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Donaghy

Kitten_tiny by Dave on

As Damir has pointed out in the sidebar, the news is breaking all over that recently-unsealed court documents quote disgraced referee Tim Donaghy alleging playoff games were purposely influenced by NBA refs.  The two series at issue appear to be the 2005 Houston-Dallas series where Jeff Van Gundy pitched a fit on behalf of Yao Ming and the infamous 2002 L*kers-Kings Western Conference Finals.  Obviously these accusations have been alleged for years.  Oddly enough, this doesn't really help Donaghy's case.  The NBA has tried to portray him as a disgruntled former employee willing to say anything in order to make things easier on himself...in essence that his credibility now is no greater than it was when he was officiating (which obviously wasn't very great).  That certainly merits consideration, especially considering his testimony was given in an attempt to reduce his own punishment.  If you were going to bring what you hoped were damning allegations the exact place you'd start would be these series.  Any one of us could have alleged the same.  If these two series were fixed they obviously weren't the first and only ones.  Where are the patterns that show that kind of organized corruption?  We need more than just this to make a conclusive judgment.

On the other hand were these allegations ever proven (which would be a difficult task unless somebody were stupid enough to put instructions on paper or send them via e-mail) this would obviously be the most damning fix in American professional sports history.  Heretofore scandals have involved only a couple players on scattered teams in indiviudal games.  They put a blight on their sports but it was like a wart on an otherwise good finger.  This kind of scandal would be like a cancer, permeating the entire body.  Every playoff result in the modern era would come into question.  You couldn't trust results from a single game.

Providing the NBA survived that kind of jolt without losing the majority of its fan base, a couple of remedies would be instantly needed.  First of all David Stern would have to resign immediately.  It's possible he and the direct perpetrators could be facing racketeering charges for this kind of thing, but even if no convictions came, his entire era would be disgraced.  Second, the league would have to go beyond mere transparency in its officiating.  They'd have to put a constant spotlight on the refs, their calls, their reviews, punishments and suspensions, and pretty much everything else they did.  They'd have to take steps we've never seen in professional sports before in order to convince people of their legitimacy.  Even then it might not be enough.

For that reason, I'm hoping Donaghy is a loose cannon and none of this is true.  As much as the aching fan in me would like some confirmation that the L*kers and other big-market teams really were favored back in the 90's when the Blazers were threatening, the cost of that being true and provable would probably be too high.

Even if nothing else comes of this--even if it's completely false--it's indictment enough that a guy can make these accusations without causing most folks to blink an eye.  Ideally you'd want the American public to say, "No way!  I can't believe that!"  Instead I'd bet most of us wouldn't take much convincing.  For all that David Stern has done for the league, that is an inescapable legacy of his tenure, and it's a damning one that's not mentioned nearly enough.  The NBA is concerned about its image problem with baggy clothes and gold chains.  That pales in comparison to this issue and the persistent hits the league has taken over the years over its officiating and perceived favoritism.  One way or another, it's time for a new era in this league if they ever expect the sport to catch on fully again.  The NBA needs to wake up.  Even if Tim Donaghy is fabricating this story completely (the best possible outcome for the league) the fact that the story is there to be believably fabricated shows that something is wrong.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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The Urge to Dismiss Guilty Men is Strong

But I think everyone should wait this out and try their best not to let the league sweep it under the rug. Under the pressure of legal scrutiny a lot of things get said, but not necessarily all lies just to get out of trouble. Consider the historical case of John Dean. And keep at the very least an open mind.

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 10, 2008 4:49 PM PDT   1 recs

The FBI

The FBI doesn’t know much about basketball, but they do know a lot about crime. Which makes them different than all the ESPN people commenting on Donaghy’s credibility They all know a lot about basketball and not much about crime.

You see, the FBI only makes deals for information they think is credible and valuable. If the FBI was willing to deal with Donaghy for this information, they’d actually have to believe it’s useful. That’s why I believe it’s useful.

The NBA, and David Stern specifically, promised us all transparency after the first scandal. They keep claiming they have statistics to show that there is no bias in refereeing. I talked to my mom about this, who knows a lot about statistics and marketing and comically little about basketball. From that view, it was simple: if the statistics claimed what Stern claims they claim (stick with me here), then they’d be available. The fact that they are not available is proof that there is bias.

by rmcdougall on Jun 11, 2008 10:04 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it actually illegal

for the league to have its refs throw games, not for gambling purposes, but to get the bigger market teams in the Finals?

I mean, look at pro wrestling…it’s all engineered. They don’t get indicted for it since everyone knows it is. So IF (big if) this were true, is it really a basis for the FBI to prosecute people?

I’m genuinely curious. I don’t know the legalities of professional sports.

by jamon51 on Jun 11, 2008 11:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

illegal

I am almost sure of it. There is legal NBA gambling in Vegas for instance and fixed games (for what ever reason) would be fraud.

"My favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. Us kids would visit him in his cave. He would eat one of us from time to time. It wasn't till years later that we realized Uncle Caveman was a bear"

Jack Handy

by 92wastheyear on Jun 11, 2008 9:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh yeah

It’s illegal for anyone to fix those games…gamblers, players, players’ mamas, gamblers’ mamas. David Stern or refs doing it would be illegal also.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 12, 2008 3:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh My...

Never have I wanted to believe referees are utterly incompetent as I have now.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Jun 10, 2008 4:52 PM PDT   0 recs

yeah

I know what you mean.

Although, if it’s true, I’d rather the truth come out and the game be cleansed so that the blazers have a fair shake.

The first half of that Celtics game was pretty bad…

The Sacramento game was absolutely horrible.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the refs for game six of the 2002 WCF were...
27 Dick Bavetta , #16 Ted Bernhardt , #26 Bob Delaney

when donaghy talks about “company men” he is talking about big names here.

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 10, 2008 4:58 PM PDT   0 recs

i just saw that

blzrfan beat me to this in damir’s fanpost… good job blazrfan!

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 10, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ted Bernhardt and Bob Delaney were the two "company men"

I wrote in the comments of the fanpost that the writer of the SacBee watched that game 6 again and noted those two referees were calling an atrocious game. I always thought Dick Bavetta was alright.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Jun 10, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

bob delaney

wrote that book about his time infiltrating the mob. it would take giant brass _ to rig such an important game and then come back 5 years later and write a book like that.

just sayin’

"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.

by Ben. on Jun 10, 2008 5:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Donaghy is under oath

he’d be an absolute lunatic to be lying now, since he could get charged with perjury and would no doubt get a worse sentence. Every crook knows that when you roll over, you better not be wasting The Man’s time.

by raoulduke on Jun 10, 2008 5:07 PM PDT   0 recs

not really

the salem witch trials were a result of people hoping to reduce their punishment and pointing the fingers at others.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:08 PM PDT   0 recs

I know

And they got rid of all the witches, didn’t they?

BLZRS FRVR

by nightbluefruit on Jun 10, 2008 5:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Possibly

but if you were a witch, you might be pointing your finger to get rid of all the non-witches, and then insert yourself into a position of power while everyone is distracted, raise fear in the masses of lurking evil, and go find some more witches.

Donaghy might be part of some brilliant conspiracy to overthrow Stern and place an evil Ref inside the NBA that will make sure the lakers and Celtics only lose to each other again.

I tell you, that’s the master plan!!!

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cheese Rat, it sounds like you're describing our present administration.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 10, 2008 6:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

now now

that wouldn’t be kosher.

History does repeat itself at various points which is why history IS an important class to take. Then you can recognize the patterns.

Iran’s government actually took over using that method. Germany used something along those lines as did Russia. It’s a very common pattern amongst dictators across history. Not all of them were exactly the same, but not all of them were different.

Heck, the latest Star Wars also show cased something very much along those same lines.

Of course, we’re not talking about the sith here… just witches.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 7:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Salem witch trials?

Don’t you mean Andover witch trials?

It’s funny, the people of Andover are all kinda pissed that they burned so many witches (read: people) and get no credit for it. They burned more than the people of Salem. Whereas the people of Salem (those that are not trying to make money off of the witch trials) are generally sincerely embarrassed by the crimes (of the burners, not the witches. The witches’ crimes are too severe to be apologized for. Burn them!)

... Churches!! Very small rocks!...

by rmcdougall on Jun 11, 2008 10:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Whistling in the dark

No one wants this to be true, but given the nonchalant attitude of the league toward owners, players, and refs gambling, its a virtual certainty that the mob has their hooks into the NBA from top to bottom. If you think their gambling stops at a World Series of Poker table, a golf course, or a Blackjack Table, you’re whistling in the dark. You might as well expect heroin junkies to only shoot up on odd numbered Sundays where the night time temperature in Yerevan is 12C. The nice guys from New York hang back like vultures and pounce the second someone pauses on the road to ruin.

Anyone who has watched enough NBA & college basketball to make intelligent posts has seen enough head-scratching calls to know its true in their gut. It is just a matter of the facts being revealed despite the collective efforts of the NBA to prevent that from ruining fan interest in their entertainment product.

by Farty MacFartson on Jun 10, 2008 5:10 PM PDT   0 recs

Phil Jackson brought up an excellent point(ugh, did i just say that?)...

The nba needs to have no relations with their referees. There needs to be some sort of union whose only agenda is protecting the integrity of the nba and its officiating. It needs to be totally seperate from the NBA. Refs should not be taking orders and answering to the powers that be throughout the NBA, it just seems like a conflict of interest to me….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jun 10, 2008 5:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Instead, they need to work for Jerry Buss

or whoever it is who employs Phil. :)

by EngineerScotty on Jun 10, 2008 5:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You mean officially work for Buss

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 11, 2008 12:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

if you like

you can say that I brought up an excellent point, because I’ve been preaching something along those lines for years. I think I shut up a few years ago when the blazers stopped making the play-offs. Officiating has annoyed me forever. Then I could sound brilliant (which I was) and you wouldn’t need to quote PHil Jackson (who, if true, doesn’t deserve all those rings. hmmm… who’s the faker NOW PHil?)

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was quoting you brah...

I figured that no other person in the nba fit your handle better than Phil Jackson. To me, those names are one in the same, sort of like Michael Jordan and MJ….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jun 10, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

awesome

I never really thought of Phil as a Rasta bird, but I bet you he smoked his bit back in the day… or even now. Do they drug screen coaches?

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

either way

groovy dude… just groovy.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 8:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NBA conspiracies

Isn’t there some sort of website devoted to this sort of thing? If so, they suddenly became much more legitimate. There are so many head-scratching things in the NBA that make you wonder. And no, it’s not just blown calls either….

The most common one is that Jordan received a secret suspension for gambling, and that was somehow linked to his father’s death.

The one that always puzzled me was back in Shaq’s rookie year when he broke not one, but two backboards. The second time (in Phoenix, I think) it seemed like it was completely rigged. They even had a separate game ready to switch to (with a national broadcast team and everything), and this was at a time when the NBA did NOT have separate regional or back up games.

Anyway, while I understand Dave’s sentiment, part of me really wants this to be true because:

1. It would confirm my suspicions (and I am NOT a conspiracy theorist by nature); and
2. They would have to clean up the game for real in order to win fans back. That means more instant replay (and/or other technological advancements), stop falling for the flops, stop favoring the stars, a more objective measurement for what consitutes a technical foul, a separate and transparent referee’s union, etc.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 10, 2008 5:28 PM PDT   0 recs

David Stern

I think he has done a very good job as commish, it would be horrible to stain his career with this.

I don’t think he gets enough credit for implementing the NBA Cares program and all the good it has done

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Jun 10, 2008 5:32 PM PDT   0 recs

hmmmm

True, Stern may have done good else where, but the unwillingness to incorporate technology that wouldn’t slow the game and would help with the calls, and create a program that helps the refs make better calls and reviews plays (even privately) with the regs, has caused Stern to be on my “I’m unhappy with you list” for a while.

Stern has put himself in this position by refusing to enact change. He’s refused to recognize, even if the calls ARE legit or were made with good intentions, that technology can help the refs due a better job and doing something to address the situation is better than ignoring it.

I have very little doubt these accusations are true and that is Stern’s fault for inaction and thus supporting the accusations. I saw bad calls with the Jazz in a game 6 against the bulls, I saw it in the sacramento game, and I saw it in game two of the Celtics in the first half. People know which games I’m talking about without more explanation, and that should stand out even more.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why dew my fingers

type due instead of do? I know the difference between there and their they’re and yet my fingers will type as they dew due.

Ah for an edit or a larger comment window.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 5:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No edits that I can see,

But, you can make the comment window bigger. There’s a couple of diagonal lines in the bottom right hand corner that you can click and drag to whatever size you ned to work with.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 10, 2008 8:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

oh cool

thanks. That will help with the proof reading

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 11, 2008 5:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Use the Preview, Luke!

Works for me.

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball. --Phil Jackson
If you meet Greg Oden in the lane, drop the ball and run. --MiledAnimal

by MiledAnimal on Jun 11, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe that's only in Safari?

Since Safari has that for all text entry fields? I don’t see it in Firefox.

by pualo on Jun 11, 2008 3:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would disagree pretty strongly

that Stern is a good commish. I think the success the NBA has had comes in spite of the man.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 11, 2008 6:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

game 6 of the Lakers-Kings series...

... was the single worst officiated game I have ever seen in my life. I have always suspected it was fixed.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jun 10, 2008 5:47 PM PDT   0 recs

AGreed

that game was worse than the Jazz game or even the Boston game.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 8:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

agree with snake

It took me a long time to get back to taking the NBA seriosuly after Kobe ran over Mike Bibby at the end of that game. That’s the worst call I’ve ever seen in any sport.

JRogero

by JRogero on Jun 10, 2008 5:53 PM PDT   0 recs

Don't expect a paper trail...

..however, the testimony of another NBA official would be enough…

by Dr Dave on Jun 10, 2008 5:54 PM PDT   0 recs

Interesting

To put a little faith in humanity for a second (not saying I don’t think it could possibly ever be true):

Let’s go ahead and assume that what Donaghy is saying is true. Say that there is a secret, unwritten code amongst certain referees and the league offices to fix games in favor of big-market or star-laden teams.

Don’t you think that at least ONE of the people who is either directly involved in it, or is friends with those involved in it and knows about it, knows the underpinnings of it, etc., would then not be able to stomach it and, in turn, blow the whistle on the whole thing? I mean, it’s not like a conspiracy like this would be capable without a decent chunk of people being at least aware of it, right?

I mean, it really would only take one person who can put forth solid, concrete evidence… and that’s basically the end of the NBA… done, blow it up, etc.

Incidentally, this is also the best way to debunk any 9/11 conspiracy theories. SOMEONE would have said SOMETHING, right?

by lyleleander on Jun 10, 2008 6:15 PM PDT   1 recs

not necessarily

If I knew something and believed in it, (right or wrong can be in the eye of the beholder) then I wouldn’t spill no matter what. That’s my nature.

Just because something can’t be proven doesn’t prove the absence of that something.

UFOs could exist. I’m not sure that I believe that they do, but a lack of evidence doesn’t exactly prove them false either, it just makes it that less likely but it could be we’re looking in the wrong places in the wrong way.

Just saying.

It really wouldn’t take that many and those people could also have their jobs/reputations on the line. Why ruin a good thing?

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 8:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In the words of Gin Rummy from The Boondocks

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

by Jerb on Jun 10, 2008 8:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

noted

and using.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 11, 2008 5:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have little to no faith in humanity.

We always find a way to screw things up somehow. I would not be surprised to find out that this stuff was true. Still, I don’t think it is (Or is that hope?). So I agree with you, except for the humanity thing.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Fan Club

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on Jun 10, 2008 8:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Lyleleander ....

You are the voice of reason. And liking to look at myself as a reasonable person …. I’m in total agreement.

by TwoDeep on Jun 11, 2008 9:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not necessarily.

These individuals all need to support their famalies, so it’s not really a matter of what’s best for others but what’s best for themselves. This job provides them a means to get by, better than most folks if what I’ve seen about some of their salaries are true.

If one individual did feel they were doing something wrong, they would probably feel a lot of pressure against going public about it. They would definitely risk losing their job, and possibly hurting their chances of finding a new one. They may feel guilty about making their co-workers lose their jobs, or even go to jail, cause it is likely that most of the people involved have developed some kind of friendship with others involved. They could also be afraid of retribution, though hopefully unlikely, for going public about these kinds of things.

by Jerb on Jun 10, 2008 7:17 PM PDT   0 recs

It's called

the good old boy network.

It can be very unhealthy at times because people stop holding each other accountable.

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 10, 2008 8:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Anyone else see Van Gundy comment on this

They asked him because of what he said during the Rockets-Mavs playoff series when he was coach. Interestingly, while he said “I don’t want to lend credence to Donaghy” he also didn’t back off from what he said back then.

I have little doubt that the league, in one way or another, communicates to refs about how games ‘might’ be handled. Way too much money involved for an enterprise like the NBA not to. And that would get some refs thinking, “Well, if the league does it…”

And consider “makeup calls”. They happen all the time, even announcers point them out from time to time, but they’re accepted as part of the game. Or veteran players getting calls and non-calls as a matter of course. When the rules are dealt with in such a fast and loose manner as they are, it’s almost expected that the league and refs would occasionally do things in its/their own interest.

I’m not saying everything is always fixed, but NBA refereeing isn’t exactly pure as the driven snow.

by grimc on Jun 10, 2008 10:40 PM PDT   0 recs

yeah

he looked very uncomfortable addressing it live like that. Can’t blame him, totally awkward. I’m actually surprised that it was even brought up, I thought they’d just ignore it (at least during the game)

by mark twain on Jun 10, 2008 11:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree. Van Gundy chose his words VERY carefully, while still trying to say what he felt.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 11, 2008 12:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What got me was Stuart Scott

leading into Van Gundy’s comments. One phrase stuck out to me—it’s my good ol’ UO journamalism trainin’. He characterized Donaghy’s allegations as an “effort to get less jail time”. While there’s little doubt that that’s the case, there’s no proof. Donaghy hasn’t said it, his lawyer hasn’t said it, the prosecution hasn’t said it. ESPN was just doing NBA damage control. Scott’s statement wasn’t journalism, it was PR. And surprise, surprise: Both Stern and Mike Breen echoed the idea that Donaghy was just gunning for a lighter sentence. Message discipline and all that.

by grimc on Jun 11, 2008 12:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds familiar, huh.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 11, 2008 12:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Indeed

"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned

by ratbastird on Jun 11, 2008 5:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Administrations of

Nixon, Bush and Bill Clinton come to mind. In fact most presidential administrations from Nixon forward have used some sort of Message Discipline. Certain parties at certain times and some political guru’s such as Karl Rove are especially good at it.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Jun 11, 2008 2:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Rove is the epitome of political slimeball-ness and personifies everything wrong with Washington DC.

Okay. Just that one tiny little rant.

"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar

by annthefan on Jun 11, 2008 3:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ball-less

the majority of the writers are yellow when it comes to pointing out how bad NBA refereeing is and speculating as to why. I guess if you have a cushy job, why rock the boat?

I pointed out earlier in the thread that the NBA was willing to re-hire convicted criminals to referee their games and nobody blinked an eye. Even now when I post it, nobody blinks an eye. NBA fans can’t complain if they are going to continue to enable.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 11, 2008 3:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I've said it for a while...

...you can debate how much influence ref’s are having on the outcome, you can believe whatever you want, from it’s rigged to they are doing the best they can, but the perception is growing that N.B.A. refs are “overly” influencing the game. Donaghy aside, specific allegations aside, the fact that people all over are having this debate is indicitive of a serious problem. For immediate example, I know this is a very limited test pool, but everyone I talked to today about game 3 of The Celtics/L*kers series, seemed to take it as a given that there was little or no chance of The Lakers losing. Without outright saying The Refs wouldn’t let it happen, they were saying it wasn’t going to happen. Is that what The N.B.A. wants? A fanbase that is subconciously believing that the outcome is assured? Donaghy is just a high profile symptom of a lowgrade but growing illness in the N.B.A., the feeling that the refs are poor, overly influencing outcome. The N.B.A. needs to do something about this or risk eroding credibility with fans.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jun 11, 2008 12:16 AM PDT   0 recs

Totally

To me, you can’t ensure that no refs are shady, but you can severely limit their influence. Personally, I’d like to see their influence, shady or not, reduced. For instance, very few times have I heard of referees blowing football games or conspiracy theories regarding that, either.

For one, basketball fouls are HIGHLY subjective, and any time flopping or ‘selling’ or ‘earning’ a foul comes along, you know that the system’s a little screwy. I’d like to see some much more transparent evidence of fouls come out other than ‘he fell over’ or ‘his arms flailed’. This isn’t entertainment and this isn’t sporting. I think football gets it right to a degree with the splitting up of duties. Perhaps that could be incorporated into the system to get things a little more concrete.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jun 11, 2008 12:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The "NBA" has never wanted a sweep

in the finals, yet it has happened. That’s bunk to me that there was no way the refs were not going to let LA lose. That game could easily have been won by Boston as it was close in the 4th.

That doesn’t mean I don’t agree that the officiating isn’t biased toward the stars (which I have always hated).
But in this series there are stars on both teams, although the Celts have two more than the Lakers. Is the NBA biased toward certain big-market teams? Sure seems like it but then how do you explain the success of the Spurs and other NBA unpopular teams?.

by TwoDeep on Jun 11, 2008 9:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just to clarify...

...I’m not saying that there was “no way the refs were not going to let LA lose”. What I’m saying is everyone I talked to before the game seemed to feel there was no way Boston would win or LA would lose. Now if you assume the two finalists in the N.B.A. are both excellent teams then what has led fans to make that blanket assumption?
Maybe it’s not a great example but my point is more precisely there is a growing feeling, an accepted perception that N.B.A. refs are influencing outcome to various debatable degrees and this is coming NOT just from fans of opposing or losing teams. The N.B.A. needs to make changes, tangible real changes. So far all we have had is lip service and David Stern telling us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jun 12, 2008 10:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

postgame reactions

I don’t know what the heck Jackson was talking about when he referred to a supposed blown call against the Lakers in game 5 of the 2002 WCF…

...but what I do know is, David Stern sounded a lot like the David Stern I read about back when I read the book about Connie Hawkins.

Uh, Mr. Stern? You are a lawyer, so I know you know this, but I’m gonna say it anyway:

1. You are not the judge in the Donaghy case. So YOU do not have the power to reduce his sentence.
2. Impugning Donaghy’s motives does not help your cause. Refute the facts. Be transparent (what really happened in the Van Gundy matter?). We already know that Donaghy is a slimeball, but he’s saying stuff that many people are already highly suspicious of. When you smugly wave off Donaghy’s remarks, you are giving every NBA fan the finger.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 11, 2008 12:32 AM PDT   0 recs

Speaking of the book ("Foul" - the Connie Hawkins story)

http://www.amazon.com/Foul-Connie-Hawkins-Story-David/dp/0030860210

From the first review:

Finally, the book delivers a detailed account of the legal fight undertaken to remove the ban. This was achieved by his committed - and of course poorly paid - attorneys over the determined opposition of, among others, current NBA commissioner David Stern, who hardly expresses remorse in his interviews with the author.

MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)

by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 11, 2008 12:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Divac

Phil Jackson should realize that, if stupid Vlade Divac didn’t accidentally tip the ball to a wide open Horry in game 4, the Lakers would have been down 3-1. I also wonder if Stern had something to do with Sabonis not coming over to the NBA in 1988. I read one of the articles about that in the SI Vault, and it said that Stern had something to do with trying to get him over here(or not). He might have felt that, if Sabonis comes to the Blazers, his hero, MJ, wouldn’t have a dynasty in the 90’s. Just put it this way: David Stern is a scumbag, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he somehow told Sabonis to wait until he said it was okay to come over.

by PABroncofan on Jun 11, 2008 5:53 AM PDT   0 recs

I believe Donaghy for the most part

I don’t even find the allegations that shocking. Referees who are willing to (who did) cheat the government are certainly willing to cheat a bunch of fans who are usually talking on their call phones half the game. How anyone could watch this stuff and think the referees are impartial is beyond me.

Eventually doesn’t David Stern have to answer for the numerous mistakes on his watch? Eventually won’t the fans care they’re being scammed? As far as I’m concerned, once it was confirmed games were being compromised I swore I wouldn’t buy any more tix until Stern fixed his mess. I don’t like being ripped off. I guess I’m one of the few.

Hello?!

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jun 11, 2008 6:33 AM PDT   0 recs

This post reminds me of another ‘accepted’ notion in the NBA – veterans get calls, rookies don’t. Why don’t they? Why shouldn’t they? The rationalization that they haven’t ‘earned’ a foul call because they haven’t been in the league long enough is expounded as some sort of sporting truism by commentators on every