Dead Franchise: Stay or Go
I was listening to Game Night with Jason Smith last night on espn radio. He was discussing wich teams in the NBA were dead franchises. His criteria was:
~good free agents don't sign there
~they can't resign their own up and comers
~they can't be a championship caliber team for an extended period of time (3-4 years).
The western conference teams he considered dead were Seattle/OK city, Minnesota, Golden State, the Clippers, and the Blazers. He didn't elaborate on why each team was dead but he encouraged people to call in and ask if their team (regardless of sport) was dead or alive. The first caller was a guy from Portland saying he disagreed, mentioned we have some good players, and KP is great. Jason Smith answered saying we got lucky with Greg Oden and that once his contract is up he probably won't stay, and no one will sign with us if Greg isn't here.
Jason didn't mention Roy or LMA, but it made me think. Will Oden, Roy, and LMA stay when they become free agents? The Blazers will hopefully be a near elite team when that time comes and the players will relize that this is the place they have the best shot at winning.
Who of the big three is most likely to leave? Do you think all three will stay?
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I have a hard time getting worked up
about some ESPN talking head obviously trying to fill air time by stirring up fans. (Of course, I’m sitting here pissed off and posting about this…) None of our Big Three are gonna have any reason to leave. We’ll pay them like kings, they’re the three cornerstones of our apparently triangular future championship-winning team, they’re already beloved in Portland, and they’ll be competing for titles for LITERALLY the next decade.
I don’t see a Joe-Johnson-to-Atlanta or Marion-to-Miami situation happening cuz none of the three seem to have that kind of ego. Jason Smith needs to spend more time focusing on Game Six against the Pistons and less time on whether or not Portland’s a dead franchise, thank you very much.
by BlazersOrBust on Apr 30, 2008 8:49 AM PDT 0 recs
Nothing?
Not even a chuckle at my unequivocally hilarious “Jason Smith backup PF for the 76ers/Jason Smith ESPN talking head” play on words? Why do I even waste such brilliance at BE. ::sigh:: A prophet is never respected in his homeland. I suppose the same can be said for comedic genius.
by BlazersOrBust on
Apr 30, 2008 5:37 PM PDT
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Wow ....there are 2 Jason Smiths??
I mean really?? How is that possible?
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss" Robert A. Heinlein
by 92wastheyear on
Apr 30, 2008 6:47 PM PDT
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It was mostly Aramaic for me.
Diputado A: Su Señoría da una en clavo y cien en herradura.
Diputado B: porque su Señoría no se está quieto.
by amlmart1 on
May 1, 2008 11:09 AM PDT
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forgot
the kings are dead too.
If all I'm remembered for is being a good basketball player, then I've done a bad job with the rest of my life. - Isiah Thomas
by JTDuck22 on Apr 30, 2008 9:02 AM PDT 0 recs
That's one reason I stopped listening
It was about 5:09pm Feb. 29th (on my way to watch the Blazers beat the Lakers) that I decided to stop listening to The Fan after more than a dozen years of being a faithful listener. I was already losing interest with much of their programming being heavily weighted on an East coast perspective and when they announced their new line up I simply decided I was too bored with anything they had to offer to waste any more time on them.
I actually remember the moment. The weasels were spinning their reasons for changing the lineup and one of them was touting Dan Patrick and he said, “What Dan Patrick brings is…” at which point I switched stations while simultaneously saying, “boredeom”.
It was an ignorant statement on Jason Smith’s part. Portland has perennially been touted by players as a coveted place to play (well, not counting the last few abysmal years). In fact, a few days ago I was thinking of creating a Fanpost essay on how Portland will be the hot spot in the US to live during the next decade with the Blazers being just one reason behind it. I haven’t brushed aside the time yet (and hopefully nobody will beat me to the punch).
All three players will stay as long as the Blazers want them.
by LaughingJon on Apr 30, 2008 9:07 AM PDT 0 recs
If Portland were like any other team, they might have a point.
But this is one of the major reasons for KP’s favorite word: Culture. Sure, the city can identify with the player better, and that helps in the rough times, but when winning, it didn’t matter who was here, people came. But, in that culture, if someone wanted to be the man somewhere else, Portland had little recourse.
But the culture that KP is fostering now is that of family. James Jones and Channing Frye come in, and don’t want to leave. Not because they have no where else to go, but because they are part of the family that Portland has built here. Roy and Aldridge are a big part of that. Both put their team first, and the players that KP brings in buy into the “team as family” philosophy. You don’t just leave your family. And you don’t just leave Portland.
It’s kind of like Cheers. It wasn’t the biggest, flashiest or best bar in town, but everyone knew who you were, and loved you anyways. Oden will not leave. Roy will not leave. Aldridge will not leave. Not if they are the people KP thinks they are. Not if they’re the people we think they are.
Jason Smith doesn’t get culture. It’s a good thing our guys do.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick McManus
by T Darkstar on Apr 30, 2008 9:10 AM PDT 0 recs
Well ...
None of these guys are even going to be Unrestricted Free Agents for many more years, so it’s kind of a silly question. They all have a rapport with the coach and GM, and by the time they’ll be able to seek other offers, we’ll be a very, very good team. They all strike me as winners, and that would be hard to walk away from, especially since we’ll be able to pay them more than anyone else anyway.
Roy is from the Northwest, and has never struck me as a bright lights, big city guy, so I don’t think he’ll leave.
Oden said himself on his blog that this was his team, that he wasn’t leaving. And I believe he feels he owes the team and the city a little something extra because of his missed time.
I don’t really know about LMA, but he has never struck me as a money chaser either. And given the chance to play next to Oden for his whole career—who could pass that up? Randolph would probably leave for more touches, but I don’t think LMA is Zach Randolph.
In sum, I think this guy is pretty wrong. KP has been very careful to acquire players who fit the culture and the city so as to avoid this very thing.
by bfan on Apr 30, 2008 9:17 AM PDT 0 recs
Not to mention ...
when’s the last time we lost a free agent we didn’t WANT to keep? We resigned Randolph. Miles. Outlaw. We traded Rasheed. Bonzi. Ratliff. Let Ime walk.
I would wager there hasn’t been one player in the last 10 years who didn’t stay when we wanted him to stay. And we’ve never been a big player in free agency because we haven’t had the cap space, so I don’t think you can point to anyone and say they chose someone else over us either …
The more I think about it the more wrong this guy is …
by bfan on
Apr 30, 2008 9:21 AM PDT
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Do you think...
LMA might want to play in Texas?
If all I'm remembered for is being a good basketball player, then I've done a bad job with the rest of my life. - Isiah Thomas
by JTDuck22 on
Apr 30, 2008 9:31 AM PDT
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He does seem like a hometown boy ...
But I just think the opportunity to play with a potential all-star center (who won’t demand shots to be effective) and a perennial all-star guard is too good to pass up for most anyone in the league.
Besides, I assume the Blazers will give him close to a max extension, meaning they can sign him for 6 years. Add the final year of his rookie deal, and that means he’s not available for unrestricted free agency for 7 years, when he’ll be 30 years old.
Now, he could do a Lebron-type deal, and extend for three years with some options, so I guess it’s possible. And I know things change. Look at the Rasheed situation. This city LOVED him, but eventually the relationship soured and he had to go. But I just don’t see it happening. We have a better management team now that operates with integrity and fairness, and LMA has umpteen fewer levels of crazy than Rasheed. So I just don’t see it happening unless something seriously goes wrong in the next few years. But that’s a coin-flip in my opinion—which is not nearly enough for someone to label us a dead franchise …
by bfan on
Apr 30, 2008 9:41 AM PDT
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Jason Smith is not very bright
Greg Oden isn’t going to leave unless his ego becomes like Shaq’s. The Blazers organization from the top down is one of the best in the league since the recent purge. Espn stooges should be listened to for strictly entertainment and not knowledge.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on Apr 30, 2008 9:19 AM PDT 0 recs
Weak arguement
Who was the last free agent who left a team that was willing to pay what another team would? Rashard Lewis left for Orlando, but only because Seattle wouldn’t match. Can anyone think of a player who took less money (as either Roy, Oden or Aldridge would have to do) to join another team as a free agent because it was a desirable destination?
by Lance Uppercut on Apr 30, 2008 9:52 AM PDT 0 recs
Karl Malone and Gary Payton
Both split the mid-level exception to play for the Lakers a few years back to chase a championship. And there have been cases where veteran bench players have taken less than they could have gotten else where to do the same. However neither of these cases involved front line players nearing their peak or at their peak which Roy, LMA and Oden will be when they have the chance to free agents.
by tingeyga on
Apr 30, 2008 11:52 AM PDT
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Not exactly an applicable comparison.
Both guys were at the end of their careers and had already gotten max contracts. They signed for the chance to be on a title winning team.
As Lance points out, the Blazers will be in the position of being able to offer the most money. When it comes down to making a decision, the dollars are the determining factor in most instances. Should Portland prove to be the championship contending team year in and year out, as we all think or hope so, then we can eliminate the draw of going to another team to win a title.
Also on our side is the “liveability” factor of Portland. As someone who has lived in a number of places around the country and who splits their time between Portland & Seattle, I will argue strongly that this helps give the Blazers a significant edge. It has already proved to be the key factor in Joel resigning and Blake coming back. As bfan mentions, Brandon appears to be more interested in raising family than frequenting the hottest nightclubs. Add in that his family is just a couple hours away and there isn’t a lot of incentive for him to look for greener pastures elsewhere. Todate neither Oden or Aldridge show any indication to be hugely ego driven. As such there really aren’t any scenarios having them leave that would appear to apply.
Decision tree:
Best financial deal – Portland
Best chance at a title – Portland (probably)
Best team chemistry – Portland
Best place to raise a family – Portland
Most appreciative fans – Portland
As long as everything proceeds as expected and Portland WANTS TO KEEP THEM, these guys are most likely to remain Blazers.
by timg56 on
Apr 30, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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To be fair ...
The livability factor only counts when you’re talking about players who care about that. For Brandon, Joel, James Jones, and hopefully Oden and LMA, that seems to matter. Thankfully.
If you’re talking about Kobe or Lebron, I don’t think it factors into the decision. They’re either looking for money, fame, or titles. I’m guessing MOST NBA players fall into this category. They are young and have money to spend. If that’s the case, Portland is probably not the best place for them. Certainly not better than LA, SanFran, New York, Boston, Miami, D.C., etc.
So, like you say, this is a good thing when it comes to resigning the guys we have, but I doubt it helps significantly when we go to sign a free agent (which is partially what this guy was talking about in his ridiculous radio assertion …).
I’m so glad the guys we found that care about this type of thing are ALSO really good basketball players ….
by bfan on
Apr 30, 2008 1:42 PM PDT
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ESPN is spread too thin
like a pat of cheap, nasty margarine spread over a loaf of bread. They rely on information and perceptions of teams and players formed years ago. They’re still trying to figure out that Travis is not Bo. They’re the Big Dog in sports coverage but they’ve never been house-trained. They need a diaper and a muzzle.
by MiledAnimal on Apr 30, 2008 10:02 AM PDT 0 recs
I hate this type of crap
I mean, who is this guy? Seems obvious that he’s oblivious to the situation. We happen to have one of the wealthiest owners in sports. Everybody knows that the NBA is a business and that money talks… that alone is a huge draw. Throw in that we likely have the best foundation for consistent success and how could players NOT want to come here. If he based it solely on the last five years I might see what he’s saying, but otherwise he’s just another guy blabbing.
As far as our guys leaving, they probably don’t leave unless KP decides that’s the best way to go. We’ve got them locked up for quite some time otherwise.
Blake brings it up on the right, swings it to Webster on the elbow, he moves around the key and passes to the low left block for Aldridge, Aldridge jukes baseline, turns back in and finds Roy cutting down the seam, ROY THROWS IT UP AT THE RIM FOR ODEN WHO THROWS IT DOWN FOR THE TWO HANDED MONSTER JAM!!! BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!!! -Wheeler '08-'09
i can't wait
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 30, 2008 10:06 AM PDT 0 recs
Truth is
The truth is, at some level you have no control over the personal decision of a person. So I look at The Blazers like this, Blazer management, KP, Paul Allen want to build a championship caliber franchise. I have no doubt they will do everything within their control to facilitate that end. Allen has proven he will sacrifice for the good of his franchises.
When the time comes I think the best offers will be made to keep any Blazer asset here. If the person makes a personal decision against staying for whatever reason then there won’t be much anyone can do. But The Blazers should be an appealing franchise to be part of, and I think nobody will make a choice based on the fact that The Blazers aren’t trying or offering the best they can.
Dead franchise? Dead franchises are franchises that are operated with no real commitment to a goal, Portland IS NOT among those type of franchises.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Apr 30, 2008 10:18 AM PDT 0 recs
Dead Franchises
Clippers. That’s it with a maybe dead being the Bucks, but at least they try.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on
Apr 30, 2008 11:46 AM PDT
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and maybe
Memphis.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on
Apr 30, 2008 11:46 AM PDT
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BWAHAHA!
That’s just funny. I mean, what idiotic statement is coming next?
The Spurs are a bad team, who will never win a championship?
Kobe has never had a clutch performance in his career?
Kevin Garnett plays lousy defense?
I mean, classing Portland as a place that “cannot resign their up and comers” (Travis, Zach, Joel) or “Players don’t want to come” (James Jones, Blake) or “Won’t be in a position to win a championship for 3-4 years” (Oden, LMA, Roy, Rudy isn’t a recipe for this? Then what is?)
This is either intentional baiting, or the guy just flat out doesn’t know basketball.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by Majikj0n on Apr 30, 2008 11:02 AM PDT 0 recs
How about both?
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy=Dynasty. Believe
by OdenRoyLMA on
Apr 30, 2008 11:25 AM PDT
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This guy's an idiot
Apparently if you didn’t make the playoffs in a historically deep conference, you’re a dead team. Does this guy have some inside info on Memphis, or did he mention them too? I feel like if you’re going to make statements like this you need some evidence other than baseless assumptions about the intentions of players you’ve never talked to.
by ShootTheJ on Apr 30, 2008 11:28 AM PDT 0 recs
That's the point though...
All most of these guys ever do is make dogmatic statements without any defensible arguments. Unless they have some unnamed “inside source close to _...”. Apparently Jason has GO on his speed dial.
/end frustrated rant
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
by JAB21 on
Apr 30, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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I'm not concerned
KP has gone after guys who want to be in Portland. That’s an approach you have to take when you are in a small market- some guys won’t want to sign with you. Fortunately, KP has a good sense of how to build a winner in a small market from his Spurs days.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Apr 30, 2008 1:49 PM PDT 0 recs
Disappointing
I really like Jason Smith, he is far and away the best ESPN radio talk show host (Cowherd is second, because as good as Colin is, he tries being a blowhard and stuff on purpose just as much as many others).
He’s hilarious, and he is always interesting, and has good discussions. I didn’t hear this, but I’m not going to fault him on one stupid thing.
I think this is really representative of our team and where we have come from. It takes the national media longer to catch up to what is really going on with any teams other than the big boys that ESPN ogles over (Anything NFL, NFL, NFL, NFL, Yankees, Red Sox, and a few others).
It’s ok, when we are as good as we are going to be, nobody is going to be making any mistakes about it.
by TimG on Apr 30, 2008 2:35 PM PDT 0 recs
Fact:
Good free agents don’t sign anywhere. You can count the number of big free agents that have switched teams in the past 15 years on one hand. Nash, Shaq (to LA), Boozer, uhhhhh Okur?
Corollary
Every team resigns their “up and coming players.” Again, exceptions: Shaq, Boozer, uhhhhhhh.
Why can’t we be a championship contender for three or four years? Because we’re not right now? How is SA or Denver any better suited for that, other than that they’re good right now.
This guy’s an idiot.
by OregonDuckworth on Apr 30, 2008 2:38 PM PDT 0 recs
It won't matter
KP is a genius, Oden, Roy, and LMA could all move to New York to play with LeBron and we’d be just fine.
Mahna mahna, (ba dee bedebe), mahna mahna, (ba debe dee), mahna mahna, (ba dee bedebe badebe badebe dee dee de-de de-de-de)
by tominhawaii on Apr 30, 2008 5:42 PM PDT 0 recs
That's one huge luxury tax bill
Only a rich guy like Paul Allen can afford that. Oh wait a minute… hold the phone… hey are you thinking what I’m thinking?
by LMA on
Apr 30, 2008 7:33 PM PDT
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what the heck
sign Chris Paul and we would only need 5 players
If all I'm remembered for is being a good basketball player, then I've done a bad job with the rest of my life. - Isiah Thomas
by JTDuck22 on
Apr 30, 2008 9:18 PM PDT
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Paul Allen is the richest owner in the NBA...
....................................... by far.
And he’s a super-fan to boot.
The “dead franchise” terminology is stupid, the guy is confusing REBUILDING franchises with INEPT franchises.
The Knicks are INEPT. The Sonics are REBUILDING. Memphis is INEPT. The Hawks are REBUILDING. Etc.
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
by timbo on May 1, 2008 8:43 AM PDT 0 recs












