This is a pretty simple equation:  As soon as another team feels you will not stand up to them or foul hard when it's warranted then it's going to be open season on your guy.  We haven't experienced too much of that because frankly we haven't mattered at all to anyone for the last few years.  But if we're in the heat of a playoff race (or--God forbid--in the playoffs themselves) and another team thinks they can gain an advantage by putting Roy on the floor they're going to do it.  Brandon is going to get pulverized unless we, as a team, protect him.  As I pointed out in the example this is true in baseball.  It's true in hockey too.

There was a reason Clyde Drexler didn't get walloped every time he glided through the air.  Part of it was him being as strong as an ox (which is something our guys need to work on).  But another big part of it was Jerome Kersey and Buck Williams.  You didn't have to ask.  If you cheap-shotted Clyde or even got too rough with him they were going to have you for lunch...and they meant business.  They both established that aura early in their careers and neither had to do much afterwards except exist.  That actually kept the horseplay to a minimum, which is exactly why I'm suggesting that if another team whacks you in the nose you better be ready to whack them back.  It ends this kind of stuff.

It's not confined to that hard foul on Roy either.  Odom was shoving Lamarcus around all night last night, making a big deal of being physical.  Unless and until our guys learn to deal with that and maybe dish it back "extra physical" is all you're going to see out there.

--Dave

I agree completely with Dave; he didn't advocate starting a fight.  What he was saying was that the Blazers shouldn't back down out of fear of the LAKERS turning it into a fight.  If they choose that path, you have to say, "So be it."  

"You're going to come at our guy?  We're going to kill yours."

I know this obviously wasn't meant literally, but I still don't agree with writing it.

I agree a hard foul would have been warranted, but that's all.  Odom's foul really wasn't all that bad.

As I told our guys, that was a hard foul, it's part of the NBA.  One of the things I told our guys before the game, I think at times we have too much respect for opponents.  We kind of look at these guys and want them to like us.  Players don't care about that...  The bottom line is you're trying to win games. I thought that play showed that Brandon Roy is just Brandon Roy to the Lakers.  They gave up the foul so they completed that with a hard foul and that's how we have to learn to play.  You don't want to hurt anybody, but you come in there and you don't allow them to get the shot off.  I like what I saw as far as guys coming to Brandon's [defense].  I like that, I thought that was good.  One of the things we wanted to do was start something tonight and I thought they tried."

Nobody wants to see a serious fight but I think many people (Nate included) at least want to see some posturing and a fighting spirit.  Getting bullied can cause serious problems to a team's psyche and culture.

I'd rather not stoop to that level.

  I also know if I was a L*ker fan, I'd just think it was good agressive play by Odom.

  In evaluating the play and the reaction I think you must realize there is a history and a speculative future. The history is a strong rivalry between LA and Portland. The History includes Odom charging into a Blazer huddle last season.

  I think there is a speculative future as well. The Lakers know The Blazers in a few years might very well be the greatest obstacle to The L*kers success.

  Given the history, and the future that exists for these two franchises, The Blazers cannot afford to let LA even think they have a toughness edge.

  If I step back from watching Brandon land awkwardly I guess I have no problem with Odoms hard foul. However, I also have no problem with Outlaw, Aldridge and The rest of The Blazers letting him know they did not appreciate it.

  Hard fouls are a reality. Brandon is going to get knocked to his rear a lot in his career, he should expect it. I'm not advocating "hurting" anyone, but conversely if Kobe made a similar drive against Pryz or Aldridge, or Oden in the future, I would hope that Kobe would expect to be knocked on his butt as well.

  I actually thought the play that Brandon sustained the groin injury was far more dirty. That was a concious decision to allow a fellow player to remain in a position that did create a significant injury.--Last Night, Odom was being a jerk from a Blazer P.O.V. but I think it was reactionary agression and not contemplated or concious desire to injure.

  It's a tough line to walk. I do know however that The Blazers cannot afford to become even slightly intimidated by The L*kers. Not for this season, or for the future.

   IMO The Blazer/L*ker rivalry doesn't get the attention or press it deserves, it's one of the best, most heated rivalries in all of sports.

On the importance of standing up for your star player:  There's a player Roy resembles.  This player drove to the rim, taking heavy shots every time.  He even had a commercial where the message was something like, get knocked down 7 times, get up 8.  The strategy to stop this player was also foul hard, nothing easy.  That player is Dwayne Wade.  You people know what he's doing now?  Shut down for the season.  Too many injuries from being knowcked down too hard.  I don't remember him having anyone that let the other team know it wasn't ok to keep hitting Wade hard.  So that person is important.

I don't advocate fighting either, but one of my favorite moments from last night's game (I was there) was seeing Trout get in Odom's face.  And I also agree that a hard foul on Kobe wouldn't have been out of line.

1.  Dish it right back at them and send an important message: This team doesnt take that kind of #$^@.

2.  Cower like an abused puppy and hope they dont do it again.

Rudy > MJ

The whole idea of laying the hammer on someone to send a message is a really sad commentary on our society. What it says is, "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." What about the joy of sports, of watching athletes perform at their best? What about sportsmanship -- you know, that cute little anachronistic behavior we teach our kids? Why does that suddenly fly out the window just because the other team is beating you, or because you are frustrated?

I haven't read anything about Roy's injury, and I sure hope it isn't serious, but what if a hard fall like that broke his neck? How would Odom and Phil feel about that?

Basketball is officially a non-contact sport. The rules say you cannot do what Odom did. He wasn't going after the ball, he was going after Roy. I think the league should suspend anyone for three games who gets a flagrant 1, and seven games for a flagrant 2. There's lots of boxing, wrestling, hockey, etc. for anyone looking for rough stuff.  

Yes, I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a realist. Until the league gets serious about this nonsense, Dave is right. One pitch at your best player's head means your pitcher throws one at their best player's head. When one team starts trouble, retaliation in kind is the only response that will minimize further violence.

Unfortunately we don't have players capable or willing to knock opponents down.  I think that was Nate's point.