Blazers vs Spurs: A statistical comparison
I was getting ready to write a nice piece on how the addition of GO and Rudy in addition to the other player's off-season improvements would increase our points per game by as many as +15. I even did a complete "what-if" spreadsheet to guage the incrimental changes and the effects they would have. I tossed it because we already have a real-life model (with historical data) to look at...the San Antonio Spurs.
Did you know the San Antonio Spurs and the Portland Trail Blazers each scored 7,820 points during the 2007-2008 regular season? The Spurs ended the season 56-26, while the Blazers finished at 41-41. What’s the difference?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p3KBVMkclWFgBfzMXDdyGMQ
Things that stand out to me:
- The Spurs are very efficient shooting the 2pt shot at 48.69%. Comparatively, the Blazers shot just 46.82%. That’s a difference of 1.87%, which equates to 2.33 points per game.
- The Spurs take a lot more 3pt shots and aggressively defend against it. Even though they shot a poorer percentage than the Blazers(36.89-37.73), they shot it well enough. More importantly, their opponents took 383 fewer attempts and converted only 34.23% of the time. The Spurs margin over their opponents in 3PT shots was +6.37 points per game. To put that into perspective, the Blazer’s margin against their opponents was +0.18 points per game. DAAAAANG!
- The Spurs get back on defense rather than fight for the offensive rebound, and they aggressively fight for the defensive rebound. Although SAS and PTB both end with similar total rebound numbers, their philosophies seem opposite. This may have to do with Portland’s use of the Zone Defense making it difficult to get the defensive rebound since the players are out of position to properly box-out, but it could also be that SA values getting back into their defensive posture more than the chance at getting the rebound and the risk of letting a fast break opportunity score against them. This would seem the ideal defensive decision to negate the uptempo offense.
- The Spurs make their opponents play 1 on 5. Looking at the assist numbers, the disparity is marked (1718-1490). That’s a difference of 2.78 assists per game! Comparing that to the Blazers, we have a +0.23 assist per game margin. This is likely due to better man-to-man defense, where there is an emphasis on denying the pass, and forcing the ball handler onto an island.
- The types of turnovers versus the quantity of turnovers. Looking at the numbers, both teams had about the same total number (PTB1056-SAS1035). I found the offensive foul number eye opening. We committed 153 while SA committed 117. But, we drew 178, while they drew 153. That tells me that with more experience, our PGs will know not to use the picks until the pick is set (Looking at you Sergio). It also tells me that we were at least mildly aggressive attacking the basket. Are the Spurs really floppers? It sure looks that way when you watch them on TV, but we drew more offensive fouls than they did. In that case, it was tactical skill and gamesmanship. A little tightening on the ball handling would really improve us (ie Jack and stepping out of bounds).
- The Spurs never foul anyone, just ask them (88 fewer fouls per season). The Blazers OTOH always seem to foul when the shot is going up. On the plus side, they’ve learned to get a shot off when the whistle blows in their favor. The net effect is that we take almost as many as we give. The Spurs are similar, but they’re on the positive side of the statistic, while we’re slightly negative.
- So, where do we go from here? There are several areas where I expect to see changes due to personnel moves and strategy changes. With the addition of GO to the starting line-up and Joel fortifying the second unit, we’ll have true centers in both units which should increase our rebounding both offensively and defensively. Greg’s presence in the post should allow for higher percentage shots from point blank range (points in the paint), and create more wide open 3pt opportunities for James, Roy, Steve, Martell, Travis, Rudy, etc. With the improved rebounding and the addition of Rudy, I expect the see us push the tempo a bit more and try to get more transition buckets before defenses are set. Although the zone defense and its variants were one of the things that helped us through that winning streak last season, I expect (or at least hope) that we’ll have improved enough individually to play more man-to-man defense.
It won’t take much to improve from an average team to an elite team. A few more possessions, one more block, one more steal, a few more rebounds, a couple more open 3s, one percent more shooting percentage, and running the opposition off the 3pt line. That’s the difference between 41 wins and 56 wins.
What do the numbers tell you? What areas will we see improvement at, and how will that translate to our number of wins?
*I've gathered the statistical data from the team's home pages as well as 82games.com. Where there were discrepancies, I defered to the team's data.
**I've created the 2 point columns to better illustrate the differences in shots and efficiency.
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Great analysis
This gets a rec.
by bleedingblackandred on Jun 16, 2008 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is great
I really no argument for this analysis. Very thorough very worthy of a top fan post this got a rec
:)
-Sophia
That which prematurely arrives at perfection soon perishes. - Marcus Fabius Quintilian (35-95AD) Roman Rhetorician, Critic
3 comments and 5 recs...
that is a slam dunk, my friend.
good stuff.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jun 16, 2008 3:47 PM PDT reply actions
I'm all about PIP
Points in the paint gets you the And-1, and puts the opposition into foul trouble.
by Steve The Hedge on Jun 16, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
A big factor
I read a quote from Doc Rivers yesterday about not having Perkins that it means that KG cannot be the rover in their defense per normal. Interesting word – rover. If KG can do that Greg may be able to do the same and points in the paint for the opponents will drop considerably. With Greg and Joel we do have much better depth but I believe we still need another big defender in case of foul trouble or injury. Frye is not that guy to me. LMA needs to concentrate on PF to be the all-star we know he can be. One of the bigs in the bottom half of the draft might help us more than a perimeter defender this year and even next year.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
What about LMA as a rover?
If Greg is locking down on the bigger post threat inside, wouldn’t that make Lamarcus the man to rove around and help from the weakside? With Joel and Oden this year, I think we might see LMA showing some skills on the defensive side of the court because he won’t be putting in nearly as many minutes at the center position or at the PF position with a overmanned Frye at the center spot.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Yep. LMA roving around on defnse
while Oden guards the basket is what Nate was drooling over last year before Oden went down.
Or maybe either or
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
Nice work.
Yeah as for:
1. We are a jumpshooting team as compared to SAS having Duncan and Parker. 2. We should be there if Webster can become consistent, Jones healthy, Rudy is a good as advertised, TO keeps improving and we can draft/trade for a G who can shoot 40% from 3. I just drool thinking about surrounding Roy, LMA and Oden with 2 players who shoot 45% form 3 oooooohhhhh. 3. That is an interesting analysis, probably because they are older and cant get back as fast they send everyone back immediately.Once again great job and I think with us getting more athletic at the G position we can lower that 3pt % for the opponents and with Rudy and hopefully Gordon coming in we can boost our own 3pt %. And with Oden thrown in the mix our 2pt % should go up a lot too.
Do you think anybody we draft will
actually make a big difference this year on defense? If we get a shooter (priority per KP) that player may get some time but a defender gets spot minutes until he develops experience. Our perimeter defenders will be so much better when we can get up in their grill knowing there is help behind us.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
We have a shooter
In rudy. I don’t know that we need another.
I think our need becomes thinning out the roster and a strong post player (see alexander)
I see us pritchslapping New York again to move up to number 6 and giving them a few nice pieces while taking on or buying out some other guys. dollar wise I don’t think it’ll be major and I suspect we’d have to be creative to make something really work for us again as we don’t really want their pieces, but would want to move up in the draft and thin out our pieces.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
Can you every have enough shooters in the NBA?
I seem to remember a couple of times coaches answering that question in the negative. I am not forgetting Rudy and I assume KP wasn’t either when he made the statement in the draft context.
I am not lobbying for a particular draft choice this year as I have temporarily retired as Blazer Fan GM for as long as KP keeps blowing away all the competition. Thankfully my relacement(s) have been legion. I do still try to read the tea leaves (smile).
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
Curious about couple of other things
Do you have the numbers for points in the paint (for and against) and points off turnovers (for and against)?
Not sure if you factored in PACE. Team stats per 100 possessions may give more insight.
Good Read.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
Kind of
Here is a link to 82games.com that shows the shot breakdown for each team. It doesn’t include the “against” numbers however.
Here is a link to an article arguing against the reliability of points off turnovers. I was unable to locate any statistical information on that subject.
Pace was not a factor I considered. Pace is a factor when trying to level the playing field between two dissimilar playing styles. Since the Blazers and Spurs both play a more traditional half-court style, I didn’t see how including it would materially effect the outcome of my conclusions. Wow, was that lawyer-speak, or geek-speak?
by Steve The Hedge on Jun 17, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel like a believer
just out from church! Excellent analysis and excellent writeup. Thanks for the work.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
Efficiency Ratings
The Blazers last year were 14th in offense for the league (107.3 pts per 100 possessions) and 17th in defense (108.4 pts allowed per 100 possessions).
The Spurs were 15th in offense (107.2) and 3rd in defense (101.8).
Basically, the Spurs had no advantage over us on offense. The 15-game difference is all defense. The two areas of weakness in the Blazers defense were forcing turnovers and defensive rebounding. Forcing a low opponent FG% and not fouling were the strengths of the defense.
Predicting the changes for both offense and defense are tough with the addition of what we hope are impact players.
What should be the long-term strengths of this team? The Blazers are already good at not turning the ball over on offense. Would adding Oden hurt that since a player like Dwight Howard is fairly turnover prone? The Blazers are already good at holding opponents to a low percentage and not fouling on defense. Could using an unknown defender in Rudy hurt those strengths?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html
The chart at the bottom labled “Miscellaneous Statistics” is the most useful one IMO. It can be ordered in offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, and in each of the “Four Factors” that stat geeks love.
by poster on Jun 16, 2008 8:54 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
6 - Fouls
Agreed with everything you say, but wouldn’t you say that contrasting the Spurs vs. Blazers as far as fouls go is a little unfair? After all, the Spurs are a pretty old team and we’ve got, as has been said ad nauseum, the 3rd youngest in NBA history. Surely some foul savviness comes with age, yes?
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Statistics Show
That shooting 3s is a good idea. They offer a better true shooting percentage than other jump shots (that is, the extra point you get more than makes up for the increase in difficulty), and they lead to more offensive rebounds than other jump shots.
Obviously, not EVERY 3 is a good idea, but utilizing the deep shot and defending against it seems important to me.
Alexander seems like a Adam Morrison type player at #13, but that might be ok if we need shooters.
Third string Center ?
Don’t forget about Raef. He’s not just a expiring contract. When he saw
time he set picks, rebounded and blocked shots. He’s healthy, a veteran
who can shoot and is a pro in practice and on the bench. I’ve always liked
Raef and his game, but most Blazers fans love his contract.
It's GO time !
I like Raef too
He went to KU!
But I am thinking ahead for when he is gone (and he is gone in 1 more year at most) and getting now from a pretty deep Center draft.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
One of the best posts in a long time.
It also speaks for a positive improvement and development of the Blazers. I agree with lee though about the need for better defenders. That appears to be the one area where SA holds an advantage we may not be able to make up right away.
PS – I also liked the analysis of SA’s apparant defensive philosophy. Good job.
defense
While stats don’t lie, the interpretation of them can be misleading if the wrong questions are being asked.
That said, numbers can say a lot. What your numbers say are that we need to improve on defense and we’ll want to be able to open the floor more with three point shooting.
Rudy is an excellent shooter and can help with that, in theory.
Oden will help with Interior defense and giving nate more flexibility in other defensive areas. (see aldridge roaming)
I still see us weak on the perimeter and that will be the final piece to really put in place before we can make the championship run. Some will come with age, but it also has to come with a mentality that defense is everything. NO guts no glory and no defense no glory.
Excellent post.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
I am glad we have Coach Nate
and for his stress on defensive principles and effort. After Tuesday night the whole league must be studying their defense strategy books. How does Tom Thiebodeau not even get a request for interview by the NBA teams needing a head coach? He is even a free agent.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
To chime in here
I posted a very naive sort of analysis when I first joined BE, where I said that I could see our overall point differential increasing by about 10. This drew a lot of comments about what I might’ve been smoking, etc.
But, I still believe it.
Oden + Rudy + general all-around improvement = +5 pts on offense and -5 pts on defense.
I’ve been known to be psychic—or is that psycho?—so it could happen. We shall see …
But anyhoo, add me to the long list of admirers of your stellar logic and incisive prose!
"Shoot, I don't even have anything to put in my own sig"
These are the modest words of pualo, posted on June 20, 2008.
Yes, pualo, an extraordinarily discerning BEdger with a knack for subtle expression.

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