ACB/EURO vs. NCAA

by The Graduate on May 23, 2008 4:31 PM PDT Comment 17 comments

This fanpost is meant to piggyback off of interesting comments made under TwoDeep's most recent diary on Derrick Rose trade scenarios. The comments regarded the Rudy vs. Rose debate- feel free to keep this debate in mind.

The questions I pose are these:

1. Which league (Euro vs. NCAA) better prepares players for NBA basketball?

2. Assuming a similar level of success in comparison to his league, is a Euro prospect or an NCAA basketball player more "proven" in NBA terms?

3. This comparison is obviously oversimplified. Therefore, what factors do you see that complicate this discussion (specific to Rose vs. Rudy, and also in general)?

Caveats:

1. I am not asking which is the better league? KP and others have claimed that the Spanish league (or greater Euroleague) is a step above NCAA basketball. You may disagree. Regardless, this post does not immediately concern this debate.

2. I am also not asking for the league that produces the best long term NBA prospects. Clearly, the majority of the most talented NBA players were former NCAA athletes as opposed to foreigners. As best as you can, put aside natural athletic ability and natural talent. Think about development!

Basically, being the overbearing, basketball-loving parent that you are, you know your son (or daughter) is destined for the NBA. From a purely basketball standpoint, would you put your child in a Euro league or the NCAA to develop?

Poll

The better developmental league for the NBA:

Euro leagues

17 votes

NCAA

25 votes

42 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 17 comments

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Comments

Depends on the league in question

In European professional basketball, there are numerous national leagues, of which the ACB (Asociación de Clubs de Baloncesto, or Association of Basketball Clubs)—the Spanish league, is one of the strongest. There are about 30 or so such leagues. The Finnish league, where Petteri Koponen plays, is another; it is far less strong.

Note that Israel, despite not being part of Europe, competes as a European country.

Than there is the “Euroleague”, which consists of the top club teams from many of the top European leagues. Several ACB teams are part of the Euroleague, including Axa Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Unicaja. Note that Rudy’s team, DJV Joventut, is not a Euroleauge team. The Euroleague itself is top-tier competition, second only to the NBA in skill, and probably stronger than any of the national pro leagues.

(As a question to amlmart—how are Euroleague teams determined? Is it a merit-based system of promotion and relegation? If Joventut can beat Barcelona and win the ACB championship, would they get invited to Euroleage? Or is it more or less for the rich clubs only?)

by EngineerScotty on May 23, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Euroleague Invitations

I haven’t been able to find anything that explains how they determine which teams get to be in the Euroleague and which don’t. It doesn’t seem to be a promotion/demotion system since Rudy’s team made the playoffs last time they were in the Euroleague but still didn’t play in the Euroleague the next year. I think teams have to re-qualify every year by doing well in their own national leagues. I do know that the top 2 teams in the ULEB cup are invited to play in the next year’s Euroleague. Rudy’s team won the ULEB cup this year so they have already qualified for next year’s Euroleague.

by trk on May 23, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

It is a complex system that have changed many times. There are the 2 Uleb Cup spots and the national league spots, different for each country, depending on the quality level of national competition (they are rated). Spain can send four teams to Euroligue, selected depending on their performances in national competitions. Countries can do its own rules to determine its selection. For example, this year Spain decided to give a spot to the team that wins regular league, what will send Real Madrid to Euroleague next year, even if it los in first playoff round.

It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.

by amlmart1 on May 23, 2008 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My 2 Cents

Based on cheerleaders alone, I have to go with the Euroleage over NCAA.

Three

by tominhawaii on May 23, 2008 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thats kind of a

Win, win big situation.

by Sabonis4Ever on May 23, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had another thought

I think if you had two equally skilled players that played four years in each league. I think the guy who played four years in Europe would be better because he would play against more experienced opponents.

Four

by tominhawaii on May 23, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Mr. inHawaii,

What is it you’re counting? I see you’re up to four now.

"We comin along." Travis Outlaw

by annthefan on May 24, 2008 3:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Posts where getting Derrick Rose is the subject. I really feel sorry for Jose Calderon and Devin Harris, they are being neglected like dumpster babies.

Four

by tominhawaii on May 25, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do ya like...

...Mayo on your cake?
Baked or UnBaked
Do ya have the Sweet Tooth?
What’re we bakin’ here, huh?

"Always Willing, Ever Able" - rivbike.com
"A Dbl Shot O' Whiskey & A Pitcher O' Beearr" - BoilerMaker (It's Game Time Baby, see Ya Again, 'n the Second Half)

by BlueBooYay on May 26, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mmm

Mayo on pizza

Four

by tominhawaii on May 26, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo on my pollen allergy.

It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.

by amlmart1 on May 26, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo on my Head Lice

Lost all my hair
smothered my brain
Have no mo’ lil’ roaches
above the waist line
It’s all ‘bout appearance
Waving a cuppa amber
or a pistol in ma pants

"Always Willing, Ever Able" - rivbike.com
"A Dbl Shot O' Whiskey & A Pitcher O' Beearr" - BoilerMaker (It's Game Time Baby, see Ya Again, 'n the Second Half)

by BlueBooYay on May 26, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Statistical Analysis

A while back I looked up the stats of a bunch of college players who went on to play in the NBA, and compared their college stats with NBA rookie stats. My goal was to find out what which stats transfered over best from the college game to the NBA (summary: assists transfered over well, rebounds moderately well, scoring (especially inefficient volume scoring) not so well). Anyway, the average PER for their rookie year was .56 of their average PER in college. I was mostly looking at guards, but I imagine that there would be a similar if not larger drop for big men(since a lot of the big men they face in college are undersized).

I tried to look up the stats of some former Euroleague players who now play in the NBA. I wasn’t able to find the stats for as many players as I would have liked so there is a small sample size for this comparison, but the average rookie Euro had a PER of .69 of his last year in the Euroleague. Based on this, it looks like players from the Euroleague should be considered slightly more proven than players with similar stats in college, though I would caution people against reading too much into this study due to the relative lack of data.

by trk on May 23, 2008 10:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Language Barrier?

How much of a language barrier is it for players coming from Europe to play in the states? That and the other cultural adjustment factors complicate the transition of the Euro players to the NBA much more than the collegians

by tingeyga on May 24, 2008 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I went Euro because of the longer stay.

And I suppose that’s because of the pay, as opposed to the play-for-free NCAA.

The prime players in the Euro leagues tend to stay for several years and fully develop,
whereas college ballers of any talent level are gone after year one, even if they’re not NBA-ready.
If Tyrus Thomas and Marvin Williams had come out of the Euro leagues, they’d have stayed for a while,
and probably not come out until roughly this year.

Can you imagine how good those two would be if they’d’ve waited
and developed a couple of years longer than they did?
Instead, they’re buried behind the redundant talents of Noah and the ATL Joshes.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on May 24, 2008 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree.

I´ve heard to NBA players who played in Europe that they did a lot more training in Europe than in NBA, something maybe related with the larger number of games and longer travels in USA. More training and more playing time should provide better development.

It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.

by amlmart1 on May 24, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure that is true

While there are players who come out of Europe fully ready to contribute (Rudy being a prime example), there are still many players from Europe that are drafted based on their supposed potential but haven’t proved much on the court yet (Darko being a prime example).

by tingeyga on May 24, 2008 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs