Youth or Experience?

by VinnyB on Apr 4, 2008 5:10 AM PDT Comment 23 comments

How good is Outlaw really going to be? and Martell Webster, how good will he be? We all know that Jack is virtually gone but Nate likes him so who really knows?
Personally I don't see them as becoming anything really special. Outlaw just needs to become more consistent and he'll be as good as he can i.e 14pts 2assists 4rbs a game. Sure he might get good enough to put up 18pts 4assists 6rbs but I highly doubt it. Webster has the potential to be an All-Star but will he? Right now he's only a role player on team with plenty of them.
Think about this, next year we have :

--a #1 pick i.e ODEN
--a potential #5 pick i.e RUDY
--and the 13th pick of the upcoming draft.
We already have :
--an All-Star shooting guard in ROY
--a candidate for most improved player in ALDRIDGE
--and a legitimate backup center in PRYZBILLA.

Isn't that enough to build a Championship team right there? Can we really afford to keep bringing in youth and potential and then wait years till they are ready to produce?
I say we gut the entire team and only keep Oden, Rudy, Roy, LMA and Pryzbilla. I guess we might have to keep Sergio too. The rest can be trade bait. Remember this could be the last summer to trade Webster, Jack, Frye and McRob. Those guys plus Outlaw and Blake could get us some much needed experience to the team.
What we would be then looking for are:

-- a starting Point Guard
like Calderon, Collison, Udrih, Andre Miller, Ford
-- a backup Point Guard
like A.Brooks, Watson, Anthony Johnson, Augustin, Lawson
-- a defensive Small Forward(role player)
like J.Posey, Salmons, Barnes, Ross, Simmons, Batum,
-- a backup 3pt shooter
like Nachbar, Korver, J.Jones, Szcerbiak, Budinger
-- and backup Power Forward
like Bass, Gomes, Moore, Haslem, Diogu, D.Marshall

Those were just examples of guys that we could go after to fill the lesser posistions in the team. We probably couldn't get one of each but IF KP where to fill 3/4 of the posistions then we would have a great summer. We have tradeable pieces in players and draft picks to fill all four but that would require Kevin to get really creative. For example we could trade 2 out of the 4 second round picks for Brooks and the other 2 for Diogu and that's two posistions filled. Brooks is very quick and can be the defensive PG that we NEED! Diogu has not had a good year but is strong and can play, he's not ideal but who else could we get for so little? How about trading Outlaw, Jack and the 13th pick for Calderon? We might not need to offer the 13th pick cause well Toronto might REALLY like fish, I mean Trout? All this AND we get to keep Webster.

New team with experience:
PG- Calderon/Brooks/Sergio
SG- Roy/Rudy
SF- Barnes/Webster
PF- Aldridge/Diogu(?)
C - Oden/Pryzbilla/Raef

Then if we have the 13th pick we could take best available player. I may be living in dream land but losing 4 in a row makes me this way.

Oh, if no one likes Diogu then we could trade up to get Randolph or Griffin. O.k now I'm done!

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I forgot about Blake

I guess we could include him in the trade for Brooks or Barnes.

Strength over time is power!

by VinnyB on Apr 4, 2008 5:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Questions will be answered

Gut the whole team except for Oden, Rudy, Roy, LMA and Pryzbilla?

Well first of all, Rudy has yet to ink a contract with The Blazers and/or bounce a ball against the hardwood as a Blazer. So hold off on annoiting him with untouchable status.

Things get tricky this off-season, many questions need to be addressed.

Maybe the most immediate and the most pressing will be whether The Blazers use their draft pick to bring in another rookie or whether we draft/package/trade for a veteran talent.

I hate the analogy, but it's KP's. As far as the cake goes? We are talking Icing. Important, crucial questions about icing but icing.

I have no idea how commited to drafting a player or using the draft pick in another manner The Blazers may or maynot be. Infact at this point The Blazers themselves might not know. It probably all depends on what pick we end up having and what offers or deals might or might not materialize as we approach the draft and or even after the draft.

As far as Outlaw, Martell? Outlaw has demonstrated to me that he should be kept. Martell IMO needs to develop more, but we should be patient, just like Outlaw the past few years, Martell is young.

I think we need to look long and hard at what direction we feel we need or want to go with our PG position.

I'd expect movement this off-season. Also I would expect that not all questions will be answered. As much as fans want instant resoulution to problems they see, that rarely happens.

Just be patient. I think you only "gut" something that is dead. The Blazer franchise is very much alive. Changes and decisions need to be made, but a radical scorched earth policy is not at all needed.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Apr 4, 2008 6:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

100% Agree with Krang... Great Post!

Be patient and see how our situation materializes once we find out where our pick is and evaluate what other teams are willing to part-with and what they want in return.

One thing is for sure, this will be another VERY EXCITING off-season for Blazer fans. I mean, KP has not steared us wrong yet. Let's allow the Blazer-Brass to impress us again.

And regarding the first post: You can't just trade a player straight across for two draft picks like your scenario for Brooks or Diogu (both players I like). But, Where would the roster spots come from? How can that work with CBA? And, Don't you think we have the base of a championship-caliber team right now?

B.Roy, LMA, Greg Oden, Martell, Outlaw, Pryzbill, & Rudy? Yeah, we need another couple of players (PG for sure) who are down-right winners, but that looks like a solid core to me.

by Scotty the Mastermind on Apr 4, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shoots

I already had to wait out this year, what's another year? Lets let the cake bake into one of those real big cakes, that are all cool looking, and ever so tasty, on the Food Network.

I'm tominhawaii and I approved this message.

by tominhawaii on Apr 4, 2008 7:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I find it funny

That you say gut the team and bring in experienced players, then name College players and foreign players as possible replacements.

by usmcr3049 on Apr 4, 2008 7:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking the same thing.

Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear.

by JTDuck22 on Apr 4, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with you on most of those points

I think the sky is the limit for Outlaw and Webster. They are both great athletes but they need to hit the weight room and improve their ball handling.

I am a big Oregon fan and I really like Aaron Brooks, but he is too undersized to be a good backcourt defender in the NBA. We already have a great backup point guard with Blake, we just need a starter.

I agree about needing a defensive stopper at the 3, but Barnes deffinately doesn't fit in with this team. For a shooter, the Blazers already have James Jones, and Webster has become more consistent ( but he has a ways to go still).

As far as a backup power foward, none of the guys you mentioned would be a upgrade over Channing (except for Haslem) and most would be a downgrade. With Joel being the backup center we don't necessarily need the PF to be an enforcer, just a guy that can hit shots and rebound (maybe Hansbrough, or stick with Frye)

I think instead of gutting the team, we just need to develop the guys that are here. KP might package the pick and a couple guys to go after a PG, but I don't see any other major moves unless the current team doesn't perform.

Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear.

by JTDuck22 on Apr 4, 2008 9:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Martell...

I still don't know how well Martell will develop, I think he has a good chance of realizing most of his potential and becoming a great starter, borderline star. But, maybe not. Nevertheless, I think we absolutely keep him, unless we get an offer that is really good.

Here's the clincher for me: while it is still a question of whether or not he reaches his potential, I think it's almost guaranteed that he will at least improve next year... and so, sell high right? It seems like the question is framed such that we either trade a player now, or risk staying with him to see if he develops. I am not sure it's such a risk--in fact, I see it as possibly the smartest thing to do, as long as he continues to improve. After all, if we decide after next year to trade him, and he has improved in that time, we would get higher value for him. So, apart from the obvious caveat that he is not untouchable at all... the question is, do you think he will continue to improve, even only a little bit? Because if so, even if he's not in our long term plans and doesn't reach his full potential, the best option is to keep him for next year.

Barring a trade that gives us a finalizing piece, I think he stays.

by TimG on Apr 4, 2008 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

As far as role players go....

I tend to agree with the sentiment of this post.
I dont know about all these players who your pulling out but the idea of getting some pieces with some grit and experience around our core guys is vital.
I love Martell and Travis and I think one of them could stay and be a role player. I feel like travis is probably the one who gets traded. He has such a unique skill set and he keeps on improving......alas, I think his potential will be able to net us a defensive/intangibles kind of player in return......plus they just lost his personal development coach (Bill Bayno)
This year we've really needed his scoring ability, If we can get Rudy into a rhythm and land a quality three who can do everything (Lamar Odom, Tayshaun Prince type) then we will have enough offensive options to fill the void or Travis and Jack.
I say we go with youth AND experience.

by DropstepJ on Apr 4, 2008 10:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You mentioned a 'defensive small forward' . . .

. . . after dismissing Trout's potential based on his ceiling in terms of points, assists, and rebounds.
While you got those three stats pretty much right (I could see his scoring go up some more, if he finds consistency),
I've been noticing a lot of improvement over the season, including lately, in Trout's steals and blocks.

I think that "defensive small forward" could BE Trout, with energy and scoring as well.

(Note: I do mean "could be", NOT "is" or "definitely will be".)

Did you really put stuff on top of the eggs? Like, for real? He put . . . HE PUT THE LIGHT BULBS ON THE BOTTOM!

by QualityPie on Apr 4, 2008 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Travis could be the stopper

I agree.

Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear.

by JTDuck22 on Apr 4, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If stats only told the story...

After watching most of the Blazer games this year I have come to the conclusion that as hard as they try , neither Martell or Travis will be the kind of smart defenders that Nate and KP want.
Trout certainly tries hard and can get us some weak side blocks.......but his man defense and general feeling for funneling and court awareness just dont seem to be getting much better.
I could say the same for Martell.
now, not every player has to have these abilities (probably 60% of the league doesnt, obviously Zach never grew into them) but in looking at the pieces to surround our core building blocks, I feel like we may have the chance to land a player who may fit that role better than Trout.

by DropstepJ on Apr 4, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

When you say, "his man defense and general feeling for funneling and court awareness just dont seem to be getting much better."

I think they HAVE gotten better--from atrocious to mediocre.
He's got a long way to go, but only about as far as he's already come, at least on those particular aspects.

And Martell doesn't have Travis' length, but he's younger, smarter, and has a more solid body;
from the youth (and therefore having more untapped potential than Trout),
I can see him gaining better-than-Trout court awareness and team-defense smarts.

Martell can become more of an on-man defender, denying position,
as opposed to Trout's steals-and-blocks, "event defender" potential.

And again, in both cases, I'm talking potential and progress-shown, NOT actually "being there" yet at all.

Did you really put stuff on top of the eggs? Like, for real? He put . . . HE PUT THE LIGHT BULBS ON THE BOTTOM!

by QualityPie on Apr 4, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From atrocious to mediocre

Yes, I suppose your right.
It's just hard because Nate was exceptional.
I dont think we have one player on the team who was as good as Nate was on the defensive end. I feel that Martell does have more room to grow into it.
Trout just may have more trade potential now because of what he has proven he can do.
Maybe to land someone Nate can rely on as a stopper.
You know, a shane battier type.

by DropstepJ on Apr 4, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, that IS a big reason why . . .

. . . when everyone is healthy, Webster starts and Trout comes off the bench.

Did you really put stuff on top of the eggs? Like, for real? He put . . . HE PUT THE LIGHT BULBS ON THE BOTTOM!

by QualityPie on Apr 4, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Batum

is a defensive stopper I'll eat my hat.

by OregonDuckworth on Apr 4, 2008 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Blake for brooks...

tears are rolling down my face as I laugh here.

Team OK just has to say that we'll take the lead with no delay. We have the players to keep the pace and in the end we'll win the race.

by ratbastird on Apr 4, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If we keep

Martell and Outlaw along with Roy, Oden, LMA, Rudy, Pryzbilla, and Sergio then where are we going to find defensive players. Oden yes but we won't have any perimeter defenders. Its all about BALANCE! With all the players I just mentioned, there won't be enough shots for all of them. Don't get me wrong, I want Martell and Travis to do well but with Roy, LMA, and Oden we got enough STAR players. Rudy I believe will be a good SEMI-STAR either off the bench or starting. What we need are role players, Trout and Web might be too good for that role on this team. And to get a good Point Guard we have to give up someone good. No one thinks that Blake is the one to leads this team in the distant future, he's just the best we got. Why can't the future be next season?

Strength over time is power!

by VinnyB on Apr 4, 2008 11:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This makes some sense.

You ask why the future can't be next season? It can. Next year the Blazers will probably have a much similar roster and KP will see how well it works. If it works, he won't make too many changes to it. If it doesn't, the bench players and Martell will have had one more year to improve their trade stock and we could possibly get better players through trades than we could before.

Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear.

by JTDuck22 on Apr 5, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There will be trades

But what coach wants is that there would be one or two players in the 2 unit that could create their own shot, and score. I dont see anybody from Outlaw that is atleast somewhat consistent. Jack will be traded so it leaves Rudy and Trout to drive and score or drive and pass to some one like Jones. Here is what I think. If blazers trade this summer for Calderon or Harris, then Chris Paul might not want to come here. If Miles retires Blazers will be 20 mill under the cap in summer 2009. That is very good to run at Chris Paul, or Deron Williams. I think we have a good chance to get them, if we can win 50 games next season, and if Utah and Hornets cant get to the finals, this season and next.

by RipCity on Apr 5, 2008 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I mean no disrespect but come on. Trade away to get younger players makes no sense. I do think we need a veteran but we do not need to gut the team and start all over.

by wiseblazer on Apr 5, 2008 2:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I 'm only taking about

gutting the role players and bringing in experienced role players to play with our STAR YOUTHS like Roy, LMA, Oden, Rudy and Sergio. I just feel that guys like Outlaw, Jack, Martell, Frye and Blake keep making silly mistakes night in and night out. I only see very small improvements in defense and on the court IQ. We NEED smart players to win!

Strength over time is power!

by VinnyB on Apr 6, 2008 3:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lol

Sergio doesn't make silly mistakes? We haven't seen Rudy play, so I don't think the team should be making trades thinking they have a sure thing in him.

Tyler Hansbrough wears Kansas underwear.

by JTDuck22 on Apr 6, 2008 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs