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The Key Ingredient

Sorry to leave you with questions the last couple days instead of well thought-out, impeccably-constructed hoo-hah, but I've been on some very long road trips which have left my energy supply almost dry.  The hoo-hah will have to wait for the weekend.

HOWEVER, fear not!  As I was driving today I was thinking that the key ingredient to any championship team, let alone repeat championship team, is defense.  Good "D" is one of the hardest things to quantify statistically.  Like pornography, you just know it when you see it.  A lot of it depends on team effort and commitment, which gives us an immediate leg up as this team has been constructed to feature those exact qualities.  You still have to have some ability/talent however, and therein lies today's discussion.

A fool with cataracts in one eye and a pickle stuck in the other could look at this team and tell that our strongest defensive position is center.  Joel Przybilla is a good defender.  Greg Oden has the potential to be a great one.  As we said a couple days ago, one excellent big-man defender can bolster your entire lineup.  But that doesn't change the fact that outside of the center position, our defensive credentials are...somewhat spotty.

Given that, here are the questions at hand:

1.  After the two big men, who's the best defender on this team?  If you prefer to pick one frontcourt and one backcourt defender to highlight that's fine too.

2.  Which player currently on the squad has the best chance to develop into a good defender and why?

3.  Outside of the center position, which position is going to be the most critical to our defensive success in the coming years?  Where do we need a great defender to balance the pivot men?

4.  How good do you see us being defensively as we inch into our prime years?

I am curious to hear your responses.

--Dave 

0 recs  |  Comment 69 comments

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Defense is for losers

Just ask the Spurs, Celtics, and Pistons. I think Brandon is an underrated defender, and Blake is as well. I don’t have a very strong opinion on defense though, I turn the channel when the Blazers don’t have the ball. Nothing is going to be the same as last year. With the addition of Greg everybody will look better (because he is so ugly). I would suck if I tried to analyze our zone strategy, but I am going out on a limb and saying that it is going to be a good thing when at all times either Oden or Joel will be at center. Frye just was not good enough at the 5 spot. You need to break all this stuff down for me Dave. Thinking for myself is too hard.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 9, 2008 1:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we need a Kobe stopper as our final Championship piece.

I am enjoying what a team of committed, talented defenders are doing in Boston. And I am surprised at how substantial Posey’s role seems to be have become in the playoffs. I want one of those. He’d be our best defender after Greg (future repeat DPOY), I think.

I also think that LMA and Broy will be very special defensively alongside Greg. And I expect that Martell can develop into a better than adequate defender against the league’s offensive superstars.

And, much as it hurts me to admit Nate might have been on to something all along, Jarrett might become less frustrating to me playing his hard nosed defense among those listed above. He may well blossom in the same sort of synergistic way ( I didn’t say culture) that made Nate’s squads far more defensively special than the sum of their individual parts would have led one to expect. Though playing alongside the Glove didn’t hurt. Jarrett certainly has Nate’s (and my) appreciation for his consistent effort and smarts on D. Steve’s also okay by me defensively, especially when helped by his nieghbors. He seems to be a good help defender as well.

But I want a stopper. A Posey or a Bowen at their prime.

Who you ask? I fear that the mindset for ferocious effort needed is either obvious by 19- or it doesn’t exist. So Batum makes me nervous, though I trust KP to really know. I guess Westbrook would be my favorite, though he is more of a CP stopper with a little s, not my Kobe/LeBron type STOPPER. What about Brandon Rush? What about trading into next year’s lottery instead and baking some more?

Greg, LMA, Martell, Broy, Joel and my Wingbreaker. Add Steve and Rudy and eight of our rotation players are or will be solid defensively. And this is without additional KP upgrades.

If we get that one guy, we might be one of the best defensive teams in NBA history.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

by Ojala John on May 9, 2008 2:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We actually have our Kobe stopper.

Check out how well Steve Blake has done when assigned to guard Byrant. Can’t explain why, as he doesn’t look to match up well with Kobe, but he seems to get the job done.

by timg56 on May 9, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Martell's defense is better than Brandon's

He is the most underrated defender on the team and I think he will end up being a great defensive player over the course of his career.

by BlazerD on May 10, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't form in the wet sand, no you don't form at all

1. I only watched five or six games this year, so my thoughts would just be the regurgitations of what I’ve read here. And why regurgitate others’ thoughts when I could just wait for people to produce them here themselves?

2. Martell and LMA. I’m drinking the Coach Nate Kool-Aid on this one, but I do think that Martell could develop into something formidable on the defensive end: he’s got the bulk and strength to keep bigger guys like Maggette out of the lane and to hinder and knock off-balance smaller ones like Ginobli; he’s long and has great leaping ability, letting him sag off of smaller, quicker players but still able to contest the jumper; his lateral quickness is decent - not great - but it doesn’t need to be if he’s funneling his toughest defensive assignments to Greg and Pryz waiting hungrily in the middle.

As for LMA, he’s got the physical tools, and he’s a gym rat who soaks up coaching like a sponge. With his drive and a coach nationally respected for his defensive coaching acumen guiding his development, I see no tangible reason LMA can’t develop into an All-NBA post defender in the mold of Sheed or TD.

3. Just because it’s the prevailing opinion doesn’t make it invalid—we need a defensive upgrade at the 1. The NBA is filled with wing players who can score; they’ll get theirs, but they won’t consistently single-handedly win games unless it’s Kobe or LeBron. A penetrating PG causes all kinds of havoc for us though, and I’m not talking about CP or DW or Parker, the guys you have to specifically game-plan for because they’re straight-up awesome. I’m talking about Tyronn Lue and Jannero Pargo and players of their ilk: guys who, against this team as currently constructed, are gonna drive the lane and get our bigs in foul trouble while setting up their shooters for drive-and-kicks.

4. Perhaps I’m a homer, and I wouldn’t go as far as Ojala John’s final line, but I think we’ll throttle teams on the defensive end. Oden will be one of the best defensive bigs in NBA history, and as I stated above, I think LMA will become one of the premiere defensive PFs in the league. Martell won’t be a lockdown defender, but he’ll pose problems for even elite scorers. Broy will only be elite when we need him to be - channeling the offense through him and asking him to exert full effort on D is daunting - but he WILL be elite when we need him to be; he’s got the headiness, the physical ability, and the desire. And if Blake is the weakest defender in the crew, then I almost pity the other teams.

Not to mention that an underrated aspect of defense is rebounding. We will straight-up pound teams on the defensive boards in the years to come. I will not be surprised to see this be an even better rebounding team than our 1999-2002 edition.

by BlazersOrBust on May 9, 2008 3:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say the same thing

Which is probably because we have watched a combined 10 games this year.

by rmcdougall on May 9, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great point on the rebounds.

If we allow a very average shooting percentage, but kill it on the defensive glass, then the upshot end result is Very Good Defense.

No second chances = bad times for the opponent, no matter what they’re shooting!

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 9, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me Too

I don’t know enough about defense to form an opinion. I am afraid if I chimed in, I’d just be repeating stuff I read here or on Oregonlive. Most of the games I watched this year was in a 4 inch by 4 inch window. Roy had that one nice block in that one game, and I read that Webster is actually working on his defense. I wish Sergio would spend the summer with a defense and shooting coach. That’s really all I can contribute.

"Reality is for people who can't handle Blazers Edge." - MiledAnimal

by tominhawaii on May 9, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I´m alfred too

if I chimed in, repeating or not.

Since I know that you like the rice with milk, below the door I put a brick.

by amlmart1 on May 10, 2008 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I spot the BOT ^

BTW, I believe in the article you are referencing Justice Potter Stewart’s comment on obscenity, not porn.

Anywho, I think Greg and LMA can be a pretty formidable defensive front court. I think that LMA can defend players out to the 3pt line and can handle guarding finesse PF’s like Dirk and Pau as well as C’s like Okur. Greg will own the low block on D.
I’d like a stopper at the 3 that can defend PG’s a la Bowen, Marion, Artest. Maybe Josh Childress or Brandon Rush can do this?

By the way, If we trade 2nd rounders up or trade down from 13, I’d like to get Rush. He is a defensive 3 who can hit the three and has good bball IQ.

I’d rather have a lockdown defender at the 3 and a scorer at PG to play the Monta to Roys Baron Davis.

I want a super -quick guard that is an at least competent defender.

Blazer's fan since '84, Currently exiled in Tennessee and North Carolina

by HurraKane212 on May 9, 2008 5:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

funny event at the Supreme Court

In the early 1970s when major obscenity cases were being ruled on at the Supreme Court, the nine justices all got together and viewed a bunch of porn in order to help them draw definitions of what constitutes obscenity. A very humorous picture: nine old men watching porn together.

Where have all the flowers gone?

by bilingual octopus on May 9, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call that

Every other tuesday at my house.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 9, 2008 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Either you are getting funnier by the day

or I need to quit drinking at work. That was good (as was the Oden ugly comment above).

by timg56 on May 9, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Television is my mentor

And I don’t even have cable anymore.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 9, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best defense

is a good offense:

  • When Greg is scoring inside on putbacks and grabbing every rebound
  • When LaMarcus and Martell are taking it to the hole instead of settling for outside jumpers
  • When opponents have to play honest D instead of double-teaming because they have to respect all our players

then we will shoot a higher percentage and opponents will be starting their offense from behind the baseline instead of snagging long rebounds and beating our players down the court for easy buckets.

by MiledAnimal on May 9, 2008 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's what D'Antonio believes anyway.

Can’t say I’d agree with him.

by timg56 on May 9, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

D'Antonio? Who's he?

Wait! My Poet Muse is striking… Yes! I will entitle this: “D’Antonio” (with apologies to Laura Elizabeth Richards).

D’Antonio D’Antonio
Was tired of going homio
Each year it was true
He lost to the crew
From the hamlet known as San Antonio.

D’Antonio D’Antonio
Rode off on his polo ponio
And found the Big Whammy
In the town of Miami
Faking a sore knee alonio.

D’Antonio D’Antonio
Said if you will be my ownio
We’ll win with you
A title or two
And the Spurs will quickly begonio.

Oh nonio D’Antonio
You’re time has come and gonio
The Spurs hacked your Shaq
He couldn’t get back
Again your Suns have been pwnioed.

D’Antonio D’Antonio
Uttered a dismal moanio
And went off and hid
Or I’m told that he did
In a Midwest Chicagical zonio.

by MiledAnimal on May 9, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Excellent!

"We comin along." Travis Outlaw

by annthefan on May 9, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not bad.

Not bad at all.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 9, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that worked for Denver

and Golden state, and soon to be the Lakers.

by NWfan on May 9, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Webster

I think Webster has very good defensive capabilities. Not only is he coming along on the defensive end mentally, and has great physical skills, but he can also force a LeBron to run though screens on the offensive end. Over a seven game series, I bet LeBron will get tried of getting blind-sided by Oden, not to mention that his 3 point shooting could keep a good defensive wing out of the paint and from messing with the twin tower’s post game. The Web-Slinger isn’t very far away from being exactly what we want from a 3.

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on May 9, 2008 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Reality check

10 Mar
Lebron: 24pts 10rbs 11a 1st 2bs James Notches 17th Triple Stack of Career
Webster: 7pts 10rbs 0a 0st 0bs

by spencerbutte on May 9, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one said Webster will be Lebron....

Also 24pts is like 6 off of his average.

KP: You know Mike Rice, Mike Barret you've both been very valuable to us this season. But I'd still trade you both for a couple of 2nd round draft picks.

by Dheepan on May 9, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What......

Dheepan is hot. Damn. Quit giving bloggers a good name.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 9, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both games:

I think a triple-double overshadows the six points but…...both meetings tell the full story:

10 Mar Cavs WON 88-80
Lebron: 24pts 10rbs 11a 1st 2bs James Notches 17th Triple Stack of Career
Webster: 7pts 10rbs 0a 0st 0bs

30 Jan Cavs WON 84-83
Lebron: 37pts 14rbs 4a 2st 2bs
Webster: 7pts 2rbs 0a 0st 0bs

Remember we are talking D here and who brought it.

by spencerbutte on May 9, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, your stats show Webster's improvement.

I just a little over a month, Martell lowered the points Lebron James scored against him by 13 points. Lebron Freaking James.

On January 17th, Bruce Bowen held Lebron James to 27 points, 9 rebounds and 7 assists.
On February 7th, Shane Battier held Lebron James to 32 Ponits, 7 Rebounds, 6 assists.
On February 13th, Bruce Bowen held Lebron James to 39 points, 6 rebounds and 9 assists.
On February 19th, Shane Battier held Lebron James to 26 points, 13 rebounds and 11 assists.

These are possibly the two best defensive wings in the league. While January 30 wasn’t great, I’d take Martell’s March 10th defensive game against Lebron James any day of the week.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 9, 2008 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you would

Take Martell’s March 10th defensive game against Lebron James any day of the week.
Your discounting assists. You only get an assist when your teammate scores at least 2 pts.
Average stats for LeBron: 30 pts + 7.2a (X2) = 44.4 pts
Average stats for Webster: 10.7 pts + 1.2a (X2) = 13.1 pts
Difference = 31.3 pts

10 Mar for LeBron: 24 pts + 11a (2X) = 45 pts
10 Mar for Webster: 7pts + 0a = 7 pts
Difference = 38 pts

by spencerbutte on May 9, 2008 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

this just in

LeBron James good at basketball, difficult to defend. Film at 11.

by abdelnaby on May 10, 2008 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought we were talking about defense.

I will gladly grant that Martell’s offensive game was bad that night. But point differential between the two players does not really argue defense.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 10, 2008 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Total output: D and O

You have to take the total effort into account when rating a player’s D.
A good defender tries to wear down the opponent. Tries to work him a both ends.
At the end of the game, the DELTA will effect the score on both sides.
If you put in SO much effort just to hold your opponent to his averages, but
you lower your own, at the end of a game…. you have created a minus for your team in the final score.

That DELTA in the games with the CAVS was close to being the deciding difference in who won [if I could learn how to multiply 11a (2X) correctly].

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am convinced.

Lebron James is better than Martell Webster.

I think your argument would hold more weight if compared to someone else. Because, everyone “creates a minus” when playing against Lebron James. Make K[xxx}e would make the DELTA even, but those two don’t play defense against each other until the last couple of minutes of the fourth quarter, so I would think that it hardly counts.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 10, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time for a "new-Sheriff-town"

those two don’t play defense against each other until the last couple of minutes of the fourth quarter
That is exactly why I feel that any new players we acquire [draft (my choice) or trade] are chosen with LOCK-DOWN defense potential.

SF is a key position with all the good scorers at SF and SG to have that big D strength. I won’t give you my usual pitch at this point. (Many of you are expecting it.)

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A LOCK-DOWN defender

doesn’t have to steal energy from his offensive output to neutralize the opponent. By using his BB-IQ, natural quickness, and long wingspan he can meet or exceed his averages and have a positive DELTA.

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no problem acquiring a lockdown defender at the SF Position.

The problem is the same one we have with Przybilla at center though. Shane Battier only scores 9.3 points per game. Bruce Bowen gets even less at 6.0 points per game. Those players with lockdown defensive ability are usually offensive liabilities. And Nate, despite being known as a defensive minded coach, doesn’t often give minutes to one dimensional players.

The ones who aren’t one-dimensional are future Hall-of-Famers. And there aren’t too many of those available at a price we can afford. Will your favorite pick be that Hall-of-Famer? Could be. But getting him does not necessarily make Webster expendable yet. That’d be counting our chickens before they hatched.

Granted, Webster isn’t exactly tearing it up at either end of the floor, but if we’re going on potential, he still has a lot of time to meet it. One of the other posters had made the point that we did draft Webster because of his defensive potential. It hasn’t been realized yet. It may never be. But, he is still a year younger than LaMarcus Aldridge. There’s a lot of time left for him. Will he be perfect? Probably not. Will he be better than he is now? Most likely. Will he fit what the Blazers are looking for? We’ll see.

If he does get traded before he gets better, so be it. I’ll still cheer for him, unless he goes to the L[xxx]rs, then he will be booed soundly.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 10, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pease read my other posts

I think I have found a payer that has the offensive potential as well as the Lock- down potential.

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes.

You’ve identified a payer with potential in all areas of the game.

Then again, Dave’s baby has potential in all areas of the game.
Shmotential.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 10, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shmotential?

“And we’re gonna need at least ONE position to be a good TEAM defender, and a secure man defender.
That doesn’t mean a threat-neutralizing shut-down individual defender;
we just need the 3 to play off of Oden and Roy’s defensive fundamentals,
and be the link that turns their roles as defensive anchors into a Defensive Team.
Think along the lines of, say, Tayshaun Prince, or Kevin McHale.”
This is your thinking on it?

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe.

But potential has a lot of ifs. That’s why I wouldn’t be devastated if Webster was traded. I have seen a lot of potential come through Portland. Not much of it has been realized. Travis Outlaw is the rare exception. Brandon Roy had skill when he got here. So did Lamarcus, So does Oden. Their “potential,” so to speak, is getting better than they already are. Webster’s potential, and for that matter, Sergio’s and McRoberts, is that he gets good.

Is Batum good or is he potential? At 19, I’m thinking its potential. Does he have the patience to wait at the end of our bench for 5 years to see if that potential plays out? That I don’t know.

I’m not against getting the guy. I’m just not sold on him.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 10, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Batum is potential

Picking at 13 is all about potential. 10 years ago, drafts were full of Seniors from good college factories. When Webster was chosen coming out of High School, the NBA was competing with Duke and other college for potential talent.
Today, the Blazers generally get a one year flash of experience before having to decide on player.
The problems for the NBA are also compounded in Europe. The European Teams are offering meaningful money and locking up the better young talent in long term contracts. Add to that every Euro is now worth $1.50 of our currency.

Bottom line, we are only a little removed from competing for quality players with colleges and European teams. All of the players in the draft have some degree of “Potential” associated with them.
Picking from a batch of 19 year olds with 13th pick – all about potential.

by spencerbutte on May 10, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defensive maturation

I know this isn’t really an original thought, but there’s no such thing as a Kobe stopper. The only thing that’s going to stop him is Father Time—and we’ve got a few years yet before he starts playing.

As someone above said, I think Jarrett Jack could very well develop into a great 2nd team defensive stopper, ala Greg Anthony. (He’ll probably never be a starting point guard unless he learns to deal with his emotions.)

Travis could be great too, but needs to get smarter/wiser and get the defensive schemes burned into his brain.

Agree about B-Roy—underrated defender.

I have a feeling Martell is going to be gone by the end of next season, if not sooner. Call it a hunch.

Which leaves us with the biggest question, which has been the biggest question for some time, and will continue to be until it’s resolved—who’s going to be the starting point guard of the future?

He’s got to be a good one on one defender, with the ability to pressure the other team’s point, and get the ball out of his hands—something we didn’t do well this year.

I think we’ll be at least decent, if not very good at all other positions, but it all starts at the point.

by Heizer on May 9, 2008 10:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dave? Who's Dave?

Okay, you weren’t gone THAT long. But I was just thinking that there are so many regular fanposters now posting great fanposts that it’s not such a big deal anymore when you take a walkabout. This site is almost running itself now. Nice job, Dave!

by MiledAnimal on May 9, 2008 10:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dave's not here.

“No, man – it’s ME, Dave! I got the stuff! Now let me in!”

“Dave?”

“Yeah, man – DAVE.”

“Dave’s not here.”

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 9, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol....I love that bit!!

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 9, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

'Ere ya goo.

1. After the two big men, who’s the best defender on this team? If you prefer to pick one frontcourt and one backcourt defender to highlight that’s fine too.

I’d say Brandon Roy. He seems most immune to the occasional brain fart
that we see from our other decent-minutes guys: LaMardridge, MarWeb, Blake, JJ, Trout, and Sergio.
The only other two guys seeing decent minutes (JaJo & Frye) are more consistent, like Roy,
but they don’t see nearly as many minutes, nor as stiff assignments, as Roy.
On top of that, our Team Defense really took a step forward this past season;
as the team’s leader and Nate’s floor avatar, Roy deserves credit for that.

And let’s not forget, he just finished his second year!
For him to NOT be mistake prone on defense (in addition to being the team leader) is insane.

2. Which player currently on the squad has the best chance to develop into a good defender and why?

MarWeb.
First of all, even though I put him on that brain-fart list in the answer to question #1,
that’s based much less on this past season than on the previous seasons;
in all facets of his game, I’m still struggling to see MarWeb’s performance this past season
on its own merits rather than laboring under the many-seasons impression I have of him.

Also, he IS young, younger than JJ, Blake, and Trout, and his room to improve defensively is still big,
probably greater than anyone except Sergio, and unlike Sergio, MarWeb’s already shown improvement.

Lastly, his raw defensive material coming out of high school was a HUGE reason why we zeroed in on him.
Remember, once we got into the “we have our point guard and we need a shooting guard” mindset,
Gerald Green was the obvious front-runner for us, but we ended up gravitating to Martell for two reasons:
Martell didn’t restrict tryouts to solo showings (like GerGer did), and he was a much better defender.
Where is Gerald Green now? Not in this discussion; Webster is, and his defensive potential is a big reason why.

3. Outside of the center position, which position is going to be the most critical to our defensive success in the coming years? Where do we need a great defender to balance the pivot men?

Small Forward.
It’s not Power forward, simply because we know who The Man is there (LaMardridge),
and I just don’t see his defense ever being a selling point of his. That’s not to say we’re resigned to him
being a defensive liability; he CAN (and, as The PF, must) become defensively consistent and dependable,
especially with Oden to play off of, but I don’t see him as a key SOURCE of good defense, just a PART of it.

And, with my confidence in Roy and Oden’s given role, I see those two as anchors to great team defense.
To turn those anchors into a cohesive defensive TEAM, we need another key defensive link
to be in the range between Oden and Roy; you can’t tie those two individuals together into Team Defense
from the point guard position. (And yes, this view does kinda let Rudy off the hook, letting him be
Brandon Roy’s co-guard without his possible defensive shortcomings being a dealbreaker.)

Simply put, a forward has to play off of the team-leader role of Roy AND the denfensive anchor of Oden
in order to turn their qualities into Team Defense, and I don’t think LMA’s that kinda guy. So the 3 it is.

4. How good do you see us being defensively as we inch into our prime years?

Great.
For as young as we’ve been the past few seasons, we’re way less prone to Bad Defense than we should be.
Defense (and the politics of fouls) are what most takes several years (of major minutes) for players to learn,
and for everyone on this team except Blake and Joel, those years are still to come.
Throw in a disciplinarian, defense-minded coach, and players who listen to him,
including the player’s leader (Roy) being pretty much The Right Hand Of Nate,
and the likelihood of these young guys becoming a scary defensive unit are quite high.
Actually that’s always the case for a young team, that they should be a much better defensive team
a few years down the road than they are right now; it’s just that for these Blazers, “right now”
isn’t BAD, like it normally is for young teams.

The young team defensive equation of “BAD + Improves with time” is something else
when you take the “BAD” out of the equation, if the coach teaches defense and the players listen.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 9, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dee-fense *clap clap clap*

1. After the two big men, who’s the best defender on this team? If you prefer to pick one frontcourt and one backcourt defender to highlight that’s fine too.

Uhhh. Jones and Martell, maybe. They’re both maybe a little better than average at this point. Jones doesn’ t have the speed of elite defenders but he’s crafty. Martell seems a little slow laterally and just in general, but I used to think the same about Battier, who’s my runner up DPOY this year. LMA and Roy are overrated defenders by Blazermaniacs. They’re not good.

2. Which player currently on the squad has the best chance to develop into a good defender and why?

LMA should be a good defender—he’s got the physical tools, but he needs to learn technique and patience. He gets in foul trouble whenever he tries to play defense since he plays defense with his hands. LMA and Oden should watch nothing but Duncan guarding the basket by extending and using his length. Martell’s still improving and could end up being a good defender.

3. Outside of the center position, which position is going to be the most critical to our defensive success in the coming years? Where do we need a great defender to balance the pivot men?

We need a good wing defender so Brandon doesn’t have to work too hard on that end. We also need a good point guard on the ball defender to deal with the plethora of elite pgs in the west. Both would be great, but one or the other should work too—you can cover for one weak defensive area of the three (point, wing, interior) using team schemes, but you can’t cover up for two weak areas.

4. How good do you see us being defensively as we inch into our prime years?

Depends. You can have good individual defenders without being good defensively—look at Denver. A lot depends on coaching and team culture. Folks around here are assuming too much of Oden. Let’s see if he can learn to play defense without fouling 10 times in 20 minutes like during summer league before we start handing him DPOY trophies.

by howlingfantods on May 9, 2008 11:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great ending point.

Even if Oden is the next Marcus Camby (defense-wise), that doesn’t automatically make the Blazers a good defensive team.

Solid.

[ golf clap ]

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 9, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately...

... people continually ignore the fact that Denver is a good defensive team. They were 9th best in points allowed per possession despite having a total of 1 good defender.

Its true that Denver threw in the towel and stopped trying against the Lakers (they gave up an awful 113 pts per 100 possessions) but for most of the season Camby singlehandedly made them well above average on D.

Oden could have that same type of impact. We’ll see.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 9, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Denver's decent defensive rating

was a product of playing a fundamentally unsound gambling forced turnover based defense. The idea was to take away as many possessions as possible, which leads to a not-bad stat as far as points per 100 possessions is concerned.

The problem is that type of defense is only ok in the aggregate, and works well only against bad teams. If you want to run up your scores against the Wolves or the Heat, this is not a bad way to go. If you want need to get stops against a quality playoff opponent to protect a lead or to come back while training in double digits, this won’t do much for you.

They didn’t give up or stop trying—it’s just that their system’s built to beat up on Memphis, not to face off against a top team (and a top executing team) like the Lakers.

by howlingfantods on May 9, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very interesting theory

So you are suggesting that teams that rely on forcing turnovers won’t do well in the playoffs. I hadn’t really thought that way before, but it certainly sounds plausible. Good stuff.

How would be test such a theory?

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 9, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was fascinating

Great comment. I’d always wondered how come Denver’s solid points-per-possession mark never really translated to them being a good defensive team in my mind. This makes perfect sense. Thanks.

by BlazersOrBust on May 9, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watch them play

Camby always leaves his man to go for any shot attempt even if impossible to block. Denver had a below average defense the last 3 months of the season. The Laker series was just a continuation of their pitiful D.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on May 10, 2008 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

D

1) After the 2 big men, we don’t have any outstanding defenders. However, I think Roy, Jones and Aldridge and Webster are all solid. I’d probobly say Aldridge and Roy are the best of that group, though neither is great (yet).

2) LMA, Webster and Roy call all develop into very good defenders.

3) I’ll agree with howling that we could use an excellent wing defender, but the number one thing we need is improved PG defense.

4) Very good. This was not a bad defensive team this season. It was just below average (17th in points allowed per possession). Add Greg Oden, get improvement from Roy and Aldridge and upgrade at the PG position- this team CAN be an excellent defensive team. No guarantees, but the potential is certainly there.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 9, 2008 11:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

1. After the two big men, who’s the best defender on this team? If you prefer to pick one frontcourt and one backcourt defender to highlight that’s fine too.

Maybe Jones or LaFrenz. Jones was limited by his knee, but he seems to understand defensive rotations and where players are supposed to be better than most of his teammates. He also has a long reach, which helped him get several key blocks during the season. We didn’t get to see much of Raef, but he’s a pretty decent defender and shot blocker. Were he to be utilized more, I think Blazer fans would appreciate him for what he brings defensively.

2. Which player currently on the squad has the best chance to develop into a good defender and why?

Aldridge maybe has the best chance, mainly because of his combination of size, reach and quickness. He’s often been compared to Rasheed. If he becomes even half the defender Wallace is, he will be above average.

I agree with folks who think Webster will continue to improve on defense. I thought he made leaps and bounds this year, from last. I also wouldn’t write off Jack. I don’t know about Brandon. I think he might become something like Kobe lite, in that he can be an above average defender and a top scorer both. I don’t see him becoming as good as Bryant defensively, only because Bryant has better physical tools. For right now, I don’t want Roy having to carry anymore of the load for this team than he already is.

3. Outside of the center position, which position is going to be the most critical to our defensive success in the coming years? Where do we need a great defender to balance the pivot men?

I think team defense is going to be more important than significant improvement devensively at any single position. As you point out, we likely have a dominant defender at the most important position, with a very good defender backing him up. How many teams can anchor a second unit with as good a defensive center as Joel? Rather than pick a position, I’d like to acquire a player capable of playing good to great defense at three positions, preferably someone quick enough to bother guys like Parker and Paul and strong enough to shut down most 2’s and 3’s. (Tom suggests getting Ron Artest in another post. As far as skill set goes, Artest would be perfect.)

4. How good do you see us being defensively as we inch into our prime years?

I haven’t seen the season ending stats, but didn’t Portland finish the year ranked in the top third defensively? Worse case I see us being a top ten defensive team every year. My expectations are top 5 or 6 at least.

by timg56 on May 9, 2008 1:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on LmA

but I hope he is allowed to just focus on offense for the most part. Same with Roy. The thing with Artest is… when I heard he could go to Denver I just about cried.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 9, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we were in the top 3rd in points allowed per game...

... but we look better than we are because we play at such a slow pace.

In terms of per possession stats, we were around the middle defensively. Not horrible, but plenty of room for improvement.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 9, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny this should come up.

Coming purely from a statistical point of view here(I live in Chicago and couldn’t watch many games).
I’ve spent the last couple of days massaging various defensive stats to try to come up with a formula that says that Kevin Garnett is the best defender in the league. I won’t bore you with all the details except to say that I’ve been incorporating Defensive Boards, Blocks, Steals, Personal Fouls Committed, Offensive Fouls Drawn, Individual Defensive +/, and Team Defensive Efficiency. The only system I’ve come up with so far that spits out Garnett at the top, says that Jack is our best defender PERIOD, and that is because his defensive +/ is the best on the team and he has a good rate of steals. Keep in mind the same formula says that Allen Iverson is the 3rd best defender in the league AHEAD of Marcus Camby.
For my money, though just looking at all the stats in front of me, I would say Roy is the best after Pryz. With his high steal rate, moderate rebound and foul rates, and good propensity to draw charges, the gut feeling says go with him. Of course, the best gut feeling when measuring defense comes from actually getting to watch the games….

Standing in Chicago, eyes looking west.

by jnstarbird on May 9, 2008 1:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jack on D

I would agree with most people’s assesments that Jack is not a “lock down” defender that can be put on an island with the other team’s best wing player and shut him out of the game. He is one of our better team defenders though. He understands the concepts of team defense that Nate is employing on the court and forces his man into the areas where he can get help. Many times this past year he has looked bad because he has funneled his man to an area and his help is not there.

I am not surprised that a formula trying to determine who is a good defender would have Jack near the top of our team last year.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on May 10, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoops.

I made a mistake on the page and gave Jack his OVERALL +/- instead of his defensive, lol. So in fact, by the aforementioned “KG” formula, he is in fact 5th behind LaMa and ahead of Trout. My bad.

Standing in Chicago, eyes looking west.

by jnstarbird on May 14, 2008 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed that and was going to ask you about that

Nah, I’m just playin’. I appreciate your honesty. Thanks.

"Reality is for people who can't handle Blazers Edge." - MiledAnimal

by tominhawaii on May 14, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense wins

but what kind of defense…team defense. Great individual defenders can cover for weak team defenders but not completely. We showed during our streak that we can play good team defense. Having a great defnder at cneter never hurts especially in defense on the perimeter. That is because our perimeter guys can focus on defending the outside shot and only have to funnel driving players to the big men. That is an easier task than stopping both driving and shooting.

I think James jones is our greatest under-rated defender. He stopped so many fast break with good fouls. He was also good at blocking from behind. But Roy is just as competent.

As for stopper defenders, you don’t truly need one since no one can shut down the really excellent scorers. all you can do is contain them and make them take really diffiucult shots. For example LBJ is getting shut down by Boston cause they are double triple and even quadruple teaming him when he drives into the lane. And LBJ isn’t passing to an open man (or mare accurately the other cavs can’t swing the ball to the oepn guy). But my point is no single defender can shut down the best scorers of the league.

by NWfan on May 9, 2008 2:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

answers...

1. Brandon Roy – His lockdown on Joe Johnson in that home game against Atlanta on the final play was enough said by the MVP.

2. Travis Outlaw – His length and athleticism can turn into a great defender. He already is one of our best shot blockers coming from off the ball. I think it’s just his lateral quickness to stay with guys that could improve.

3. Small forward – This team needs a Shane Battier type player at SF and we’ll be good to go.

4. This team can be scary good defensively if it stays healthy. I’d love to see us go with a front court of Oden and Joel for a defensive spot. Who on earth would try to go into the lane with those two protecting the hoop? SCARY. If Oden could develop a trustworthy post game, I’d love to see some time with those two on the floor.

by alex42083 on May 10, 2008 12:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good answers...

I agree right down the line.

by spencerbutte on May 11, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I can sum this one up

The key ingredient is…...lime

See what happens when you do crossword puzzles

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 13, 2008 3:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mine is Always Cilantro

I call it my “signature finish.”

"Reality is for people who can't handle Blazers Edge." - MiledAnimal

by tominhawaii on May 13, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember how you said

you worried that no one would get a lame reference? That was my version of it

key lime

Very punny

PS Cilantro is good

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 13, 2008 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awe Yeah

I watch way too much Food Network. I should have caught that.

"Reality is for people who can't handle Blazers Edge." - MiledAnimal

by tominhawaii on May 13, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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