Weighing the Draft
There’s a bunch of talk going on about the draft and relative weights player-to-player and year-to-year. It’s fascinating, and much appreciated too! The diversity of opinion and spirited debate make for interesting reading, especially since we’ve got people not just on both ends of a spectrum, but on most points in between. This is one of the fringe benefits of having an open-ended pick and open-ended needs as opposed to last year’s basically binary options.
In the spirit of this discussion (and to encourage more) I want to offer a primer of sorts, not on the draftees, but on the judging of prospects and classes in the abstract based on fan opinions and reactions, media reports, and mock drafts--the basic resources we have available. Mind you, this is useless as a scouting or professional survey. The point isn’t to divulge arcane secrets that will give you the exact draft order. The question at hand is how we, as fans, interpret and parse the information accessible to us in order to make reasonable comparisons. Here’s the deal:
Tip #1: A draft class will, on average, be significantly overrated in its own year.
This will intensify at the time of the NCAA Tournament, continue through the draft lottery, and build steadily until draft day. How many times have you looked ahead at next year’s draft class and said, “This doesn’t look like a particularly strong group”? In a given year you might be able to name one or two underclassmen who could be significant players if they came out, plus maybe a sleeper you’ve had your eye on. But most years, for media folks and fans alike, those prospective significant players don’t amount to more than a half-dozen players...and that's if you’re really, really watching. Now let me ask you this: has there ever been a draft in the history of forever that hasn’t been described as “deep” in the weeks leading up to it? What happened in the meantime to change that handful of prospects into the next revolution in the NBA? For the most part, nothing. They’re still the same group they always were. We’re just paying more attention to them now. It’s human nature to elevate the importance of that which we pay attention to. It’s also important for the entertainment value. It’s incredibly depressing to say, “This draft is going to be average at best.” It kills the whole early summer, not to mention your team’s chances of improving…which is another significant factor. If you don’t have a Top 3 pick, you want the draft to be deep. For most of us not just four or five deep either, but into the teens and twenties. We have to believe there are sleepers out there to be plucked or the star power this year is so great as to provide important players by the dozen. This also, by the way, affects the way the media presents each draft. The experts don’t just make their money by being right about the prospects, their order, and their future. In fact nobody tunes in to check whether anyone’s mock draft was accurate except their own. People tune in for the interest, the excitement, the mystery, and the hype. A media expert who called a draft class terminally mediocre and wholly predictable in late May would be slitting his own throat. Thus the frenzy gets fed.
Does this mean that the hype can’t be true and that everybody is overrated? Of course not. Some of the praise is dead on. Some draftees will exceed expectations. But there will be plenty of average guys, non-impact players, and outright busts too and you won’t hear about a one of them from official sources leading up to the draft. On average, across the board, it’s safer to bet a draft class will not live up to its pre-draft billing, let alone the frenzy that surrounds it on draft day.
Tip #2: Any given fan base will overvalue players its team is likely to draft and/or has drafted.
Corollary #2a: Everyone will tend to overvalue the top picks.
Like a street magician’s trick, this is obvious and funny when you see it happen to someone else, but devilishly hard to detect when it’s happening to you. You need look no farther than Russell Westbrook among Blazer fans this year. I’m sure he’s good and has a lot to offer the team. But as momentum towards the prospect of picking him builds you are going to read description after description that makes him sound far more like a #2 pick than a #13. Furthermore, it’s guaranteed the reputation of whoever we pick will grow mightily between late June and late October. You will see him penciled into starting lineups before the year ends. You will start to hear about the eventual dominance of the core of Roy, Aldridge, Oden, and Draft Boy. Meanwhile to the rest of the league he’s still a #13 selection with all of the flaws and learning curve that implies. But then again, THEY have the secret instant starter.
Part of the reason the top picks get overvalued is simply this phenomenon writ large. We’re all going to be privy to
The actual rule, as I stated the other day, is simple: the pick doesn’t make the player, the player makes the pick. Not all #1 and #2 picks are created equal. Before you salivate over having (or trading for) those picks you better make sure you know who you’re getting with them.
Tip #3: Mock Drafts will tend to overvalue both the surprise pick and picking for need.
Again, nobody reads these things on draft day unless they wrote them themselves. They all get read, and judged, before the draft. The obvious problem with this is that nobody really knows before the draft or we’d be making six figures captaining real drafts instead of typing up mock ones for GoogleAd chump change. But that doesn’t matter much because the goal of the mock draft isn’t so much being right (Who would remember that a year later?) as it is being agreeable and noticeable. The agreeable part accounts for the “picking for need” part. If both you and a team’s fan base perceive that the team needs a point guard your draft board is going to get (virtually) crumpled up and thrown away if you project a small forward for them. “That makes no sense!” they will say. But then a fair amount of actual draft picks don’t make sense to us mere mortals. To balance this you have to have the countercultural surprise move to make your board distinct and interesting. A fair amount of people will project Beasley over Rose and have a couple players rising meteorically and a couple others falling like rocks even at this early stage in the absence of data. Why? You don’t get attention for being right on 90% of your picks. You get attention when you correctly predicted something that only had a 10% chance of happening. You can get every other pick wrong but if you call O.J. Mayo as the #1 pick and it actually happens you’re a genius.
I am not saying that mock draft writers purposely doctor their boards. It’s not that crass or conscious. But when they review their work before publishing I would bet that most of them feel the greatest satisfaction about correctly matching a player for the majority of the teams' needs. I would also bet that they feel proprietary about the one or two picks that go against the grain and stand out from the norm. Given a choice, in the absence of other data, those are the kind of picks they’re going to choose.
In real life “best player available” is the norm for most picks, even if that doesn’t make sense by position. Once you choose a guy you have four-plus years to work him in and shuffle your roster accordingly. You never get a second chance at that draft pick if you blow it though. That’s why most teams will go with the talent. The difficult part is that the definition of "best" varies with the philosophies and personalities of the evaluators. Understanding those tendencies for even one GM is daunting. Taking the pulse of the whole league is near impossible.
In real life there are three or four flashy surprises speculated for every one that actually happens. The ones that do occur are mostly surprising because we didn't understand those philosophy and personality issues. The picks aren't actually radical, the GM's priorities are just different than what we assumed. In any case, most true surprises happen in the double-digit rather than the single-digit picks, exactly the opposite of the ones we remember from the mock drafts. Again, these are difficult to predict with consistency.
Tip #4: Despite all the national networks and "new media" coverage, your local beat writers with access to team officials and workouts are the best source of information on who your team is actually going to draft.
These guys have the inside track on information and usually a good relationship with team executives. They know what the sore spots and points of emphasis were from the year(s) prior. They know exactly who is coming in to work out and often how that workout went. They’re not going to ruin their relationship with the team by spilling beans before the soup is made, but when you start hearing positive reviews and repeated mentions of players’ names you get a pretty good idea who the team favors.
Tip #5: National networks are the best source of information about potential trades.
Corollary #5a: If you hear it too early, it probably won't happen.
It’s hard to gauge the trade winds when you’re sitting in one of the ports like the local guys are. Usually the GM is tight-lipped. Even if you get a hint, breaking the news early could also break trust. But the national guys ply the waters between organizations, monitoring the communication and byplay. They run less risk of cheesing off the GM by blabbing, as he can’t get to them, let alone cut them off. Not that the national networks are always right, mind you. The entertainment/interest variable comes into play here. And really a national reporter has far less to lose from being proven wrong than does your local beat writer. That means you'll get a fair amount of spaghetti thrown against the wall. But that doesn't change the fact that you'll probably hear the trades that do go down reported nationally first.
However almost every trade that involves the draft goes down right before, during, or right after the proceedings themselves. Don't jump too hard on things you hear in the intervening weeks, including assertions that top teams are entertaining trades for their picks. They'd be irresponsible not to, but it's more a case of the prettiest girl in school knowing everyone wants to take her to the prom, so she lets thirty guys ask her before she goes with the quarterback she had scoped out all along.
Tip #6: Despite all of this, some drafts break the mold.
Everything we’ve just described applies to your average draft…which frankly is the vast majority of them. But just like the familiar laws of nature such as gravity and time fall apart when applied to unimaginably large objects, some drafts are so big as to warp all of the rules. In these cases all the predictions of greatness are dead on. Mock drafts, national, and local sources tend to agree. It’s like a force of nature blows through and sweeps away all the normal caveats.
This confirms the assertion that not every draft, or #1 pick therein, is equal. You know when this is happening. You don't have to ask if this is the year. There’s no doubt. It’s all around you. What are the signs you’re seeing it?
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You’ve seen this player (or these players) coming for years. Nobody needs to cite their bona fides, tournament performances, stats, or the like. Everybody who knows anything about basketball already knows their name. We’re talking LeBron James and Shaq territory here.
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There’s little or no mention of the top pick(s) possibly being traded.
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There’s no need to mention that the class is deep, either because it’s already evident or because those top guys take all the attention. We don't care so much about the 11th pick this year. Sure she's your local beauty queen, but jeepers, Megan Fox just walked in the room.
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There’s comparatively little debate about the order of picks, at least for the upper echelon.
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This all intensifies, and rightfully so, when a 7-footer is the celebrated #1 pick.
Some folks are probably going to want to debate the last one. “Wait a minute Dave,” you’ll say, “7-footers are usually the most overrated guys in the draft!” That’s only partially true. 7-footers picked in the #3-#13 range are often overrated. Sometimes a 7-footer will slouch into the #1 position by default and turn out to be decent, but not great. (I’m trying hard not to glance in the direction of
Naturally I’ve added this last part to help frame the Oden issue for Blazer fans, but it also illustrates the larger philosophical point. All other things being equal it’s more likely that Oden will be a league-changing force than Derrick Rose will be. It’s also more likely that last year’s draft, which fulfilled the conditions of the unusual type of draft, was more singular and weighty than this year’s, at least at the top. While Blazer fans are certainly as prone as anybody else to fall prey to the fallacies in the first tips, the presence of the factors in the sixth mitigates those somewhat…or at least confirms that getting carried away has some validity. As those factors are absent this year, it would be prudent to take the assertions of the next month about this class and the individuals in it with a grain of salt. It’s not that they can’t be true…they very well could be. But many years they’re not.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Comments
Just had to join
to say this is some brilliant stuff. Brilliant.
by atthehive on May 23, 2008 12:33 AM PDT 0 recs
The kind of stuff that brings many of us here.
Can´t find it elsewhere.
It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.
by amlmart1 on
May 23, 2008 1:11 AM PDT
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Yeah!. They are wonderful well roasted or fried.
Wait a moment … I´m returning from my dictionary of americanisms consultation. They are wonderful, I prefer to bit them underdone.
It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.
by amlmart1 on
May 23, 2008 11:54 AM PDT
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Admit it, amlmart
You’re here for the “polla”.
by EngineerScotty on
May 23, 2008 12:16 PM PDT
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Houston, Houston, we have a problem...
"Polla” is chicken female but also a Spanish vulgar nickname for “willy”, “winnie”, “peepee”...
It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.
by amlmart1 on
May 23, 2008 1:25 PM PDT
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When i wrote about fried chicks i was playing with double meaning
little chickens (“pollitos”) and girls. I never wanted to play with “pollas”.
It never rains for everibody´s pleasure.
by amlmart1 on
May 23, 2008 1:29 PM PDT
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You didn't experiment in college?
Not that I have or anything….No sir….not at all… nope…(hangs head)
by Sabonis4Ever on
May 23, 2008 3:09 PM PDT
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Wow Dave
you’ve really outdone yourself this time. What an incredible post.
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy=Dynasty. Believe
by OdenRoyLMA on May 23, 2008 12:59 AM PDT 0 recs
Well done
I feal like I should click on all the advertising that i can find hear.
What did Oden say to the stork?. "Admit that you have got lost". amlmart
by ptwnblzr on May 23, 2008 2:41 AM PDT 0 recs
Nice thought!
None of the ad revenue here actually goes to the site, but your kind words are probably more important anyway.
—Dave
by Dave on
May 23, 2008 3:08 AM PDT
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Somehow I kinda think just maybe
that Truehoop may link to this post. Great stuff. Really.
by blazermaniac32 on May 23, 2008 7:30 AM PDT 0 recs
What I love about Dave's posts is
that if you look beyond the sports aspect you find metaphors for life and gentle lessons on how to live it.
"We comin along." Travis Outlaw
by annthefan on May 23, 2008 7:49 AM PDT 0 recs
Your post makes me evaluate myself.
I do remember hearing that this wasn’t going to be a strong draft class, up until it got near draft day, and then suddenly, it was a strong draft. Before the year started, Derrick Rose was not really thought to be the best prospect in the draft, but with Chris Paul blowing up, everyone began to see Derrick Rose as the next Chris Paul. I certainly wouldn’t sneeze at getting the guy, but he did kinda come out of nowhere to become a consensus #1. Sure, some saw him as maybe top ten or fifteen material, but #1? that was O.J. Mayo, and I think Beasley has been pretty big for a while too. I don’t know much more than that, since I started following the draft only when the Blazers were for sue going to be in the lottery.
I think you’ve got a point about Westbrook. It will be a few years before he’s better than even Jack. That doesn’t mean that you don’t get him if possible, but I’m not going to get too excited about whomever we pick at #13. Odds are he is not an immediate impact player, or for that matter, a decent player. Westbrook may be this draft’s Adam Morrison. But having Pritchard picking helps.
I’m of the opinion that since we didn’t win #1, I’m okay with what the team has going into next year just fine. Mabe that’s a little sour grapes, but with who we have, and who’s coming in, I have higher hopes for next year’s season than this year’s. I don’t think that will necessarily reflect in the standings though (which is what everyone else uses to gauge our season), but the Blazer’s will become more defined in who they are.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
by T Darkstar on May 23, 2008 8:04 AM PDT 0 recs
Many thought the '06 draft was weak
but it produced one of the best SG prospects to come along in a while.
by EngineerScotty on May 23, 2008 9:20 AM PDT 0 recs
I was going to mention the same.
I recall everyone saying 06 was a weak class, with a lot of talk about Toronto being smart and trading the 1st pick, because no one guy stood out.
Unlike Darkstar, I recall hearing that the 08 draft was expected to be pretty deep. It wasn’t expected to have two overwhelming choices like Oden & Durant, but it was felt there was a lot of talent.
My own feelings on the draft sort of vary. I can’t help getting infected by some of the stuff I read. For example last year I started getting high on Batum. Then I heard how he failed to show a lot of improvement this season and was inconsistent. Then I saw clips of Jawai. Watching him combined with my belief that a big rebounding machine off the bench, who could be stashed overseas for a year or two made me think that he’d be a pefect 2nd round selection for us. Next came Tyler Hanborough. While BE saw a lot of Kevin Love love. I thought Hanborough was a better choice. The most recent guy to hit my radar has been Alexander. (I think I was one of the earliest guys here talking about him.) The reports of how hard he works and how he’s improved his game every year and about his coachability were what drew my attention, more than just his athleticism. Finally, there is Courtney Lee. The character aspect of Courtney makes me think he’d be a good fit. The fact he was asked to switch from SG to PG, did so willingly and successfully and then accepted being moved back to SG this year, makes me think that he might pair very nicely with Roy.
My footnote guy: Goran Dragic. His reviews make me think he’d be an interesting long shot pick with one of our 2nd rounders. Mostly though it’s the fact he’s Slovene that has me hoping we draft him.
by timg56 on
May 23, 2008 10:11 AM PDT
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I would trust your recollection over mine.
I wouldn’t trust my recollection to remember what I said yesterday.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
by T Darkstar on
May 26, 2008 7:09 PM PDT
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Those are my favorite drafts
I love the ones where you look back and do the “I could have had a V8” thing. I also liked 2003 for how good the players after LeBron turned out to be. THAT was some draft.
—Dave
by Dave on
May 23, 2008 11:10 AM PDT
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It is strange to see
That Travis, JJ33, and Blake were all in the same draft as Lebron.
by Sabonis4Ever on
May 23, 2008 11:48 AM PDT
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2003 and 2007
I know it’s too early, but looking at the lottery and mid-1st round picks in 2007, I think it might compare favorably with 2003. EVERYONE picked in the lottery should be pretty good, with the only possible exceptions being Hawes and Yi (and both had good rookie years for the most part). If we were able to take a Julian Wright, Al Thornton, Rodney Stuckey, etc, with our #13 this year, we’d know this was a deep draft.
Everyone was bashing the 2006 draft, saying it was the ‘worst ever’, even when the season started and everyone was playing—of course, Roy and LMA were both hurt, so it didn’t help their draft class’s perceived value. It was lucky for us those draft picks were so undervalued, as we were able to steal some picks for not much at all. And the funny thing is, it was like even the pro GMs were being swayed by public opinion. Danny Ainge was quoted during the season a few times as saying the draft was weak and he got to get out of Raef’s deal as a big reason he traded Roy, and I remember a Steve Kerr Yahoo article saying it was maybe the worst draft ever.
Both are still GMs of very successful and prominent franchises, and were flat dead wrong. Even with just recent history, 2006 wasn’t the worst. Take 2000 or one of the other early decade draft classes that hurt the league so much.
2006 will go down as not bad, and 2007 should go down as one of the all time greats, along with 1984, 2003, and other drafts I can’t recall. I’m not sure about 2008, it seems nice, but doesn’t jump out at me yet. Maybe this is the smart year for a team in our position to trade the pick, because lottery picks are still highly valued and we’d get better value in a trade than the pick itself—of course, there has to be a guy another team loves at #13 and they gotta have someone we want. KP can figure it out, I’m delegating the duty to him.
Perhaps because so many rookies really helped their team in 2007, the 2008 draft class is being overrated. I don’t got a pulse on this draft yet…
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
May 23, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
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Interesting...
I was just thinking about how 07 was made deeper (thus making 06 shallow) by the age limit and by the Florida guys staying in school. Without those two circumstances the draft might have fielded Oden, Durrant (where would he have gone w/o that year in Texas?), Horford, Conley, Brewer, Noah,...
Craig Smith, Jordan Farmar, Thabo Sefolasha, Paul Millsap, Andrea Bargnani, Josh Boone, Kyle Lowry, Ronnie Brewer, Rajon Rondo, Daniel Gibson, Randy Foye, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, and Brandon Roy averaged over 20 minutes per game. 23.3% of the class of 2006 are trusted with lots of minutes. Despite the weakening of the 06 pool, that set of players still looks pretty good.
by lama on
May 23, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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And only two disappointments
Adam Morrison and Andrea. Tyrus hasn’t got enough burn to be a disappointment.
Oh wait… Sheldon Williams. Well, no one thought he’d be good. No disappointment there. The Hawks GM musta’ drafted him at #5 as a favor to an agent so he’d have a job after his Hawks career was over. Can’t see any other reason to PROMISE the draft pick to him so early on.
It wasn’t the 07 draft, but 06 was brutally underrated.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
May 23, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
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If you are projecting who the Blazers will draft at #13
this is no longer the John Nash show, when we’re dialed in at #13 with Telfair.
When the draft started in ‘06, did we know we’d actually be picking #2 when on lottery day we felt crushed by getting #4? Did we know that the Blazers would turn Telfair and Ratliff into Foye and then turn Foye into Roy? All the signs in that draft pointed to Portland taking Morrison at #4 and that was to be the extent of our draft.
KP in 2007 was almost as mysterious. We didn’t know until draft day if #1 would be Oden or Durant. Did we expect to pick up Rudy, Jones, and Frye for Zach? Much less the buyout on Steve Francis?
Obviously workouts and the ability to make trades influence KP’s decisions, and we’ve had none of that yet.
You can project who we take at 13. Just understand that KP will make you look like a fool for trying…
by Blazerholic on May 23, 2008 11:14 AM PDT 1 recs
Hahahahahaha...Hahahaha
Preach!
What did Oden say to the stork?. "Admit that you have got lost". amlmart
by ptwnblzr on
May 23, 2008 11:54 PM PDT
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Good post
A few notes:
The general consesus quite early was that the 2008 draft had 6 very good prospects… that the top 2008 prospects were better than the top six in 2007, but Oden and Durant were better than the top 2 in in 2008. I haven’t seen any experts refer to this as a weak draft class.
I agree, however, that many of the expecations for the players in the 7-15 range seem inflated consistently.
Rose and Beasely have been the top 2 for a relatively long time (October?), Beasely had as good or better season than Durant and as much hype as Durant early in the year.
I’d wager that Rose and Beasely are both future all-stars and that there will be a couple of really good players out of Mayo, Bayless, Lopez, Gordon, Randolph, Jordan, etc), but it’s really hard to predict who.
There have been plenty of number 1 and number 2 picks that were quite suspect AT the time of the draft: Bogut, Bargani, Marvin Williams, Olowokandi , etc. I don’t buy the assumption that it’s essentially random how good the top 2 players are. Sure, there is uncertainty, but it’s not as if there are sure things like Shaq and Duncan and everything else is a roll of the dice. There’s a continuum. Neither Rose nor Beasely are anywhere near as risky as Olowokandi or Kwame Brown were, for example.
I believe in demographics. The 18-20 population in the United States is peaking and is considerably larger than the cohort that graduated in in the late 90s. My hunch is that the 2005-209 draft class will all be a little above average.
by PoliSam on May 23, 2008 12:50 PM PDT 0 recs
My analysis
NBA teams are going to pick players. Some of these players will pan out and some won’t. The end.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 23, 2008 12:53 PM PDT 0 recs
I think that is the most accurate post I've read today.
I should have read it 3 days ago when you posted it though.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
by T Darkstar on
May 26, 2008 7:13 PM PDT
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lol
My grandma used to say, “Sometimes it rains, sometimes it doesn’t.”
Four
by tominhawaii on
May 27, 2008 12:51 AM PDT
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Hmm
This is almost like one of Ben’s posts. After I read it, all I could really think of saying is that I agree.
I guess this is on topic, but I see the difference of Rose and Beasley as one is a leader and one is a scorer. Chicago needs a low post scorer, but what they really need is a leader.
Two
by tominhawaii on May 23, 2008 1:35 PM PDT 0 recs
I would reply
if I had anything to add.
If you dont talk to your cats about catnip, who will?
by bow4meow on May 23, 2008 1:58 PM PDT 0 recs
2 blog moderators (blogerators??) down 26 to go!!
Great to know that we have one of the better blogerators™ in the biz.
Way to go Dave!!
I feel that this draft will be pretty good, using the 2003, 1984 and 1996 drafts as 100% I would rate this years draft as about an 80%, a few great players but quite a bit of quality throughout. The 2007 draft I would rate at about a 90% as Durant and Horford performed very well and should have great careers. Stuckey, Thorton, Young, Cook, and Fernandez are all looking like they can be solid starters in the years to come, then Oden is the jewel.
2006 I rate as about a 75% buoyed of course by Roy, LMA and Gay. Solid contributors in Rondo, Milsap, Farmar, Brewer, and Foye if he is ever healthy.
I suspect that this draft will be a little better than the 2006 but there will be some lower picks that teams will pass over and be able to be a great player for a bargain price.
by SpyderRyder on
May 23, 2008 5:13 PM PDT
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