isn’t a very good basketball player by NBA standards. That’s the only thing that matters.

I’m not at all sad to see Jack go, AND I appreciate the professionalism and good nature that he brought to the team, the community, and allegedly the locker room (I’ve never been in there so I don’t know).

I also agree that “Hit the Road, Jack” was inappropriate. I can see getting excited about the trade (I certainly was/am!!!) but that’s a little personal, and that’s not really what it’s about.

I agree with the calls for Blazers fans to continue to be a classy fan base and respect our players, not make them either heroes or pariahs.

by kickbrass on Jun 27, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

Thanks for all the replies; I appreciate getting other people’s takes on the situation. I can understand the perspective that it was mostly about people being relieved having found out about the trade – and maybe that’s what most of this was – but, it seemed like it crossed the line a bit and that’s what I had a problem with. Maybe I was being too sensitive.

And, NightBlue, I’m not sure whether we owe or don’t owe them anything – I know what you’re saying – I just wanted him to go out in style. We’re better fans than that and it just cheapened the night for me…

by ThereGoDaGame on Jun 27, 2008 3:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I liked Jack

that said, I think there’s a realization that Jack was a part that didn’t fit. I would hope that’s what people were cheering. Moving Jack to another team getting something of value in return and thus it not really costing us anything because we needed to move him anyway.

It as an excellent move. jack is definitely a player I liked. My favorite memory was the recording that was on you tube where he told brandon that if they beat chicago he was going to hug him.

I loved that character. Maybe the mistake in toronto is that jack told brandon he’d kiss him?

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Jun 27, 2008 4:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I've never understood it

Having attended about 30 home games last year, I can confirm that there was true hatred for Jack among many fans. I watched my neighbors in Section 323 swear when he came in the game, and I truly saw the ugliest (in a scary way) face I’ve ever seen anyone make when the guy behind me screamed obscenities at Jack after the infamous Denver loss.
It was odd as I watched the finals this year, because in some of those games, there were a lot of really bone-headed turnovers, some at really inopportune times. They happen, even to stars. And yes, I know that some of Jack’s were terrible. But did they make or break this team? No, they did not. During the last month of the season, I don’t think he stepped out of bounds once, yet the perception remains that he never improved and will never change. That remains to be seen, but I’m puzzled by the whole thing and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

by Section323 on Jun 27, 2008 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't agree with you more

I never understood the depth of some of the Jack hate I encountered at games. It went beyond rationality and had a scary side. I worry about who’s going to be the focus of all that anger next year.

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -- RIP George Carlin

by Corvid on Jun 27, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!

No idea why he inspires the level of frustration in some fans of the team. I think it has something to do with passing on Paul and the Sergio situation. Even a comment above claims he is not a very good player by NBA standards. I don’t even understand that comment. He won games for the Blazers and often times kept the team afloat when it was struggling.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Jun 27, 2008 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

(Referring to : “I watched my neighbors in Section 323 swear when he came in the game”). And I’m going to be part of this group next season? I’m sorry to hear that. Where we were last year there would be groans at turnovers (mine included, but groans are directed at the event, not the player) but I don’t recall rude behavior toward any Blazers.

I

by jorga on Jun 28, 2008 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, most of them were in Section 322 actually- across the aisle

I’ve besmirched our reputation. There are two pretty obnoxious guys a few rows behind me, but overall it’s a decent group of people. I don’t want to worry you!

by Section323 on Jun 28, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree 100%

I get that we didn’t have room for Jack anymore, and I agree that it is better to trade him. But the level of outright HATRED he got was ridiculous for such a hard working, GREAT kid.

How spoiled are we? He’s the sort of player we supposedly craved for years, and he always played hard, worked the hardest, and was a great leader on and off the court. And we boo and/or cheer for his removal? What the hell…

Again, I think it was a great trade. I’m glad he’ll get a fresh start and a role he’ll shine in over in Indy. I just hate how normal Blazer fans treated him with such virulent hatred, when all he did was play hard.

It’s crazy to me.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mort....you know he did more than work hard

There were legitimate reasons for wanting him gone. That being said …people are overreacting all over the place. Cheering his trade and especially singing him out was an overreaction. Much of the discussion regarding the term “pritch-slap” was overreaction. The reaction to the Ben’s story about the Bayless-Jack trade and KP’s part in it was rife with overeaction….to the point that it was pulled and then rewritten. My contention is that being sports fans breeds overreaction. You cheer for something that is strictly for entertainment. This really is not normal in other contexts (do you cheer at home when the CSI guy solves the case?). I think it stems from the group dynamic (I remember cheers in the movie theater when Rocky won the fight in Rocky II). Anyway….I doubt there was real hate involved…..I think the crowd took the dislike formed from some of the plays Jack is known for making and ….overreacted…..as usual.

BTW I am not immune to this but don’t think I would have joined in …that being said I would not have chastised those around me that did sing along either. They were behaving as expected….somewhat poorly. It also should be noted that JJ wasn’t in attendance…if he were I suspect the reaction (overreaction) would have been different…I could be wrong though

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get what ya mean

And sports fandom by its very nature dehumanizes the players, and we don’t always treat ‘em as we would normally treat a person. I get, and understand that, and I do it also with players I don’t like (I can’t stand Antoine Walker, but I hear he’s a nice guy, for example).

But Jarrett got a lot of crap from Blazer fans, especially in regards to that damn Sergio situation. Saying he’s only getting playing time because Nate has some homoerotic crush on him, saying he is useless, stuff like that—I do think a lot of people hated Jack, or at least strongly disliked him more than, in my opinion, anyone should dislike a guy who plays hard and is a good kid—especially with where we came from when we drafted him.

I wish Sergio wasn’t some exotic Spanish kid and was instead just a random American player. If his name was Jermaine Washington and he was some PG from Marquette or Syracuse or sumthin’, and everything else about him was exactly the same skill and talent wise, I doubt everyone would be clamoring to play Sergio over Jack and getting so angry at Jack.

I really agree that everyone is overreacting to a lot of wierd stuff right now… it’s odd. We’re really happy about the draft, inter-web people are finding us annoying, the Bobcats thingy that prolly isn’t KP’s fault, the Pritch-Slap business—it’s a lot going on and people seem emotional about it. I don’t mean to overreact to the way Jack was treated, but listening to the radio it made me pretty upset.

Just the thought of trading Jack made the Rose Garden crowd cheer so loudly, as if he was JR Rider or sumthin’. I don’t get it.

BELIEVE ME, I was as annoyed as anyone with his dumb, dumb mistakes. But, I knew most of his turnovers were attempts to make something happen (Sergio as well), and not turnovers out of laziness like Darius Miles would do. All of his faults will go away with experience. I absolutely know he HAD to be traded, both because of his contract situation and the roster crunch we’ll have at his position (I figure Rudy will take all of his minutes because he is a better player), so I am fine with trading Jack completely.

I just really, really didn’t like the hatred/strong dislike Jack got from some Blazer fans, and the cheering that took place upon news of him not being a Blazer anymore. For a franchise that had so many awful people as players in the past, cheering the first guy we drafted who was the epitome of the NEW Blazers is just classless to me. He worked harder than everyone, pumped everyone up, was willing to fight bigger players, played with heart and passion.

Turnovers or not, how is that worthy of how he was treated?

People who follow sports get to “hate” the other team, let out some anger and aggressiveness, and I am totally fine with that. But Jack wasn’t the enemy, he was one of ours, and a great kid who won us some games as well. ASIDE FROM DUMB TURNOVERS that weren’t as common as some think, what was there NOT to like about the kid?

If we didn’t have Rudy Fernandez coming, if we didn’t have Bayless coming now, Jack would be great for this team.

I like Sergio, I think he has potential, but his play never earned him minutes over Jack, and I stand by my assertion that if he was Joe Blow black PG from Random State University with quickness and passing but no shot and no defense, no one would give a damn about the kid.

With a cult favorite behind Jack, and Jack’s addiction to sometimes-dumb mistakes, Jack got a helluva lot more guff than he deserved. Certainly he deserved some for the turnovers, but not to the level that it reached.

Like I said, I just don’t get it.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know what you're getting at

Maybe it is the heat or something…but there is a lot of overreacting going on. That being said …..I don’t think it is true hate. I think it is similar to something that happened at a game I was at. It was after the streak and JJ committed one of his turnovers and I said to my wife (yelled really since it was loud in there) “Trade him now!!! Right freakin’ now! Before the end of the game”. If I wouldn’t have been amped up by excitement and in the middle of a disappointed 20K of other fans…I doubt I would have reacted the same ( if I was watching on TV or something for instance). After the game, at home a few days later I wasn’t that fired up any longer and got to thinking that if we ended up keeping him it wouldn’t be the end of world (for all the reasons you laid out). I do know if they would have announced that Jack had indeed been traded during the game …I bet I might have sang and it would have been a lot worse too since JJ would have been right there to hear it.
I guess I just understand what caused it and cut the other fans a little slack

I think it was good trade too. I do appreciate what JJ did as far as hard work/solid citizen. It was just time

BTW I think you are dead right regarding the JJ v Sergio thing. It made it much worse than it might have been with general fans. I am undecided about whether there is a racial component involved …I think you hinted that there might be and I am not sure you are wrong. However McBob never got the support that Sergio got so maybe it is just like you stated and it was about “exoticness” or maybe the fact that he got so pumped up by management because he was part of that stellar 2006 draft (the genesis of the Pritch-slap). We won’t really know now.

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey there More Teamer

Since Mr. 92 has mentioned the Sergio/racial thread of your post, I would like to briefly weigh in as well. I think you are wrong about that, or at least you are not universally correct. Obviously, I can’t speak for others here, but my own position is this: I LOVE Sergio’s crazy ability to see where everybody is and deliver the ball to somebody right where they want it to score. There is NOBODY else on the team who is that good at dishin’ dimes. The passing game has always been a favorite part of basketball for me, and Sergio does it right. He also has a nifty ability to split double teams and get to where he wants to be on the court. This capability is not as rare as his passing, but it a valuable quality he brings to the game and is one that, together with his passing, makes him entertaining to watch.

I know that if you want to win, you will go with a big clumsy guy who can simply drop the ball through the hoop rather than somebody with lots of finesse who can’t seem to get the job done. But, as I’ve said before, I’m not necessarily all about the winning. I like to be entertained.

However, I do agree that he has serious weaknesses in his game, weaknesses that really should keep him on the bench most of the time given the other talent on the team. I hope he works on his shooting, his finishing, his defense, and whatever else Nate wants him to work on. If the rest of his game ever catches up with his passing and ball-handling, he’s got a chance to be right up there with the best.

"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"

These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

by CatMan2 on Jun 29, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure it's not universal

And I don’t mean to blanket all of Sergio’s supporters with that sort of statement. I actually count myself as a Sergio supporter and think he has a chance to be good (a chance that gets slimmer by the day perhaps); we just haven’t seen anything that shows he is improving and can actually run a team, which somehow gets ignored by his more devoted fans.

In fact, I think Sergio isn’t even close to as good as Sebastian Telfair was and is, and he never got the level of support and love Sergio gets. Telfair was flashy, he made great passes, he could split double teams or break any press. Obviously it was a terrific move to trade him for Roy, but even before the stupid gun-in-the-pillow debacle he wasn’t well regarded by the average Blazer fan and hardly had the love and support Sergio gets.

If Sergio had finished out a season the way Telfair finished out his rookie year, averaging about 12 points and 7 assists a game over the last 20+ games, there would be rioting on the Bedge until Nate played Sergio over Jack and maybe even Blake.

Maybe Sergio is just innately more likeable, and Telfair’s hype coming into the NBA sure didn’t help. Telfair was also a late lottery pick, and Sergio was a late 1st rounder bought for spare change. I just find the disparity in support odd sometimes, when Sergio hasn’t played better than dozens of the college PGs who don’t find a home in the NBA.

He’s got great court vision, and when he’s got it going he really gets it going. He does have something special, but the level of support he gets vastly surpasses his actual play, and the level of guff Jack got great surpassed his actual ‘bad’ play on the court. I think they were often tied together as Jack was seen to be in Sergio’s way, and since Sergio’s play is mostly bad, it leads me to believe there are sometimes other reasons he becomes so popular.

It’s not all racial of course, and I think it’s more his exoticness. With some people though, I think him being a cute n’ goofy white kid helps. It’s irresponsible of me to imply that the biase is racially motivated, but I do think a lot of fans like him more for his white Euro Spanishness and it helps them overlook his often poor play, and someone like Jack doesn’t get the same break.

Not all white players get that support; no one cares about McBob of course, so it isn’t entirely racially motivated… it’s complicated. Maybe it is merely mostly the exotic factor.

The Sergio love confuses me sometimes, especially when combined with the Jack hate. I’m not totally sure how I feel about either situation.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"The Sergio love confuses me sometimes, especially when combined with the Jack hate. I’m not totally sure how I feel about either situation."

I am there. I wasn’t one of the people who thought Jack was holding Sergio back. That being said, I observed (here and elsewhere) that many times the same people who showed the most Sergio love also had the most Jack hate. I definately felt that Serg wasn’t playing well enough to play over any guard on the roster (even Wafer). I think even the most ardent Sergio supporters are beginning to think that he will have to go elsewhere to get over the hump (assuming he ever does).

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mortimer, Mortimer, Mortimer

Thank you for being Mr. Articulate on this whole mess. I’ve been stewing about the Jarrett hate the whole past season. I just don’t get it—it’s so out of proportion. It’s definitely been the most negative thing about the last season. (I’m confused about the Sergio adoration as well, but since it’s love, not hate, it’s not evil.)

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -- RIP George Carlin

by Corvid on Jun 29, 2008 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

".....since it’s love, not hate, it’s not evil"

You have obviously never been stalked!

Joking…sorta

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 29, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great login name, by the way

by Section323 on Jun 27, 2008 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, I'm a huge fan of the Starksville Sniper!

Actually, I like that name even more….

by ThereGoDaGame on Jun 27, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nature vs. nurture

Some fans, often older, seem to think the only thing keeping every player from greatness is heart, work ethic, and personality. Jack didn’t overachieve, ergo he’s a bad apple. When players fail to live up to expectations, few are willing to blame those who set the expectations in the first place.

No one ever said Jack had a great dribble or eyes in the back of his head. Now that we know that’s true, we’re dogging the man?

Jarrett was a class act and worthy of the uniform. I’ll miss him…

by Engineering Problem on Jun 27, 2008 5:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good call, man

Jack played hard. Not always with his head screwed on right, but hard, and that’s all one can ask from an athlete. I’ll always remember sitting courtside at a game near the end of the season last year. Jarrett hit a big BIG 3 to put us up by a couple I think, and celebrated by screaming into the crowd, directly at me as it happened. We both started tugging at our jerseys (i had just gotten a Roy) and yelling. It all lasted about 10 seconds but I’ve never felt more a part of the team.

Good luck, JJ!! You will be missed.

Hubie Brown is my Idol.

by BigCelPhone on Jun 27, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was hoping the JJ /McRoberts appreciation thread

could be something like 500 comments about how great they were for the team and community that those guys could actually take a peak at on their way out. I doubt they read much press on themselves during the season and whatnot, but a “Good Bye Card” would’ve been nice. I almost feel like trying it again and seeing if we couldn’t be a bit more positive. All things considered, those guys were good players that tried to make the team better. It’s not their fault they didn’t fit.

by rmcdougall on Jun 27, 2008 9:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

couldn't agree more...

best of luck to JJack… he doesn’t deserve the hate.

We don't NEED the draft. -Mortimer 6/18

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 27, 2008 9:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting discussion

I didn’t get to read it until this morning so I’m slow with my comments, but once again I am so impressed by BE readers. I don’t know if Dave or Ben came in and deleted any inflammatory comments, but all I read this morning was intelligent discussion and sort of a “agree to disagree” type of mentality. I think we have to acknowledge that we’re seldom going to change anyone’s mind about many of these topics, but at least some of the readers are open minded enough to allow others’ dissenting thoughts into their own reasoning.

One thing I think that has been overlooked in the discussion is the influence of alcohol in the behavior of fans. There were a couple of mentions of “drunken crowd” and “drunken losers”. I don’t think anyone can deny that alcohol loosens inhibitions. There are even some of us who might cringe at the memory of some of our own “under the influence” behaviors. Alcohol can make one step over that line the separates “human nature” from “mob mentality”. Maybe under normal (sober) circumstances you would never boo Jack, but having “loosened up a little” you just might express happiness at his departure. I am not saying this in defense of those who booed, but simply as a reason why it happened.

FWIW, I looked at the Jack appreciation thread as APPRECIATION and I wrote my comment as if JJ1 would be reading it. He wasn’t one of my favorites and I’m not sad to see him go, but it wasn’t hard to find things to appreciate about him.

I

by jorga on Jun 28, 2008 8:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hi all

probably not making friends but….... I posted my distaste for Jack in another thread, and have already been reamed(to a degree, rightfully so-bad taste analagy). But still…. I remember all the times we hated him….anyway, to the point, Me and a co-worker will alternatley log on copy and paste posts, and email them to ourselves so we can read BEDGE at work. II was responsible this morning and thought that a an after draft recap might be enjoyable, I did not realise that it was nothing more then a love fest for jerret jack.. This was his responce…

the fact that I believe with everything in my Blazer loving body that Jarret Jack is a terrible basketball player and my willingness to express it has nothing to do with my class or the quality of my fanship… As a long time Blazer fan, it is in fact my duty to rejoice when terrible players like Jarret Jack are finally gone. A player with upside…sure…did he makes some nice floaters in the lane…sure….that’s about the extent of his positive contributions. The negative contributions though – endless pouting, repepat sideline offenses in critical game time moments, streaky shooting, etc – far outweigh the 1 or 2 games he made a positive difference this year. Seeing this, I feel it is our duty as Blazer fans to celebrate every step forward that we make as a team. “Hit the Road Jack”...”and don’t ya come back”...- yup…i’ve got no problem sayin it…lets put it this way – If a guy kicks you in the balls till you’re blue in the….face…, is it classless to celebrate when he finally stops and goes and finds somebody else’s balls to kick? Jarret Jack will no longer be able to kick our team in the balls….and i would, with dignity and class, like to say that I am elated to no longer have such a bad player on our team. Again, just because I despise the quality of his play and the negative contributions he made – including the space he wasting on our roster that was just waiting to be filled by a guy who doesn’t suck – and am excited to see us upgrade in that area doesn’t mean i don’t have class and don’t fully love my Blazers. I agree we shouldn’t curse the day he was born or start a seperate BEdge site devoted soley to dogging on old players that we traded because they didn’t have potential….I simply think it’s rediculous to dog on people for being happy that we’re better….and calling them classless? Come on now…

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

but don't you see that it was kind of a bad choice

to post in the JARRETT JACK APPRECIATION THREAD that you hated him? Why not just ignore the thread?

by Section323 on Jun 28, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Trade Freeland!

by rockingharder on Jun 28, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the post I made personaly?

yes I did see that. I was late with my understanding, ie after my reactionary post. and in retrospect, the analogy, altho an acurate depiction of the impending trade, imo, was poorly thought out with out sensitivity to the “appricitive” thread, and consiquently in poor taste. I admit my carelessness, with regret and remorse. In fact, it could be argued that since I had nothing positive to say, I might not have said anything at all, It did taint the feal.

My post belonged hear.

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One Time

My sister’s boyfriend in high school, hooked up with an itchy case of Guillain-Barré syndrome. It messed him up bad. He was completely paralyzed.

For about two months, on my days off from Sam’s Super Bugers, I would pick up my Southern Baptist girlfriend with my sister, and then we would drop off my sister at the hospital. She would spend the evening with her boo, while I hung out at the mall with my sweetie. After hanging out, we would go back to the hospital and make out in an empty hospital room.

After visitors were no longer allowed, my sister would drive my girlfriend home. We would make out in the back seat on the way home, because that’s what you did back in high school, before MTV corrupted America’s youth. I would go home those days with intense blue balls. It was a pain that could only be compared to the pain Jack must have felt when he found out he was traded.

The point of my story is that the first time I saw my sister’s boyfriend all paralyzed and on a respirator, I said, “Better you than me.” Probably my worst joke ever. It wasn’t the time nor the place for such boorish behavior.

<-;-)

by tominhawaii on Jun 28, 2008 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

the jack appriciation thread was the wrong place to post my coments, better would have been hear. it was like going to a wedding to try and hit on the bride, wrong place, wrong time. live and learn, thanks for letting me know that I am not the only making mistakes in this world.lol

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you will notice

that if you read my reply to the respoce I recieved in the jack appriciation, that I did, belatedly, catch on, and appologize for my poor taste. Also that I prefaced my coworkers respnce to this thread, for those that were aware of my presence on the jack thread, like you, of my acceptance of the….... there is a word for it that I cant think of right now, closet I can think of would be like – social disapline i (notice the phrase- rightfully so) recieved. Mabey you didnt notice, or you really want me to notice?

"We didn't get our annual free complimentary player from Phoenix this year:("

raoulduke

by ptwnblzr on Jun 28, 2008 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cheered...

and I liked the guy. It was a good move for the team so why not cheer? Us Blazer fans tend to get a little too attached to players I think. Alaa anyone? Duckworth? And I don’t remember anybody getting their you-know-what’s in a bunch when people were cheering for Darius Miles and his medical retirement.

Come on people, He was a good person by all accounts, sure, but if him leaving means my favorite team gets better, and in this case a lot better then whatever, good guy or not, attachment to him or not I’m going to cheer. Good luck Jack… but bring on the future! Hooray!!!

Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag. Meanwhile, Katz scores an interview with a rattled Rush, who forgot to take off his Blazers hat and has a "Man, this sucks, I was excited to play video games with Greg Oden" look on his face. Weirdest moment of the night that didn't involve a Lopez brother. - 'The Sports Guy' Bill Simmons

by doublezeroduck on Jun 28, 2008 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Buuutttt...

Listening to the broadcast, no one had any idea WHAT the move was, only that it included Jack. Thus, they were cheering the simple fact that Jack was gonna be a non-Blazer.

It coulda been a trade for Eddy Curry for all anyone knew, and they were cheering.

Jack worked hard always and was a great kid. He wasn’t a lightning rod of problems on and off the court like Miles. There was no reason to outright HATE Jack like some fans did.

Not saying you were like that, just pointing out that the fans were cheering BEFORE they even knew it was a trade or anything. They coulda been saying Jack was just in a car crash and no longer was a Blazer, and the fans were cheering for it.

This Jack hatred, especially in the light of the love Sergio often gets, is insane to my membrain.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 29, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I Said Waaaaaaaaaaaaay Up in the Thread..

I was there, and I will say this: The announcers had been pumping us with maybes regarding the trade for ~10min before the Jackapalooza. I guarantee everyone there knew that “Jack is no longer a Blazer” meant the trade went through. I cheered (didn’t sing) for the trade, and I think a significantly large percentage of the people there did so for the same reason.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 29, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I must be in the minority, I don't feel like I owe anything to JJ

And I’m glad to see he was moved. It’s nothing personal, the NBA is a business. I want me team to have the best players.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 30, 2008 8:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jack will be fine

Building a championship team will always mean that in order to fine tune a roster, players will get traded. Too often, of course, some fans tend to get personal as they have no patience for the process nor the time that it takes. Jack was a part of a building process. We had some good players, but we had some weaknesses as well. Jack did not have the “perfect” position open, simply because of that. Roy will handle the ball more than other SG’s, meaning the point works differently with a Roy. We had no inside post presence, meaning Jack didn’t have the big man to go to under the rim. And so forth. Jack was a pretty good player and played hard every night. At times, he probably tried to do too much – given he didn’t have as many scoring options as some other teams might have available. Right now, we have three rookies slated for the first two teams, and two more likely to set on the third team, Batum and Koponen.I have no doubt that next year, there’ll be those who get angry at any one or all of these for one reason or another. Some will expect Oden to come in and play like a 4 year vet, and will undoubtedly mutter when he turns out to be human and have to go thru a learning curve as well. Others will be angry that Bayless or Fernandez aren’t the instant reincarnation of what – ever ideal they have created in their mind.

Fortunately, the large majority of fans aren’t that way – as the players know.

Jack will have a good career. Those that trash him, and those that like him, don’t have to worry about that.

by Eben Calder on Jun 30, 2008 9:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think most fans

I think most Blazer fans can simply say, “I liked Jack as a person, or personality, but I didn’t like him as a player for this team at this time, and I am glad we traded him.”

The Singing was absurd.

by usmcr3049 on Jun 30, 2008 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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