Martell Webster

by Dheepan on Mar 2, 2008 9:01 PM PST

This year he's stepped up to being a contributor averaging about 10ppg, but is he where you want him to be right now?

He's in his 3rd season as a pro and has shown significant statistical improvements in points,assists, and rebounds but his numbers per 36 minutes are not better than his Rookie season.

He's disappeared for long stretches of the game and doesn't actively seemed to be involved with the offense.

His shot has shown great form but he hasn't shot it well this season. Although he's a respectable 37% from 3, he's shooting only 41% overall. He's shown that he can get to the rim with the ball, but most of the time he'll be be passive and pass to someone else on the perimeter.

Even though he's been given a lot of stability with playing time and starting, he still seems way too tense, always second guessing himself, and beating himself up over mistakes.

The psychological factor i think is huge, but do you think that'll ever change?

Would you move him in the off-season?

Do you think he would benefit from playing the 2 where he is more physically suited?

And finally do you think he'll end up on the Blazers 'championship' roster, and if so, what kind of level?

Tweet Comment 33 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Oh and

I'd like to say I'm really loving his defense this year, he's played against some terrific players and held his own. Remember the first LA game? He's had some spectacular dunks as well.

by Dheepan on Mar 2, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions

He's young

If you watch the highlights reels from his high school games, his opponents were clearly outmatched, so he has a LOT to learn about playing against NBA caliber players.
And the mental factor is obviously huge.

I know next to nothing about basketball, but I read all your comments about Outlaw, and of course can see that's he's "turned the corner." Surely Blazers management will keep Travis in mind as they judge Martell.

So, my answer is, I dunno, but he sure COULD become a great player, and I think we give him a few more years.

by Section323 on Mar 2, 2008 9:08 PM PST reply actions

I'm not at all sold

The only thing keeping me from flat out saying "trade him" is that I was on the "trade Outlaw" bandwagon for 4+ years and I think 3rd year Webster is quite a bit better than 3rd year Outlaw was.

by jksnake99 on Mar 2, 2008 10:29 PM PST reply actions

He's 21

He'd only be a junior in college this season.

I've always told my buddy that you can't judge a high school player after 3 years -- gotta give him 5.

by Scorcho on Mar 2, 2008 10:42 PM PST reply actions

it sucks but its true

High school players need the extra time to develop. The nba got it right when they demanded a year of college. I think they should make it two to be honest, at least players could get an associates degree in that time...

Rudy > MJ

by myemic23 on Mar 2, 2008 10:56 PM PST up reply actions

Now think about Ricky Rubio

playing as ones of the best PG in Spanish ACB with just 17. I want him in Portland 3 years from now.

"You, my friend, are an enigma" (einman77)

by amlmart1 on Mar 2, 2008 11:37 PM PST up reply actions

I am definitely going to be watching RR...

during the next year or so and if he continues to look like he is following in the footsteps of Sergio and Rudy, then I too would like to see RR here in Portland. So far the "Spanish Connection" is really showing mountains of potential. I think Joventut is our best farm team.

Maybe we could call it the "Spanish Invasion". It could be reminiscent of the Rock and Roll "British Invasion" of the 1960's.

35:35 Min, 10-18 FG, 2-2 FT, +6 +/-, 5 Off, 8 Reb, 2 Ast, 3 Stl, 22 Pts - LMA vs. LAL

by LaMarvelous on Mar 3, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions

Keep him for sure!

I was at the L*ker game Friday and I watched the game twice in entirety yesterday. I was feeling a bit under the weather (hung over) and I had the day off so I had time.
I didn't notice it as much when I saw the game live but after watching it the second and third time I saw a lot of little things that Martell did. He played nice D, had some nice passes (the double fake to Jones was key) and drove to the lane three times where he finish twice with a bucket and got fouled.
I don't think I need to talk a whole lot about the Outlaw debate of how his fourth year was his best and that he like Martell came out of high school.
I really think he could be our small of the future, and I think that next year will be huge for him.

by Blazermaniac77 on Mar 2, 2008 11:15 PM PST reply actions

Martell is NOT a two

I don't understand why people keep saying that. He simply can't handle the ball well enough to play guard in the NBA.

I don't know if he can make it as a three. He's so tense and awkward, despite his athleticism and gorgeous jumper. I haven't given up on him yet, but I would understand if Kevin Pritchard did. The Blazers' great need, it seems to me, is for improvement at the point guard position. So if Martell had to be packaged to help make that happen, I'd accept it.

The Blazers also need a "Maxsap" (Maxiell/Millsap/Bass-type) off the bench to replace Frye or McRoberts, but those are much easier to obtain than quality point guards.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Mar 3, 2008 12:49 AM PST reply actions

Martell is a 3.

I agree with that.

He's still not even a college senior, age-wise, so it would be extremely foolhardy to move him for a couple more years yet... That's the key thing for me -- his age. Too soon to tell the player he will ultimately be.

He does have a nice shooting stroke; seems to have trouble getting his shot when he's covered and not NEARLY aggressive enough a rebounder...

Are these things teachable? Perhaps. Will they be taught to him? Less likely.

I think the answer might be this: not new 3s, but a new coach for Small Forwards, who can really instruct how the position is played.

"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08

by timbo on Mar 3, 2008 8:28 AM PST up reply actions

Teachable and we have a good teacher...

Agreesiveness on rebounds, creating space for open shots, developing an offensive skill-set of moves that include drives, pull-ups, fade-aways, and the pick-and roll game, as well as further improvement of his perimeter defense. All of these things are teachable. All of these things are improved with experience. All of these "needs" are well within the "up-side" of Martell Websters athleticism and basketball ability.

Coach Nate has to do a great job with a player like Martell. I often read "Martell isn't part of this regime so they don't need to develop him, or they don't care because they are not tied to him..." all that is BULL. Martell is a highly talented basketball player, drafter 6th overall, and has shown improvements year after year.

It is on Nate and the coaching staff whether or not they can get this kid to the caliber of player that made him so highly touted out of high school. Pure Shooter, takes it to the rim agressively, excellent athlete, all of which I have read on his draft bios and encompass exactly what we want out of our SF position.

And they need to help him improve. Remember how much difference Z-bo was after one tremendous off-season? That is right, good enough to pritch-slap a team into eating his contract and dealing with his off-court life. But, Z-bo became one of the best offensive post players in the NBA, just from putting in the work and getting the attention from the coaches.

As this entire team is young, it is even more important that the coaches are TEACHING, not just running plays or standing on the sideline like the old perception of NBA coaches. Development is a key issue for the Blazers future. Without it, all our young talent would be lost on "potential". But, I believe they can and will develop the right players to make this the best group of Blazers we have ever seen.

by Scotty the Mastermind on Mar 3, 2008 9:13 AM PST up reply actions

"Maxsap"

"Maxsap" = Tyler Hansbrough

by DraftTylerHansbrough on Mar 3, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions

Rule number one

of the agreement to keep the Blazers in Portland states: No player with a nickname as stupid as psycho t is allowed within 100ft of the Blazes franchise.

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 3, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions

you know why he's call psycho t, right?

his nickname has nothing to do with his personality, just his intensity. he's a guy who would drive thru walls for his team, think blazers should stay away from a guy like that?

by spikex on Mar 3, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions

Yes

Who wants a guy going around town driving through walls? :)

I'm frequently right, but always certain

by jscot on Mar 4, 2008 4:49 AM PST up reply actions

I love you man

I with you.

"I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

by tominhawaii on Mar 4, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions

He's only 21?

That and one vs the L*kers did set the tempo for the rest of the game though. We need him to make shots for us. He is our outside threat. We have to make our 3s. Golden State made theirs and won.

Pure shooters just know to shoot. Is he a pure shooter? Maybe he is just a 2 guard and having trouble at the SF position at 6-7. Travis fits real well in the SF position at 6-9 behind Aldridge and Oden/Pryz. Thats why we can't have Roy bring the ball up all the time because he 6-6 like Jordan. A natural SG. 6-9 is good for a SF.

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

by theanomaly777 on Mar 3, 2008 12:49 AM PST reply actions

I said

maybe. Maybe he just needs to put that ball in the bucket and its as simple as that. We need him to shoot good to win games.

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

by theanomaly777 on Mar 3, 2008 12:55 AM PST reply actions

Gut feeling

I don't think he's ever going to be a star, he's never going to achieve his full potential and in that respect he's a faliure when you consider how high he was picked.

But I do think he can have a long and successfull career as a Devean George or Tim Thomas type. I don't think he's ever going to find his niche here.

by jayseyfield on Mar 3, 2008 1:32 AM PST reply actions

I think he'll be a star

Maybe not for us, but I think he'll be a great scorer eventually. Plus, he seems to WANT to be a star, which is both good and bad. If he's good enough to be a star, but not good enough to be a main option over any of LMA/ROY/ODEN, then he might pull a Joe Johnson and go join a team he can make his own. I have no idea if that is even a possibility or a goal of his, it's just a thought.

Martell has all of the tools, aside from ball handling. If he becomes a decent ball handler there's no reason he can't be a 2-guard (eventually), and he has the size to be a 3. He's not undersized for that position at all, especially if he can muscle up to someone like Lebron James, like he has shown this season.

We've all seen the flashes, and those flashes are what you cling to and hope to see more consistently with experience. Since he has shown he CAN do what we want him to do, it should just take some time. I don't think it'll take as long as Outlaw, and Martell is much more dependable and playing better than Outlaw had during his 3rd and even most of Outlaw's 4th season. Martell has the potential to be an easy 20 point scorer, and is a good rebounder and not horrible defender. As he grows up, builds confidence, keeps learning how to NBA it up, I don't see why he would not eventually be good.

It's normal for a guy like him to be up and down. He shoulda' gone to college. But, I'm glad we got him and I really root for the kid. If KP needs to package him in a deal to get a great championship piece, I'm fine with it-- just as long as he isn't given up on too early. He wants to be good, and that's what will help the most. He's too talented and driven to be a Devean George or (ugh) Tim Thomas. He just has more to learn.

Personally, I think he could average 18 points next season if he would just learn to dribble the damn basketball this summer. He's shown he can drive hard and finish, and he needs that to compliment his outside game. Unfortunately for now, he just sucks at dribbling. Fix that aspect of his game, it'll help him mentally and allow him to be a SG and not feel stuck with the ball when not wide open.

I haven't seen any reason to give up on someone like Webster.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Mar 3, 2008 4:54 AM PST reply actions

Not sure we can afford to wait

for Martell to 'maybe' become a star, if we're trying to make the playoffs and do some damage in the upcoming years.

Martell's got talent, there's no doubt, but it all comes down to if you are willing to bet on his intelligence and maturity. So far it doesn't looks like such a great bet. I'm not going to spend all day arguing with MW fans, but if you take all of the 'HOMER' out of the equation, the stats don't lie. He's not a good NBA player now. He's supposed to be a shooter, yet he shoots 41% from the field and 71% from the line. His Player Efficiency Rating of 11.64 is bad, 48th among NBA small forwards (yeah they have him as a '3').

Here are his peers in the PER department:

46 Michael Finley, 11.72
47 Mickael Pietrus, 11.70
48 Martell Webster, 11.64
49 Renaldo Balkman, 11.47
50 Luke Walton, 11.42
51 Ricky Davis, 11.36
52 Devin Brown, 10.92
53 Bobby Simmons, 10.44
54 Ira Newble, 9.80
55 Rasual Butler, 9.10

I suspect Webster will get one more year here to prove he's a legitimate NBA player. I believe he's signed though 2008-2009.

by leeroyjenkins on Mar 3, 2008 10:36 AM PST reply actions

We can wait

We can wait for him to become a star. We're not likely to win a championship next year anyway.

I think you are right that he gets one more year to prove he's a legitimate player. He doesn't have to be a star. He has to improve from the 48th best SF to 30-35. With the guys we have at other positions, in two years we can contend with that at the SF, especially with someone like Travis coming off the bench.

I could see Martell making steady but not spectacular improvement next year and the year after, and then blossoming into a big-time star at the ripe old age of 24. We could live with that. We don't need him to be a star next year or the year after, we just need him to keep improving. If he moves up to the 35th best SF next year, I could see him getting a contract like Travis got, maybe even a little more money, and I'd be pretty happy with that.

I'm frequently right, but always certain

by jscot on Mar 3, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions

Keep in Mind

Martell will be getting much better looks next season once we establish a much better inside game with Oden and an improving Aldridge.

We've all seen what the guy can do -- the 24-point quarter says it all -- but we need to get him freed up more. The other stuff (ball handling, dribble drives, etc.) will come with more experience.

I say you -- at the very least -- give the guy through the 08-09 season before you pull the trigger unless a star point guard comes along and you need to package Martell up in a deal for that guard.

by Scorcho on Mar 3, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions

He gets plenty of open looks now

He just doesn't hit them with any regularity.

And he can't create his own shot.

PROBLEM!

by leeroyjenkins on Mar 4, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions

MARTELL WEBSTER

I Feel he has has 3 yrs like most of the team to show drastic improvement. That has not happened,so i would try to get a better and more consistent shooter to replace him. You definitely want to keep travis outlaw because he has that fadeaway shot that not to many people can block. He also is a good defender with those long arms he has, to block shots and rebound. Thank you for reading.

BILL MCGEE

by BILLMCGEE on Mar 3, 2008 12:19 PM PST reply actions

You do realize...

... that Travis Outlaw wouldn't even be on our team if Pritchard canned him after 3 years of not showing much improvement (like you suggest with Martell), right?

by Scorcho on Mar 3, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions

Check out minutes played

In almost 3 seasons Martell's Minutes

Season Minutes Played
2005-06 1069
2006-07 1759
2007-08 1709
Total 4537

In almost 5 seasons, Outlaw's Minutes

Season Minutes Played
2003-04 19
2004-05 793
2005-06 1153
2006-07 1532
2007-08 1617
Total 5114

In terms of games played, they are pretty comparable in development, or lack there of in Webster's case.

by blzrfan on Mar 3, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions

actually

Martell has outperformed Trout on a year by year basis so far. Martell has had a better rookie year, soph year, and 3rd year than Outlaw.

by Philthyanimal on Mar 3, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions

Relative development and comparison

Martell played on some terrible teams and had better stats starting out. He has mostly been flat in development compared to the positive development trajectory of Travis Outlaw.

by blzrfan on Mar 3, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions

He's not going to be on the team next year.

Pritchard nearly traded him to NY. The only reason he didn't was Tom Penn coming up with the exception by including Fred Jones instead.

Remember that Pritchard has this gigantic board in his office that rates players using a complex statistical formula and scouting reports. If Pritchard was willing to trade Martell, methinks Martell is not very high on that board...

by Blazerholic on Mar 3, 2008 3:44 PM PST reply actions

Martell will probably another year here so

lets wait it a little. PG needs to get him the ball where he likes it. Lets focus on the PG situation first. Like Outlaw it seems like it takes a long time for these players to develop. The college experience playing team basketball is probably invaluable.

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

by theanomaly777 on Mar 3, 2008 7:22 PM PST reply actions

Not a star here

I think Martell has star potential. He's young and has held his own in the NBA. I think he could one day score 18pts/game as a second option for a team. It just won't be this team. There in lies the problem. He has the potential, but so long as he plays in Portland, he won't be able to realize that potential, as he just won't get the necessary touches or late game experience or leadership responsibility, etc. Martell's career would be best served elsewhere, as much as I don't want to admit that. In a previous post, someone mentioned the loss of Jermaine O'Neal to the Blazers. Sure he did become an all star in Indy, but lets face it, he never would have gotten that opportunity here. Down the line, if Martell does establish himself for a different team, we may look back at the trade that got rid of him, or letting him walk as a FA as a big mistake. But in reality, it probably will be a necessary move for Martell's sake.

by dp8039 on Mar 3, 2008 8:19 PM PST reply actions

SF of future

I neglected to mention this in my previous response. I think the Blazers will need a Bruce Bowen-Shane Battier type of veteran defender/hustle player at SF. A player like that will be able to cover the opposition's best swingman, won't demand too much on offense and ensure that everyone else stays happy. Other people (Roy, LMA, Oden, Rudy, Trout) can handle the scoring burden. We need some perimeter defense

by dp8039 on Mar 3, 2008 8:22 PM PST reply actions