Jack or Westbrook?

by amitp06 on Apr 20, 2008 7:08 PM PDT Comment 36 comments

So it seems like the main issue to address this summer is the PG position, even the SF situation seems adequate to me now. Steve Blake has been a solid player and should be one of the better backups in the league, but most agree that he's not the answer. For now, it looks like Sergio isn't going to get a major role in the next year or two. Realistically, we aren't going to go sign a Chris Paul type of player next summer or land a lucky trade for a Devin Harris without significantly changing the roster, so I ruled that out for the purpose of discussion.

That means that our current main option for the long term team is Jack. He's shown his value when it comes to things like attacking the basket or shooting free throws. On the other hand, some of those turnovers are just unwatchable. The issue is that Jack has just three seasons under his belt and it seems like some of his flaws may be remedied or at least limited by more development. Is it worth giving up just yet?

Another possible option is to draft a PG this year, probably the last time in a while that we'll have a good shot at an immediate impact player in the draft. Russell Westbrook is the player most seem to be looking at, as he fits our team well and is within reach of the Blazers (assuming we don't somehow win the lottery again). Westbrook provides the defense that would stop all those random guards that were killing us all year while also being an okay option on offense. The problem is that he's another player who will need a few years to develop. Do the Blazers really want to go through the wait again and hope it works out?

We will probably need to move up a little to get Westbrook or hope he falls to us. Either way, it will most likely mean that Jack is gone in the long run. So which one would you prefer? Jack still has some potential and some experience going his way, while Westbrook has a lot more potential but no guarantees. Another thing to consider is that adding Oden alone may help with some of those defensive problems in the previous paragraph, making Westbrook a little less needed. It also depends if the Blazers are looking to seriously contend next year or just reach the playoffs and become readier for a championship run in the near future. We can't have a rookie PG playing lots of minutes in the first case, but I think we would still make the playoffs. I've been a Jack supporter so it's a tough decision for me, so answer the poll below and comment. Hope to be convinced.

Edit: As mentioned in the comments, another possible option is to use Roy at PG. Personally, I'm not a much of a fan of using Roy as the primary PG because I want to keep him in his natural role. Go ahead and select the third option if you want to choose Roy though.

Poll

Who would you want to be the Blazers PG of the future?

Jarrett Jack

15 votes

Russell Westbrook

69 votes

Neither (explain below)

26 votes

110 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

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Comments

westbrook

i think Westbrook’s defense becomes almost more of a necessity with Oden coming in next year, with GO and LMA in the middle none of the guards will want to go into the lane meaning we will need some perimeter defense. right now brandon plays pretty good D and Martel and Travis show signs of improvement but the point guards havent shown much. Westbook also has the same offensive ability to get to the hoop that jarret jack has, the only drop off would be in experience and free throw shooting

by blackandwite323 on Apr 20, 2008 7:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I dont understand

Penetration is what breaks down defenses not perimeter shooting. If the presence of Oden makes guards stay on the perimiter then it makes the job of wing defenders easier as they have on less thing to worry about if one of the offensive players threats is taken away.

I also doubt that people will be afraid to drive against a rookie center as it is a good way to get a him in foul trouble. People still drive at Camby all the time.

Thats how I see it at least.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Apr 20, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i meant that our weakness of the defense will change from the interior (this year) to the perimeter (next year) If we have a solid perimeter defender then our defense will be well rounded. Plus westbrook has the defensive skills to be the next, dare i say, “kobe stopper”

by blackandwite323 on Apr 20, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There cant really be too much defense.

just look at the spurs. and if we draft westbrook and get rid of jack it would not hurt us next year, even if he wasnt very good at first becausewe have blake and Roy , ..... and sergio who can play the point and rudy or even Webster could play the 2.

by raging WebTed on Apr 20, 2008 7:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

losing jack

would hurt us….it hurt our depth. When we were winning in the first half of the season…it was our bench that carried our starters. Towards the end of the year it was the opposite (but that was because Trout and JJ1 was subbing into the starting lineup tho.

by Philthyanimal on Apr 20, 2008 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next year

it really would not hurt us. You have to realize that Outlaw is gonna get better, Frye will be in his correct position coming off the bench, and Pryz would be the back up center. Also we have Rudy and Sergio coming off the bench. Our bench would be just as efective and maybe even better then this year, and James Jones might also be back. I think the best thing for portland would be to package our pick with jack to move up to get westbrook.

by ggassen85 on Apr 20, 2008 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're going to replace him with someone better

by leeroyjenkins on Apr 21, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

here's my problem with Jarrett, and I hope he's tuned in

I could accept that he is turnover prone- thats not entirely problematic- even his worst turnovers, however cause to shudder, arent as much a concern as his mismatched and undefined style of play. What has bothered me the most about Jarrett is how he behaved when Blake rightfully took the reigns. Jarrett complained about his role, specifically his lack of involvement in the offense, and the offense not designed to get him shots. It seemed to me maybe jarrett wasnt bleeding red AND black.

It stuck in my craw all season and then I started noticing something about Jarrett’s play that really bothered me. I saw Jarrett give up. Jarrett too many times quit playing when frustrated. I like Jarrett, he was a good pick who has done alot for the PTB, but he is no way the future, and I hope he has success where ever he gets traded to.

"Well now, were you fellas going with all that beer?"

by bow4meow on Apr 20, 2008 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't remember

ever seeing Jack “give up”. This could be because I don’t have Comcast and all the times it happened were during those games. Could you give some specific examples of when he gave up? To me, Jack seemed like one of the guys who never stopped hustling and trying. You almost make him sound like Vince Carter and that seems really really far from the actual case.

by DrivetheLane on Apr 20, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do I make him look like Vince Carter

Jimmy Carter would be a closer bet.

heres what I saw frequently…. Jarrett’s failure to get back on defense after the offense sputters…. I cant say it happened in the 3rd against the Jazz at the 4:19 mark, but it happened, trust me. Jarrett’s typical agony surfaced in the forms of hands on head or utter failure to get back and defend. Does that seem out of character for a guy who moans about not getting more of the spotlight on this team?

"Well now, were you fellas going with all that beer?"

by bow4meow on Apr 20, 2008 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spotlight moaning

If I remember right, JJ was frustrated that the shots he was getting in the offense were spot up three pointers. That isn’t his strength and he wanted to get opportunities to take the ball to the rack instead of standing outside waiting for a shot to come to him. He felt he wasn’t being used effectively in the offense and he spoke his mind to his coach who asked him to speak his mind.

Also, you probably did see Jack not get back on defense a few times but I wouldn’t characterize it as a frequent occurence. He controlled his emotions much more this year than in his first two years where what you described happened frequently with him and Webster. They both improved dramatically this year in that aspect of their games.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Apr 20, 2008 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that sounds right

coach asked Jarrett if he had a problem because of his attitude during practice…. Jarrett complained about his role and involvement in the offense. Too bad Jarrett. He’s one of 12 guys playing and hardly deep enough on the chart to even think about suggesting the coach is playing him in a way that doesnt garner him more attention. That’s not coaches fault Jarrett is a tweener.

"Well now, were you fellas going with all that beer?"

by bow4meow on Apr 21, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Attention

Why do you think getting attention is the motivator for Jack? Why can’t it be a valid frustration over being misused? It isn’t like he was complaining over getting shots, he was complaining that the shots he was getting were not the shots he felt most comfortable taking. Thus he wasn’t helping the team.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Apr 21, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You make him sound like VC

with the following (in my opinion): complains about lack of involvment in offense, quitting during play. Both of those things remind me of VC, the latter more than the former. I agree that not getting back on defense is a huge mistake, but I kind of liked the times he showed frustration after messing up. I think most specifically about that fast break at home against Denver that he messed up, then hit the floor in disgust and didn’t get back. I don’t like that he messed up and didn’t get back, but at least you could tell he was upset with himself. To me, that’s a sign he wants to get better.

by DrivetheLane on Apr 21, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hangs his head, mopes

It happened four or five times this season, that I remember clearly off the top of my head.

by leeroyjenkins on Apr 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like people so far are saying that Westbrook would be able to perform as well as Jack in his first couple of seasons, except in a couple of different areas. I haven’t seen Westbrook enough to really know about that, so can anybody who has put in their opinion on that? If that is true, it’s pretty much impossible to argue for Jack.

by amitp06 on Apr 20, 2008 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jack is young just like

the rest of the team.Sure, there are few teams who get the gold ring and draft a PG who is an immediate impact player. But it’s not unreasonable to expect some growth from young players.

Other than Roy, Jack is the only one on the team who will just sack up and go to the rim to make something happen. Sure, he’ll give up a turnover, but he also disrupts defenses, draws fouls and is a dead bang lock at the foul line in the clutch.

If he coul dlearn to run the break better, he’d seem a lot better to us. He’s basically a sound player.

by raoulduke on Apr 20, 2008 8:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thats the dilemna

good call rao, its not like theres an obvious SEBASTION TELFAIR in this draft

"Well now, were you fellas going with all that beer?"

by bow4meow on Apr 20, 2008 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only it were 'a' turnover

Mostly JJ’s one skill is putting his head down and running to the rim. Sometimes it works. A lot of times it doesn’t. And he’s a sieve on defense.

by leeroyjenkins on Apr 21, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook is a good athlete/finisher/defender

But where is there any evidence of his point guard skills? Although he can guard points he cannot play the offensive point guard position. From watching him in person and several times on TV I ‘ve noticed that he has either backs the ball in very slowly protecting his dribble or he attacks at full speed. A point guard must be comfortable handling the ball and setting it up. Westbrook is going to be harassed on the ball and it will break down into driving it every single time.

I cannot believe that 63% of you think Russell Westbrook is the Blazers PG of the future.

Disclosure: I like Jarrett Jack nearly as much as SergioFTW likes Sergio, but I don’t think J. Jack is our long term future PG. I really don’t know who that will be. My guess is Roy & a combo guard. I prefer Bayless or Boobie Gibson.

by tweener on Apr 20, 2008 10:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

his assists where higher than both gordon and mayo last season, both are supposed to become pg’s in the nba, plus he ran the point for UCLA a bit in the season, with some work on his ball handling abilities I think point guard is where he will find himself in the NBA, his physical skills are to great to pass up for someone with slightly more polish

by blackandwite323 on Apr 20, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the tournament

Westbrook showed that he could play the point when collision went out with fouls and he had to step up. Cleveland likes Gibson and why would he want to leave LeBron James. What I saw of Bayless he was very quick but he seemed like he was out of control and kind of played weak and small, he also had some trouble guarding people like Bryce Taylor who is alright but he can’t compare to the point guards of the NBA. He also focused solely on scoring which I don’t think we need out of a guard even with roy.

by raging WebTed on Apr 20, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We probably can't get Boobie, butt

he was a college teammate of Lamarcus at texas and the Blazers arguably will be a better fit for him (near the top of league in 3pt. shooting) than the Cavs. The Cavs also are reported to have a previous interest in J. Jack.

by tweener on Apr 20, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some might say

that he is the best PG on the team, even with Collison. Some might say that Collison is the best player on UCLA. And Some Might Say we will find a brighter day!

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on Apr 20, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good call

Right.. I should’ve included Roy in the fanpost since that’s another possible option.. I just forgot, probably since I’m a big believer in keeping Roy at SG. Guess that explains a bunch of the ‘neither’ votes.

by amitp06 on Apr 20, 2008 10:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jack fits our timeline

and is going to get better. PG is the hardest position to learn and play at the NBA level. Everyone always compares him to Chauncey Billups, and he didn’t fully develop until his late 20s. Jack has plenty of room to improve and has shown that he wants to.

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Apr 20, 2008 10:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

not chauncey

They may have compared him to Chauncey, and he is bald and looks kind of like him but he won’t be near as good as him. He also was good at defense, which is one of the big reasons a lot of people want him gone. And how often is it that players live up to their comparisons, just ask Sergio Rodriguez, who is going to be the next Steve Nash, or Adam Morrison who was compared to Larry Bird. and do we have a timeline? o yeah the next 15 years. blake is definatley good enough and it will be rudy who will be takeing most of Jacks minutes if he leaves.

by raging WebTed on Apr 20, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoever becomes our point guard

I think should be able to run the fast break/ up-tempo offense; because it seems that we do a lot better when doing so. Westbrook fits this, but so do several other guards.

by raging WebTed on Apr 20, 2008 10:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I will be the designated Blake backer

How does Super Steve not fit the perfect back court buddy for Roy? He doesn’t need the ball to be effective (Jack does) He can shoot the 3 from spot up position (Jack can’t) His assists to turnover ratio is on par with Roy’s (Jack’s isn’t) He has shown he can run a fast break very successfully last year in Denver (Jack can’t) He has shown he can be effective attacking the hoop (Jack is better but his drives lead to many more turnovers) Is anybody going to say Jack is a better defender than Blake?

I hear a lot about how Steve is not a starting point guard for a championship team. To me he is like a younger Derrick Fisher with loads more assists. Look up their stats. Give me Blake or give me death.

by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 20, 2008 10:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook or Jack?? Neither.

You are on the money with Blake sir, I have been saying it since last July:

http://www.blazersedge.com/2007/7/10/16145/3423

He is the perfect compliment to Roy. The great thing about KP, is that he probably realizes this, but wont be satisfied with Blake as a starter. He is building a dynasty, Blake might be good enough, but KP wont take any chances. He knows the point is the quarterback of any team, and he wants a good one. If we know one thing, its that KP goes out and gets what he wants, and I think he wants a high caliber point guard. I used these charectoristics last off season to define our future point guard, so I will use them again this year:

-Good Character
-Above average, versatile defender
-Pass first, ie a facilitator
-Ability to hit from range to keep the d honest.
-Ability to get out and run the break, make difficult passes and smart decisions on the run
-Basically a smart and savy player that can defer leadership to Roy and play solid perimeter d

There is only one player I can think of that fits all of this and is a significant upgrade from Blake: Its Devin Harris. I think KP does what it takes to get Devin Harris. Jack, Outlaw, Frye, and our pick will likely be on the table. My bottom line is our point guard of the future is Devin Harris. Book it.

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Apr 21, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not entirely persuaded

I’m high on Blake. I’m not sure we’ll trade for Harris.

I think next year is Sergio’s time, and that he may well play the point on the second unit, backing up Blake. If he makes a splash, we may not acquire a PG.

Koponen also has the potential to be our PG of the future.

I could see them riding one more year with Blake, to see if any of your young PGs break out, before making any major moves. You can win with Blake, anyway. If one of them steps up, then Blake probably starts in 09-10 as well, before moving to the bench. If none of them lift their game, then use your cap space to sign or trade for a top PG. I’m not sure they’ll make a move this year on PG. We might just draft another one, counting on Blake to hold the fort until one of them steps up or we sign a free agent.

When I rule the world, Isiah Thomas will be coach and GM of the L*kers, who will be owned by someone who no one respects whose first initial is "J".

by jscot on Apr 21, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wouldnt kirk Hinrich fit this

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/playerStats?categoryId=140999

he wasnt that good this year but we could buy low

by raging WebTed on Apr 22, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Call. I like it

I think Hinrich certainly fits that mold and would work well next to Roy…

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Apr 23, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK,

I love Blake, but if you ranked all the PGs in the league he would rank like 31st. Which makes him a really, really really, really good backup.

by Winchester on Apr 21, 2008 12:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Neither

JJ to put it simply isn’t good enough and Westbrook is a project. Why not try to find a proven solution rather than using a ‘reach’ pick on someone who may leave you still needing a PG in three years?

Blake is a good back-up but he can’t defend anyone and he isn’t a reliable enough shooter to keep defenses honest.

by leeroyjenkins on Apr 21, 2008 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

JJ good energy guy

JJ will probably never be our starting pg but I think he does have value. Quite a few times this season when the rest of the team was settling for jump shots Nate would stick JJ in the game to provide some energy and hustle. He’s one of the few guys on the team that is’t content to shot jumpers all game long. He’s skill is driving the lane and shooting freethrows. If only he could learn to look up while he’s dribbling so he can find the open man. His court vision is where he needs to improve.

Westbrook would be a good fit for us but there’s no way he’ll be there at 13. Right now he’s climbing everyone’s draft board. How about trading down and then taking Mario Chalmers. Good defensive player and clutch shooter but also seems to need improve his ball hanling skills.

JRogero

by JRogero on Apr 21, 2008 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs