Ranking the league's brightest stars: Top 25 PGs
Ok, I want to join the PG fray with a fanpost of my own. We all know the NBA is a business, so it doesn’t make sense to purely rank the players only by their talent or stats, or by some other qualitative measure (though those factors do matter). We gotta' throw in things like salary as well. Obviously, if a player is in the middle of a very reasonable contract, he deserves to get a boost in the rankings.
I'm not a big fan of the efficiency thing, but I think it's the easiest way to quickly summarize a player statistically. For those of you unfamiliar with the system, it goes something like this:
EFF = ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers))
I’ll list Efficiency Per Game (EPG) for each player, which will give a simple snapshot of his stats.
I’ll also consider a player’s age and potential. All else being equal, a franchise would probably prefer a 25 year-old point guard to a 32 year-old point guard, right? Essentially, the order of this list comes down to this question – would you trade Player X for Player Y, assuming the goal is to win a title in the next three seasons at a reasonable payroll?
To summarize, there are four major factors I’ll consider: talent (based on statistical performance and "eye evaluation"), contract, age and potential (somewhat subjective, but I'll do my best).
Without further ado, here is my top 25 point guards, ranked by total value:
1. Chris Paul, Hornets
Age: 23
EPG: 27.8
Contract: two years, $10.6 M ($5.3 M per)
Should we have taken this guy over Martell? The debate will rage on for decades. In any case, he is destroying the league, and almost snatched the MVP from K*be this year. That would have been nice.
2. Deron Williams, Jazz
Age: 23
EPG: 23.0
Contract: two years, $11.8 M ($5.9 M per)
Williams is bigger and stronger than Paul and is also a better outside shooter. However, he lacks the quickness, ball handling and court vision of Paul.
3. Tony Parker, Spurs
Age: 25
EPG: 16.9
Contract: three years, $37.7 M ($12.6 M per)
Parker is young, speedy and a proven player in the clutch (I recently compared him to our own Brandon Roy in a fanpost . Hate to self-promote, but I thought it was a great read). Parker's salary is fairly reasonable for a player of his caliber. His defense is mediocre at best.
4. Baron Davis, Warriors
Age: 29
EPG: 22.6
Contract: free agent / player option for one year, $17.2 M
Davis is a fierce competitor and can get to the basket at almost any time, but he’s a little too injury-prone for my tastes. His next contract is up in the air, but he’ll probably ask for close to the max. He's also got a fairly interesting blog.
5. Steve Nash, Suns
Age: 34
EPG: 22.5
Contract: two years, $25.4 M ($12.7 M per)
One of the best shooters in the league, hands down. He has lost a half step to his game, but that hasn't stopped him from being a solid point guard (just not one who can keep up with Williams, Parker, or Paul). He’s still a joy to watch in the open court and in a pick and roll, but his defense is a liability.
6. Chauncey Billups, Pistons
Age: 31
EPG: 19.6
Contract: three years, $36.3 M ($12.1 M per)
Mr. "Big Shot" is getting older, but he’s a proven winner and should have a few good years left. He's showing good stuff in the playoffs so far. His affordable contract puts him ahead of the next few guys.
7. Gilbert Arenas, Wizards
Age: 26
EPG: 15.6
Contract: free agent
There is no doubt that Agent Zero is extremely talented (especially offensively), but he’ll be looking for a max contract and I don’t know if an expensive, shoot-first point guard is the way to build a championship contender. Nevertheless, at least whoever gets him owns bragging rights for his mad Halo 3 skills.
8. Monta Ellis, Warriors
Age: 22
EPG: 20.4
Contract: free agent
Ellis is more of a scoring guard than a pure point guard, but I think he has the tools to run a team. With his contract status up in the air, it’s tough to get a gauge on his true value.
9. Jose Calderon, Raptors
Age: 26
EPG: 17.9
Contract: restricted free agent
On a per minute basis, Calderon is better than big names like Jason Kidd, AI and Baron Davis. He’s an amazing shooter (43% from 3PT) and has great court vision (8.3 apg). Can we steal him and leave the Raptors in the dust with TJ Ford? Only time and KP will tell...
10. Devin Harris, Nets
Age: 25
EPG: 15.8
Contract: five years, $42.3 M ($8.5 M per)
Harris is a lightning-quick point guard with an improving jumper, and can play some defense. This season, he set career highs in points, assists, steals and three-point percentage and the Mavs still decided to trade him away. Feel free to cast your vote for who's better between Harris and Calderon in Tubba's ever-popular fanpost .
11. Allen Iverson, Nuggets
Age: 32
EPG: 23.3
Contract: one year, $23.9 M
AI is fearless and is one of the league’s most prolific scorers, although he sure isn't much of a team player. He hasn’t lost a step, but one wonders how much more abuse his body can take. His high price tag makes him a risky proposition.
12. Jason Kidd, Mavs
Age: 35
EPG: 20.5
Contract: one year, $21.4 M
Kidd has trouble guarding quicker point guards and is not a consistent shooter. At his current price tag, I don’t think he’s a championship piece
13. Rajon Rondo, Celtics
Age: 22
EPG: 14.0
Contract: three years, $8.1 M ($2.7 M per)
The C’s couldn’t have asked for much more from Rondo this season. He plays good defense, distributes and scores when necessary. And he, too, has a fun blog to read.
14. Jameer Nelson, Magic
Age: 26
EPG: 13.9
Contract: five years, $33.6 M ($6.7 M per)
Nelson isn’t as quick as he should be for his size, but he makes up for it with strength. He’s a terrific shooter (41% from 3PT) and an improving playmaker. I loved watching him play at St. Joe's.
15. Kirk Hinrich, Bulls
Age: 27
EPG: 13.8
Contract: four years, $36.5 M ($9.1 M per)
Hinrich just had a brutal season in which he set career lows in points, assists, rebounds, FG% and 3PT%. Will the real Kirk Hinrich please stand up? (Thanks to Winchester for offering those stats in a recent fanpost. ) I actually considered moving Hinrich down a few more, simply because of the most awesome fanpost title over at Blog-A-Bull: The official "I just plain don't like Hinrich and can't wait for him to get out" fanpost.
16. Andre Miller, 76ers
Age: 32
EPG: 18.7
Contract: one year, $10.0 M
Miller set a career high in points leading the young Sixers. He was never blessed with great quickness, so age may hurt him more than most.
17. Mo Williams, Bucks
Age: 25
EPG: 18.0
Contract: four years, $35.0 M ($8.8 M per)
Still has too much of a shoot-first mentality and his effort on defense is inconsistent, but Williams is an extremely talented guard who could use a summer watching film of past NBA point-guard greats.
18. Raymond Felton, Bobcats
Age: 23
EPG: 15.1
Contract: two years, $9.7 M ($4.9 M per)
With Larry Brown in town, this will be a make-or-break season for Felton. He’s a talented playmaker, but his career FG% is under 40%. Not good. It was either Wheels or Rice who commented that he'd be a good fit in our system. I can't see that happening, but I've been known to be wrong on occasion...
19. Mike Bibby, Hawks
Age: 29
EPG: 14.5
Contract: one year, $15.2 M
Bibby is expensive for what he brings to the table these days, and his FG% (41%) is taking a slight dive. He improved his assist numbers with the Hawks, but seems to have a lot of mileage for a 29 year-old. Nice work against the C's this year.
20. Leandro Barbosa, Suns
Age: 25
EPG: 13.8
Contract: three years, $19.8 M ($6.6 M per)
Barbosa is lightning fast and a good shooter, which makes him a very dangerous scorer. He’s not a natural ball handler or distributor.
21. Mike Conley, Grizzlies
Age: 20
EPG: 9.8
Contract: three years, $12.4 M ($4.1 M per)
Conley was nagged by injuries in his rookie season, but he didn’t do anything to dispel the notion that he’s a terrific prospect. He just needs to learn the position in the NBA and improve that jumper. He's yet another Yardbarker blogger.
22. Jordan Farmar, Lakers
Age: 21
EPG: 9.2
Contract: three years, $5.9 M ($2.0 M per)
Farmar’s prospects were looking better before the Utah series, but he was great all season off the Laker bench and there’s no reason to think this current funk is permanent.
23. T.J. Ford, Raptors
Age: 25
EPG: 13.4
Contract: two years, $16.5 M ($8.3 M per)
On a per-minute basis, Ford is an ok player. But the big question surrounding Ford is his durability, as he has missed 38% of games over his five seasons in the league. Hopefully the Raptors find reason to fall in love with him this summer, and hopefully they suddenly find Jack appealing, and hopefully a 4th Presidential candidate that I actually like bursts onto the scene. Hopefully.
24. Nate Robinson, Knicks
Age: 23
EPG: 11.3
Contract: two years, $4.9 M ($2.5 M per)
More of a scorer than a distributor, it might be tough for Robinson to land a starting gig at 5’9" if he isn’t going to be more of a playmaker. I think he's really fun to watch. Reminds me of Ruben Patterson, sans the character issues.
25. Jason Terry, Mavs
Age: 30
EPG: 14.2
Contract: four years, $41.1 M ($10.3 M per)
There is no doubt Terry is an ok player, but he really hasn't done much since the Mavs collapsed. Also, that contract might be a beast in its final two years.
You may have noticed I didn't evaluate our own point guards, namely, Blake, Jack, and Sergio. I didn't feel any of these guys made the top 25, though I think both Blake and Jack would be "on the bubble." For a great analysis of all three of them, plus some thoughts on B-Roy and Rudy playing PG, check out EngineerScotty's great fanpost analyzing, considering, re-considering, and overanalyzing some PGs on our own team.
As always, feel free to make fun of my analysis, grammar (I'm sure tominhawaii will be on the lookout for comma splices), or the fact that I want Damon Stoudamire back if our "PG of the future" doesn't pan out.
And if John Paulsen is out there, much thanks bro.
Oh, and if you want my vote for our PG of the future:
12 recs |
47 comments
Comments
It's interesting...
When one considers that the top free agents on the list are going to be paid handsomely (Calderon will get AT LEAST 7-8 million a year to start out with) and that Hinrich’s contract decreases, he is not as overpaid as I first imagined. Thanks for the work prez! It is quite interesting.
by The Graduate on May 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I plan to do an evaluation of shooting guards someday, once I get some spare time.
But yah, I’d rank him up there at three. He’s younger and has a better salary situation than Parker. You could argue three or four, but I’m a homer ;-)
Thanks PA, KP, Nate, BRoy, LMA, GO, 'Tell, Trout, JJ's, Buffet, Blake (not Blakey), Thrilla Hundred-dolla Billa, McBob (just 'cuz you're cool), Sergio (just 'cuz you've got flash), and Raef (ummm...just 'cuz)....and Dean Demo, Maurice, Monty (You rock Monty!), Bill Bayno (good luck with your new job), Bobby, Jay, and everyone else I'm forgetting (scouts, other front office people) who made the Return of Rip City possible, including the media (Mike B., Casey, Dave, Ben). And tominhawaii. Can't forget him.
by prezofdeath on May 21, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
about halfway through the season I read some articles that were saying Brandon Roy is the best PG in the league. He doesn’t get credit for it because he doesn’t officially have that title, but if I was hard pressed to pick I think I might go with him over Paul.
Things have probably changed now that Paul did so well in the playoffs, but what Brandon Roy does on defense compared to Paul is off the charts.
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on May 21, 2008 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you got to keep in mind that Roy wouldn't be that good of a defender if he was guarding pg's
If it fills a need, if it fills a rebuilding situation. And my goal is to fill and rebuild and I am not going to be shortsighted.
- Isiah Thomas
by JTDuck22 on May 22, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
your list is just about perfect by the way. Monta Ellis might be a little higher for me, he has a billion times more upside than Gilbert Arenas, and he doesn’t have a bad knee. If the Warriors make it to the playoffs next year and Ellis gets another chance to shine on the national stage, I think you can expect him to reach super-star status. I love what he does on the court, and people don’t talk about him enough around here. Best 40th pick of all time?
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on May 21, 2008 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You think Roy is better than Paul on D?
What about Paul’s insane 3.77 steals per game or whatever he gets? Do you think Roy does a better job “shutting people down”
Thanks PA, KP, Nate, BRoy, LMA, GO, 'Tell, Trout, JJ's, Buffet, Blake (not Blakey), Thrilla Hundred-dolla Billa, McBob (just 'cuz you're cool), Sergio (just 'cuz you've got flash), and Raef (ummm...just 'cuz)....and Dean Demo, Maurice, Monty (You rock Monty!), Bill Bayno (good luck with your new job), Bobby, Jay, and everyone else I'm forgetting (scouts, other front office people) who made the Return of Rip City possible, including the media (Mike B., Casey, Dave, Ben). And tominhawaii. Can't forget him.
by prezofdeath on May 21, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
YES.
Paul is widely considered a below average defender and there are mountains of evidence to back this up. Even Hornet blogers know it’s true.
http://atthehive.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/is-chris-paul-bad-at-defense/
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
by Winchester on May 21, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good link
But theoretically, wouldn’t the stats they use depend on who your backup guard is? Because it’s determined on how your team does without you? I’ve never been good at determining who’s good defensively. Other than Reuben. ‘Cuz he’s the Kobe Stoppa!
Thanks PA, KP, Nate, BRoy, LMA, GO, 'Tell, Trout, JJ's, Buffet, Blake (not Blakey), Thrilla Hundred-dolla Billa, McBob (just 'cuz you're cool), Sergio (just 'cuz you've got flash), and Raef (ummm...just 'cuz)....and Dean Demo, Maurice, Monty (You rock Monty!), Bill Bayno (good luck with your new job), Bobby, Jay, and everyone else I'm forgetting (scouts, other front office people) who made the Return of Rip City possible, including the media (Mike B., Casey, Dave, Ben). And tominhawaii. Can't forget him.
by prezofdeath on May 21, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TrueHoop Article
There was an article on TrueHoop last week that looked at CP3’s defense. Here is one of the money quotes:
That’s what Chris Paul can offer a defense: Non-stop effort, smarts, and playing within the scheme. But he’s not able to do many of the things that bigger guards can do, which, I suspect, is why the numbers show the Hornets have not been as effective on defense when he is on the floor
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-199/When-Chris-Paul-Plays-Defense.html
by tingeyga on May 21, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steals are a bit overrated
Many result from gambling on defense. Juan Dixon got a lot of steals-is he a good defender? No. Lots of guys in the league have been known to get lots of steals, but are poor one-on-one defenders. One thing to look for-where do a guy’s steals come from—playing the passing lanes? Help defense (doubling on a big man and picking his pocket)? Or stripping the guy you are guarding?
Paul is a good defender, but those who rate him an elite defender are overrating him. Guards with similar quickness-say, a Tony Parker-can score on Paul. Guards who are bigger-say, Deron Williams-abuse him regularly. Most of the time, Paul more than returns the favor, which is why he’s an elite point guard.
Brandon is probably a better fundamental defender; one who doesn’t go for strips but instead tries to keep his guy from getting off a good shot. Brandon’s weakness is that he can be beaten by guys who are a lot quicker-including Paul-as well as by guys who are a lot stronger—like LeBron.
The interesting compare with Brandon, if he moves to the point, isn’t Paul—it’s Deron Williams.
by EngineerScotty on May 21, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are a lot of overrated...
that is partly why I am so impressed with Hinrich being second team all-defense two years ago. He averaged a little over a steal per game.
by The Graduate on May 25, 2008 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and blocks too...
The guy posting a tons of blocks per game is usually getting them by gambling and playing out of position.
good post ES
by mcmillion on May 25, 2008 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any Blazer PG will look better next year...
...with Greg Oden to throw it to.
Not to dis Paul, but one reason he’s so effective is because of Tyson Chandler. The two run the pick-and-roll to perfection (as did Stockton and Malone), and unlike Prz-if the big man guarding Chandler comes out to challenge Paul, Paul just lobs it to Chandler who throws it down. Likewise, any time a big man dares come out to assist whoever has to guard Paul, even if not on a pick-leaving Chandler and West unguarded under the hoop-either one-is a dunk.
That is the difference between a Tyson Chandler and a Joel Przybilla; our center last year, despite his greatness on D, didn’t need to be guarded. And Oden should be FAR beastlier than TC.
by EngineerScotty on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thats dirty talk..
H R
On what was running through his mind when the first three numbers came up in the Blazers’ favor:
"I was getting pretty excited. ... We got pretty close, but you know, no cigar. ... But I was talking to (Assistant GM) Tom Penn and, you know, we don’t make luck our policy." Kaypee!
by ptwnblzr on May 21, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes and no
It’s true that Chandler sets great picks and finishes with aplomb, but it all starts with Paul’s uncanny ability to split the double and get in the lane off the pick and roll. No Blazer PG is capable of running the pick and roll like Paul can, no matter who is setting the picks.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on May 21, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rings and Still Playing
Chris Paul is obviously a spectacular player, and the best pure PG by a long ways. After/with him, I think you have to look at Tony Parker. Because the team is stacked with other good passers, he doesn’t always need to be the distributor. So, he does whatever is needed, whether it is penetrating and passing, scoring, or the pick-and-roll. Championship wins should count as a stat here.
If you want to look at Roy on this list, you also need to add D Wade, T-Mac, Manu and a few more.
by hoopla-pdx on May 21, 2008 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
T-Mac is a good passer,
but he’s more of a point forward than a PG. Kinda like LeBron, but not quite as nice. Plus, he hasn’t won any rings, or any playoff series for that matter. LeBron, despite playing on a far suckier team, has at least been to the Finals.
Roy and Manu are an interesting compare. Along with Baron Davis, Manu is the other WC guard who can gripe the most about being left off the WC all-star team. Roy’s cooler, of course, because he doesn’t flop and whine as much. :)
by EngineerScotty on May 21, 2008 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I have bean wanting a shopping list like this for a while, but have been too buzy working or reading BE to make my own. Thank you, its great, love the simplistic contrast of age, epg, and cap damage. Its gives a little perspective for someone like myself that hasn’t seen a list like this before. Whats funny is that point guards don’t really get paid that much, other then kidd and iverson. I wonder at the median price for league point guards.
awesometastic, (v)? first surfaced within an internet comunity centered around the Portland Trailblazers basketball team in 2008 during the last year of the pre-Oden era. Origin is commonly attributede to a prolific poster within the Blazers edge comunity using the moniker Mortimer....
by ptwnblzr on May 21, 2008 10:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One glaring omission - Beno Udrih
He’s probably top 15 and has the potential to crack top 10.
by timg56 on May 22, 2008 8:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And he's an unrestricted free agent
Of course, the Blazers are Over The Cap and can only offer him the MLE, but if he decides he wants out of Sacramento, we’d be a much more inviting place.
by EngineerScotty on May 22, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can get Channing
to explain to him that Sacramento is buffet of suck-i-tude and that Portland is weird in a good way
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on May 22, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was on my radar, but fell slightly short of the cut.
If I had to continue my list:
25. Beno Udrih, Kings
Age: 25
EPG: 12.9
Contract: free agent
As Timg56 mentioned, Udrih is an up and coming player with a lot of potential. He flourished in a starting role in Sacramento; it was primarily his fault that they weren’t higher up in the Derrick Rose sweepstakes.
26. Delonte West, Cavs
Age: 24
EPG: 9.6
Contract: one year, $2.8 M
A multi-faceted player that needs to stay healthy to be an effective starting point guard. Having James on his team probably doesn’t hurt his stock at all.
27. Rodney Stuckey, Pistons
Age: 22
EPG: 7.6
Contract: four years, $10.2 M ($2.6 M per)
A natural scorer. Stuckey is a big, strong comb guard that will have to learn to distribute. Can he fill Billups’ sneakers? Only time, and perhaps this series with Boston, will tell.
28. Rafer Alston, Rockets
Age: 31
EPG: 13.4
Contract: two years, $10.2 M ($5.1 M per)
A career journeyman. “Skip To My Lou” has turned out to be more important to the Rockets than most people realized. He’s affordable, but one can only wonder how long his streetball quicks will last now that he’s hit the 30 year old threshold.
After this point it gets fuzzy; I’d have to think about Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Jarrett Jack (yes! Jarrett Jack!), and maybe Juan Carlos Navarro.
Thanks PA, KP, Nate, BRoy, LMA, GO, 'Tell, Trout, JJ's, Buffet, Blake (not Blakey), Thrilla Hundred-dolla Billa, McBob (just 'cuz you're cool), Sergio (just 'cuz you've got flash), and Raef (ummm...just 'cuz)....and Dean Demo, Maurice, Monty (You rock Monty!), Bill Bayno (good luck with your new job), Bobby, Jay, and everyone else I'm forgetting (scouts, other front office people) who made the Return of Rip City possible, including the media (Mike B., Casey, Dave, Ben). And tominhawaii. Can't forget him.
by prezofdeath on May 22, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
And I didn’t see jersey numbers.
Two
by tominhawaii on May 22, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AHHHH
I KNEW this post was missing something!
Thanks PA, KP, Nate, BRoy, LMA, GO, 'Tell, Trout, JJ's, Buffet, Blake (not Blakey), Thrilla Hundred-dolla Billa, McBob (just 'cuz you're cool), Sergio (just 'cuz you've got flash), and Raef (ummm...just 'cuz)....and Dean Demo, Maurice, Monty (You rock Monty!), Bill Bayno (good luck with your new job), Bobby, Jay, and everyone else I'm forgetting (scouts, other front office people) who made the Return of Rip City possible, including the media (Mike B., Casey, Dave, Ben). And tominhawaii. Can't forget him.
by prezofdeath on May 22, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is all good
It was still great analysis.
Two
by tominhawaii on May 22, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Agent 0 and his Halo skills
He cheats.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2007/10/is_gilbert_cheating_at_halo.html
Still one of my favorite NBA personalities, though. In fact, makes him even more so.
by grimc on May 23, 2008 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha he has since reached level fifty with the help of Final Boss
But yeah, I remember when Gilbert-Gate happened. If only he would have added me to his team.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 23, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
hEY Pres, My account is freewonmonth, or one, cant remember, I havent played in over 6 months, but I was a 41 or 42 in dbles, team, and some thing else, i am a 40+ in 3 different things, or 4. anyway, when I looked at you profile, i felt like a dirty old man in a sea of naughty nurces, seriouly, theres a little crackhead i keep chained up, and he got out. He wants to play Halo.
What did Oden say to the stork?. "Admit that you have got lost". amlmart
by ptwnblzr on May 24, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
great list
the only outlier i see is barbosa, who i would put in the 12-14 range but i think that can be chalked up to playing time.
"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.
by Ben. on May 24, 2008 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and i agree about beno
being overlooked. he is top 20.
"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.
by Ben. on May 24, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beno?
Has he really improved that much since his days in San Antonio? Or is he just a one year wonder?
by tingeyga on May 24, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he really improved much
It looks like he’s playing at about the same level as he was with the Spurs, he’s just getting a lot more playing time because he isn’t playing behind Tony Parker anymore.
by trk on May 24, 2008 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have to admit,
I didn’t watch hardly any Kings games. Ever since they lost Webber, Stoyo, Vlade, and Turkoglu, I haven’t really watched any of their games. Maybe a check of the Youtube archives is in order.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 24, 2008 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think you got it right.
He played the way I felt Dan Dickau played on that horrific New Orleans team a couple years ago (they immediately drafted Paul). Good numbers, questionable improvement.
by The Graduate on May 25, 2008 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess a lot depends on his salary
And how much he demands in free agent market.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 25, 2008 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes i think he did take a step forward
he made bibby expendable.
12/4/3 with an almost 2:1 assist to turnover ratio on a pretty terrible team.
he has better numbers in every category compared to nate robinson and he played in a much stronger conference.
Check out “BMac’s Blog” for some praise:
http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com/2007/12/reggie-theus-era-begins-for-me.html
“Because, Beno Udrih is a baller. Sure, he missed two big free throws. But, when the Kings needed a bucket, they ran a pick and pop to get Udrih a shot from the elbow. How many teams run plays for guys they picked up off the waiver wire? I always wanted the Kings to trade for Udrih. I don’t know how a couple dozen teams managed to let him get cut and then failed to sign him. He’s the back-up PG the Suns covet; the set-up man the Nuggets lack; the Cavs missing link; the type of guy who would make Durant better in Seattle. I never understood why Pop burried him in San Antonio, after almost favoring Udrih to parker during Udrih’s rookie season. However, he is a starting PG in the NBA. “
"Honor Terry Porter." Email me with your TP stories and memories.
by Ben. on May 26, 2008 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
If I did it again, or made a 2.0 version, I think I’d have to take all y’alls advice and move him up a slot or two. I’d probably nestle him somewhere between Mike Conley 21 and Jordan Farmar 22.
Maybe between 22 and 23…who knows. We’ll have to see when next year rolls around….
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 26, 2008 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I don’t know how that happened. Some weird formatting glitch. I used “at” signs and it totally messed things up.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 26, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used the @ signs
and voila! white out. really trippy. And trust me—I didn’t sniff it. Honest.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 26, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe I am debating the merits of Beno Udrih as a top 25 PG
Is the level of point guard play in the NBA really in such a state that 12/4/3 for a pretty terrible team make you a top 20-25 point guard?
Compare Beno’s stats with Jarett Jack’s and I think that you will find that they really isn’t that much (at least on a numbers basis) that separates him from Jarett Jack. Also consider that as noted above that his per minute numbers are basically the same as they were in San Antonino so any improvement that he may have made in his game isn’t showing up in the boxscore.
Also the Kings almost shipped Bibby out to Cleveland an entire year before he ended up going to the ATL (long before Beno arrived on the scene). I think that what made Bibby far more expendable than anything else was the continued development of Kevin Martin.
by tingeyga on May 27, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are only 30 teams
Not every one is going to have a great point guard. Top 25 is basically all the starters in the league except a few, with a few backups unlucky enough to be sitting behind someone better thrown in.
by jamon51 on May 27, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are quite a few guys I'd take over Baron Davis
Even more so when you consider his salary. But I don’t know what the rules are.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 27, 2008 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Steve Blake
would be closer to 23rd or so considering his newly improved long range shooting and assist to turnover ratio and decent defense. Why he is not considered an option for the starting PG for the Blazers in the future is beyond me. But this belongs in a different post I guess…
by jamon51 on May 27, 2008 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I should have made it more clear that this post excludes Jack and Blake from consideration
With that said, Blake would probably be 23ish, and Jack about 30ish, in my opinion.
Current team + Greg + Rudy = Blazers losing narrowly to the Spurs in the 2008-2009 Western Conference Finals. Book it.
by prezofdeath on May 27, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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