Travis Outlaw should never be traded!
So everybody here thinks that Travis's value is high enough for a trade that would bring back someone that would help the Trailblazers make a title run? But i do not concur. Just looking at the stats, yes his value is high, but I do not believe that if we trade him, we will get a player that will help our team more in the long run.
First, lets take a look at the stats:
im not counting 2003-2004 since he only played in 8 games and played only 19 minutes. Looking at his first season in which he received decent playing time, here we go:
2004-2005: 59 Games, 2 Starts, 13.4 MPG, 5.4 PPG, 2.1 RPG, .6 APG, .5 SPG, .7 BPG, .66 TPG
2005-2006: 69 Games, 11 Starts, 16.7 MPG, 5.8 PPG, 2.7 RPG, .5 SPG, .4 SPG, .7 BPG, .54 TPG
2006-2007: 67 Games, 1 Start, 22.9 MPG, 9.6 PPG, 3.2 RPG, .8 APG, .9 SPG, 1.1 BPG, .99 TPG
2007-2008: 82 Games, 6 Starts, 26.7 MPG, 13.3 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.3 APG, .7 SPG, .8 BPG, 1.3 TPG
Now what do these numbers show you ask? To me, they show drastic improvement over a 4 year period. What else can you ask from a guy who was the 23rd pick out of high school in 2003?
What the numbers don't show, is the two game winners he hit this year. I'm sure every Trailblazer fan has seen, at least the highlights of, the Memphis game. Plus I hope that every Trailblazer fan has seen, at least the highlights of, the Atlanta game. He also delivered the block at the end of the Denver game. It kind of ruffles my feathers that Travis's block overshadows Brandon's block of Carmelo, but I will get over it, hopefully one day. So that is at least three games in which he won the game or helped secure the win.
I truthfully don't understand why I keep hearing all the talk of trading Travis and keeping Martell. Sure Martell can hit the three ball, but so can Travis if he needs to. Once again, let's look at the comparisons:
I'm only going to do the 2007-2008 season because it was the most meaningful for these discussions. Here we go:
Travis: 82 Games, 6 Starts, 26.7 MPG, 13.3 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.3 APG, .7 SPG, .8 BPG, .433 FG%, .741 FT%, .396 3FG%
Martell: 75 Games, 70 Starts, 28.4 MPG, 10.7 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 1.2 APG, .6 SPG, .4 BPG, .422 FG%, .735 FT%, .388 3FG%
Now when I look at those, i see that Travis is better, maybe not very much but still better, in every category with the exception of starts and minutes. Sure Travis was in his fourth full year and Martell was only in his third. But is it reasonable to say that Martell will get that much better? And Travis won't? I dont believe that Martell will be much better than a spot-up shooter in the NBA.
Plus, how many game-winning shots did Martell have? 0. How many game-clinching defensive stops did Martell have? 0.
Now don't get me wrong. I love Martell Webster. I was going nuts when he had that 24 point quarter. If I'm not mistaken, He was like 9 for 9 during. I'm pretty sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I hope and pray that KP will NOT trade Travis Outlaw. If he goes, who comes off the bench and provides the game-changing facials, yes I'm talking about his dunks over Rodney Carney, Pau Gasol, and the guy from Miami, I forgot his name because it's not Wade or Marion.
Travis Outlaw is the Trailblazers version of Manu Ginobili. Bench player that comes in to provide energy and game-changing results. I believe that one day he will be better than Manu.
So there you have it. My thinking with regards to Travis Outlaw. In my mind, he is untouchable. Unless New Orleans suddenly becomes a stupid franchise and offers CP3 for him.
Thanks to Dave for keeping up this great site. I love it!
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AnntheFan will love you forever for this.
I appreciate it too, but not quite in that way. :)
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
by T Darkstar on May 27, 2008 5:56 PM PDT 0 recs
Mr. easybig73 is my hero. May I call you easybig?
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 27, 2008 6:27 PM PDT
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of course you may.
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 27, 2008 6:37 PM PDT
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cause that's LOT easier
in fact EasierBig
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 27, 2008 6:57 PM PDT
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nice avator
Blake brings it up on the right, swings it to Webster on the elbow, he moves around the key and passes to the low left block for Aldridge, Aldridge jukes baseline, turns back in and finds Roy cutting down the seam, ROY THROWS IT UP AT THE RIM FOR ODEN WHO THROWS IT DOWN FOR THE TWO HANDED MONSTER JAM!!! BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!!! -Wheeler '08-'09
i can't wait
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 27, 2008 5:59 PM PDT 0 recs
reason?
why do you think outlaw should go before webster?
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 27, 2008 6:21 PM PDT
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2 reasons
1. Webster is smarter (IMO), so I think he has a better chance of fulfilling his potential.
2. If both reah their potential, Webster fits better with the team.
3. Both players are not consistent, but I think that Websterinconsistency is due to inexperience and Outlaw’s due to the quality of shot he usually takes.
I’d rather keep both, but I’d trade Outlaw if that brought Devin Harris, for example.
by Falcao on
May 28, 2008 10:25 AM PDT
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The Atlanta game winner
My favorite single moment of the season.
by Gargen on May 27, 2008 6:09 PM PDT 0 recs
Improvement
When I look at Travis Outlaw’s stats, I actually don’t see much improvement at all. He’s getting more minutes, and he is being given the ball more during those minutes, but his efficiency hasn’t changed much.
Year Pts/pos Assits/pos TO/pos TS%
2004-2005 1.07 0.12 0.13 .53
2005-2006 1.01 0.09 0.09 .49
2006-2007 1.00 0.08 0.10 .49
2007-2008 0.99 0.10 0.10 .50
Basically, he is touching the ball more and getting more shots, but he is not scoring any more efficiently than he was before. Just staying at the same level of production when usage rate increases could already be considered improvement, but it is not the huge amount of improvement that someone might expect based on per game numbers.
by trk on May 27, 2008 6:57 PM PDT 0 recs
Travis made a nice leap early this year
but it seems like he plateaued after that or even declined slightly as the season wore on. Plus his basketball IQ is never going to be as high as his vertical leap. I wonder if what we see is what we’re going to get from now on.
I’m not saying to trade him, because he’s definitely earned another season. I just want to see more improvement. If we don’t get it, then I’ll have no problem if KP trades him by next summer, because his value will never be higher.
You seem a little hallucinated with these comparisons.
by MiledAnimal on
May 27, 2008 7:09 PM PDT
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Basketball IQ
Travis doesn’t necessarily need to have a high basketball IQ. We already have one of the best in the league, Brandon Roy, in that category. He has already proved to be a clutch player in the NBA. I know we already have a Mr. 4th Quarter in Roy but does it really hurt to have two?
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 27, 2008 7:24 PM PDT
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The difference is...
This year’s stats came more from important pressure situations and less from garbage time. They also come more often against the other team’s first unit and less against their second. Travis did come off the bench, but most of those fourth quarter minutes were against starters.
His biggest improvement doesn’t show in the stat box though. His reliability (read: confidence and clutch play) went went through the roof.
by Gargen on
May 27, 2008 7:19 PM PDT
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and you know what
Wheel’s on his show today said that he is back in Portland working out, unlike last summer. Nice. Good jod Travis.
by RipCity on
May 27, 2008 7:45 PM PDT
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That IS good to hear!
That must have been the big news.
TO has two knocks. No BBIQ and the fact that he plays into shape. I seriously hate players that do that. then again, I imagine “in shape” is also a completely different definition than I might use because staying in top shape is seriously hard work.
Still hate it though.
So, TO is working on one of my issues with him. Seriously, I think that’s awesome. If our entire team does this, I’m DROOLING at the thought of us overachieving again. I love the work ethic of this team and I’m glad it’s paying off on TO.
Now, can someone teach TO the game, run tapes, and have him practice intelligent moves and late game concerns? maybe JJ should sit in too so that he can be shown where the out of bounds line is.
I love this team. I think they’re way cooler than the drexler era, and they haven’t even done anything yet.
"I got the goose bumps." - Rudy translated by Alamart
by ratbastird on
May 28, 2008 12:02 PM PDT
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My only problem is his defense
I love him, he is my favorite Trail Blazer. My only concern is his drop in the blocks category. I loved seeing him get that one sweet block every game
Whats your ring size? 2010
by Gregory Roy Aldridge on
May 28, 2008 5:58 PM PDT
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there are a lot of people here
who weren’t here last summer… and even back then i got tired of sticking up for travis vs all those who wanted him gone. (including the by-now legendary fatty—who despised no players as much as outlaw and martell).
and all during this season, there were those who if travis did great, they said trade him while his value is high, and if he had a bad game or two they said trade him ‘cause he’s no good.
so i guess it’s a permanent fixture of this blog.
ignacio
by ignacio on May 27, 2008 7:47 PM PDT 0 recs
Yep. I got tired too. That's why I just started #25ing them instead.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 27, 2008 7:54 PM PDT
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When i was wathching the playoff game tonight
I saw Oden in a car dealership comercial, he looked kind of awkward and goofy, but it was good to see him doing something and staying positive.
by raging WebTed on May 27, 2008 7:52 PM PDT 0 recs
And I know big!
He should get the local tv commercial Emmy for that work! lol
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 27, 2008 8:04 PM PDT
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I never turn down an opportunity to remind
everybody that there is no way Travis is going anywhere. Too great a guy and too fun to watch.
If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?
by bow4meow on May 27, 2008 10:22 PM PDT 0 recs
when comparing martel and travis
remember martel played with brandon and LMA almost all of his minutes and travis spent alot of his minutes as the number one option. This should explain the scoring difference, travis is a better rebounder but other than that they are equal citing scoring is really not fair considering their roles
by blackandwite323 on May 27, 2008 10:42 PM PDT 0 recs
4th quarter minutes
Im not quite sure on the numbers exactly, but I am willing to bet that Travis had more 4th quarter (crunch-time) minutes, with Brandon and LMA, than Martell did. It is true that Travis played more with the white unit than Martell did, but you can’t say that when he was on the floor, he was always the number one option.
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 27, 2008 11:00 PM PDT
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not always but how often was martel number one
id put money on 5% at most, travis’ clutch abilities also meant that when he was in with the starters at the end of the game he was hot so they still fed him the ball
by blackandwite323 on
May 27, 2008 11:14 PM PDT
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point
you just helped me prove my point.
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 27, 2008 11:21 PM PDT
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Someone should go back
and do the number crunching and create a cool pie chart again (or another chart). who’s up for the challenge???
"I got the goose bumps." - Rudy translated by Alamart
by ratbastird on
May 28, 2008 12:04 PM PDT
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I have always wanted to do a pie chart
denoting the relative merits of different types of pie. A Pie pie chart if you will.
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 28, 2008 1:04 PM PDT
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Make a pie poll in a fanpost
And then make a pie chart of the results.
P.S. I vote for custard or blackberry.
by pualo on
May 28, 2008 5:30 PM PDT
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I like rhubarb.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 6:51 PM PDT
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Strawberry-Rhubarb is also fine
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 28, 2008 7:00 PM PDT
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I've never understood tainting a perfectly good rhubarb pie
with strawberries. It negates the whole purpose of rhubarb pie.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 7:14 PM PDT
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ok...maybe so..but this is the perfect pie
Cherry pie (hot) with vanilla ice cream (cold) on it
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 28, 2008 8:20 PM PDT
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Works for me. I think I'm in a pie baking mood.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 8:40 PM PDT
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Mmmmmm .........beer
ooops …I mean pie
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
May 28, 2008 9:24 PM PDT
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Stats don't tell the whole story
Like he mentioned, coming off the bench Travis was the #1 option quite often. Martell isn’t used the same way at all. Webs’ game also translates better with the starters’ games too.
The main point you are missing though, along with lots of other Outlaw homers, is this: Martell is by far the superior defensive player. He plays D at a level that Travis probably never will and he’s only going to get better. That is the reality that Outlaw lovers refuse to acknowledge but it is the main reason why he is the one most likely to go.
If one of them goes, my money is on it being Travis.
by BlazerD on May 27, 2008 11:48 PM PDT 0 recs
Now that's what I am talking about
No bias, no stats that confuse people. that was a good rebuttal to my points.
Two things though:
1) The term outlaw homer should never again be uttered on this site. We, PTB fans, should never criticize each other for liking one Trailblazer more than the other.
2) If Martell’s D is so good, why are we desperately trying to find help with our perimeter D?
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 28, 2008 12:06 AM PDT
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We are trying to find help... are the Blazers?
I think that’s the real question.
Martell needs to get better, but he’s shown potential.
I favor keeping outlaw as a bench guy, never a starter. I love what he can bring, but until he gets smarter I don’t want him as a starter.
"I got the goose bumps." - Rudy translated by Alamart
by ratbastird on
May 28, 2008 12:07 PM PDT
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Travis Outlaw should never be traded!
unless we are getting a better player in return.
Come on now. Outlaw is a good player who should remain with the team unless something really good is coming the other way, but he’s not untouchable.
Roy and Oden are the only untouchables on this team (unless CP3 or LBJ is coming to PDX).
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on May 28, 2008 12:32 AM PDT 0 recs
did you just
imply a situation in which Brandon Roy would not be a Trailblazer? CP3 and King James are both great players. But if you are suggesting that KP trades or merely doesn’t re-sign BRoy, this team will go to crap. Brandon Roy is the BEST thing to happen to the city of Portland since Bill Walton was drafted. I’m saying it right now, if BRoy ever leaves, so do I. Who is with me?
18 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 80% FG, 66% 3PT FG. Can my boy get some love?
by easybig73 on
May 28, 2008 12:58 AM PDT
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Wow. Them's strong words. I never want Brandon to leave but
I’ve been a Blazer fan for a very long time and through thick and thin. I can’t possibly shun the team I’ve been rooting for most of my life. But I’d be very pizzaed off.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 1:20 AM PDT
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I did indeed imply...
... that I would swap Roy for LeBron or CP3 in a nanosecond. There are also a few other players I would strongly consider swapping him for, like Dwight Howard.
Roy’s awesome, but he was nowhere near the MVP level LBJ, KG, Kobe and CP3 were on this year… and I see him improving, but I don’t see him ever reaching that level.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on
May 28, 2008 10:22 AM PDT
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Chris Paul... maybe
I think Chris Paul MAY have the killer instinct.
LBJ… I don’ t want. Where was he game one and two against the Celtics. I don’t care how good the defense is… how many times did you see Jordan get shut down. How many times did you see someone SCORE 45 on Jordan?
I’ll keep Brandon. He has his head on and I think both he AND Greg will have that Killer instinct. Greg seemed to RELISH the idea of revenge is someone ever blocked his shot. Roy hates losing and I think winning will feed that more and more. His fades have been more about learning how to adjust, not fading. LBJ just faded. He should have been ready.
"I got the goose bumps." - Rudy translated by Alamart
by ratbastird on
May 28, 2008 12:11 PM PDT
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Brandon over LBJ?!@#!@$!$
I’m sorry, but Roy isn’t half the player that LeBron is.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on
May 28, 2008 1:03 PM PDT
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You're right
He’s not half, he’s about 3/4 the player LeBron is.
But I’d do that trade in a heartbeat, and so would KP.
Waste of time discussing it, though.
But can you imagine a front court of Oden, LMA, and LeBron, with Rudy at the 2, backed up by Martell? We could win 15 championships with Mortimer’s grandma at PG (I think he’s the guy who is always talking about his grandma).
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on
May 28, 2008 2:42 PM PDT
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Hard facts
The goal is to win a championship. That means if KP can improve the team by trading Travis, he’ll do so.
It may even mean we’ll get less talent back in return, because we’re deep at forward, but not at the point. When you trade quantity for quality, you usually pay high. And we’re in a position to trade quantity for quality.
Travis is a very valuable asset, and he could be used to bring in another very valuable asset at a position where we need more help.
Because of his personality and intangibles, his value is very high to us, possibly higher than to many other teams. That makes it much less likely that he’ll be traded.
KP knows what he’s giving up if he trades Travis. He won’t do it lightly. But no one is really untouchable. Stupid people make stupid offers for players from time to time, and sometimes you can’t afford to say no. KP’s job is to win championships. If that means trading a very good and popular player, because the right deal has come along, he’ll do it, and he should.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on May 28, 2008 4:10 AM PDT 0 recs
Yes. You're right. But I hate it.
#25
For whatever reasons I feel very protective of Travis, and I just feel that he’s not going to thrive on another team. He will with the Blazers.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 3:42 PM PDT
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Don't worry Ann
He’s ours ‘til he ain’t.
If KP does trade him someday, it will improve the team. If it doesn’t, that would be a Travisty.
You seem a little hallucinated with these comparisons.
by MiledAnimal on
May 28, 2008 4:17 PM PDT
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Ha ha! Travisty. Good one
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 28, 2008 6:53 PM PDT
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What?
How dare you #25 me!
I wasn’t advocating trading him. I don’t want KP to trade him. I’ll be very unhappy (unless it’s Travis and Raef for LeBron, and then I’ll quickly recover from my unhappiness). I’m just saying it might happen.
My feelings are irrevocably hurt.
Well, until I get over it. I do get over things. You might have to pay a price before I do, though. Perhaps throw your virgin daughter down a volcano, or something. I’ll think about it.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on
May 29, 2008 1:02 AM PDT
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I've already been dragged away to be re-educated for trying to explain something to you
so I know better than to try to apologize. Instead I’ll try to pacify your punctured pride by making you a nice haggis. You know what they say about men’s stomachs. Of course you’re the ruler of the world so I better add a few scotch eggs to the menu and serenade you on the bagpipes with a rousing skirl. That oughta do it.
P.S. I’m fresh out of virgin daughters. And sons, for that matter. But to a scotsman haggis is the next best thing. Isn’t it?
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 29, 2008 1:34 AM PDT
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Hmm...
I’ve never actually considered throwing a haggis down a live volcano. Somehow, it just doesn’t have the same impact as immolating virgins.
It might squeal just as loudly, though. Or were you suggesting we should kill the haggis, first?
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on
May 29, 2008 6:15 AM PDT
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Hmmm. In my research I found that a sheeps stomach
can be stuffed with almost anything and still be haggis. That opens up all kinds of possibilities. Now the question is, do we need to kill the sheep first? Do sheep squeal? Can live sheep be stuffed like geese? These, and many others, are questions that need to be answered before we can begin. Or we could just throw the sheep in the volcano and figure things out later.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on May 29, 2008 6:52 AM PDT 0 recs
Oops. Master of the universe, please forgive me for this one tiny infraction. I nested incorrectly again.
Dang it.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on
May 29, 2008 6:55 AM PDT
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Such ignorance
http://www.electricscotland.com/haggis/haggis1.html
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on
May 30, 2008 2:29 AM PDT
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