Leandro Barbosa

by CBASS on Jun 17, 2008 8:47 AM PDT Comment 40 comments

Espn is reporting that the Suns are looking to get another 1st round selection and may be dangling Barbosa and/or Diaw. It sites New York at #6 and Portland at #13 as possible trading partners.

I like Barbosa for his quickness and his scoring ability, but I don't know about his defense. Watching the suns in the playoffs, he was the player that gave the Spurs the most fits. It seemed like he added a lot to the Suns while he was in the game.

He has already been in the league for a few years, and been through the preliminary struggling years that most guards go through. Barbosa would be an immediate upgrade and could fit into the starting rotation immediately. He is only 25, so it seems he would fit well into the championship curve of the Blazers.

The scouting report from espn says :

2006-07 season: Barbosa continued his impressive development by upping his scoring numbers and storming to the league's Sixth Man Award. The freakishly fast Brazilian offered a unique combination of speed and shooting ability. On the one hand, few could stop him from streaking upcourt in transition for layups, even after made baskets. But on the other hand, he hit 43.4 percent of his 3-pointers on more than five attempts a game.

Barbosa averaged 22.1 points per 40 minutes even though the Suns didn't have a lot of extra shots to spare. He ranked sixth among shooting guards in true shooting percentage and his ballhandling numbers improved sharply. Though he took shifts at the point, Barbosa's turnover ratio ranked 14th among shooting guards, a huge improvement on the previous campaign and a big reason he was entrusted with longer shifts.

Scouting report: Barbosa's speed in transition is amazing. After a made basket he'll streak up the left sideline, take a lead pass from Steve Nash, and after one dribble be laying the ball in three seconds after the other team scored. Though right-handed, he does most of his damage from the left. He loves to drive in from that side and then lay the ball up with his right hand; I'm not sure I've ever seen him take a lefty layup even though that's his preferred driving side.

Barbosa has an odd shooting motion, but when his feet are set he's extremely accurate. However, because he shoots with the ball way out in front of his body, he can get the shot off only when it's a catch-and-shoot situation or when the defense has completely fallen asleep. He'll almost never shoot a jumper off the dribble, preferring to drive all the way to the rim.

Barbosa's defense isn't nearly as far along as his offense. Although he has great quickness and anticipation, his on-ball play and halfcourt help defense leave quite a bit to be desired. He frequently bolts early to try to get layups the other way, and his lack of size makes him vulnerable to post-ups by opposing shooting guards.

2007-08 outlook: Barbosa's train appears to be on the way up, as he won't turn 25 until a month into the season. At worst, it seems he'll roughly match last season's numbers; it's possible he'll improve them quite a bit depending on the Suns' wing situation. If Grant Hill is injured again or if Barbosa improves his defense enough to take Raja Bell's job, then he'll be playing close to 40 minutes a night. If that's the case, a scoring average in the 20s is a distinct possibility.

The question is does he fit in well with the blazers and what would it cost to get him. Oh, and can he run a team from the point. He has always had Nash to do the majority of the point guard work. I'm of the opinion he is the point guard that may be available that would fit what the Blazers are looking for the most.

If we could get Barbosa for the #13 and Jack or Frye, I would do it in a second.

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for some previous discussion on this subject

look here previous discussion

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Jun 17, 2008 8:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I read that rumor this morning

and my ears perked up. Barbosa for #13 and Jack sounds great. Sign us up….....

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Jun 17, 2008 8:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This is one the crazy trades

that sound intriguing to me. He doesn’t need to be a pure point with Roy and if he can hit the set shot then we would be doing alright since LMA and the norse god will be commanding extra attention in the post. That slashing ability would also help Roy since he would then not have to do it as much. Plus I have never seen him step on the sidelines ….ever.

"My favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. Us kids would visit him in his cave. He would eat one of us from time to time. It wasn't till years later that we realized Uncle Caveman was a bear"

Jack Handy

by 92wastheyear on Jun 17, 2008 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not a good fit

IMO.

But a good talent, and when teams make a player with that kind of talent available, and they want something you have, like a draft pick, then maybe you can swing a 3 way deal or something.

Like, maybe NJ likes him enough that they could be convinced to let Harris go in a deal. We get Harris, they get Barbosa, Suns get #13 and a player, add cap filler as needed. Something like that could happen.

Of course, if KP and Nate think he’s a good fit for us, then I’m an idiot, and we’ll win multiple championships with plays being called in Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and Finnish.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jun 17, 2008 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What Blazer speaks Italian?

My money is on Channing Frye.

by WarEaglePDX on Jun 17, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gallinari

It’s all in this thread, about his agreed plot with KP to end up in Portland so he can play for the world champions:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/6/16/553116/who-s-in-and-who-s-out-of

I said so, so it must be true, although most other people don’t have as much practice at being wrong as I do.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Jun 17, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will play in the New York area

My money is on NJ. I wouldn’t even want him on the Blazers if the dropped out of the top 10. You remember Belinelli and Bargnani? Wohoo, Italian superstars that tear up the league. His real value staying in the draft is in potentially pushing players we want deeper down.

by Norsktroll on Jun 17, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And some of us have never experienced the feeling.

by timg56 on Jun 18, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where would we fit Barbosa?

He is good. He is young. He has a very reasonable contract. Unfortunately he’s not a good point guard (don’t expect more than 3 assists) though he would have the perfect size for it. So then we would be stacked with 3 great SGs and still haven’t solved the real issues. That being said, if he can be had (which I still doubt) a lot of teams will be interested. But Jack isn’t “expensive” enough, it wouldn’t even work for Jack + Frye.

Diaw? His contract is like the opposite of Barbosa, one of the 10 to 20 worst ones in the league. I don’t want to see him and his ridiculous contract anywhere near the Blazers.

by Norsktroll on Jun 17, 2008 9:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yes no maybe so

Barbosa: yes
Diaw: no
could we even make this trade work: maybe so

by kickbrass on Jun 17, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't make a trade work on the trade machine.

This is one for Tom Penn to figure out. The restriction was the combination of the blazers being over the luxury tax and Barbosa being in the first year of his new contract. It is a bunch of salery rules that I don’t really get.

There seems to be ways to make trades happen in the NBA where the restrictions are the financial aspect of the deal. (trade exceptions, and cash payments)

I’m sure a few cash payments to david stern would straighten the whole thing out. Kidding.

THE Poobah of Prognostication

by CBASS on Jun 17, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

To make this trade work

Phoenix would have to take back twice the salary of Barbosa, which won’t work with anyone except Raef, and even then they’d have to add in Grant Hill, which they wouldn’t do.

Even after July 1st when Barbosa loses the BYC, you’d have to give up Outlaw + Frye + #13 or Outlaw + Jack + #13 to make it work. That’s a pretty steep price to pay.

Phoenix has handcuffed themselves for trades – half their contracts are expiring, they want to keep most of the guys they’ve got, under contract, and they are way over the cap.

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 17, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blazerholic

Everything I think of saying you say first, and you have facts to back it up whereas I just sort of guess. Additionally, your Brandon Roy post shows you are both smarter, AND a better writer than I am (though significantly less acerbic).

I hate you and respectfully ask you no longer post here. You’re making me miserable.

by begottenson on Jun 17, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa!

I doubt I’m smarter. I just use someone else’s facts to make me look smarter.

As for writing, I do that professionally. In two different jobs no less. Plus I once won an essay contest in the 8th grade. That’s gotta count for something.

However, if I say what your thinking before you say it, and I’m using facts, it just means I had to look something up that you already intuitively knew. So who’s really smarter? Not me…

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 17, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless it got you laid, winning any contest in the 8th grade

gets you nothing, except perhaps the admiration of your parents.

by timg56 on Jun 18, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I won a LP. AC-DC "Back in Black".

Blazermania - It's not just for die-hards anymore.

by Blazerholic on Jun 18, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is the best prize

ever!!

"My favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. Us kids would visit him in his cave. He would eat one of us from time to time. It wasn't till years later that we realized Uncle Caveman was a bear"

Jack Handy

by 92wastheyear on Jun 18, 2008 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I withdraw my statement.

I once won an album on a radio station call-in contest. They never sent it.

All those unexplained disappearences of DJ’s – there’s a reason for it.

by timg56 on Jun 19, 2008 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's this one guy

Bobby Fischer, and he won this contest in 8th grade called something like the U.S. Chess Championship, and it got him this title of youngest-ever International Master and the acclaim of chest grandmasters across the world or something.

Just sayin’. :)

by BlazersOrBust on Jun 18, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But was he any good at Tic Tac Toe?

I’m undefeated.

