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What's most important to you in a PG?

There are quite a few schools of thought. Some say its passing ability, some say its defense, some say size, others still say its steadiness. What do YOU think is most important?

Star-divide

The reason I ask this is because Augustin worked out for us today and by all accounts was dynamic passing the ball, extremely quick on defense and with the ball, shot fairly well and controlled the floor. However he is a small guard. Personally I fail to see the argument of "I don't like small guards" as I have always believed you should take the better player rather than the taller one. That kind of thinking gets people to draft 7 foot centers with no skill instead of 6'9' PF/C who can actually play the game. With that in mind, what do you think are the most important factors in who we might draft to play PG next year (yes I know we might draft *shudder* Alexander)

Ratings on: Speed, Defense, Shooting Ability, Passing Ability, Athleticism, Height, Ballhandling Ability, Court Awareness, (All are good kids, although Gordon DID play for Kelvin Cheater Sampson)

Westbrook: Quick, Good Defense, Average shooter, Average Passer, Athletic, Average Height, Average Ballhandling, Good Court Awareness

Bayless (perhaps): Quick, Good Defense, Excellent Shooter, Average Passer, Athletic, Average Height, Excellent Ballhandling, Average Court Awareness

Augustin: Fast, Average Defense, Excellent Shooter, Great Passer, Average Athletic, Shorter Height, Excellent Ballhandling, Excellent Court Awareness

Rose (I wish): Fast, Good Defense, Average Shooter, Great Passer, Athletic, Taller Height, Excellent Ballhandling, Excellent Court Awareness

Gordon: Quick, Average Defense, Excellent Shooter, Average Passer, Athletic, Taller Height, Excellent Ballhandling, Average Court Awareness

These of course are just MY perceptions based on the copius amount of college basketball I watched this year. Am I missing anything?

So what do YOU care about most? Will it sway your choice if you were leaining in one way or another

Comment 45 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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In fairness

I would agree with you, but we have discussed it a lot on this site and while that has slightly skewed his numbers above (not a true PG, but more of a combo guard) I didnt want to leave him off the list, hence why I remembered to put him on at the end. He is much more of a scorer (more akin to Bayless) than the others

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 18, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel like i need to end this once and for all...

At pg, we need a playmaker (anybody who says otherwise is crazy). Court vision is the number onetrait of any legit pg….So basically, we need a guy who pushes the tempo, runs the break, and gets everybody involved. Also, he needs to be able to play really tough perimeter D..enough stay enough in front of CP3 and push him to where help is…he needs to create turnovers that lead to transition buckets….he needs to be able to knock down open threes, and when people close out he needs to go to the hoop..he needs court saavy…..also, he needs to be able to score 20ppg if nobody double teams him..

let see…anything else?....he needs to get along with Brandon…and also feel comfortable throwing the lob to Lamarcus and greg..It’d be nice if he was tough enough to guard shooting guards…

O yea…..Most importantly….He needs to be a leader. People need to look to him, and trust that he will make the right decision with the ball…..

Roy is great, but we need somebody who brings that element of quickness to the game…ala CP3.

by BroyTheTruth on Jun 26, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is a need-based answer...

as in, what does “X” team need.

However, I’m not buying Augustin because he is small. I hear your argument about a 7’ stiff versus a 6’9” hustler, but with pg’s, size DOES matter. That’s not to say let’s get a 6’2” stiff, but if we can get someone who has comparable skills that is 3” taller, why wouldn’t we?

The problem with being too short in the league is that guys can shoot over you or post you up effectively, and then you end up getting swatted or having more difficult shots.

I don’t think another small point guard is in our best interests… the dude listed at 5’ 10”!!! That’s 5 feet 10 inches!!!

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 18, 2008 5:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Is that the guy from American Gladiators?

How long of a wingspan would it take for a 5’ 10” guy to compensate for his size deficiency?

He’d have to have gorilla arms and kangaroo leaps.

I still think he doesn’t get clean looks with his head propped up at the 5’ 2” neckline, and on the opposite end guys are looking over him.

It’s like quarterbacks in football americano… tall QB’s can see over the Offensive Line, and are therefore prone to have a better view of the field of play, whereas short QB’s get their views of Linebackers screened by the line. Are all short ones bad? No, some are very talented. But you’d prefer to have a tall one.

We don't NEED the draft. -Mortimer 6/18

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 18, 2008 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, he's the X-Men's Angel

Looks like he’s been hitting the weights pretty hard since X3… Bet he’d win the dunk contest, anyway.

"I don't trust lawyers." --David Stern

by MiledAnimal on Jun 18, 2008 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I get your argument

But who has comparable skills that is taller? I mean Rose does, but we arent getting him. I dont think Augustin and Westbrook have the same skillset. Hence what are you looking for in a guard?
While I agree with it being more difficult to be smaller, if your good enough it doesnt make a huge difference. I do believe Isaiah Thomas (the player not the GM, it just CANT be the same guy, can it?) was 5’10”. He did alright

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 18, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

so, I have to make a concession here

From what Gavin Dawson was saying on The BFT tonight, although Augustin is 5’ 10”, he’s got long arms and a short neck… essentially meaning he plays like a 6’ 1” guy.

What about Kopponen? Do we know anything about this guy, other than he’s from Finland and plays Euro’ball?

We don't NEED the draft. -Mortimer 6/18

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 19, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

what matters in a PG

kindness. compassion. respect for everyone. someone like Mean Joe Greene.

If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?

by bow4meow on Jun 18, 2008 6:02 PM PDT reply actions  

you forgot

love of poetry, fishing skills, and an excellent gumby fade haircut.
Like Penny Hardaway

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 18, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

lest you suggest just being humblest

I cant list every quality thats important…. least of which being physically gifted. May the force be with you Rasta.

If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?

by bow4meow on Jun 18, 2008 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I look for ...

a pert figure, a quirky smile, and a can’t-miss fashion sense.

by CatMan2 on Jun 19, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

We do not need a "P" G we need the best G avalible

After just watching KP on 1080, when asked if Roy could run the PG full time KP stated that the NBA has changed and that you put the ball in the hands of your best playmaker. He straight up asked Issac if Wade was a PG and he replied, no.

He then went on to say that anybody that plays off Roy in the 4th will have to be able to spot up and hit the 3 and if someone closes out on them, they have the ability to drive to the hoop. Now this sounds like one of the combo Gs in this draft would be phenomenal. Here are some more articles to back up how the NBA is changingin regards to the PG position.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/06/17/draft.preview0623/?eref=sircrc
Although that speaks highly of Westbrook, Gordon is mentioned as well as part of the "new" point guard.

The SI article illustrates my point that with a playmaking SGs ala K*be, Johnson, McGrady or Roy,

"Your point guard doesn’t have to be the only playmaker on the floor. Guards who aren’t thought of as typical point guards can be successful now because they aren’t called upon to create shots for the other four guys the way they used to be."

Lastly:

http://ballhype.com/story/ballad_for_the_combo_guard/

and

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-valuable-is-a-helping-hand-in-hoops-342/

If we can grab Westy or Gordon we would be set. There are some rumors that Cha is loving Westy and could take him @ 9 so he is looking like a top 10 selection. That would push Gordon down us, possibly at 13, probably not but he may be a lot cheaper.

So the fact that he is not a PG is pretty much pointless as KP himself said to day that it would be nice to have a pass first PG, but “IT IS NOT NESSASARY TO WIN THE BIG GAME.” Now that statement right there precludes Augustin IMO, he is the “truest” of all the Gs listed above and we do not need a “true” PG and he is a small G who will not be able todefend bigger PGs such as Williams.

by SpyderRyder on Jun 18, 2008 6:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree

And I like that Pritchard is thinking this way. I have no idea what is going to happen in the back court. It seems that the Blazers have a lot of offensive flexibility because of Roy… I’d still like to see better defense, which I think requires making changes to the roster, but I could be wrong.

by PoliSam on Jun 18, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty much what we've been saying

Roy’s running mate needs to be able to hit an open jumper and defend opposing PGs. (If he can also run a fast break that would be much appreciated…) I like a player like Harris or Westbrook in this role

The other factor to keep in mind is Nate McMillan. Based on his Jack-love he may have a different idea of what qualities make an ideal point guard than KP? I expect he’d not want to keep seeing Augustin getting posted up and have to send double-teams over to help out his undersized point guard.

Here’s hoping KP deals Jack and drafts the kind of PG he wants, then Nate will have to adjust to the roster dynamics

by two4larue on Jun 19, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gordon

I still don’t buy that he can’t play the point. He was a great passer in HS. Just because he wasn’t used that way in college, doesn’t mean he can’t still play the point. I get tired of hearing all this pure point talk. There are very few pure points in the league. Gordon’s good enough to play point in this league.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 18, 2008 7:22 PM PDT reply actions  

I would agree

But then again I would prefer a pass first guard who can shoot the rock. But he and Roy on the perimeter would be one HELL of a combination

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 18, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

a great passer in HS

like Sebastion Telfair, right?

If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?

by bow4meow on Jun 18, 2008 7:56 PM PDT reply actions  

wasnt he a PG

seems that would mean he distributed the rock.. any decent highlite I saw of Telfair included the fabulous pass…. amongst lessers

If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?

by bow4meow on Jun 18, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Except Gordon isn’t a midget. Big difference there once you hit the NBA. Besides, Telfair’s problem wasn’t his passing….....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 19, 2008 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

It IS short in the NBA

Besides, everybody knows that Spud Webb was the real deal Tiny Baller.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 19, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guard this

Outside shot.
Quick to the basket and can finish.
Can bring the ball up against pressure.
Can run the pick and roll.
Makes other players better.
Quick lateral movement.
Takes care of the ball.

Toro feces ego id.

by Kampeska on Jun 18, 2008 7:57 PM PDT reply actions  

EXTENSION OF THE COACH!!!!!!!!!!!

A floor general…the coaches image of how a team should be run…a true point manages the game the way the coach would if he was between the lines!

"Rudy Fernández ha confirmado hoy que la próxima temporada jugará en el Portland Trail Blazers"

by $chonzarelli on Jun 18, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Good call

However Nate thinks he has that in Jack. So….
Maybe we should try something different

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 19, 2008 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe he does have that in Jack.

I’m really interested in seeing how Jack does with Oden in the middle. Of course, after looking at every other point guard out there, Jack is the only one who does everything we want a point guard to do (and is obtainable). That’s why I joined his fanclub.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 19, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

A great leaper who slams the ball into the hoop baby!

Oh wait, I just watched too many YouTube mix tapes of Rose (and Alexander).

In general I would say a good PG needs to be quick, a good ball-handler (with either hand), have great court vision + basketball IQ which enables him to become a good passer, have a reliable outside shot and free-throw, and not be a defensive liability. And his style needs to fit the team or the team needs to be somewhat adapted to him.

You can still become great if you have flaws in one or two things but are really strong in others. For example Nash isn’t a great defender (by the way CP3 also isn’t despite his aggressive stealing), Kidd not a great outside shooter, but they excel in other categories.

Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Jun 19, 2008 12:25 AM PDT reply actions  

My favorite attribute in a PG

Is that they are named Devin Harris.

On the real real, real real tip, I favor defense and shooting. I’d hope ballhandling is already a given, though I know there are various levels of goodness there. Steve Blake gives us shooting, and EFFORT on defense, but he just isn’t athletic enough. I wouldn’t say he is a master ballhandler in the And-1 style, but he rarely if ever gets the ball outright stolen from him. That’s all I want.

DEFENSE AND SHOOTING.

Plus, with Roy being the major playmaker, the PG has to be able to play off the ball and hit a shot and be able to bring the ball up the court. Basically, everything Steve Blake does already except knows when to shoot and when to pass more (Blake loves to not shoot when he should) and is athletic enough to guard PGs. A secondary playmaker would be nice.

Everything we want this season; running, scoring, WINNING; all stems from defense. We want to do our best to keep Oden on the floor, and the best way to not do that is to have a bad defender at our PG spot. We want stops so we can rebound and get out in the open lanes. A guy who can actually handle that would be nice as well.

Roy does so many PG things and always will, that we can have a guy who isn’t perfect at everything start alongside him. He doesn’t have to be a Steve Nash level playmaker, just defense, shooting, and smarts.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 19, 2008 4:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Thoughts

It’s a team game, and no team has the perfect player at every position. In the future, Portland will be long, tall and tough around the basket, and able to help out the guards whenever someone tries to go to the hoop. Further, in addition to Roy at 6’6”, if Outlaw plays at SF, where he’ll have to play going forward unless we retool, that put’s another 6’9” body on the floor at SF. What some ignore about Augustin is the fact that he’s an accomplished shooter, and superb at creating his own shot – precisely because he’s one of the best ballhandlers, is a solid 3 pt shooter, and is superb at drawing contact and dishing it off. In this context, his offensive skills are as or more polished than most of the guards mentioned above. Granted, he’s short. but as people found out at the combines, his reach is the same as several of the guards mentioned above. In my mind, the issue is not is Augustin too short, the issue is, in the context of an entire team whose height is greater than the ones they are playing, do his other attributes offset his height, and does he make the entire team better. I think they do. He certainly did that in Texas, even without Durant. However, it seems almost certain that for KP to get any of these guards, that he’ll have to move up. The key increasingly seems to be NY. They are rumored to be debating Lopez, Gallinari, and Augustin at #6. If they go for Augustin, then all six of these guards may be gone by 8 or 9. The problem, as a result, will be getting high enough to get the player targeted. It seems that Mayo, Bayless and Rose will be gone by 5. That leaves Augustin, Westbrook and Gordon in the next 5 or so. I doubt we’ll get into the top 5, so then the issue will be, if you can get into the second 5, would you be happy with anyone of the three likely to be around? And then, will you be happy with what we’d have to give up to get there. I’ll guarantee you that you’ll have to give up a player(s) – not just those 3 #2 draft picks. The only reason a team will deal is if they can get two good players as opposed to one slightly better. And it’s not likely that will be Sergio or Jones. It will have to be, at a minimum, Jack/Outlaw/Webster/Frye. And of the three, Jack is probably not as attractive.

by Eben Calder on Jun 19, 2008 6:43 AM PDT reply actions  

I say take the best G

regardless of height. Which I am hoping Pritchard does. I dont have a preference either way, but from watching them in college, I have a pretty good idea of what they each do well

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 19, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree with your Westbrook ratings

He’s bigger than rose, isn’t he?
and his defense should be grade as excellent.
Also, if you have gordon on the list you should put Mayo. He’s more of a PG than Gordon.

by Falcao on Jun 19, 2008 7:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Westbrook is 6'2

6’3” with shoes. Rose is a solid 6’4”. I wouldn’t say Rose plays excellent defense.
As far as defense, I think Westbrook is a very good defender. I used average and good to describe them. Collison was the best defender on UCLA. I only stated that when it comes to defense, Gordon and Augustin arent nearly the defenders of the other 3.
I will put Mayo in the following comment.

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 19, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rose

He was measured at 6’1” at the pre draft camp.

At Memphis, he was listed as 6’4”.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 19, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

And here's the link so all can see

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2008&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=

Derrick Rose is as short as you say, without shoes. He is tiny.

We should all bookmark that link, because it is a perfect resource to go to when we debate size and length and all that stuff.

Rose is an inch shorter, but had a longer wingspan and bigger vertical. They’re both elite athletes.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jun 19, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't matter if Rose is only 6'1" and Augstin is only 5'10"

because apparently everyone in the NBA is two inches shorter than their listed height. If this guy can make it in the NBA, height is irrelevant.

"I don't trust lawyers." --David Stern

by MiledAnimal on Jun 19, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Augustine

They sure hyped him in the O today….....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 19, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

UPDATE

OJ Mayo (as Falcao pointed out, if I have Gordon, I should have Mayo)

Quick, Good Defense, Excellent Shooter, Average Passer, Athletic, Taller Height, Average Ballhandling, Average Court Awareness

by RememberRastaMonsta! on Jun 19, 2008 9:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Repost (felt its important): I feel like i need to end this once and for all...

At pg, we need a playmaker (anybody who says otherwise is crazy). Court vision is the number onetrait of any legit pg….So basically, we need a guy who pushes the tempo, runs the break, and gets everybody involved. Also, he needs to be able to play really tough perimeter D..enough stay enough in front of CP3 and push him to where help is…he needs to create turnovers that lead to transition buckets….he needs to be able to knock down open threes, and when people close out he needs to go to the hoop..he needs court saavy…..also, he needs to be able to score 20ppg if nobody double teams him..

let see…anything else?....he needs to get along with Brandon…and also feel comfortable throwing the lob to Lamarcus and greg..It’d be nice if he was tough enough to guard shooting guards…

O yea…..Most importantly….He needs to be a leader. People need to look to him, and trust that he will make the right decision with the ball…..

Roy is great, but we need somebody who brings that element of quickness to the game…ala CP3.

by BroyTheTruth on Jun 26, 2008 3:47 PM PDT reply actions  

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