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Musings on the Knick game + more point guard blather

First, a few of my thoughts on last night's game.

Despite the unfortunate outcome, I found it tremendously entertaining viewing. And, much as I loathe Isiah, his unquestioned gift for unearthing below-the-radar talent has given the Knicks some exciting young players. Lee, Robinson, Balkman, Chandler all show tremendous promise and hint at a bright future ahead. In his game recap Dave asks Knick fans if we "would prefer to field this lineup for the short term rather than the bloated, overpaid, selfish, directionless mess they started the season with." My answer is a resounding, shout-it-from-the-rooftops "YES." Problem, of course, is that we first need to find someplace to dump Zach, Eddy, Stephon, and Jamal whose absurd mega-contracts all but command that they play mega-minutes. And the only real dumping ground for those contracts in today's NBA is directly upstairs from the Madison Square Garden hardwood in the executive suites of Two Penn Plaza.

Star-divide

Ah, but no need for me to belabor Isiah's shortcomings as GM. Especially not when last night's loss - still fresh in my mind - offers an opportunity to harp upon his shortcomings as a coach. Not that they're really disconnected, mind you. When you're responsible for assembling a roster made up almost exclusively of selfish, one-on-one, no-defense chuckers it pretty much obviates the need for any kind of real coaching. And, boy oh boy, was that utter lack of a disciplined approach ever evident against the Blazers on Saturday night: a stingy 15 assists on 43 made buckets (only two players - Nate and Q-Rich- even had more than one); ghostlike - hell, Caspar the Friendly Ghostlike - defense (why the Blazers did not try and exploit this more is a conundrum); bizarre personnel decisions (why did rookie center Randolph Morris get a DNP? Certainly he could not have been that much of a drop-off in talent from the likes of Re-lik Rose and may have given NY some much needed bulk in the paint)

For all intents and purpose, the Knick strategy pretty much boiled down to "Let Nate Robinson do his thaang." And it nearly worked until late in OT when Nate finally ran out of gas. When that happened, Isiah pretty much had to concede the ballgame. Bereft of any notion on how to deploy the rest of his talent, he simply chose to throw in the towel and let the clock run down with about a minute left in the extra frame. Pathetic.

But the upside of New York's complete and utter lack of a coherent game plan was that it afforded fans the chance to witness a truly dazzling display of individual basketball by Nate Robinson. And although Isiah's over-reliance on him ultimately proved suicidal, Nate's performance was downright electrifying. So much so that I fully expected to log on to Blazers Edge this morning and find his name added to the wish list of point guards that y'all would like to see Pritchard go after.  

Yet, with the exception of a few stray comments here and there, I found nothing of the sort (not that I would want to see him leave the Knicks) But watching him yuk it up with Roy, Webster & McMillan after the game suggests that there is a genuine chemistry among the members of the "Seattle Mafia" - one that would translate well to the banks of the Willamette.  Nate is still on his rookie contract. And, he has a similar skill set to another spendier PG who's been much salivated over on this site, Devin Harris.

Right now Harris strikes me as Tony Parker-lite: a lightning quick, shoot first PG who scores most of his points in the paint but whose passing skills and shooting range are still average at best. Maybe one day he'll justify the 5-year, $42 million contract that Mark Cuban gave him but at this point in his career it seems a tad overpriced. It's certainly not as reasonable as the contract awarded to another similarly styled player, Leandro Barbosa, who in 2006 signed for five years, $33 million.  But if that's the kind of PG you'd like the Blazers to pursue, I'd think that Nate Robinson - who pretty much has the same skills and an established rapport with Brandon Roy and a rookie contract to boot - would represent the most attractive option.

But is that really the kind of PG that you want for the Blazers? While much of the PG discussion on this site has been focused on who Portland should target, I think the more relevant question is what kind of point guard do you think would work best for this team? Is it the Parker/Harris/Robinson type? Or is the classic, pass-first Stockton/Nash/Paul variety what your team really needs?

Ordinarily, this is a no-brainer for me. Under normal circumstances, I'd go with the pass-first playmaker every time. But adding Brandon Roy to the equation certainly muddies the question. Roy has often been touted as the Blazers' true PG - someone who needs to initiate the offense to be at his most effective. Many here have wondered what the impact on Brandon's game would be were Portland to introduce an honest-to-goodness, old school PG into the mix. Some have cited Roy's All-Star game as proof that he can happily co-exist with the likes of a Chris Paul. But - as Dave has sagely pointed out - performances in the All Star Game are indicative of precisely nothing.

Although I'm not really a stat geek, perhaps numbers might be instructive in this instance. John Hollinger has developed a nifty little algorithm that he terms pure point rating (PPR). Basically, it's a more refined version of the assist/turnover ratio which can be used to quickly identify those players whose game fits within the classic, pass-first PG mode. A glance at the current league leaders in PPR show some familiar names topping the list:

Player             PPR
Chris Paul          12.8
José Calderón    12.8
Steve Nash        10.7
Jason Kidd         9.0
Deron Williams   8.9                      
T.J. Ford            8.8
Chauncey Billups 8.5

Working your way down the list, you can see that Brandon Roy has a PPR of 5.2 - which is behind Steve Blake's 6.4. However, Roy's PPR is also well ahead of Devin Harris' 3.6, whose rating resides in the neighborhood of such PGs as Allen Iverson (4.0), Tony Parker (3.9),  Mike Bibby (3.6), and Stephon Marbury (3.4). (For the record, Jarrett Jack's current PPR is 0.8; Sergio's is 3.4)

So if you accept these numbers as kind of a rough measure of true PG ability, you can argue that (1) the Blazers should move heaven, earth, and Paul Allen's bankroll to bring Calderón on board because (2) Roy has a ways to go before he can realistically be expected to run the point as well as a Calderón or any of the NBA's other top playmaking PGs. However, if you consider these numbers suspect or otherwise feel that the Blazers don't really need a PG in the classical mold, you might contend that what Brandon brings is plenty good enough and that a scoring PG of the Harris/Robinson ilk would make the perfect complement to him in Portland's backcourt.

What of it, Blazerfan? I've e-prattled on long enough. I'm curious to hear what type of PG you think would best serve the Blazers in their pursuit of an NBA title once Oden and possibly Rudy have been added to the mix.

Poll
What kind of point guard would best suit the Blazers?
The team's current crop of PGs is good enough, thank you very much.
5 votes
A classic pass-first PG in the vein of Steve Nash or Chris Paul.
68 votes
A fleet-footed, scoring PG like Allen Iverson or Tony Parker.
16 votes

89 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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Comments

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Not enough choices
How about a PG who can push the ball up the court under control and initiate a fast-break but then also hit three-pointers in the half-court offense even if he doesn't initiate the offense?  (Billups, John Paxson)  

Essentially Steve Blake when he is playing his best basketball.  The problem is that Blake seems to play like this for a little while and then lose his edge and isn't as aggressive at pushing the pace.

by tssbro on Mar 9, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I would like over the summer for steve to go on steroids and come back as Super Steve, bigger,  faster, stronger. Able to hit the three from halfcourt and to defend the perimeter as well as  Oden will the paint.

I look at Blake as a backup combo guard and he works so well with Roy I want the same in the starting PG, great 3pt%, great D and the ability to drive the lane and pass when needed to. Roy coming in at 4-6 APG and PG/SG TBD come in at 5-7 APG. We do not need a 10-12 APG guard such as Paul Nash etc but would be fine if we did.

The whole thing is how much do we need to acquire said player, a LOT, but since a SG/PG who can hit the 3 and play good is more of a situational need, we should be able to get one for a lot cheaper than a 10-12 pure PG which EVERYBODY and their dog wants.

This draft shapes up VERY nicely for us as there are so many players that could help us out. Sure Rose is a "pure" PG, but Mayo, Bayless, Gordon and Westbrook (in that order) are all more combo guards than PG or SG. Hopefully this will devalue them and one may slide to us or we can move up.

The NBA

Where Kyle Korver happens.

by SpyderRyder on Mar 9, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense is the Key
I think that Roy is capable of being either or both a scorer or passer and championships are won on defense.  We have enough offensive weapons providing that they are a reasonable enough threat offensively to keep the other teams honest.  

From the offensive stand point, Blake is acceptable, but what last nights game showed us is we really need is somebody that can slow down a quicker PG from driving at will and we do not have any one on the current roster that can do that, including Roy.

If we do not find somebody that can do that our bigs are going to get in terrible foul trouble trying to make up for our defensive lack of speed.  Historically I think the perfect fit for this team would be somebody like Greg Anthony, who could score but was a defensive stopper.

by lonevoiceofreason on Mar 9, 2008 4:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great point
and one that points up the obvious inadequacies of the type of oversimplifications that I was guilty of in my diary.

As I was writing, I thought about the whole issue of defense and whether or not I should include it as a choice. I decided that since most of the suggestions made here for prospectives PGs seemed to focus on the offensive side of the ledger, I decided to limit the debate to the question to the type of offensive PG people would like to see on this team.

Equally valid was tssbro's point that the choices I offered did not do justice to the various sets and subsets of offensive PG styles out there. Once again, I confess to opting for the crude dichtomy of pass first vs. score first PG instead of trying to list the myriad number of available choices. Like most diaries, I intended it more as a jumping off point for discussion than a definitive breakdown of the possibilties extant.

To me, what makes this whole question so fascinating is the presence of Brandon Roy. Obviously if Roy were not on the team, the desire for a premiere pass-first PG would be overwhelming and hardly worthy of debate here. However, recent NBA history has demonstrated that teams do not need a pass first PG to win a title if they have a bona fide superstar that they can run their offense through i.e. MJ, LeBron, Duncan. In the end, I guess I was really curious to see whether people here felt that Roy's game and skill-level precluded the need for a top-flite, pure PG.  

by knickfan on Mar 9, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto
I think the biggest deficiency of the Blazers' point guards is at the defensive end.  Even the dynamic duo of Oden/Aldridge can't be expected to stem a continual tide of penetrating guards.

Having said that, it WOULD be nice to have a point guard with Nate Robinson's penetrating and finishing ability.  At least he gives you Knick fans a dynamic talent to watch--and you can't beat that personality, either.  He lights up the building.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Mar 9, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Blake is the mold ...
We just need someone who's a little better at doing the same things.

Our PG of the future should have:

  1. Good shooting range and percentage. With Roy breaking down his man so often and commanding constant double and triple teams, our PG will receive a lot of open looks. He needs to knock them down. Blake does this better than most any PG in the league, and I think it's unrealistic for us to expect the Blazers to find someone who can do this better than Steve, but I would hope we don't have a drop off in this department.

  2. Defense. This is where I think Brandon has his toughest time being classified as a full-time PG. He simply will not be able to stay with the quicker guards in the league, many of whom reside in the Western Conference. Blake plays good positional defense, Jack plays good physical defense, and Sergio is a sieve, so I would hope for an improvement here. Someone who's tough, knows how to position himself, but also has the quickness to stay with quicker guards and recover when beaten without demanding too much help from elsewhere. It is the last portion of this equation that we're missing here, which is why opposing guards--especially quick ones--seem to constantly light us up night in and night out. I don't mind seeing Chris Paul and Tony Parker have big games against us, but when Janero Pargo, Earl Watson, and now Nate Robinson start having career nights against us, we have serious issues defending the PG position. Westbrook seems to fit the mold of an athletic, defensive minded PG in this year's draft.

  3. Finally, I'd like to have a PG with ability to drive and finish at the rim, but as you can see this is rated below the need for someone who can knock down the open shot and play good defense.

We often joke that we wish our three PGs could combine their abilities into one super-guard, like Voltron or something, but indeed that is exactly what we need. In looking around the league, really the only player that fits this mold to a T and is young enough for me to want to acquire is Jordon Farmar. Too bad there's no way the L@kers are letting him go now that he's playing lights out.

by bfan on Mar 9, 2008 5:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What I want in a point guard
  1. Leadership

  2. Excellent Court Vision

  3. Ability to dictate pace

  4. Lock Down Defense- Speed to stay in front of people and the tenacity and know how to contest everything

  5. Ability to knock down open shots

  6. Pass first mentality

  7. Ability to break down defense and draw fouls

  8. Excellent foul shooting

  9. Clutch

I am thinking John Stockton. Ya, Stockton will do.

by jferg on Mar 9, 2008 6:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Can I take both A and B?
If choice A is Chris Paul...then I'll take a pass first point guard.  If choice B is Tony Parker...then I'll take a fleet footed scoring point guard.  

I want a fleet footed point guard who passes, finishes at the hoop, shoots the 3 pretty well, and plays tough defense.  Is that too much to ask for?

by JasonT on Mar 9, 2008 6:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The difference between Nate Rob and Devin Harris?
DEE-fence clapclapclap, DEE-fence clapclapclap, DEE-fence clapclapclap

Amazing how Nate Rob has one good game against us and all the blazer fans start talking him up.  In addition to playing no defense and being a 5'7 shooting guard who loves going one on five, the dude's kind of a punk, he instigated that "brawl" with the nuggets last year and tried to start another with the bulls last year.  While he may just be the victim, something was going on with Zbo deciding to give him an impromptu shower in the huddle a few weeks ago.

Starting point guard for our team?  Shoot, I'm not sure that he makes it as a backup in the league for a bad, non-Isiah team.  Very few coaches/gms outside of Isiah give PT to a 5'7 shooting guard who refuses to pass.

by howlingfantods on Mar 9, 2008 11:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Yes, Yes
Our greatest need at the point is defense, and all the way through the diary, I was chanting DEE-fence in my head.

I see from his comment he left it out on purpose.  But if we are going to try to trade to improve our PG situation, the first thing we ought to be looking for is someone who can really defend.  If we can't get it, I'll settle for a Calderon, he's enough of an improvement on the offensive end to make it worth it.  But most of all, I want someone who can defend.

I'm frequently right, but always certain

by jscot on Mar 10, 2008 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a technical for taunting?
I'm not sure that fits in "character".  He was fun to watch - I'm just glad he didn't beat us.  However we offered up a "career night" to Blake-as-Nugget last season so one night does not do anything except point out that we cannot stop pgs when they are on a roll.
"If the Blazers are going to have any chance of making the playoffs, they're going to have to make every game a physical one." - Casey H., March 3.

by jorga on Mar 10, 2008 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still a Deron Williams fan.
The guy ranks high on the PPR rating above, but can also take over a game with his scoring ability and is a pretty good defender.

If I could have one Blazer do-over, it would be to have held on to our 2005 draft pick and select Williams.  A backcourt of Williams and Roy would be as much feared as our front court of Oden and Aldridge.

So as to defer all you Chris Paul supporters - I'm not saying Williams is a better point guard.  Just that I like him a tad better and think he would be a slightly better match with Roy.  I will concede that Paul's performance this season has elevated him above most other PG's in the league.

by timg56 on Mar 10, 2008 7:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice Diary
I hate Nate and would hate him on the team.  I see to remember his celebrations more than his good plays.  I'm with lonevoiceofreason, I don't care if we have a scoring point guard, I just want someone who is cute and plays good defense.  
That was so fetch!

by tominhawaii on Mar 10, 2008 7:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I should have added
this comment to my other post, but oh well...

I don't want to draft another p.g. I've learned from other BErs that pgs take longer to develop and we don't want someone who will become good in five years.

Look at JJack - third year, it's now becoming obvious he isn't a pure point guard and it almost seems like he's the only one who doesn't realize this.  Sergio, second year - still not getting enough minutes to develop/learn ... I'm afraid he's falling off the radar, plus he'll be playing with the Spanish team this summer, not hanging around here refining NBA play.  Then there's Petteri still probably years from leading an NBA team.

The only baby point guard we need is young Derek.  

"If the Blazers are going to have any chance of making the playoffs, they're going to have to make every game a physical one." - Casey H., March 3.

by jorga on Mar 10, 2008 8:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Sergio won´t play Olimpic Games
The Spanish PGs probably will be, if healthy, Calderon, Ricky Rubio and Carlos Cabezas.
"You´ll never walk alone"

by amlmart1 on Mar 10, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's fun to speculate on PGs
but unless they are high on Pritchard's special "stat board" they have no chance playing here. Look at players that excel in efficiency measurments like Hollinger's and that will give you a clue to who Pritchard will target. One-on-one defense is not as important to Pritchard due to the Blazer zone and Oden. A complimentary player to Roy who can make the offense click without coughing up the ball is probably the most desirable.

Based on that, it's not hard to believe Pritchard wishes he had gotten Calderon instead of Sergio (and is still looking for a way to pry him loose from Toronto).

by Blazerholic on Mar 10, 2008 9:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What about Rudy in a 2-combo-guard setup?
I'm wondering whether his skill set would complement B-Roy with both of them in the backcourt. He's as tall as Brandon but skinnier -- does that mean he's quicker? How's his handle and passing ability? If Brandon can handle point duties part of the game, could Rudy handle them during the other part, with Blake backing them up? Has he played point guard before?

by MiledAnimal on Mar 10, 2008 12:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gilbert references Blake
Agent Zero, in his blog, is talking about PG's and whether they should score, or if they score does that make them not a "pure PG".  

"It's hard to sit here and nitpick, because usually your pure point guards are your backup point guards. Your Steve Blakes..."

I hope this link works: http://my.nba.com/forum.jspa?forumID=400032200&start=0

by porterfan30 on Mar 10, 2008 1:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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