Of course, I’ve also never won.

by timg56 on Jun 19, 2008 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good now J. Jack can finish what Brian Skinner started

by tweener on Jun 17, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If

We could do a sign and trade with Wafter and maybe throw in a late 2nd rounder, I’d do it. I’m hesitant though.

"lowest common denominator - every time I think you hit rock bottom you sink it deeper into the shale" -- bow4meow

by tominhawaii on Jun 17, 2008 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Barbosa is Jack with speed

Barbosa would give you 18-20 points a game and 5 assists. Other than that, he plays Ole (I’m in Mexico and still don’t know how to make the mark above the “e”) defense and absolutely crumples under pressure. Great 3 point shooter, poor BBIQ, good attitude (would fit well in the Blazer culture), can handle the ball.

Would actually be a decent deal for both teams (Barbosa for Jack and #13).

by BrewDude on Jun 17, 2008 9:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Leandro...

Barbosa fits into that hypothetical place where Roy plays point guard and defends the shooting guard while his backcourt mate plays shooting guard but defends the point.

Fellow members: Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, Jarrett Jack (IMO), and Allen Iverson.

I would say that Barbosa is an upgrade over Jarrett Jack, so losing Jack + #13 pick isn’t a bad trade, but we also have Rudy coming over, which leaves us with…

Blake – Sergio
Roy – Rudy – Leandro
Webster – Jones
Aldridge – Outlaw – Frye – McRoberts
Oden – Pryzbilla – LaFrentz

Between both guard positions, there’s only 96 minutes per game. Conservatively, I would expect Roy to get about 35 minutes (averaged 37.7 this year), which leaves 61 minutes between Blake, Rudy, Leandro, and Sergio. Remember also that for those 35 minutes, the guard opposite Roy will need to shoulder at least some of the point guard duties. Can Rudy do this while also making the adjustment to the NBA game? Can Blake hold the position for one more year until someone else passes him (looking at you, Sergio)?

Barbosa is not a point guard, by any means, and I think acquiring pushes us one step closer to calling Roy our franchise point guard. Are we ok with this? My thinking is that historically, there have been great shooting guards that handled the ball (Jordan, K*be, etc) but they’ve always succeeded alongside pass first point guards who could shoot the three-ball (Kerr, Fisher, BJ Armstrong, Paxson, etc).

What happens when you insert another scorer into the lineup? Well the 76ers tried a lineup of Iverson and Larry Hughes, but that has to be considered a failed experiment. Are there any good examples of two scoring guards playing side-by-side?

It seems like it would be a mistake to turn one of our most efficient, if not our most efficient, individual scorers into our primary ball distributor. Why waste his ability to score with ease? Also, at least until July 1st, it’s going to be difficult to verify any trades for Barbosa with the Trade Checker because we lack a mid-sized contract to make this deal go through. James Jones seems like the only player who is likely to resign in the neighborhood of $3.5 – $4.5 million (as much as we like Von Wafer…) which increases the likelihood of him being included (is Jack + Jones + #13 still a good trade?). Or we can add Channing Frye, Josh McRoberts plus a resigned Von Wafer (at or near his current contract of $770,000) to get close to the boundaries of the CBA.

"I was a huge Dr. J fan, so I was upset when Maurice Lucas and Bill Walton beat up on him in the Championship. But now Portland has a good young nucleus and with Greg coming on next year, they'll be a team I'll follow throughout the season." Obama

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Jun 17, 2008 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"Are there any good examples of two scoring guards playing side-by-side?"

I know this isn’t exactly the answer to that question but….Drexler and TP is an example of a non-traditional set up. Terry was a PF in college and was a scorer, rebounder and ok assist man. Clyde was a prolific scorer plus a rebounder, and was pretty good assist guy as well (and brought up the ball frequently) . While this isn’t an exact comparison, I see alot of the same skills in Leandro/Roy….just dispersed differently between the players. Barbosa seems to be an ok ball handler and Roy runs the offense in the half court anyway. I think this may work ok and it does provide additional altheticism in the backcourt (as KP says he wants). Blake is also still here to provide the traditional point play when needed.

"My favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. Us kids would visit him in his cave. He would eat one of us from time to time. It wasn't till years later that we realized Uncle Caveman was a bear"

Jack Handy

by 92wastheyear on Jun 17, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to quibble, but

I watched a TON of Blazer games from the mid-80s to the mid-90s. In my recollections, Clyde very very rarely brought the ball up in a halfcourt situation. Sure, he did it lots of times on the fast break, but that is completely different. Have you seen him dribbling? He was great on the drive, but otherwise, his ball-handling was average at best. If a fast break wasn’t going, Terry (or the backup PGs) brought the ball up 95+ percent of the time.

by douglast on Jun 17, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Francis and Mobley

when they were on the Rockets were both scoring guards. And played pretty well…

by ghostdog on Jun 18, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did too

It seemed that Clyde did it more that 5% percent of the time but I could be wrong on that I guess…it has been a long time. I do remember us being a running team and that could feeding my recollection since we were on the break a LOT.

"My favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. Us kids would visit him in his cave. He would eat one of us from time to time. It wasn't till years later that we realized Uncle Caveman was a bear"

Jack Handy

by 92wastheyear on Jun 17, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Scoring - and KP's Gotta be lovin this draft.

He does bring some scoring. Granted, you’d almost have to say goodbye to Sergio, as Blake, Fernandez, Barbosa and Roy would use all the minutes. I would also point out that HoopsWorld did an analysis of the Bulls and their salary structure, and came to the conclusion that if the Bulls take Rose, then Gordon is gone because they can’t make his $9 million salary work with Deng’s, the first rounder, and everyone else. Further, they’d keep Hinrich because it gives them the veteran point to work with the rookie. And, some of you may recall when a rumor floated that we might be interested in Gordon’s 18 ppg.

My take right now. This is the perfect KP draft. It’s deep, but there isn’t a lot of seperation between 3 and 20. As a result, if you want to move lower, you don’t have to give us as much because the 13 still gets someone almost as talented as the 6 or 7. At the same time, Minnesota, Phoenix, Memphis, the Knicks, the Nets, and others are talking trading up.. The teams in the top 10 because they can still get a good player 4 or 5 spots higher, and are hoping to get another decent player as well. 2 for the price of one, as it were.

KP’s gotta be lovin it. In another 8 days we’ll all know. My bet – he makes some moves. He’s traded with Chicago, Phoenix and the Knicks, among others, so don’t worry about those GM’s worry about being “PritchSlapped”.

by Eben Calder on Jun 17, 2008 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"we might be interested in Gordon’s 18 ppg"

“My take right now. This is the perfect KP draft.” Your right.

The price might be to high for Leandro Barbosa as RoyGoesTheDynamite pointed out.
But Ben Gordon is making slightly more and wants an increase.

Eric Gordon brings a similar style of speed and intensity and can be had if KP wants to go for a scorer.

by spencerbutte on Jun 17, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Irony

Now…Phoenix wants another 1st round pick after selling their last 2 to Paul Allen?

by two4larue on Jun 17, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

#13 and role player for Barbosa

Gimme some of that!

Maybe Phoenix wants to take Sergio off our hands? He actually may do well there. Although, now that Mike D is gone, he’ll have to play defense.

by JasonT on Jun 17, 2008 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A trade that works (but won't happen)

As blazerholic says, it’s very tricky to work with Phoenix’s roster. But I did manage to get one combination to work:

http://tinyurl.com/45rtud

Presumably we’d add #13 to that mix of players. Starts to get a bit rich, IMHO. And we’re not trading Sergio since he’s Rudy’s friend, right?

by kennetha on Jun 17, 2008 11:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I posted this elsewhere, but in response to you seems a good spot too.

Barbosa is a guard and we already have Rudy and Roy.

Still, Barbosa has shown that he can come off the bench and has excellent skills. That makes a STRONG three guard rotation and Barbosa is in our window and I don’t believe he’s expensive for the talent.

At the SF position this means that Outlaw will be running it or James, and I’m not sure either is really starter material. Outlaw is EXCELLENT off the bench, but a starter with major minutes? His B-ball IQ can be dangerous with a lot of minutes. I see us in serious need of a SF to start if James can’t.

I also see outlaw as a good PF/SF filler so that talent gets some good minutes. This means we keep Frye and Pryz and they only see about 10-15 minutes a game. I think Pryz would be okay, and maybe Frye, but Frye is better than that and that could become an issue. Another option is we find a free agent like Ime or trade Frye for a decent SF hole filler and continue Outlaw off the bench for PF and SF.

To sum it up:

Outlaw is a weak starter.
Creates a KILLER guard situation
Makes the blazers weaker on defense. (outlaw starter as webster is a better defender)
Makes the blazers stronger on offense.
Eliminates Sergio (I said this because Sergio wouldn’t have playing time in my other argument, but in this one you just trade him)

I like it but I’d rather keep Webster. I think his talent set better fills our needs and I do believe he’ll get better. Webster has had some attitude adjustment (doesn’t smile and wants to be a star) and I’d take that into consideration moving forward. It’s very possible that he needs to go and hence why he’s on the block. In that case I like what I get with him and I do it.

On the Suns end:

They’re looking to make the run now… I think it’s a DUMB idea, but jack and webster do help strengthen the team on defense and Jack will very likely thrive under Porter. It’ll slow the pace of the game down and I suspect that’ll be good for Jack. So… not that dumb.

You know… I think this trade is probably the best trade that I’ve heard so far out of all the rumors. (this was in response to a rumor out there.) The best as in most likely.

If we could keep Webster and do it for Jack and thirteen and sergio, I say do it. If we can’t, then it depends on the future of the team and what can be done to fix the SF hole that is created.

I don’t believe Barbosa is as bad at point as many people are making him out to be. He can bring the ball up and dish to Roy who then controls. In my mind this works VERY well. He doesn’t need the ball to get into position to score and he nails the three. This was an area we were weak in.

Jack and 13, no brainer. Jack, webster, and 13 becomes more expensive and an issue of real need and other trades available.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love Barbosa but don't see how he fits

I haven’t got a clue why people think LB is a point guard. He’s not a facilitator, he’s a lightening quick guy who needs the ball to be effective. Um, Rudy Fernandez anyone?

by koyote on Jun 18, 2008 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Barbosa necessarily needs the ball to be effective

I’m not a Suns expert by any stretch of the imagination, but when I’ve seen them play, Barbosa has done an excellent job as a spot-up three-point bomber and weak-slide slasher. My understanding is that he plays well off the ball.

by BlazersOrBust on Jun 18, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

doesn't need the ball

and he can bring it up and get it to Roy or others.

Personally i like that.

He has a good attitude and you now have a three guard rotation that is deadly on offense.

the only downside is a LARGE need for defense from the SF position and for Roy to get better at defense.

Other question is can Barbosa work with Nate.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 20, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No to Barbosa.

Go read Steve the Hedge’s analysis. It makes a good case for the argument that of the areas Portland might need to improve in, only perimeter defense can be considered as one that is not likely to improve while keeping the current roster intact. Barbosa is a not a perimeter defender. If you want someone off the Suns, take Raja Bell.

The only thing I see Portland as possibly needing is a 6-6 to 6-8 swingman who can play above average defense and hit the open jumper. We may already have that, if either Webster, Outlaw or even James Jones get better at D. If not, this type player is probably one of the easiest to find – Ime, Bell, Bowen, Quenton Ross, Posey, etc.

by timg56 on Jun 18, 2008 1:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If Jack goes...

to the Suns, it’d be nice for him to be mentored by TP. I could see that really helping his game. Then again I think Barbosa is not enough to give up him (or another role player) and the pick. Jack will mature/naturally play better with Oden, and is worth holding on to (in this situation, in my opinion).

by ghostdog on Jun 18, 2008 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Worth holding on to...

maybe Jack is—I don’t think he is, but hey, KP isn’t banging down my door to be one of his European scouts either. But even if you think he’s worth holding on to, where do his minutes come from?

There are only 96 minutes available at the two guard spots, and Roy’s chewing up at least 36 of them. Let’s say Blake and Fernandez both average 22 minutes a game next year (in my opinion, a conservative figure): is Jack gonna be happy as fourth guard off the bench for 15 minutes a game? Would he even be effective in this role, given his mental fragility with regards to minutes and team role?

My answer to both those questions is a resounding “no”. Rudy is an upgraded Jack, a combo guard who can get to the rim and provide scoring punch off the bench - Jack’s not gonna usurp him in the three-guard rotation we’ll likely be playing. The Jarrett Jack Point Guard Experiment was an unqualified disaster after three games this season - I don’t see Jack taking minutes from Blake as either the starting PG or the backup to Roy/whoever we may acquire this off-season to play point.

Jack’s a good guy and by all accounts an extremely hard worker. But he’s gone this off-season.

by BlazersOrBust on Jun 18, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs