LMA vs. Rose
by Idog1976 on May 23, 2008 7:57 PM PDT
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PrintI'm sorry but I'm just too excited about this not to repost in a side diary!
I've seen a lot of excellent analysis but I want to chip in a bit.
It seems to me people are cherry picking both sides of the argument people complain that D. Rose is an unproven quantity and should "Play a game first" yet everyone assumes Oden is a lock for HOF (Please god let this be true). So that is a ridiculous statement and should be thrown straight out.
People are mostly wondering about whether D. Rose or LMA would help us win a championship. I think the answer is that both could help us win a championship. So then it comes down to who has the better package for this team and what are their strengths and weakness and what are the relative values of their positions?
I think that it is a well known fact that the Center position is the rarest and most coveted position. Next in line is the ultra-skilled PG. Easily the hardest position to master and the position after center most filled with so-so players in the league. Power forward is probably the next most coveted with SG and SF being a dime a dozen.
By the way if you take the league back to 1979 and count up championships won by dominant PG's and dominant Power Forwards you have: 5 rings for Magic, 2 rings for Isaiah Vs. 4 rings for a PF driven team Duncan and the Spurs (and 1 for Rasheed Wallace although Chauncey Billups was on that team as well....).
Oh wait Duncan had a top shelf PG for a couple of those rings...and a dominant center for the other two...
Also the other non-Jordan rings during that era were by Shaq (4) and Olajuwon (2) Bird (3), Moses Malone and Dr. J (1).
So it looks like Centers and PG's are definitely the way to go and if you take Duncan out of the equation you have a REALLY hard time finding a PF who led their team to anywhere other then frustration. Read: Barkley, Karl Malone, Tom Chambers, Nowitzki etc. etc. The only one I can find in the past 30 years who didn't have a dominant center or awesome PG is Moses Malone who had Dr. J.
By position it would seem D. Rose would be a rare and precious commodity assuming - las we are all doing with Oden - that he will be an excellent player. I think that anyone who DOESN'T think Rose is going to be an excellent player is as silly as Bulls fans saying TT will surpass LMA or that LMA sucks.
So let me put that to rest with my authoritative but meaningless opinion. They will both be great for their position.
So now what about individual skills?
LMA
Strengths: Excellent outside touch to 18 feet, myriad and improving post moves, can handle a double team, is a decent rebounder especially on offense, has shown marked improvement on weak side blocks, is a good to man defender, very fast for his size. Almost certainly will be one of the best PF's in the league for some time (unlike TT).
Weaknesses: Strength, inability to consistently establish an inside position in the post (strength again), needs to work on back to the basket moves, must become a better defensive rebounder, needs to develop killer instinct and will to dominate.
Rose
Strengths: Excellent ball handler, Blinding speed, excellent size for his position, Good defender with potential to become great, will to dominate and killer instinct repeatedly shown, excellent slasher, great on the fast break distributing or finishing, great rebounder for his position, can dominate the ball or defer to team mates.
Weakness: Needs to create more opportunities for team mates, must develop long ball, needs to work on jump shot, room for improvement on defense.
So then given the above...what do the blazers most need on this team? And is it something Rose or LMA bring or something we might already have on our team?
The blazers suffered when we shot the long ball inconsistently. Neither Rose nor LMA will bring this talent although Rose might develop it. Martell, JJ33, or Rudy could plug this hole.
The blazers suffered on rebounding. LMA had all the opportunities in the world to show dominant rebounding and he rarely came through. Near the end of the season Frye appeared to be a better rebounder although that is the ONLY area he is better then LMA. Rose could help with back court rebounding but this wouldn't be his contribution. Frye, and of course Oden can take care of this need. Oden likely will take care of the problem single AND doublehandedly.
The blazers were repeatedly burned by penetrating PG's and to a lesser extent 2 guards. Obviously LMA won't help with this and no one with the possible exception of Martell showed any signs of doing this. Rose would help TREMENDOUSLY in this area.
The blazers suffered from an inability to create on the offense unless B. Roy took over. LMA didn't help at all here, Rose would. Unless Rudy gains 20 - 35 lbs over the summer it is unlikely he will help in this regard.
The blazers suffered and were exposed repeatedly as a poor ball handling club that frequently got burned by trapping defenses. Again LMA no help Rose would break this.
The blazers never had much in the way of fast break offense except for rare flashes from Sergio. LMA did not help in this regard.
The blazers had weak interior defense. LMA certainly made us a better team in this regard but was not a show stopper by any means even when paired with a more then adequate defender in Przybilla.
The blazers WILL need someone to take the pressure off of Oden by knocking down the shot when he is doubled. LMA would EXCEL at this and would create a nightmare scenario for other teams...However, both Outlaw and Frye could perform this function.
I'm probably missing a few things here but this is my conclusion. Assuming a full potential being reached by LMA and Rose who would help the Blazers more?
I gotta go with Rose. Killer instinct, great defense, take pressure off Roy on both ends of the court and more potential then you can shake a stick at. LMA is far more replaceable with Outlaw and Frye around then a top shelf PG.
LMA is a great player but I feel he lacks the killer instinct. I also think he is a big disappointment on the boards an area where he should flourish. I will gladly keep LMA and I think he would help us win championships, but given the chance to trade LMA, Jack + some picks...I think you have GOT to pull the trigger on that.
P.S. Hire Avery Johnson we don't even need to trade for this!
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LMA... all day, all night
Here’s why. At the end of the day, size matters.
As for taking pressure off of Roy, how would a guard do that better than a 7’ PF who can control the opposite side of the lane from Oden?
Dude, we are so set right now, it’s not even funny.
Let these three jel, swap the interchangeable role players, and let’s win.
Blake brings it up on the right, swings it to Webster on the elbow, he moves around the key and passes to the low left block for Aldridge, Aldridge jukes baseline, turns back in and finds Roy cutting down the seam, ROY THROWS IT UP AT THE RIM FOR ODEN WHO THROWS IT DOWN FOR THE TWO HANDED MONSTER JAM!!! BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!!! -Wheeler '08-'09
i can't wait
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 23, 2008 8:06 PM PDT reply actions
That poll leaves a lot to be desired....
I think Rose will be great, but is the poll asking who’s better or will be better, or who will be better for this team?
I think if it’s the former then in that case we would have to see how Rose fares in the NBA. I doubt he’ll be a flop, but he may very well end up being the next TJ Ford.
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy=Dynasty. Believe
"Who do you think would be the better fit with Roy and Oden?"
I think that means on this team.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 23, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Picking nits?
It’s a straight up question – who would you rather have on the Blazers.
btw – thanks Idog. I was hoping someone posted the question straight up like this. I like it better than all of the Here’s how (or why) we trade for Rose discussions.
I’m also happy with the results.
I actually edited the poll becasue of OdenRoyLMA's comment
it was a simple Rose Vs. LMA then answers Rose or LMA seemed obvious to me but I could tell it needed clarification.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
You don't trade your bigs for a small
You don’t trade a guy with two years experience on your team for an unproven teenage rookie.
You don’t tell your team and your fans, there is a”Big 3,” then trade one of the Big 3.
It’s like saying, “Our middle child isn’t developing into the math wizard we want, because he’s too interested in art. Lets put him up for adoption and adopt a kid from Asia.”
Four
You don't trade big for small?
I have heard that somewhere before…I think.
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on May 23, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
i know an asian that isn't good at math
blasphemy, i know.
I used to play sports, then I realized you can buy trophies, now I'm good at everything, even checkers - Demetri Martin
Yeah
I was going with the stereotype there. Even positive ones can be hurtful. My heartfelt apology. My wife is basically an accountant and she screwed up on my taxes twice.
Four
As long as we're all taking things the wrong way.
Your wife had an affair? With you taxes? You Hawaiian types are a little weird for me.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
--your--
Gotta preview better.
Twice?!
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
I'm basically an accountant
and I suck at my taxes.
I don’t know what that says about my longterm job prospects.
Even the IRS sucks at doing taxes.
Every year at tax time there is this group that asks accountants from the top firms, plus the IRS, to prepare a fictional return. None of them ever get it right.
Our tax code is so large and convoluted that it has become almost impossible to follow correctly. The result of Congress using it to reward certain groups, industries or individuals, or to support pet projects and ideas. Going to a flat tax would be so much better, but to many people, including Congress, benefit too much with the current system.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
Yep. Flat tax. Let the gigantic multi-billion $ corporations pay taxes too.
"We comin along." Travis Outlaw
Thanks
I had to take some liberties there, her fist name is actually spelled with an “i” and luckily the poster of that video spelled her name wrong.
Four
John Stockton, Jason Kidd...
Tons of great point guards never win championships. I’m sure there are tons of centers that haven’t won either, but I can’t really think of any. That said, I like to think of LMA and GO as one, they will be our post fusion. Inside and outside, able to score; high post and low post, able to defend. I dunno, I just think LMA will be better for the Blazers, especially considering the fact we already have in our system.
I used to play sports, then I realized you can buy trophies, now I'm good at everything, even checkers - Demetri Martin
Patrick Ewing
But look a godlike Center plus a top shelf PG + and awesome wing = certain championship delight. I’m actually not certain we win with our current big three. If Rose and Oden both pan out it’s a certainty. Riskier perhaps but I take a risk going for a stronger hand rather then keeping a hand that might not be enough to win.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
definietly valid about Ewing
I agree that if we got Rose and then he and Oden met expectations that would guarantee a championship. I also firmly believe that LMA, Roy and Oden can win a championship. Look at the Spurs, they’ve won a number of championships with either and old David Robinson and Young Tim Duncan or their “big three” of Ginobili, Parker and Duncan. I think I can reasonably be argued that Roy, LMA and Oden will be better than either of those Spurs teams. No, LMA is not going to be Tim Duncan, but he combined with a great Oden will be better tham Duncan. I also think that we have chance to get better role players than the Spurs have, partially because of Paul Allen’s money, partially becasue we’re starting younger. because so many of our players are young they will either develop into solid role players or be moved for solid role players. I doubt we’ll be relying on an old Bruce Bowen and a really old Michael Finley to fill our roster. I guess I just a matter of differing opinion though.
I used to play sports, then I realized you can buy trophies, now I'm good at everything, even checkers - Demetri Martin
So are Roy, Aldridge and Oden not enough to win now?
We went all last season thinking that they were. I think Rose, Roy and Oden are really about equal to Roy, Aldridge and Oden. That’s if Rose reaches his potential, which I think he will. The thing is, we know Aldridge fits in our system, gets along with Coach Nate, and already has two years of experience under his belt. Aldridge is a good enough player that last season we sent our leading scorer and rebounder out for Steve Francis to buy out, a draft pick and a couple of role-players. I’m not ready to give up on him after one season, and a dang good one at that. Not even for Rose, who has been getting a lot of hype lately, even from me. With this much hype, he might be the next Star Wars: Episode I, or worse yet, Adam Morrison. Actually, that last part is probably just sour grapes on my part for losing the lottery.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
I'm not sure that they are to be honest.
As a further consideration given the rickety nature of the global economy we may not have the window of time we need to develop into a championship team. I often joke with friends and family it’s a race between Armageddon and a Blazer’s championship.
But that is an aside. I guess watching the playoffs and end of the season made me rethink whether the blazers will be able to compete without at least a top shelf defender at PG. I also think it will be nearly as hard to pry away a Devin Harris or Calderon as a Derrick Rose and if that is the case why not go for the gold and take the best talent? If the Blazers got a Jerryd Bayless or perhaps a Russel Westbrook (not convinced there) or even an OJ Mayo (He is a HUGE unknown and could be a beast or a bust). then I think that would be sufficient. But if we have to give up alot to get one of these guys why not go a bit further and get a sure deal. D. Rose has WAY more chance of being a beast then any of those guys and is the closest thing to a lock that he will be top shelf. With all that considered and my personal drool fest over Rose since last summer my thinking has swung in the direction of if you can get D. Rose do it. I also have read on other blogs and forums AND an insider in the Blazer Dancers that LaMarcus might not be too keen on Ptown and that he could leave after his rookie contract expires….If that happens and we get nothing for him all the anti-Rose folks won’t be looking quite so wise.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
I'm actually becoming convinced that Mayo would be worth taking a flyer on.
The fanpost that started it all was this morning. Looking into him for the first time left me quite surprised. He really is everything we’re looking for in a PG, as far as I’m concerned. And #5 or #6 (if mock drafts are accurate) would be far less expensive to acquire.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
I doubt he would leave
We can offer him whatever he needs money-wise wise and by the time his contract expires we will be a championship ficken contender. He’d be stupid to leave a top shelf team with teammates he’s been with for his whole NBA career, for another franchise.
KP: You know Mike Rice, Mike Barret you've both been very valuable to us this season. But I'd still trade you both for a couple of 2nd round draft picks.
We already have
a god-like center(Oden), a top PG(Roy), and an awesome wing(Rudy). We also happen to have a great power forward(Aldridge) in addition to those 3.
I hope you are right
I happen to be a fan of the Roy as PG movement myself as it would solve some of our problems. I only question if we have anyone who can play the 2 and 3 with competency. I think Martell could be a reasonable 3 if he continues to work on his defense an ballhandling. I’m a big Martell fan and think he will someday be a great weapon for this team and also a great defensive player. Rudy on the other hand is a GIGANTIC question mark. He could be the next Ginobli but he could also be the next Euro-bust. If he doesn’t pack on the Lbs. I am concerned he won’t make much of an impact on this league as his game in europe relied heavily on his getting to the rack which freed him up to shoot the long ball as they cut off his ability to drive. Without the threat of him finishing at the hoop they will just smother him at the line the way teams started playing James Jones in the 2nd half of the year.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
I actually do quite well with it
I also fold a lot. but folding on an NBA team would be sacrilege I would have folded repeatedly in the mid late nineties :)
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
The reason that the proven unproven argument is valid is...
that we have to give something very valuable up to get Rose now. Oden came to us free. Rudy came to us free (kind of). We didn’t have to give up anyone to draft them (or in Rudy’s case, anyone important). We can be high on their potential, because we already have their rights. Rose is another matter. We would have to give up a lot to get him at this point. Will he be good? Probably, even most likely, but we have a better idea on Aldridge’s development at this point than we do Rose’s.
To put it another way, if another team had Oden, and he was available, I would not trade Lamarcus Aldridge for him at this point. Oden is an unproven, but because he’s our unproven, we can dream big on him if we wish. It’s much harder to do that with someone else’s unproven.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
You had me going
until you wrote that second paragraph. If you wouldn’t trade LMA for Oden who WOULD you trade LMA for? LeBron? Dwight Howard?
Oden is an unproven commodity that if he is a bust means the rest of this doesn’t even matter. If we didn’t have Oden I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to trade for him injury history and all for LMA.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
The problem is that Oden is not yet as good as Howard.
I fully believe he will be soon. But I have that option as the Blazers already have him. If another team wanted to trade for Oden, I’m not so sure that they would be willing to give up a player of Aldridge’s caliber to get him. I don’t think the Hornets would give up David West for Oden straight up right now.
On top of that, since we do already have Oden, we overvalue him. All he’s graded on is potential. Like I said above, this is much easier to do when the player already belongs to you. The same thing is happening with the Bulls. Some Portland fans think that Aldridge could get us Rose. Chicago fans think that’s funny.
I don’t think it is a good idea to trade Aldridge at all at this point, unless it is one of those freakishly lopsided deals you mentioned. Because Aldridge could get better, and we don’t have to give anything up to get him better.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
umm this is satire right
why would you even compare the two..have i missed somrthing..are they talking about trading lamarcus otherwise this is a moot point
if it can be conceived it can be achieved
Interior Defense
With LMA and Oden, I truly, honestly, want to be holding guys like Howard, Duncan, Amare etc. to single digits. There simply shouldn’t be any easy baskets near the hoop.
I agree with you on this
an excellent reason to vote LMA in this discussion. Thank you for sticking to the question at hand. Your point is a good one and one I don’t disagree with. I have been drooling over Rose since last summer and I think he is going to be in the top 5 if not top 3 pgs in the league within 2-3 years right around when the Blazers are ready to get fitted for rings.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Magic Johnson
benefited from playing with a center named Kareem Abdul-Jabbar who was the NBA MVP 6 times. If you attribute those 5 Lakers titles to Kareem, then star PGs really haven’t accomplished much. If you consider Larry Bird to be a PF (he often played the PF position), then PFs have actually done pretty well, though centers have clearly won the most championships.
??? bird often played pf?
ok, i wasn’t around when he played, but i always thought McHale was the pf, give me details on that?
Bird played both forward positions
When he was playing with McHale, he would play the 3 and McHale would play at the 4. However, when McHale wasn’t in the game Bird would usually be the power forward.
okay, can't argue that
i looked up Bird’s career #, shocked that he only made something like 500 3s his whole career, i thought being the legendary shooter he was, he would get a lot more than that. maybe that was just the 80s style…
Well, he did win some 3-point shooting competitions
I have heard Bird described as one of the few NBA players who have ever had the versatility to play 4 positions effectively. He had the skills of a point guard combined with enough size and strength to guard power forwards.
The style of play had something to do with it.
I don’t think people really started relying on the three ball heavily until Houston won their titles in the mid-90s. The shot was part of the game of course and it was a deadly weapon for Chicago with Kerr (and obviously other teams had three point shooters) but it wasn’t viewed the same until guys started coming into the NBA having played with a three point line since high school/junior high. You just don’t see the same types of offenses in today’s game. Most are designed around freeing up three point shooters either by penetrating and kicking or throwing into the post and kicking out.
The line really has changed the game and if Bird was playing now in that type of an offense, he would have shot a lot more threes.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Not really accurate. Bird was a big sf, but he was pretty much always a sf.
Cornbread Maxwell was the starting PF for the first few years, with McHale backing him up. then McHale was the starter. Yeah, Bird would sometime play a few minutes as the PF, but not significant minutes.
by howlingfantods on May 25, 2008 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point
although Kareem had retired by the last ring and I think maybe the one before that. This would only strengthen my argument given the L*kers dominance from 79 to 1989 that a top shelf PG and Center combo is the best. Of course they also had James Worthy who was no bad shakes at PF to say the least.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
The Showtime Lakers won thier last championship in 1988
Kareem retired after the 1988-1989 season. The Lakers managed to get to the finals without Kareem, but they were not able to win the championship.
Ah ok well I yield to your superior
knowledge. I thought Kareem had left by then, I guess you are right.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Doh you're right
I was pretty young in Worthy’s day. My mistake and that just highlights further how powerful it is to have a PG/Center combo.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
He is considered the best PF of all time (by some)
It is BS of course. He does everything a Center does but all that started when he was playing with Robinson and they just kept it up.
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on May 23, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
If TD is considered a center
then you see that only two of his rings came with a twin towers scenario
(or was it one?) and the rest with a center/pg combo…
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Can you start 3 more threads on the topic?
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on May 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm all for it.
i still like OJ and think he’s ok.
this isn’t off topic: keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!! keep LMA!!!
I used to play sports, then I realized you can buy trophies, now I'm good at everything, even checkers - Demetri Martin
One thing EVERYONE is missing.
LMA can actually play defense! Without LMA, we get dominated by the likes of Boozer, Gasol, Duncan, Garnett, ‘Sheed, (Just thinking about all the good teams in the league here…), etc. etc.
That brings up another point—all the good teams DO have a good PF, so I don’t know who would argue otherwise. Even Jordan had a serviceable Horace Grant, who I think was often overlooked. That point aside, I recall Dave saying this somewhere in the season:
“Timmy, go eat your vegetables or I’ll make you watch Channing Frye play interior defense”
Timmy immediately began shoveling in the peas and corn, recklessly and without abandon.
Seriously! Channing can’t play D. Comparing Channing to LMA is an INSULT and there is NO way we can win with Channing as our starting PF. Sorry. LMA’s defense is severely under-rated, and it’s only going to improve with Oden coming in. Keep LMA. We don’t need Rose. In this league you need 3 things: A good center, a good forward, and a good guard. We have all three. We don’t want two good guards and a good center. We want a center, a guard, and a forward. End of story.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
The only comparison I made of Channing and LMA
Is the following:
“Near the end of the season Frye appeared to be a better rebounder although that is the ONLY area he is better then LMA. “
I had already used all caps but I have added italics and bold to further emphasize that rebounding is the ONLY area I see Frye as comparing to or exceeding LMA. Frye doesn’t replace LMA but he is a much better substitute then Blake or our other PG’s are for Rose. That was and still is my primary point. We have more talent at the 4 position by far then the 1. Making a PG a more pressing need for the team. Now it is up to you as to whether you agree that we need a good PG more then a good PF. If you disagree please tell me why.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Chaning is also
a slightly better shooter than LMA. Aldridge is pretty good at hitting mid-range jump shots for a big man, but Frye’s range extends all the way out to beyond the 3-point line. Aldridge is a descent free-throw shooter, but again Frye is a little bit better.
I think Frye is more of a specialist shooting big man, while LMA is a more well-rounded player. Aldridge is a better post scorer and defender, and overall should be considered a better player. However, I do think Frye is better than most people seem to think he is.
Frye's midrange verse LMA
Aldrige is also younger, he was working on his 3 point shot last summer and should have one soon.
Joel Freeland=Stud
Yes, but LMA is working on a lot of other things as well
Whereas Frye sounds like he has given up trying to become a post presence and is focusing on reinforcing his perimeter play. Hopefully Frye will get a chance to play his natural position next year, if there is anything that Frye’s 3 years in the the NBA have proven it is that Frye is not a center and trying to get him to bulk up to become more of a center is a bad idea.
This OBSESSION with Rose is making me sick
Any GM that is stupid enough to trade Rose to us would be would be tarred and feathered and run out of town in nothing flat – so GET A GRIP. We are not getting Rose OK? Get over it. KP is amazing but even he is not that amazing. Also since most people that are knowledgeable about basketball agree that a PG takes 3 – 5 years and maybe more to get to their prime we would be taking a step backward for several years if we traded LMA for Rose. And what if he didn’t turn out to be the ultimate super hero GOD PG that everyone seems to think he will be. Wouldn’t you all feel really stupid for painting this picture of Rose as the only human on the planet capable getting the Blazers to a Championship. We might actually consider that KP has already done a pretty damn good job of building a winning team. I think that if we really have to add PG project to this team we should give Westbrook a try and that way we don’t have to destroy what we already have to get that project.
I do want to take time to thank those of you that have defended LMA in this thread.
LMA's reign as "LaMonster of the Low Post" has just begun!
by LaMarvelous on May 23, 2008 10:54 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
A little harsh overall, but I really agree with your first point
Derrick Rose is not available The number 1 & 2 picks are not available. LMA is my favorite blazer, but he isn’t quite as talented as Rose or as valuable with the current leaguewide lust for elite point guards.
My expectation for LMA is to come back every year improved in a significant way. Look at how much better David West has gotten and LMA is starting with a whole lot more talent than him. Both players seem to eat & sleep basketball. Meeting that expectation LMA could surpass his NBA comparison of Rasheed Wallace.
Your last point to take westbrook is another issue for another fanpost. In short… that guy just simply is not an offensive point guard. He is a one man fastbreak and will be a system-based starter (Thinking Monta Ellis) or a back up (Thinking Nate Robinson).
If Chicago (or the Heat) were
offered enough, you bet Rose would be available . You don’t think they would trade the pick if we offered Oden, Roy and LMA? Of course they would. They would accept a lot less than that …. we just don’t know how much less.
The problem as I see it is the Bulls already have enough talent on the roster now, that offering, say 3 quality players to them may not be that enticing. Miami on the other hand probably needs a number of quality players to become competitive again so they would likely pay attention if LMA, Travis and Rudy were offered for the rights to Rose.
A plus is that KP has been able to accumulate enough talented players that letting 2 or 3 go wouldn’t totally decimate our talent level. That’s a nice position to be in. Not every team has this luxury.
For your viewing pleasure, here again are some comments from the “experts” regarding Rose:
" A breath taking athlete …. terrific size for a PG …..blinding speed …… dazzeling dunker …. likely to be the most athletic PG in the league for years to come …. a point guard in the true sense of the word …. knows how to run a team and raise level of his teammates … rare ability to create passing lanes …. excellent handle on the ball …. doesn’t get rattled easily … deadly on fast break ….. powerful leaper …. cat like quickness … hits foul shots at a good rate … tough as nails competitor … good decision maker …. excellent rebounder due to his size, strength and tenacity … a relentless defender with quick hands and length …. gets low and can lock his man down on defense”, et cetera.
If KP were able to get this guy, we’d likely be setup with the best point guard in league for the next dozen years. If not, I’m afraid the Bulls will dominate again. I so much did not want them to get this pick. They already had their time in the sun. I learned to hate that team and still do. Way more than the Lakers.
You're post is a tad insulting...
I hear what you are saying about unknown qualities but come on you don’t have to be so rude. I don’t think Rose is the “Only human being who can bring us to the championship”. I don’t think that is true. I think he would INCREASE the chances of us winning a championship over a PF due to the hand checking rule and the current crop of ultra quick PG’s in the west ie D. Will, CP3 and Parker. Tony Parker I might add almost singlehandedly destroyed the Suns due to be un-guardable and even Shaq and Amare couldn’t stop him at the rim. That shows to me that a twin towers set up does not quit guarantee a lock-down defense in the paint and especially not on the fast break. That requires a lightning quick guard someone like D. Rose.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Id Take LMA anyday of the week over Rose
He is actually proven in the NBA and has shown the ability to join the elite PF in the NBA. Although Rose could be one of the best PG’s in the league in a few years, u cant help but remember the millions of posts around the league last year talking about Big Men bringin rings home. Im not saying LMA will be the key reason we win 5-6 championships in the coming years, but im saying his dominating presence in the future will certainly help. I see him as somewhat of a young Rasheed Wallace, just not as crazy. Hes got that soft touch for a big guy, and he is developing those post up moves. Sheed was the player that pushed the Pistons over the top the year they won it and he is one of the key parts of the Eastern Conf. Pistons dynasty over the last few years. PF is such a pivotal position that i think we would be crazy to trade a proven PF for an unproven PG. I mean if u look at history the only PG ever to lead his team anywhere it was Allen Iverson. He was the sole reason anybody cared about the 76’s when he was in his prime. SO i vote keep LMA
by Gregory Roy Aldridge on May 24, 2008 10:38 AM PDT reply actions
WOW
alot of vitriol and little substance. I get that people like LMA. Seriously though can we please all talk about skills and usefulness to the team in this discussion? I get that most of my fellow fans want to run me out of town on a rail. My question is other then blind loyalty to LMA, who I might add could easily leave when his contract is up, there have been few people who have sticked to relative merits of a top shelf PG vs a top shelf PF.
I've NEVER said that LMA was anything other then a fantastic worker and soon to be dominant PF. I tried to honestly critique his game in the area I'd like to see improve ie rebounding, help defense and establishing himself in the post. Likewise I pointed out that Derrick Rose needs to work on his 3 ball, his defense and also his mid-range jumper.My point is with a few notable exception people have dusted off old chestnuts and sayings “a bird in hand” rather then answering my question. WHO is the better fit. I’m not saying rose is available to us although I outlined one I think reasonable trade involving LMA, Jack and some picks (by the way this is probably too low for Chicago…hmm I wonder why?). My question was WHO is the better fit with Roy and Oden?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
The greyed out section
was supposed to read.
I have never said that LMA was anything other then a fantastic worker and a soon to be dominant PF. I critiqued some areas of his game that I think an honest evaluation would show he needs work on. Namely help defense (got better near end), Defensive rebounding, establishing low post position, and back to the basket moves. Some would add ball handling which wouldn’t hurt. I likewise criticized Rose on aspects of his game that need work. More emphasis on setting up teammates, improved mid and long range jumpshot, improving on his natural skills with defense. They both have some exceptional upside there is no question. I also will say there is NO CHANCE barring an injury that either Rose or LMA will not come to be one of the best in their league at their position.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Damn this stupid format
why the hell does it keep greying out sections? Key sections no less. ARRGHHH!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
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