More Barbosa Rumors

by Majikj0n on Jun 20, 2008 8:15 AM PDT Comment 67 comments

The Arizona Republic is reporting this morning on a rumored trade involving the Blazers and Suns.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0620sunsnotes0620.html

Money quote: "A Portland deal would have sent 21-year-old swingman Martell Webster, next week's No. 13 pick and another piece for Barbosa."

For "Another piece", read "Jarret Jack, McBob, or Sergio".

While the article seems to imply that this one is, at this point, dead, trades like this have a way sometimes of re-emerging in a slightly different form on draft-day, so who knows?

Poll

Barbosa for Martell, Jack, and #13. Good trade for Portland?

Yes

73 votes

No

109 votes

Maybe

43 votes

225 votes | Poll has closed

4 recs | Comment 67 comments

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Comments

please god yes

this would be unreal

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 20, 2008 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

But I don’t know if LB will start. If KP pulls the trigger on this, how would LB fit in. Would he come off the bench or start? I think he would come off the bench which would strenght our second unit. There’ s also talks about us trading TO for the 3rd pick, MN. That would be an interesting trade…

by kungfukid on Jun 20, 2008 8:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

he would definitely start at 1

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 20, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

I guess we’ve hashed this out in another post, but I can’t think of one team that runs a two shooting guard set (no true PG) with any success…

Three things would have to happen to make this deal an absolute success…
1.) Resign James Jones ASAP. Although Barbosa is a very good three-point shooter, I still think we need someone more consistent than Travis Outlaw spreading the floor at Small Forward during certain stretches of the game. Jones seems to be the most ideally fit to replace Webster’s minutes.

2.) Define Barbosa’s role almost immediately. Ideally, Barbosa is the first option on fhe fast break (as he will be the first one down the floor) but after that, it’s his role to fill in the gaps and hit open shots. We don’t need him to run the 1-on-3 fastbreaks that he likes in Phoenix, we just need to him to provide the initial pressure, and then fill in as a secondary or tertiary offensive option in the half-court set.

3.) Have Coach Nate and the Enforcer (Mo Lucas) take him out back and beat him with a “Rock the Garden” thunderstick every time he races down the floor and forces up a contested 1-on-3 lay up before anyone else on the team has even reached halfcourt. I realize we need easy baskets, but our lineup is built to be just as efficient in the halfcourt (probably more so) than it is in the fastbreak. He can push the envolope, he just doesn’t need to force it…

In my opinion, Barbosa would struggle to run the offense as a true point guard, as that’s not really his strength, but with Brandon Roy handling a majority of the point guard duties, I would be excited for the NBA Live 09 lineup of Barbosa, Roy, Outlaw/Jones, Aldridge and Oden.

In real life, however, I’m extremely worried that a bunch of teams have tried to operate without a true point guard (Atlanta, I’m looking at you) and failed miserably. My hope against hope would be that Barbosa could play the Daniel Gibson to Brandon Roy’s Lebron James (not a talent comparison, just an analogy of offensive roles) and also learn to defend the point guard position with some tenacity. Right now, he’s a liability on the defensive end…

"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 20, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think

barbosa can run the offense at least as well as blake. he creates a lot of matchup problems for our opponents. i think his basketball iq is higher than people give him credit for.

there would be an acclimation process certainly and most likely he would give nate some serious fits, but the talent gap between barbosa and anybody we have is big enough to make it worth it.

also ideally we would send over 1 more player than we got in return, allowing us room (roster and rotation) to resign jones. i’d rather have barbosa and jones than jack/martell/pick any day.

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

I would say Barbosa + Jones is better at their specific strengths than Jack, Martell and whomever is left for us at #13.

I’m not necessarily doubting his basketball IQ, but I’m doubting his court vision. When I’ve watched him play (on TV and three times live at the Rose Garden), I’ve always noticed that he dribbles with his head down. It seems like a trip back to my elementary school days when I say that you pretty much never want your point guard to have their head down unless they are barrelling to the hoop on a fastbreak.

Plus, we can’t really understate how crazy Nate McMillan will go while watching Barbosa let his man drive by him, so he can start streaking down the court for the fast break. Granted, our interior defense should be tough (with Aldridge, Oden and Przybilla) but Barbosa won’t do much to help Greg Oden’s foul trouble if he’s constantly letting his man get into the lane…

I guess the biggest question is: Do Barbosa’s offensive strengths make up for what looks like his defensive liabilities?

At the risk of sounding irrationally attached to our current roster, I’d also like to point out that we don’t really know what Greg Oden will do to our lineup (not to mention Rudy Fernandez) and the point guard position in particular. Of course, you’ll say “But Greg Oden doesn’t play point guard!” But the fact is, a dominant post player can make the point position a pretty easy job. Look what Shaq did for the careers of Tyronne Lue, Derek Fisher, and D-Wade to some extent. Zach Randolph made Jarrett Jack look like a pretty good option for two years…

My thinking is that with Oden and Alridge blossoming down low, the Blazers might not need a top-10 point guard to take them to the promised land. The NBA has never seen a roster with two young dominant big men (Duncan and Robinson but Robinson was much, much older than Oden and/or Aldridge), plus you throw in a do-everything super-guard like Roy, and who’s to say that we won’t have everything we need right there?

For the next two years, our offense seems like it will remain relatively simple. Pick-and-roll with Oden for the alley-oop (which Blake/Roy can do), pick-and-pop with Aldridge for the midrange jumper (which Blake/Roy can do), Roy on the isolation or screen-and-drive (which was our bread and butter last year) and then the occasional let’s let Outlaw or Webster show their flashes of brilliance…

To fill our needs from a PG stand point, it looks like we’ll only really need someone who can…
1.) Break a press.
2.) Shoot the three-ball.
3.) Stay in front of his man on the defensive end.

Now, I’m not advocating that we hail Steve Blake as our franchise point guard, but shouldn’t we at least figure out what we have before we start breaking it apart? We’ve got the cap space to make a move down the road if need be, but for right now, shouldn’t we at least make sure that Oden doesn’t turn Blake into John Stockton?

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 20, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well stated

i hear you. defense and court vision are definitely the two knocks on barbosa. but i have bad memories of felton just killing blake/jack too. those guys aren’t defensive stalwarts. from a court vision standpoint i prefer blake to barbosa but not by much - and again i would prefer to have barbosa/blake/roy/rudy than what we have now, by leaps and bounds. that is arguably the #2 backcourt combination in the nba behind boston rondo/pierce/allen/house- tons of flexiblity, great shooting, different sizes, speeds, looks. that would just make me drool if i was nate (even if i knew barbosa was good for a few souvenir passes into the stands every game).

that backcourt is setting the terms of every game we play… we would determine the pace, we are the aggressors with that lineup. as it stands we are too reactive. adding barbosa also means less double teams on roy, etc. less minutes roy would need to play, etc. i love the added flexibility it would provide.

and yes with our size we might not need a top 10 point guard, but if barbosa is available for scraps, we would be foolish to wait… way better to have extra talent than being in a position where we are hoping that average talent will play over its head.

WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, i talked to HA about this topic this morning. and guess what? he agrees with you. :)

here you go….

me: we would be crazy not to do this barbosa trade right?
TrueHoop: Is it real?
me: i think realer than most
not to get all french philosopher on you, but is anything real?
TrueHoop: Big difference between owners actually considering it, and Sam Smith talking about it.
me: indeed… but if they are counting on nash for 3 years then $arver has got to be thinking i dont want to pay this guy
and the phoenix fans dont seem overly enthralled with him
we’ve got cheap talent, $ and picks to help cushion the rebuild
how many games does barbosa win for them next year, 3 or 4 max?
TrueHoop: Yeah, it’s interesting.
I’m lukewarm on him as a point guard
love him as a backup 2
and pray he’s still developing
he needs to change speeds
move laterally
defend …
He’d be the end of Sergio
me: sergio’s jumper is the end of sergio i’m higher on barbosa as a point with blake backup than almost any other possible starter/backup combo, definitely than any of the others floated
as a backup 2 him rudy and travis could be a vicious combo
TrueHoop: I guess the good part is that if you start him with Roy, he spots up and shoots over people.
And he brings a lot of joy to the court
me: ideally greg covers up some of his gambling/perimeter defense problems too … and on offense with barbosa/roy/shooter/aldridge/oden that is so many matchup problems
TrueHoop: Greg’s going to average a foul a minute this season
me: lol oh i know
TrueHoop: we’re going to need more perimeter D
not less
me: indeed. do you think barbosa will be an allstar in the next 2-3 years
TrueHoop: He’s in a group of like 100 players who COULD be, but it’ll take a kind of internal drive that he has not yet demonstrated.
me: gotcha… my enthusiasm is tempered… you win this round thanks henry
TrueHoop: I trust Pritchard.
And I’m fine with giving up Martell.
but the cap space is precious.

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 20, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Anyone have the link

to the arizona story being sourced on tis one?

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 20, 2008 8:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Geez,....what a maroon I am

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 20, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Man

That was really funny.

I wish I was one computer programmer. I would make one random trade rumor generator. I would have it post the results on one webpage and allow folks to sort by team. I think it would collapse the internet.

PTLAPTA

by tominhawaii on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You find my nincompoopedness funny???

Random trade rumor generator…hmmm.

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 20, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

I’m on the yes side of maybe. I love watching Barbosa and the simple fact that he gives the Lakers fits, intrigues the hater in me.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 20, 2008 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No,

Not only do I think Martell’s going to end up being VERY good, but LB is simply not the right point for this team. I like him as a player, and he may grow into the right type of guard we need, but right now, he’s all offense. Yea, playing with Nash must make it look worse, but….. I know that article said he’s working on D, but hey, why waste potential (there’s more upside than down on Webster) on someone that doesn’t really fit. I like it if it gets Jack out of town, and that wouldn’t be such a bad place for him (I like Jack as a person a lot, so I don’t want him going to NY or something). His bubble butt would compensate somewhat for Nash’s no butt.

That Outlaw for Minny’s #3 sounds INTERSTING. I love Outlaw too, but for the #3, I could probably let him go. Probably….. I’m so glad I don’t have to make that decision.

Can’t we keep both Outlaw and Webster.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Jun 20, 2008 8:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Where'd you hear that?

Outlaw for #3? Get it done…...

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 20, 2008 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Blazers don't need the #3 pick

They don’t want Mayo, so why trade up that high? You’re giving up a lot for a pick you’re not going to use for max value.

by raoulduke on Jun 20, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if we then sent OJ Mayo to NJ for Harris?

Throw in Channing Frye and Raef for salary purposes.

This would maximize the trade value, get us an outstanding PG, and clear up all the PT needed for Oden/LMA/Joel, and allow us to keep McBob as backup PF.

Wherever you go, there you are.

by Majikj0n on Jun 20, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ew.

McBob as backup? The guy who couldn’t cut it in that other league?

No freaking way. I’m not saying it’s incredibly bad, but I’d rather that guy who plays with us every summer league who does well. He’s strong in the post and would be a great backup.

I think his last name was Z something? I don’t remember but I do remember him doing extremely well and as a back-up I think he’d be fantastic.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I keep seeing hamilton

so maybe he has letters like that in his name.

a cookie for the person who knows who the heck i’m talking about.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zendon Hamilton, I believe

Where does he play besides summer league anyway?

by poster on Jun 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is the man!!!

I am mentally sending you cookies.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zendon Hamilton

Yeah, he’s decent.

Not saying McBob is the greatest answer at backup PF, but that’s a pretty easy position to find a decent role-player to fill on the free-agent market.

Wherever you go, there you are.

by Majikj0n on Jun 20, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the way our team is composed right now

he’d now be an excellent fit for us.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

What else is in the trade, I haven’t seen the rumor. I just read where Hobobob said it was Travis for the #3. Even if it’s Travis and the #13 for the #3, that’s a great deal and there’s no reason not to make it. Mayo (or whoever) is highly valuable.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 20, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you'll have mayo

or Beasely.

Beasely becomes our SF answer or Mayo creates our three guard rotation and adds defense.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very interesting

What’s most interesting about this is that it reveals what Pritchard is thinking. This report does not appear to be a pure speculation nor a smoke screen, though we do not know how serious the talks were nor who didn’t like the deal (Kerr or Pritchard). Nontheless, I think we can infer that Pritchard thinks that a combo guard can play next to Roy and he is willing to trade for a veteran.

by PoliSam on Jun 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

No.

Barbosa may pretty good on the offensive end, but I hear he plays defense like Sergio, which is aboiut one step up from Zack Randolph. And hey, we already have Sergio, might as well use him instead.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 20, 2008 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Outlaw + #13 for #3 and filler

Get it done. Mayo would be awsome for this team. Great defender that will attack the rim on offense. If we could get Mayo or Westbrook out of this draft, I would do it in a heart beat.

by usmcr3049 on Jun 20, 2008 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes Yes Yes

and yes. That’s a great deal if it could be done.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 20, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

aCK!!!! OKay, copying and pasting AGAIN

It really belongs here anyway.

Barbosa is a guard and we already have Rudy and Roy.
Still, Barbosa has shown that he can come off the bench and has excellent skills. That makes a STRONG three guard rotation and Barbosa is in our window and I don’t believe he’s expensive for the talent.

At the SF position this means that Outlaw will be running it or James, and I’m not sure either is really starter material. Outlaw is EXCELLENT off the bench, but a starter with major minutes? His B-ball IQ can be dangerous with a lot of minutes.

I also see outlaw as a good PF/SF filler so that talent gets some good minutes. This means we keep Frye and Pryz and they only see about 10-15 minutes a game. I think Pryz would be okay, and maybe Frye, but Frye is better than that and that could become an issue.

To sum it up:

Outlaw is a weak starter.
Creates a KILLER guard situation
Makes the blazers weaker on defense. (outlaw starter as webster is a better defender)
Makes the blazers stronger on offense.
Eliminates Sergio

I like it but I’d rather keep Webster. I think his talent set better fills our needs and I do believe he’ll get better. Webster has had some attitude adjustment (doesn’t smile and wants to be a star) and I’d take that into consideration moving forward. It’s very possible that he needs to go and hence why he’s on the block. In that case I like what I get with him and I do it.

On the Suns end:

They’re looking to make the run now… I think it’s a DUMB idea, but jack and webster do help strengthen the team on defense and Jack will very likely thrive under Porter. It’ll slow the pace of the game down and I suspect that’ll be good for Jack.

You know… I think this trade is probably the best trade that I’ve heard so far out of all the rumors. The best as in most likely.

Okay, so I’ve done some reading since I made that comment back in the jersey post.

My summary is now now “Yes do it, but have a second move available to make at SF that excels at defense, and have the suns include a future first rounder”.

Barbosa brings the ball up. Roy distributes and runs the game. Barbosa and Rudy eliminate three point issues. We need to eliminate our defense issue and the area to do that is SF for perimeter defense.

Unfortunately this move means no Alexander which I think could end up being an EXCELLENT fit at SF for us, particularly with players who hit the three, webster gone, and his hardwork/desire to learn. If we could somehow get him AND do this trade, I’d be all over it.

Jones could fill in while Alexander developed and in three years Alexander would be our clear cut answer with outlaw back filling SF and PF.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Alexander will be gone at #6 to Milwaukee.

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 20, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

curses

Maybe a trade with Frye for the number 6?

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the #13 and Frye and something else

for the #6 right? Because if it’s just Frye for the #6 we might as well trade Jack for the #1.

by begottenson on Jun 20, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's do that then. That sounds better.

"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez

by bfan on Jun 20, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why do that...

...when we can just send Von Wafer to Cleveland for Lebron, and pick #55 to New Orleans for CP3?

Wherever you go, there you are.

by Majikj0n on Jun 20, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Milwaukee trades with New York to draft Alexander at #6?

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 20, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just being a smart aleck.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 20, 2008 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you got me! Blasted facts! Fine, gone to Milwaukee wherever they pick!

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 20, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

leaning towards yes

is there any possibility in getting the #15 back if we send JJ and Martell, then we could take Brandon Rush and have him and rudy be 2-3 and brandon and leandro be 1-2’s super combo guards

what small forwards who are good defenders would be available, because i have a problem with travis outlaw starting because of his one man offensive style and frequently absent defense

by blackandwite323 on Jun 20, 2008 10:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That's my main issue with it

agreed.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm ok with James Jones starting.

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 20, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones is a keeper.

by begottenson on Jun 20, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is the only way I would think of doing it.

We go:

Webster
Jack
13th

for

Barbosa
15th=Rush

That I would sign on for.

Barbosa
Roy
Rush
LMA
Oden

and

Blake
Rudy
TO
Frye
Pryz

with minutes for Jones and Sergio

by SpyderRyder on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would sign for that as well.

Except you must flip Rush and TO. Rush won’t start as a rookie.

"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez

by bfan on Jun 20, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but I want TO coming off the bench

he would be the D stopper.

by SpyderRyder on Jun 21, 2008 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I posted this response in another thread:

This deal doesn’t work because of Barbosa’s BYC. It can work AFTER July 1st, depending on how much the #13 makes. Then Portland would be drafting for Phoenix at 13, which is certainly possible.

Bright Sid eof the Suns says:
“LB to Portland for Martell Webster and the #13 pick. This would give the Suns another wing player/shooter and certainly a lot of youth w/ 21 y/o Webster, 2 1st round picks along w/ DJ and Tucker. I don’t think I like this deal b/c it doesn’t address our biggest needs (center and pg) and makes the team even younger.”

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 20, 2008 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

did you just say

our biggest need was center???

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it says...

...that Phoenix’s biggest need was center. He quotes Bright Side of the Sun.

by poster on Jun 20, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's right, thanks!

Note that the quote doesn’t include Jack though.

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 20, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How is Barbosa any better than Ben Gordon?

If you are going with a “shooting/scoring” PG, then why not make a play for Ben Gordon. He’s a better 3-pt shooter, is younger and fits into our “core players” age group better.

Plus, Gordon should be available with the Bulls most likely drafting Derrick Rose.

Personally, I would not trade Martell for Barbosa. I don’t think we gain enough in this trade to make it worthwhile.

However, the other rumor about Webster, Outlaw, and # 13 pick for the #3 pick to land potentially a “Falling” Beasily, I would do in a minute!!!

by RIP CITY on Jun 20, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Gordon

He wants way more money than Barbosa (I’m sure he wants a lot, but he doesn’t get a lot). Also, if Chi drafts Rose, I doubt they trade Gordon, but maybe. I think Hinrich is more likely to be gone, considering he’s the point guard and already has a contract in place. I don’t think they’ll get rid of both of them.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 20, 2008 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great....

A gun slinger who plays no defense and can’t run an offense. I’m sure Nate would love that.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Jun 20, 2008 10:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ben Gordon

is a streaky scrub with a bad disposition.

Hubie Brown is my Idol.

by BigCelPhone on Jun 20, 2008 10:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Probably not going down

If history tells us anything, the fact that we are hearing so much about this probably means it isn’t happening. It was likely discussed, but in the end one side (or both), has called it off or tabled it.

Likely then either organization leaked the reported deal to the press to drum up further trade interest from other teams and/or to guage fan and critic reaction to the potential deal.

That said, I haven’t watched enough Barbosa to intellignetly evaluate the deal. My initial concern is that it would appear your 3-guard rotation become Roy, LB, and Rudy, with Blake getting 10-15 minutes per game. I’d be concerned about both defense (if what I hear about LB is true) and ball-handling/distribution in that lineup.

I don’t think giving up Jack, Martel, and the pick is too high a price to pay for someone of Barbosa’s talent - we really do need to consolidate - but I’m just not sure he’s the right guy to bring in.

by douglast on Jun 20, 2008 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree 100%

The trade probably isn’t happening.

A couple of things to add: note which paper broke the story, an Arizona paper. We know Pritchard likes to keep things quiet, so the one doing the leaking here is Kerr/Suns. Now, I don’t know if that means the Suns liked or didn’t like the deal. Maybe Kerr wants to send a message to other GMs that Webster and the 13th isn’t good enough for Barbosa? Maybe not. The Suns have been quite open about being willing to trade Barbosa, so tmaybe they just want to show folks he’s a valued commodity. It’s possible that Pritchard wasn’t all that serious and was simply talking shop, which we know he loves to do.

by PoliSam on Jun 20, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Forget How Barbosa is Used.

I suspect that the knock on Barbosa’s point guard skills could have a lot to do with the way Phoenix uses him given Nash. Let’s face it. If you’re playing behind or next to a true PG like Nash, no one’s going to give you the ball to play point. In that sense, you’re forced to play the off guard position most of the time you’re in the game. Nash simply dominates the ball – as he should.

by Eben Calder on Jun 20, 2008 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent point

GO says " Sir, you fornicated vertically…observe the consequences!

by 92wastheyear on Jun 20, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's also due to...

When Nash was out a few games, Barbosa assumed the starting PG role and wasn’t a great distributor. Maybe he’d be better with time, but we’d be taking a gamble. So if we do it, I’ll go with Myemic’s idea that Roy seems likely to become the ballhandler.

James Jones for the block

by RecordTOs on Jun 20, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade those three pieces for anything above-average or better

Two ‘maybes’ and a ‘no’ for a ‘yes’?

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Its a maybe for me

At first glance, I believe this would push Roy over to the full time point guard. Pheonix signed Marcus Banks as a backup pg because they didnt think Barbosa was capable running the team with Nash on the bench, or possibly because they saw him as 2 guard. In any case, he never really got point guard duties with the suns. If KP does get him, I think it will be because they want Roy at the point. I I really like Barbosa as a player, I am just not convinced he is a great fit on this team. But if KP signs off I will be jacked, Barbosa is a hell of a player and there is no doubt that he would make us better if he fits in…

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jun 20, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, but no thanks.

I have never seen Barbosa pass the ball in my life. I don’t get this deal… People are suckers for scoring, and LB can score, but he takes a ton of shots and he is streaky as all get out. Martell is a solid defender, a soon-to-be great scorer, and a pretty good rebounder as well. Barbosa is the definition of one-dimensional. Plus our pick AND our best free throw shooter? No.

by koyote on Jun 20, 2008 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Who gets the best player out of this deal?

Let’s look at it:

Phoenix:
Martell
#13
and probably Sergio or Jack

Blazers:
Barbosa

There is no way you can convince me that any player we would be giving up is on the same level as Barbosa. Plus, Barbosa gives us another good 3 point shooter, someone who will take Oden blocks the other way for easy baskets, speed and athleticism. I think defensively he could be good with Oden and Aldridge behind him.

In this scenario, unless we are giving up Oden, Roy or Aldridge, we are getting the best player. For that reason, and the fact that Barbosa can play both guard positions, we should do this trade.

by JasonT on Jun 20, 2008 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No way

it doesnt answer any of our problems, and opens more up.
There is no way it happens.
And… having a good defensive big man doesnt mean that you have great defense. Just look at Denver and all defensive center Marcus Camby.

by raging WebTed on Jun 20, 2008 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Great Trade

I don’t understand how some people and, what seems to be the majority of Bedge, could be against this trade. If this trade were to ACTUALLY go down, then it would indeed be a Pritchslap to one Steve Kerr.

I keep hearing about Martell’s potential, and his unknown ceiling, which I agree is probably pretty high. What I don’t get is why anyone would be interested in that “what if?”, Martell is a great player, but it’s not about potential anymore. It’s about WINNING. Barbosa is a winner, and he is a veteran, he knows what it’s like to go deep in the playoffs. Is he a good defender? No. But is Mike D’Antoni a good defensive coach? Heck no. Is Nate McMillan a good defensive coach? Heck yes! That is why both coaches are on the US Basketball Coaching squad. D’Antoni for Offense, McMillan for Defense.

Not doing the trade doesn’t hurt us either, as Webster is still a great player to have. I just think Barbosa’s experience, and skillset would be perfect. Roy get’s to play more point, and Blake is a tremendous back up.

DO IT

Trail Blazers are really cool

by Outlaw is Rejector on Jun 20, 2008 11:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What about his playoff play?

Yeah, his TEAM has gone deep in the playoffs, and he has been a playoff no-show that last few years. He’s been criticized for how much he disappears in big games, especially in the playoffs. He’s been there, but being there isn’t that great if he didn’t do anything when he was there.

Plus, he can barely speak English, he can’t even tell everyone what it was like playing so poorly in the playoffs.

Even if D’Antoni is the worst defensive coach in the world, someone with Barbosa’s physical talents should be a better defender. Nate McMillan has coached Travis Outlaw for a few years now, and Travis is still a God-awful defender. Some guys just can’t do it, and Barbosa, by all reports, is one of them.

I said it before, but I really think Barbosa is just PHX’s Travis Outlaw. All offense, horrible defense, spectacular plays with questional judgement when they do them, and low BBIQ. In a scoring Forward, we can get away with it. In a guy who is supposed to be a PG alongside Roy? That would be horrible.

And if we want him as a backup scorer to go along with Outlaw, then what is Rudy? Is our entire back up unit just guys who don’t defend and throw up shots?

Barbosa is young, he could get better. So could Outlaw. I just think Barbosa’s NEGATIVES are the exact areas we need to get stronger in at the PG spot: defense and BBIQ. And he would HAVE to play a PG-type role with Roy and Rudy…

And since he can’t defend PGs anyways, all it solves is our 3 point shooting problem that doesn’t exist.

I liked Barbosa more before he stopped improving.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 21, 2008 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dave and Gavin

Made some great points abou the current state of the NBA tonight on the Radio Show. Dwayne Wade is not a point guard, but you know he controls the flow of the ball on the court. We are so lucky to have this type of player in Roy.

I completely understand your opinion, I just think this is a win/win. There is no doubt an unspoken war between Outlaw and Webster here on Blazers Edge, and unfortunately I doubt both will be here by next season. Obviously I would lose my marbles if Outlaw was gone, but I really am not worried, and feel he is there for at least another year.

Webster has value, and a Barbosa trade does not affect our salary cap. That is HUGE for us. Barbosa is at this point a better shooter than Martell, but a major downgrade in defense, and I admit that scares the crap out of me. But I don’t think it’s fair to completely disregard his defensive skills until he has been taught by a defensive coach.

I agree with you that Barbosa is not really a sure thing, and he may just be a system player, but I think we are ready to take a ‘risk’..It works well for Rudy, IMO, he will get mre minutes this way with Brandon shifting over to PG more often. The big victim seems to be Blake, he will definately lose minutes.

Also if this trade does go dow, the I would expect to see a Jack for SF trade, not sure what team though. I hope this was coheirant.

Trail Blazers are really cool

by Outlaw is Rejector on Jun 21, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

At the PG spot

I think his negatives, and the risk that he’d actually be capable of improving on them, are a lot higher and hurt us a lot more than having those problems in a wing player.

We’ll be expecting Barbosa to dribble the ball up the court, help Roy get us into the offense, and play intelligent STARTERS basketball. He has never done these things and it has actually been a noted knock on his game.

I agree with a lot of what you say; I just don’t think a risk of this nature at the PG spot, and hoping Barbosa changes his very nature as a player, is very wise or realistic. We shouldn’t expect Travis Outlaw to suddenly be able to teach the Princeton offense and also become a better defender, and I find him extremely similar to Barbosa. There are some things that aren’t “coached”, such as just staying with the enemy on defense. Moving slow laterally and never learning where you’re supposed to rotate on defense doesn’t necessarily get better with a defensive coach either. I can’t imagine D’Antoni and his assistants didn’t harp on Barbosa forgetting his rotations; Barbosa just couldn’t do it.

If Barbosa changed and showed commitment in those areas, like the Arizona paper said, it could maybe work. I dunno though… gotta see it first. Everyone is working on everything in the summer.

He shot the same percentage as Martell from three point land, is not a PG, can’t defend PGs, isn’t a smart player from his previous play, disappears in the playoffs, and will be forced to play a position near and dear to Nate’s heart. Man, it just seems like it hurts way more than it helps.

I am totally fine FORCING Nate to adjust his demands in a PG if that player is special enough in other ways, but Barbosa’s problems are already our problems and just make ‘em worse. Like I said, his negatives are liveable in a backup wing like Outlaw, but really noticeable in a starting lineup.

Roy will be our main playmaker, but we need someone aside from him to get the team into it’s offense. He can’t be all alone because the defense will certainly key even MORE on him, knowing they can risk the added pressure because no one else can get the team going. Wade plays with a PG, always, for this reason. And if we bring Barbosa off the bench and start Blake, we got 2 or 3 guys that cannibalize each other’s games coming off the bench together.

You’re always coherent, Outlaw is Rejector, you know I like you. I get what you’re saying, and it’s a very interesting risk, and I could get behind it if KP does it. I just don’t see what Barbosa gives us that we need. We got scoring, shooting, we need PG defense and PG basketball intelligence.

If we got him cheap, sure, why not. Maybe Martell and the #13 is cheap to some, but how it affects our rotation and lineup seems really pricey to me for not much added benefit.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 21, 2008 3:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would not do this trade

if the Suns don’t give us their draft pick. Who is to say that the Webman won’t become a better player than Barbosa? I would only offer Jack and the 13th for Barbosa. Forget his numbers and he is still a BENCH player. Sure he has good numbers but the Webman is still very young and HIS numbers have been pretty decent. I like Barbosa but I wouldn’t give Martell up and Jack AND the 13th for a BENCH PLAYER!

by VinnyB on Jun 21, 2008 5:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs