I think the combo of Roy, Aldridge, and Oden has too much potential to be great to trade Aldridge for Rose. Big men who are impact players are harder to come by than guards who can make an impact.

Just thinking about the high/low game with LMA and Oden has me salivating for next year. They will cause some very difficult match-ups for years to come. Add Roy in there and I can hardly contain myself.

I mean…come on… the Spurs won a title with Avery Johnson as their PG. He had intangibles and I don’t mean to disrespect him the way Damon did back in the day… But Duncan, Robinson, Elliot, Avery Johnson… One of these guys is not like the others.

We can win a title without an all-star PG if we have a one two punch inside and Roy.

P.S. Dave, I saw a poll on the main page over at blogabull. So, I guess it is possible.

I agree that LaMarcus is untouchable, and I think Russell Westbrook is the best fit, though Rose is arguably the best player in the draft. I see a lot of people saying we don’t need an all-star point guard anyway, and Westbrook fills all the needs of the kind of role playing point Portland lacks. In my opinion.

... that the Bulls would do a trade for LaMarcus. If you offered LaMarcus, Travis and #13, then they might do it, but I still doubt it (note that KP would never offer that much either).

If it was LaMarcus+13 and the Bulls took the offer, the Blazers would have to do it in my opinion. LaMarcus is an excellent player (a very solid chance to be a 2-3 time allstar) but he’s not a franchise player the way Rose is likely to be.

In short, my take is that in order to get Rose, you would have to give up more than LaMarcus+13, and I don’t think KP would be willing to go above that price. So, if Pax and Pritch are on the phone the next few weeks, it’s likely that Kirk Hinrich (who I don’t think we’ll end up trading) and not Derrick Rose is the topic of conversation.

and here is why…

What do we need at power forward alongside Oden?
-To save space I am just going to say: “describe Aldridge”. Thats the answer. Every championship team has at least one dominate big, we will have two, plus Roy. (who needs another playmaker? wait, Rudy?)

I drool over a Oden/Aldridge front court. The high/low will be unguardable between LMA and a healthy Oden. Goodnight NBA, “pick your poison” will take on a whole different meaning when facing the Portland Trail Blazers…

He’s from Chicago, so he obviously grew up idolizing Michael Jordan as a hometown hero, and wore #23 in college. I can live with that. Not that I have any other choice. And it makes me feel good.

Rumor is that Miami covets Rose more than the Bulls do. While they certainly could use some inside presence, imagine having to defend a Rose/Wade backcourt. YIKES.

but now that hand checking is outlawed it sure has caused point guards to have a much bigger impact on todays game then it has in the past. Still wouldn’t give up LMA though. We can always get a point guard through free agency later. Our big three should attract someone good who wants a chance at a title.

I’d make the Aldridge, Webster & 13 pick trade for Rose & Duhon in a second. KP is going to get this done…

Derrick Rose will be a star and awesome playmaker. He can get to the hoop at will and finish. Great vision on the court. Pushes the ball well on the fast break. All the physical tools to become the best PG in the NBA. Mature and a leader.

Oden + Rose would be insane. No disrespect to LMA, but Rose will be the superior player.

None of this is going to happen.

... from everything I’ve read, this guy is a great PG. When is he available to the Blazers? Frankly, I’d like to see the first and second round picks go away for a year and instead add some sage on-court wisdom ala Scott Pippen (“don’t call it a comeback”). Bring in a young stud like Koponen and have the core gel a little more before tossing another youngster in there. Kopo is already 21; right about middle-age on our team, right?
Egh, but what do I know? Truth is, if there is some serious baller available in the draft at 13, perhaps a sleeper of some sort, nab him up.
But my real questions is: When is Kopo availablo’?

Dave nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I vote no.

But I fully admit there could be regrets. What if Rose turns out to be as good as Deron Williams or Chris Paul?

Here is why I don’t do this deal:

1) How many teams have a front line that would consist of a powerful center and a scoring power forward with length? The only one that comes to mind is Phoenix and Shaq is past his prime. Think about the high low game, think about the defensive presence that these two will have. If they both are the players we think they will be, we conceivably will own the paint on both ends of the court. How many teams can honestly say that? None. New Orleans in a stretch. How many can say they have a good to great point guard and a good to great Center/Interior Presence. Quite a few (Utah, New Orleans, San Antonio, L*kers to name 5) Do you really want to have the same makeup as these teams? Yes they are all Championship contenders, but we want to win Championships not just contend.
2) With those two do we really need a penetrating point guard? I don’t think so especially since we already have a guard who can penetrate and a pretty darn good one at that (Roy of course!). What we really need is a tough defensive PG and a good spot up shooter.
I would rather keep things as they are, maybe go for Hinrich instead as I think a guard like that would be a better fit for our team.

Remember Walton and Lucas!

This is just silly.

...Kevin Garnett for Dwayne Wade?

If LMA and Rose both live up to their potentials, this is what you would get.

Personally, I wouldn’t do it.

“You can’t teach height” may be cliche, but it’s true nonetheless.

Besides, the last thing we need is a flashy score-first point guard to take the ball out of Roy’s hands in the backcourt. The kind of point guard that’s going to win championships for Portland is going to be one of the type who defends well, gets good assist numbers, can hit the “3” reliably when he’s open, and doesn’t rock the boat for the Oden/Roy dynamic. Rose is simply not this kind of player. Other players are available who would do this much better for us. (Calderon, Heinrich, etc)

You don’t fill a role-player spot with a superstar. (See Ray Allen)

It’s a tough call because it would make the Blazers younger, but Rose would fit perfectly with Oden and Roy.

A few random points:

Rose is a pass-first point guard who would be help Oden get easy looks. He would take away some play-making responsibilties from Roy, but he’s not the kind of player that needs the ball in his hands every play. Note that Chris Douglas-Roberts was the C-USA player of the year AFTER Rose arrived.

Rose is extremely athletic and should be a great defender… eventually.

Frye and Outlaw are a decent combo at PF… especially next to Oden. By contrast, the Blazers current PG are a huge liability. Moreover, it seems like finding a viable grunt at PF (like Milsaps or Scola) is far, far easier than finding a viable PG.

It makes me a little nervous that there few examples of dynasties with “twin-towers.” Houston struggled with theirs (though injuries were a problem). The Spurs won with Duncan and Robinson, but they weren’t together long enough to know if it was a fluke or an unbeatable combination. Granted, not a lot of teams have had twin-towers to test out whether or not it’s a viable combination, but that doesn’t mean it would definitely work.

Moreover, The NBA has made a concerted effort to make driving to the basket an easier way to score than posting up. 10-15 years ago, I’d stick with Aldridge over Rose. Now, I’d prefer Rose, who can penetrate and has the ability to score and find the open man.

Most importantly, my gut tells me Rose will be a better player than Aldridge before long. There is more uncertainty involved with Rose because he’s just coming out of college, but he has a much better chance of being a future HOF than Aldridge. I think most experts would agree. And, I thnk Chicago would not do this trade, which indicates that it would be good for us.

Those calling us homers will see the real LMA in 2 years.

‘Cause this deserves a “Hell no!”

LMA is a great fit for this team. He’s a team player, he fits our culture, he’s proven himself on an NBA court, and he’ll be even better when paired with Oden. I enjoyed watching Rose in the tournament and there’s an excellent chance he’ll be a great player but the draft is a crap shoot. Nobody really knows for sure how he’s going to turn out . At some point you have to quit dreamng of other people’s ponies and win with the horses you have. LMA is going to lead us to a lot of wins.

I agree with Blog a Bull’s point that if the Bulls need an Aldridge-type so bad (which they do), why not just take Beasley (which they should)? With Noah and Thomas both being defensive specialist, they’re in desperate need of low post scoring to take pressure off their perimeter players. Though Beasley isn’t getting the level of hype that Rose is getting, he had an outstanding season and fills a bigger need for the Bulls.

I disagree with Blog a Bull’s other point. If Tyrus Thomas couldn’t earn minutes on a 32-49 team how is he ever going get anywhere near LMA’s level?

Aldridge has shown nice progression. He matches up well with Bosh and seems to have the same playing style. He’ll also fit in well with Oden. If he’s a top 5 PF and Rose is a top 3 pg, I’ll take that pf. They’re hard to find and elite players and the 4 AND 5 as well as the two… I’ll take it. It allows us to become a strong defensive team and that’s what wins championships.

Rose is unproven, Aldridge isn’t.

Aldridge’s weakness is that he needs to focus more on scoring in the post when Oden is sitting out. He needs some interior toughness.

Is low rebounding and blocks, as other blazer fans have pointed out to me, is due in a large part (but not all) to the style that Portland was playing. I assume we’ll be mixing up that style and coupled with Oden Aldridge will have that 20, 10 year I was hoping for last year (I think it was 20/8 but whatever).

I am surprised to read how undervalued Aldridge is. He’s a better player than other fans, experts and even some of us give him credit for. I expect a nice jump in production from him next year due to his experience AND the addition of Oden.

Time will tell of course.

Also, the bulls blog made comment that Kirk would be an excellent fit with Roy. If that’s the case, I may not be opposed to looking into a possible trade. Particularly if we could work in receiving a future first rounder as well.

At least not as formulated here.

As someone else mentioned, Chris Duhon is a UFA and wouldn’t be part of any trade. I doubt Chicago re-signs him, unless they were asked to do so as part of a sign-and-trade; but then why bother-Duhon ain’t worth a penny more than the MLE, and besides-he has Dook germs all over him. (Sorry, McBob…) :)

Courtesy of a new fanpost. The post essentially duplicated/extended this conversation so the comment belongs here. A reminder to keep discussions in the same place and to save fanposts for new or different topics, as fanpost space on the front page is limited.

The comment:

Remember when Shaq first came into the league and everyone went crazy trying to find the next huge unstoppable center? Shaq had a lot to do with Kwame Brown and Eddy Curry getting drafted so high. Is it possible that Chris Paul and Deron Williams have something to do with the hype surrounding Rose?

Nothing against Rose, I have been high on his game since he was a junior in high school. I just think all this hysteria over Rose might be a slight overreaction. If this PG trend continues you will see the same thing with BRANDON JENNINGS next year.

This is from Chad Ford at ESPN today.

“Paxson told ESPN Radio on Wednesday that he would be open to trade offers for the No. 1 pick. Within hours we had our first rumor. The Blazers were willing to send LaMarcus Aldridge to the Bulls for the chance to draft Rose.

Ummm … not so fast. I contacted a source inside the Blazers. They haven’t made an offer, and while certainly interested in finding a way to get the No. 1 pick, don’t sound inclined to give up Aldridge.

Still, the deal would’ve been interesting. Aldridge would be a good fit on the Bulls. But the irony of the whole thing would be thick. The Bulls traded the draft rights to Aldridge to the Blazers for the draft rights of Tyrus Thomas. Trading back for Aldridge would be tantamount to admitting they made the wrong choice two years ago. “

I’d much rather have PG liabilities than PF ones. We just need a good PG, not a great one.

No trading our Big 3 for anyone.

LMA fits Oden too perfectly (yes, yes, in theory; Oden and him ain’t played yet). Them together is worth more than just about ANY Pg.

I like Blog a Bull, I’ve posted there a bit, but the one thing I CAN’T STAND is how much they want and need LMA to be bad. They wish for him to suck so much, and he just plain doesn’t, that they overcompensate by saying Tyrus would be good with playing time or that LMA is just a jump shooting softie who does nothing else. I want Tyrus to be good, I ain’t mad at him! Even if he was the better player.

It should be clear by now that passing up LMA was a mistake, and even the guy who runs the site won’t admit it. Tyrus will be good, but he isn’t a post scorer, and LMA has a lot more potential.

Obviously we made a mistake with Martell over Deron/Paul. LMA over Tyrus isn’t at that level, but LMA is already the best young post scorer in the West (and plays both ways, unlike Al-Bo Jefferson) with much more room for improvement. He can score inside and obviously out. He blocks shots, runs, is a unselfish passer and a team player. He only boarded about 8 a game, but that improved throughout the season as well. He is so clearly better than Tyrus Thomas or Bargnani it isn’t even funny.

And that’s fine, what’s it matter? Paxson messed up, Bulls’ fans didn’t. But they are confusing the two.

Getting the #1 pick helps erase mistakes like that—and yes, not taking LMA or Roy was a big mistake for a athletic tweener who doesn’t have much skill.

And I think they should let Tyrus free on the court and let him create chaos. He has heaps and heaps of athletic ability, and whether he refines it or not, he can do stuff that they don’t allow him to do.

But he hasn’t shown one area he is better than LaMarcus Aldridge at, besides pure athleticism.

Rose should be good, but we don’t need the best PG in the world to win it all. No championship team ever has except for the Isiah-led Pistons. We got a great scoring playmaker in Roy, and two twin towers whose skills compliment each other. I don’t break up that core for anyone short of a Lebron who doesn’t want to leave for NY—so, no one exists who I’d break it up for. The three together is better than whoever you could add to it.

Mortimer

Keeping Aldridge – also known as people with a brain

or Trading him for Rose – also known as the grass is always greener, even though we can’t see it.

We have #13, #33, #36, and #55.
Trade #33 and #36 for #15-20
Trade Jack and #55 and cash for #10-15,
Trade #10-15 and #15-20 for #4-7,
Trade #4-7 and #13 and cash to Miami for #2
Trade #2, Frye, and Sergio to Chicago for ROSE

We lose: #13, #33, #36, #55, Frye, Jack, Sergio, and cash
We get: Derrick Rose

We needed to consolidate our rotation anyway.
Now we have:
Rose/Blake
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Outlaw
Aldridge/McBob
Oden/Pryz

And we get to keep RLEC!

C’mon KP, make it hap’n please?

He could be another Paul or Williams. Or not. Quick PG’s are all the rage right now and sports teams are famous for following the latest hot trend. But except for Tony Parker, name the last PG who took his team to a title? That would be – Isiah Thomas.

Aldridge, on the other hand, has a track record. We know what he can already do. Will he become dominant? That’s almost as much up in the air as whether Rose will become the next great PG. But at least we know his floor. Rose’s floor could be another slightly above average NBA PG. Think Andre Miller, Derek Fisher, Mike Bibby.

Blazer fans agreeing to trade Aldridge for Rose are relying on emotion and not hard thinking. If Pritchard decides to make this deal, that’s one thing. He at least has practical experience in evaluating talent. But for the rest of us – it’s just plain foolish. I doubt there is a single person here who could land a job as an NBA scout or talent evaluator.

Some fine points have already been made. Why trade big for small? Why trade established for developing? Is Rose going to be so good that we wished we would have? Maybe, but that’s the game. I was all for him if we won the draft, don’t get me wrong, but to give up someone whom we have invested a lot of time and emotion into for potential? Even amazing potential? Nah. Aldridge is not a player I want to give up. We already know he fits into what we have going on the court. We already know he buys into the culture KP’s building. We already know, even if he doesn’t get any better (and he will get better with more strength), we know what he can do. Rose might be better, Rose might fit in perfectly, Rose might be the best thing ever. But this is definitely a bird in the hand is worth to in the bush situation.

I don’t blame Chicago for not thinking that Aldridge is enough to get Rose. The emotional high from getting the #1 pick is far more valuable than the player they passed on two years ago. And they don’t have to give up anything to get Rose. If I were them, I wouldn’t trade it either. This trade, if it went down, I think would be disappointing to the fans of both teams. Therefore, it should be a no go.

I’ve seen a lot of excellent analysis but I want to chip in a bit.

It seems to me people are cherry picking both sides of the argument people complain that D. Rose is an unproven quantity and should “Play a game first” yet everyone assumes Oden is a lock for HOF (Please god let this be true). So that is a ridiculous statement and should be thrown straight out.

People are mostly wondering about whether D. Rose or LMA would help us win a championship. I think both could help us win a championship. So then it comes down to who has the better package for this team and what are their strengths and weakness and what are the relative values of their positions?

I think that it is a well known fact that the Center position in the rarest and most coveted position. Next in line is the ultra-skilled PG easily the hardest position to master and the position after center most filled with so-so players in the league. Power forward is probably the next most coveted with SG and SF being a dime a dozen.

By the way if you take the league back to 1980 and count up championships won by dominant PG’s and dominant centers you have. 5 rings for Magic, 2 rings for Isaiah Vs. 4 rings for a PF driven team Duncan and the spurs.

Oh wait Duncan had a top shelf PG for a couple of those rings…

Also the other 6 non-Jordan rings during that era were by Shaq (4) and Olajuwon (2).

So it looks like Centers and PG’s are definitely the way to go and if you take Duncan out of the equation you have a REALLY hard time finding a PF who led their team to anywhere other then frustration. Read: Barkley, Karl Malone, Tom Chambers etc. etc.

By position it would seem D. Rose would be a rare and precious commodity assuming – las we are all doing with Oden – that he will be an excellent player. I think that anyone who DOESN’T think Rose is going to be an excellent player is as silly as Bulls fans saying TT will surpass LMA or that LMA sucks.

So let me put that to rest with my authoritative but meaningless opinion. They will both be great for their position.

So now what about individual skills?

LMA

Strengths: Excellent outside touch to 18 feet, myriad and improving post moves, can handle a double team, is a decent rebounder especially on offense, has shown marked improvement on weak side blocks, is a good to man defender, very fast for his size. Almost certainly will be one of the best PF’s in the league for some time (unlike TT).

Weaknesses: Strength, inability to consistently establish an inside position in the post (strength again), needs to work on back to the basket moves, must become a better defensive rebounder, needs to develop killer instinct and will to dominate.

Rose

Strengths: Excellent ball handler, Blinding speed, excellent size for his position, Good defender with potential to become great, will to dominate and killer instinct repeatedly shown, excellent slasher, great on the fast break distributing or finishing, great rebounder for his position, can dominate the ball or defer to team mates.

Weakness: Needs to create more opportunities for team mates, must develop long ball, needs to work on jump shot, room for improvement on defense.

So then given the above…what do the blazers most need on this team? And is it something Rose or LMA bring or something we might already have on our team?

The blazers suffered when we shot the long ball inconsistently. Neither Rose nor LMA will bring this talent although Rose might develop it. Martell, JJ33, or Rudy could plug this hole.

The blazers suffered on rebounding. LMA had all the opportunities in the world to show dominant rebounding and he rarely came through. Near the end of the season Frye appeared to be a better rebounder although that is the ONLY area he is better then LMA. Rose could help with back court rebounding but this wouldn’t be his contribution. Frye, and of course Oden can take care of this need. Oden likely will take care of the problem single AND doublehandedly.

The blazers were repeatedly burned by penetrating PG’s and to a lesser extent 2 guards. Obviously LMA won’t help with this and no one with the possible exception of Martell showed any signs of doing this. Rose would help TREMENDOUSLY in this area.

The blazers suffered from an inability to create on the offense unless B. Roy took over. LMA didn’t help at all here, Rose would. Unless Rudy gains 20 – 35 lbs over the summer it is unlikely he will help in this regard.

The blazers suffered and were exposed repeatedly as a poor ball handling club that frequently got burned by trapping defenses. Again LMA no help Rose would break this.

The blazers never had much in the way of fast break offense except for rare flashes from Sergio. LMA did not help in this regard.

The blazers had weak interior defense. LMA certainly made us a better team in this regard but was not a show stopper by any means even when paired with a more then adequate defender in Przybilla.

The blazers WILL need someone to take the pressure off of Oden by knocking down the shot when he is doubled. LMA would EXCEL at this and would create a nightmare scenario for other teams…However, both Outlaw and Frye could perform this function.

I’m probably missing a few things here but this is my conclusion. Assuming a full potential being reached by LMA and Rose who would help the Blazers more?

I gotta go with Rose. Killer instinct, great defense, take pressure off Roy on both ends of the court and more potential then you can shake a stick at. LMA is far more replaceable with Outlaw and Frye around then a top shelf PG.

LMA is a great player but I feel he lacks the killer instinct. I also think he is a big disappointment on the boards an area where he should flourish. I will gladly keep LMA and I think he would help us win championships, but given the chance to trade LMA, Jack + some picks…I think you have GOT to pull the trigger on that.

P.S. Hire Avery Johnson we don’t even need to trade for this!

I know this a Rose thread but we’re talking about trading for the number 1 pick which could be used on either player.

Aldridge+other guy (probably martell/outlaw) +13th for Beasley, so Aldridge for Beasley.

Beasley is a 3 or a 4, so we could play small with him at the 4 and webster/outlaw at the 3 or big with Beasley at the 3 and Frye at the 4.

Lineup-
Blake/Sergio
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Outlaw
Beasley/Frye
Oden/Pryz

Frye has a game that is very similar to Aldridge and would make a decent starter. I personally think Beasley’s character issues are overblown so it comes down to the contrasting stlyes of Aldridge and Beasley. What does everyone think?