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When is enough enough?

I have a Blazers Edge t-shirt. The back reads: "2007-2008: Who steps up? 2008-2009: Which free agent? 2009-2010: What's your ring size?!" We Blazer fans seem to think that's pretty accurate. If so, why are so many posters so desperate to upgrade at PG and SF?

If Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez turn out to be the outstanding players we think they will be, that means we'll have a Big Four, not just a Big Three. In that case, how much better do we have to get at PG and SF? Aren't a Big Four and several role players all we need to return the Larry O'Brien trophy to its rightful place in Portland?

The Blazer team that we hope will win a title or ten hasn't played one minute together yet because GO and Rudy haven't played.  We haven't seen what that team can do, and that team will need a couple of seasons together to grow into their games and learn how to play with each other.

Everyone talks about the wheeling and dealing Kevin Pritchard is going to do this summer, but he might surprise us by making no significant changes at all, preferring simply to add Greg and Rudy and give the team a year to grow and learn to play together and see what happens. After all, it's not like there are a plethora of SFs and PGs out there KP could get who would be an upgrade over our current SFs and PGs.

My view is that I'm fine with adding GO and Rudy to who we have on the team and letting the players grow together in 2008-2009. What's yours?

 

Poll
With Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez joining the team, do the Blazers really need to upgrade at PG and SF?
  • Yes
  • No
  • What's a plethora?

  204 votes | Results

7 recs | Comment 96 comments

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Comments

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Always have to keep improving

There are so many terrific teams that are not going away any time soon. Even if (as expected), Boston, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix and Dallas wrap up their runs in the next couple years, the Lakers are going to be extremely good until Kobe is no longer dominant (and that’s probobly ~5 years away). The Hornets, Jazz, Magic and Cavs aren’t going anywhere either. These teams are going to keep improving.

Then there are young teams out west that are rebuilding and stockpiling draft picks (the OKC Robber Barons for one).

If Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez reach their full potential, The Blazers may be able to win a title with Steve Blake at the point. You can’t think like that though. You have to be ready in the event that they do not reach their potential- if you have an opportunity to upgrade at any position, you have to do it.

It is NOT a foregone conclusion that this Blazer group wins a title. There are too many good teams out there and too much that could go wrong. Any move that increases the odds of bringing a title to Portland needs to be done.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 5, 2008 12:55 PM PDT   0 recs

Very nicely done Snake!

I’ll just add an emphatic ditto.

by TwoDeep on May 6, 2008 8:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Rudy becomes the force we all hope for

then a back court of Rudy and Roy will be all we need at guard for starters. Either can handle and another PG simply rests one of these (necessary of course). We are all amazed at the culture change this year but that culture change becomes strained when a bench player is not getting minutes that they would get on another team. We can indeed add more talent and grow but the real growth needs to take place for these four plus Frye, Joel and Blake playing together and learning how to feed off each other. That seems far more significant than trying to change players this year. Who do we add in 2009 as FA? Only KP knows but trust him when he says he knows. In the meantime I agree with Scotty that we have enough talent now for this coming year.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on May 6, 2008 1:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"Good enough" PG

If indeed Oden is healthy and comes even remotely close to seizing his potential and Rudy comes over (Red rover, red rover. let Rudy come over), we should not need to significantly upgrade either the SF or PG.

The big rub comes with having a “good enough” PG who complements Roy when Roy isn’t playing PG. Nate seemed to have more faith that Jarrett Jack was that “good enough” PG than I did, so if we add Rudy, will any of the existing PGs (Jack, Blake, & Sergio) reach the “good enough” level? Or is there a marginally better PG out there than we can land without disrupting the team too much?

I think the only way Nate won’t play Jack is if he isn’t on the team, but I am loathe to lose anyone but Jack, Wafer, Blake, Rodriquez, or McRoberts for a marginally better PG. Adding Oden and Fernandez could change the Blazers’ style or play somewhat (more running, please) and I’m not convinced any of our current PGs are “good enough” to run the fast break AND have the blessings/confidence of Nate.

by vcubed on May 5, 2008 1:46 PM PDT   0 recs

Jack will be traded

With Roy playing PG we won’t need 3 spares. Blake is good enough and Sergio has little or no trade value. Jack and the 13th pick plus some scraps will be traded for a top 5 protected first round pick from the future.

"Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis." - Bill Walton

by tominhawaii on May 5, 2008 5:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Alert the press!!!

TiH is talking basketball!!!!!! I guess he does have a little on-topic in him:)

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on May 5, 2008 7:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I've been working on not going OT

But it is pretty hard not too, when there are so many fanpost that are frequently on the same subject.

"Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis." - Bill Walton

by tominhawaii on May 5, 2008 8:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep.

"We comin along." Travis Outlaw

by annthefan on May 5, 2008 8:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah!

They keep talking about these “Blazers” guys. Who are they anyways?

In all seriousness, there does seem to be an awfully lot of diaries fanposts on who do we get?

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus

by T Darkstar on May 6, 2008 6:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I don’t have any problems with people writing fanposts. You can tell as people write more, that their grammar, spelling, and punctuation gets better. That part is great, it’s like we’re all junior reporters or writers. I’m just kind of done with the PG and SF discussions until we at least know our place in the draft. There is too much speculation about speculation and a ton of “if’s.” That’s why I go off topic. PG and SF posts is like a plain baked potato and my OT fanposts are the condiments.

"Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis." - Bill Walton

by tominhawaii on May 6, 2008 11:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bring on the bacon bits

salt, pepper, gobs of butter, and a dash of turmeric atop a fluffy baked SF/PG post.

by MiledAnimal on May 6, 2008 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But you are here and commenting on this!

(Glad you are).

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on May 6, 2008 1:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I also like all the sour cream, cheese and scallions. And sometimes Mr. inHawaii

provides us with patata croquetas or français frit potatos. I love potatos.

"We comin along." Travis Outlaw

by annthefan on May 6, 2008 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He alerted the press via bottle note

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 5, 2008 8:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

plus

i don’t want to speak for the other people clamoring for a new point guard or small forward, but it’s not so much that i would like to add another star quality player to make a Big 5 or anything like that, it’s more the type of role player that i would like to see playing SF or PG. If Martell was a lock down defender, I really wouldn’t care if he averages 18 points or 9. My issue is getting role players that would best fit around the Big 3 or 4, not how many stars are necessary to win a title. And if the team could acquire these role players who I feel would be improvements over the current assortment of talent, the team should do it.

by dp8039 on May 5, 2008 2:37 PM PDT   0 recs

Take a close look at Batum

I think you’ll find that unselfish role player.

I also think you’ll find a player that has the FULL package of physical skills and BB IQ needed at SF.

by spencerbutte on May 5, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Batum

I remember last year he was a hot choice for the Blazers pick at 6. Well, at least he will be a better player than Brewer.

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on May 5, 2008 3:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

batum

reading his scouting report on draftexpress and nbadraft.net, it seems like he’s a real head case. i would like to know that that’s settled before he plays for portland

by dp8039 on May 5, 2008 7:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Batum

I think he could be a decent choice if you are not expecting him to come over for another couple of years. He is the high risk, high reward type. He does appear to be a headcase right now as dp noted, but you are right, that if he did figure it out, work on his stroke, and put on some weight, he could be a Travis Outlaw with a more NATURAL basketball IQ. That being said, he may never figure it out.

by The Graduate on May 6, 2008 1:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I am with you here...

That is really my only qualm with Blake and the SF carousel. We need to find guys that complement each other.

by The Graduate on May 6, 2008 1:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Shooters!

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on May 6, 2008 1:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No need for change

When RUdy comes over and Greg Oden steps onto the basketball court, I envision a lineup and 5 back ups that could rival the top 10 of any team in the league. Starting Roy at point guard, either Webster or Fernandez at shooting guard, Jones at small forward and Aldridge and Oden in the post in pretty formidable. Then there is Steve Blake at the 1, Webster/Fernandez at the 2, Outlaw as small forward, Frye as back up 4, and Przybilla as center. The starters have power and Jones to hit open threes, the reserves have scoring punch with Outlaw and the SG, and veteran leadership in Blake and Przybilla. Channing Frye proved last year he could fill a role and stepped up when we needed him to. I could easily see Outlaw averaging 15 off the bench, with Roy and Aldridge putting in 20 apiece. Martell will get between 13-15 and Fernandez, as soon as he fully adjusts, could put up 12-16 depending on how he is affected by NBA defenders. If Oden records 15 and 10, with a couple blocks on top of it, I will be fully satisfied. Blake and Frye could also hit low double figures and Przybilla will chip in his steady consumption of rebounds. With that lineup, there are no real weaknesses and I would feel completely happy seeing that on the court.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people

by blazersfan50 on May 5, 2008 4:23 PM PDT   0 recs

WOW!

That team would average some 117 per game, and that’s not counting Jones, Joel, Raef, McRob etc.

by fat27 on May 5, 2008 9:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I mean... Why not??

The expression comes with a shrug and an air of self-entitlement.

Seriously. Why not get the best if the best is available in the draft? I dig (and I’m sure Paul Allen digs) rookie and second-year player contracts. One thing we can do through the draft is select a core of guys that are all going to peak at roughly the same time. Let’s face it. Oden is not going to peak (sheesh, let’s hope) for at least 3-4 years. That’s about what it would take for a PG drafted this year to achieve peak status. Seems like the same timeline to me. I could totally digg on the Blazers drafting our dear friend Mr. Rose. One could not ask for a more classic connotation: Derrick Rose playing at the Rose Garden. How could they ever change the name?

Where have all the flowers gone?

by bilingual octopus on May 5, 2008 4:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Not to hijack my own thread

but we could bring in Malik and convince Jalen to unretire…

by MiledAnimal on May 5, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Those guys aren't true Roses

They’re related to Pete Rose the notorious gambler.

Where have all the flowers gone?

by bilingual octopus on May 5, 2008 9:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

PG yes, SF no

If Oden and Fernandez does what they project to do are BIG IF’s. What if they don’t live up to expectations, at least for a few years. I don’t know if KP has to do much wheelin and dealin. this year, but the #13 is very important, and needs to be studied a lot because the Blazers won’t be drafting this low again for a long time. Starting PG or PF backup at #13 are both needed.

by blazerbill on May 5, 2008 5:36 PM PDT   0 recs

That's an excellent point

When a team is stuck in the lottery, they at least know they’re going to get serviceable players each year and maybe they’ll have a smart GM like KP or they’ll be lucky. Once you’re a playoff team or a contender, it’s tougher to be smart or lucky. After this draft, KP will mostly be looking to make trades to improve the team, and with Isiah no longer a GM, there’s one less sucker to bite on our trade bait. Thanks to KP’s skill, we have a lot of young, low-priced assets other teams want, so KP will be in a strong position to fill positional needs.

The #13 pick this year and some sweetener, if needed, may land us Russell Westbrook. Or maybe KP will take tominhawaii’s suggestion and trade it and Jarrett Jack for a higher pick. Whoever KP picks, I’m sure the team will show a net improvement.

by MiledAnimal on May 5, 2008 5:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wouldn't Westbrook be the obvious choice?

I mean, if Westbrook is available at the spot where we pick, that’s a no brainer isn’t it?

Where have all the flowers gone?

by bilingual octopus on May 5, 2008 9:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes.

How could you not love that guy. If the draft wasn’t so SG heavy he might go in the top five.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on May 6, 2008 12:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Our existing role players aren't the right kind

of role players. It’s not that we want all stars at every position, but we need defense from our 1, and someone to take the tough defensive assignments at the 2/3 so Roy doesn’t have to work too hard on that end. None of our PGs is better than below average defensively, and our SFs…. well, they’re not too bad, actually. Martell still could end up being what we need, but it’s not a sure thing.

Plus there is a huge benefit to be gained from getting the right type of veteran experience in a ballclub, above and beyond what they do on the court. Would Kedrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo have taken their massive leaps in their games this year if they didn’t have KG and Ray Allen to mentor them?

by howlingfantods on May 5, 2008 5:37 PM PDT   0 recs

Spinning off your thoughts...

...all the fervor over upgrading at PG has to do with defense. Assuming Oden, LaMarcus, et al can control the paint, teams will be looking more to exploit our weakest link: perimeter defense – unless we get a disruptor – a guy who can force the opponent to use a little more clock and have to resort to a second or third scoring option. We will have the weapons offensively. The next step is upgrading our armor defensively.

by Dr Dave on May 5, 2008 6:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Its funny

how we are more dissatisfied with out pointguards’ defense than with their offense. If you read the scouting reports of Jack and Blake form before they were drafted, defense was supposed to be a strong point of both players.

by trk on May 5, 2008 9:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hollinger thinks Jack's a good

defender too. Not sure what drugs he’s smoking.

I’m not even wanting a good defender at the PG to stop the Chris Pauls and Tony Parkers. Them guys are gonna get their stats. I’m just sick of our team just getting burned by scrubs with a little footspeed, like Tyronn Lue or Nate Robinson or Jannero Pargo.

by howlingfantods on May 5, 2008 11:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Rondo...

is huge for the Celtics and he can’t even shoot. I would love a cheap lock down defender who doesn’t turn the ball over very much. Westbrook might fit the bill, but is he a real upgrade over Blake?

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on May 6, 2008 12:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If we could get Rondo...

wow, I’d be all over that, but there is no way that Boston would let him go. I don’t even think you could package Rudy, the 13th pick, and Outlaw/Webster and get Rondo. That’s how much he is appreciated in Boston and by their management (not that the trade would be worth it for Blazers).

by The Graduate on May 6, 2008 1:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sick

Sick as in ewwww, not sick as in awesome. They can keep him.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 6, 2008 1:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you know

Rondo paints himself green, each year for Halloween, and then he goes as Lieutenant Kif Kroker?

"Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis." - Bill Walton

by tominhawaii on May 6, 2008 2:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The big question is

Not if the team should upgrade at PG, but when.

Next year they’ll be bringing two new major pieces into the picture. Priority number one is to get Oden established in a comfort zone and learn to play. Are the chances of the better with a current PG who knows the system integrating Oden, or with a brand new PG – rookie or veteran – who has to learn the system while Oden is playing in his first season.

I think there is a risk that you screw things up if you add too much new stuff to the soup.

Get Oden and Rudy working with team next year, then upgrade in 09.

by raoulduke on May 5, 2008 6:24 PM PDT   0 recs

Defensive PG

Is all we need as an upgrade to our lineup, one who can set up our offense and lock down or at least slow down the CP3s/D-Wills/Barons/Parkers of the western conference. We don’t need another marquee name, just a reliable role player who can defer offense to our big 3 and play solid team defense.

The sooner we have the PG position settled, all the better for Oden’s development. We don’t want to wait til 2010 to rework our combinations and chemistry.

by LMA on May 5, 2008 9:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Nah

We can upgrade the Point whenever we want. If Rose or Westbrook is available then we have to pounce on that fellas. And we gotta play em.

Where have all the flowers gone?

by bilingual octopus on May 5, 2008 9:32 PM PDT   0 recs

Westbrook!

It seems wierd to me that people are even talking about this. Westbrook is the obvious choice. Maybe if he had a better you tube video people would be more into him.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on May 6, 2008 12:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think he has you tube covered...

that’s not the problem. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaTm-QWyaUs

We would have to move up in the draft to get him though.

by The Graduate on May 6, 2008 1:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Youtube sucks these days

I wish editing equipment was only available to the competent. If you want to see 10 angles of 3 dunks and listen to the worst rap song ever created check out the preceding link. (no offense Graduate)

by begottenson on May 6, 2008 10:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense taken,

and I completely agree with you… it’s flat out exhausting.

by The Graduate on May 6, 2008 12:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You ask most GM's

if they’d consider adding Greg Oden and Rudy to their active roster a very productive off season and I think most all of the would enthusiastically nod their heads. I think we’re a little blase about the whole thing because we’ve had close to a year to get used to the idea.

How about we all step back and pretend we’re drafting them this year and get that new car smell back?

When I read this post I immediately wanted to reply with one word: Amen.

by LaughingJon on May 5, 2008 10:06 PM PDT   0 recs

Well, we can finally let go of even faint hope

of ever getting Chris Paul. After tonight he is officially a god in NO. He’d be stone crazy to think about leaving.

by raoulduke on May 5, 2008 10:17 PM PDT   0 recs

To answer the original question ...

My biggest disappointment with the team this season is how we got TORCHED by the opposing point guard night after night after night. When the Earl Watsons and Jennero Pargos of the league start to look forward to playing us, we have a problem. I don’t know that the addition of Oden or Rudolfo necessarily helps us in this regard. And if this is a problem in the regular season when we’re playing middling teams, what happens when we get to the playoffs and play Jordan Farmar in round 1, Deron Williams in round 2, Chris Paul in Round 3, and Rajon Rondo in the Finals? Well, the answer is we might not get past Jordan Farmar. So yes, I would like to see a significant defensive upgrade at the PG position. If that answer is Westbrook, then great. If the answer lies elsewhere, I hope we find it soon.

As for the SF position, we’re fine here. Webster is 21 freaking years old and has gotten better every year so far. I think I was playing drunken ultimate frisbee when I was 21, so I’m willing to cut the kid some slack. He is a great kid who has shown this year that he is willing to work hard and is a team player. There were previously questions about his attitude and his confidence. I think this year has gone a long way toward answering those, and only moreso when he’s 22, 23, 24, etc. And let’s say just for fun that he’ll keep getting better each year for the next 3 years before he reaches his peak in terms of production in the midst of the other great players on this team (i.e., there’s only so many shots to go around) ... We could be looking at a 16-18 pt, 6 rebound type player in 30 minutes a game. That’s not bad for a fourth or fifth option when you consider Roy, Aldridge, and probably Oden and Rudolfo might get the ball before him … Needless to say, we’re fine here. Let’s go get our PG and start winning some championships.

by bfan on May 5, 2008 10:46 PM PDT   0 recs

Farmar, Williams, Paul, & Rondo

Of those 4 PGs, Deron Williams is probably the only one that would worry a Roy/Rudy backcourt. The others are just to small and too short to defend against our guards. Regardless of whether they try to guard Roy or Rudy, they are going to be abused.

by trk on May 5, 2008 11:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Paul

I’m afraid I disagree. I think Paul’s torching of Roy/Rudy would outweigh the abusing he would get on D- if you watch CP he does a surprisingly good job on bigger guys. I agree he couldn’t guard Roy or Rudy but he’d still cause major problems.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 5, 2008 11:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Are you watching CP3 torture

Dallas and San Antone? This guy has a pretty good shot of shooting past Magic as the greatest PG of all time, and a top 10 all time if he plays the way he’s been playing this season for a full career. So you think Roy, a very good player but no all time great and a euro who may or may not pan out is gonna scare CP3?

by howlingfantods on May 6, 2008 1:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

CP3 is a just good player

He would be dangerous against any opponent. What I should have said is, I don’t think that a Roy/Rudy backcourt would have any special disadvantage against him that wouldn’t be worse against other backcourts we could field.

by trk on May 6, 2008 10:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, I guess I don't understand your point then.

I think BFan is saying (and I totally agree) that we think the major improvement we need to make is at defense from the PG position. You said that you thought that whatever defensive problems a Rudy/Roy backcourt would have, they would abuse the opposing backcourt. I think that’s unrealistically optimistic, to say the least, and I wouldn’t bet any money that things will shake out that way.

As we’ve seen so far with JKidd and Bowen trying to match up with CP3 (two perennial all-defensive team guys), inability to play tight defense on CP3 is pretty dispositive in terms of wins/losses. Barkley thought the Mavs could respond by having Kidd posting CP3, which they tried a few times, but the Hornets play an impressively disciplined quick switching defensive scheme and the Mavs were never able to take advantage of the CP3/Pargo small backcourt.

by howlingfantods on May 7, 2008 10:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bowen and Kidd are not offensive juggernaughts

I think that may be the key there. Get a tie between the two backcourts and win the games up front where we would have the advantage is what is being advocated.

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 7, 2008 10:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude. Watch the game before you comment.

Bowen has been guarding CP3. CP3 and Pargo have been guarding Tony Parker and Ginobili, who last I checked were supposed to be offensive juggernauts.

by howlingfantods on May 7, 2008 11:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Howl....

A point was made that any defensive liabilities that a backcourt of Roy and Rudy would present would be offset by the fact that no one would be able to guard them either…hence it would be a push. Your reply pointed out that Bowen and Kidd were getting torched which doesn’t disprove the original statement, since those guys aren’t know for their offense. So yeh…I watched the games but that isn’t the point is it? If I have this wrong somewhere…please let me know

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 7, 2008 11:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

An interesting thought, to be sure.

Does having a really good offensive backcourt negate the fact that you can’t play defense?

I think Nate would say not in a million years. You can’t simply outscore your opponent on your way to championship. Phoenix couldn’t do it. Dallas couldn’t do it. Golden State couldn’t do it. Denver couldn’t do it. etc …

To my original point, though—all I’m asking for is SOMEONE who can come in and not let Earl Watson put up 25 points on us. If Rudolfo is that guy, that’s great. If he’s not, then let’s keep looking. I’m just tired of lame-o point guards giving us the finger every night.

But I also agree that I don’t understand trk’s point … To think that any matchup with Chris Paul favors us is silly.

by bfan on May 7, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think what trk's point was

that nobody seems to be able to slow down CP …so a backcourt of Rudy/Roy wouldn’t be any worse off than anyone else …..defensively. That being said…Rudy/Roy may be able to score at will on CP/Pargo resulting in no advantage for either side. I am not sure that I agree with this idea but seemed like an interesting thought. However pointing out that Kidd was not effective trying to post up and take advantage of the smaller back court of CP/Pargo , to me, doesn’t really disprove it either…..that was my point and still is.

"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein

by 92wastheyear on May 7, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you're wrong.

Rondo is one of the peskiest defenders in the league at the PG position right now. I don’t know about Farmar’s defense, but he’s not a small guard, and he’s already really, really good.

The point though, is not that other guards will have trouble stopping us, it’s that we can’t stop anyone else. If you think Rudy is coming in as a lights out defender, I think you’re in for a rude awakening. For all the YouTube highlights we’ve seen, there hasn’t been much talk about his defense. This is my worry.

by bfan on May 6, 2008 8:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Rudy & Defense

Will Rudy start out as a great defender? That’s probably too much to expect of of him. The defensive system that Rudy’s team uses is pretty different from the systems that are used by most NBA teams. The type of players that he has been asked to guard are also pretty different from the point guards he might be asked to guard in the NBA. It will take time to adjust. However, does he have the physical tools tools to be an excellent defender? I think he does. Is he willing to play defense? He is. He just seems like the type of guy who, if we tell him to make defense his top priority, will practice and practice until he becomes a great defender.

by trk on May 6, 2008 10:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Name one

euroleague player who has come into the nba and has proven to be any better than average as a perimeter defender.

by howlingfantods on May 7, 2008 10:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good one.

I honestly couldn’t think of a single one, I forgot AK spent a couple of years in euroleague after the Jazz drafted him.

by howlingfantods on May 7, 2008 11:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually,

I question how good of a perimeter defender Kirilenko actually is. I have always seen him as an EXCELLENT help defender and due to his long arms, extemely effective in the passing lanes (Rudy might be able to do that as well). But, I remember few times, when Kirilenko actually shut down a major perimeter scorer. Someone help me out here because I don’t watch the Jazz, and I could be easily mistaken.

by The Graduate on May 7, 2008 1:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you're pretty close.

AK is known for energy, blocks, and steals—not incredible on-the-ball perimeter D.

by bfan on May 7, 2008 3:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely better than average

on TMac the last couple of years. Not Bruce Bowen good, and I still think it’s better to use AK as an undersized 4 playing help interior defense like he did pre 06-07, but he’s definitely pretty decent.

by howlingfantods on May 7, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know that much about Kirilenko either

but I seem to recall when he got his max deal he was known for disrupting passing lanes, getting steals, help defense, blocking shots, etc. I never heard of him shutting down anyone one-on-one. My Laker fan co-worker and I were talking today about the Laker-Jazz game the other night (which I didn’t see) and he said Kirilenko was on Kobe for a while, and he got into foul trouble.

by MiledAnimal on May 7, 2008 5:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs