Trade Analysis
Everyone seems to want to write a diary advocating trading Joel, Travis, Channing, Jarrett, Sergio, etc.
I have decided to write a diary giving all the definitive answers, to save everyone all this time and effort, and save Dave bandwidth. Tomorrow, I will cure cancer. Next week, world peace. Next year, I'll complete my thorough exploration of the universe, providing mankind with a complete guide -- in every language, of course. (I'm an expert on outer space, having so much of it dwelling between my ears.)
For purposes of discussion, I am going to make five assumptions:
- Darius Miles will not be on the roster next year. A) They would be unlikely to pursue retirement if they were not pretty sure about this. B) If his retirement does not go through, they will agree a buyout, freeing up a roster space.
- Rudy Fernandez will come over, to help us as we "Pursue Everything". (I hope they replace the "Rise With Us" slogan next year with that.)
- Wafer will not be retained.
- James Jones will not opt out of the last year of his contract. A) Injury problems and his recent drop-off reduce his marketability, and he's smart enough to know it. B) He likes this team, and seems to be well liked. C) He sees the future and wants to be part of it.
- Roy, LMA, and Oden will not be traded. Anyone else might be if the right deal comes along.
- Based on the above assumptions, we will have one free roster spot, which will be taken by our first round pick.
- We can cut Josh, but that only frees up one more spot. No other players are likely to be cut, because they all have some trade value. Josh may as well, though not much at this point.
- We have four second round picks. We might draft a Euro or two, but not likely to draft four.
- There is value in bringing Koponen over to play D League for two years. Otherwise, we risk him going to a better Euro league and getting locked in, and possibly never coming over. It would not be a bad thing to have a roster spot for him.
- If McRoberts stays, we have no roster spots available for any second round picks. If he goes, we only have one available.
- We have multiple early second round picks, which are assets which have value.
- If we use those picks (which have value) to draft players when all roster spots are locked down, we are just throwing away the picks, and KP doesn't throw away assets when he can trade them.
- Opposing GMs say, "He's not even good enough to get on the floor for you, he's not worth as much as you are saying."
- No one doubts that Sergio has lost trade value this year for this very reason.
- We have a minutes crunch at PG (Steve, Jarrett, Sergio). None will be eligible for D League next year, so none can get minutes and keep their value up that way. One, at least, will decrease in trade value next year if not traded this year.
- We have a minutes crunch at SG (Brandon, Rudy, Jarrett, Martell?). Someone's trade value will drop.
- We have a minutes crunch at forward (LMA gets 35 minutes, leaving 61 minutes between Channing, Travis, Martell, and James). Someone's minutes take a big hit, meaning a big drop in trade value. This could be alleviated if James Jones opts out, but as I said above, that is unlikely.
- Our first round pick this year may impact the minutes crunch at one of these positions. The only way he doesn't is if he is a Euro or a human victory cigar.
- The point of freeing cap space is to acquire a player who can help you.
- There is little guarantee that you will be able to acquire that player via free agency. Players may stay with current teams. Restricted free agents may not be free -- their teams may match your offer.
- If we are able to acquire the player KP wants via trade without giving up pieces we can't afford to give up, the loss of cap space is not a show-stopper. It just means that we give up that asset as part of the deal to acquire the player we want.
- To go into the season with our current guard roster plus Rudy guarantees that at least two players will lose trade value over the next year. KP won't lightly waste assets by waiting to trade someone until he can't get anything for them, and this is foreseeable.
- Anyone can see that we can use some improvement at PG, especially on defense. This means that we are likely to either trade for a PG or draft a good defensive PG. If we draft a PG, the minutes crunch is worse at PG, which again ensures a foreseeable loss in tradeable value, dictating a move this summer.
- There is no guarantee that, drafting at #13, we can acquire a PG that can help us. Therefore, we will likely trade for an established PG or trade up to acquire one of the quality PGs in the draft. Either one is possible.
- The guard that we give up in a trade will be determined, in part, by the GM who is doing a deal with us. It is easy to say, "Trade Jarrett" or "Trade Sergio". But if we are making a deal for a Devin Harris, or to trade up in the draft, a big factor in the makeup of the deal will be which of those the opposing GM wants.
- Rudy is tradeable, especially if it brings us the PG that KP wants. Many people will say, "No, no!" If Rudy is traded for Devin Harris, however, or to move up to #2 and pick Rose, they might say, "Well, OK, maybe." In such a case, Jarrett's role would be limited to back up Brandon and fill in as backup PG if one of our top two PGs is injured.
- We may not acquire another forward via trade, but KP is likely to be prepared to include a forward in any deal to move up in the draft or acquire a PG, so as to move assets before they lose value.
- The least likely forwards to be traded (outside of LMA) are Travis and Channing. Both are content (for now, anyway) to be backups. Both are able to function in two positions, which gives us some protection in case of injury.
- The most likely forward to be traded is Travis, because his trade value is probably much higher than that of any of the others, and he's the guy most GMs will want.
- Points #2 & 3 contradict each other. Most of you knew that, but I thought I'd better point it out so someone doesn't write a nasty comment about it. (Someone probably will anyway, and I bet I know who.)
- The least likely forward to be traded is Channing, because he hasn't helped his trade value this year. When opposing GMs look at our roster, they don't say, "Oh, the guy they have that we really, really need is Channing." This makes me happy, because I like Channing, and want him to stay.
- For us to get Calderon, someone has to sign him to such a high contract that Toronto can't afford him, Toronto has to match, and then trade him to us.
- Since Toronto has said they will match any offers, he is unlikely to attract the interest of those who have that much money to offer.
- We can't offer him more than the MLE. Toronto will keep him if that is all he is being paid.
- If he is so expensive that Toronto can't afford him, it is likely that KP will judge that his defensive liabilities make him not good value for money for us, given what we would have to give up to give him and the impact on our salary cap.
- We do not yet know how healthy Oden will be, or how quickly he will adjust to the NBA game.
- We do not want to be reliant on Channing Frye as our main option at center. Nor do we want to rely on him to provide significant backup minutes at center. Been there, done that.
- Therefore, any trade this summer including Joel has to get us a decent center in return, which lessens the value we can get for him at other positions.
- This could still happen, but is unlikely.
- If Oden plays 35+ minutes, and averages 20 ppg, 15 rpg, and 3 bpg, Joel could be traded by the trade deadline next year. I hope not, but could happen, for the right deal.
1 recs |
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comments
Comments
And I'd add 6a:
As in, anyone with an expiring-in-2009 contract is cap space for whomever has them at season's end next year.
That's something others would want to trade for, BECAUSE it's something we'd like to have ourselves.
But it would mean going through a whole season of roster congestion next year.
That's the dilemma.
Is even MORE cap space than the Darius/Raef/SteveFrancisBuyout expirations would give us anyway next offseason
worth going through an entire season of roster congestion, far worse than what we've had this year?
MAYBE.
by QualityPie on Mar 28, 2008 10:58 AM PDT 0 recs
Under DEFINITIVE ANSWER #1.
by hightide on Mar 28, 2008 11:35 AM PDT 0 recs
Who?
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 11:36 AM PDT
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I think I can change your mind
6'11", athletic, can dunk, and almost hit 3s. He is everything we wished McRoberts was, plus a cool accent.
by hightide on
Mar 28, 2008 12:43 PM PDT
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heh
The sig is more of a commentary on how PTB fans tend to find one player and single him out until someone else trips up and becomes the DWB (Designated Whipping Boy) than an actual vendetta against the Free-Man. I figured I might as well get on his case before the bandwagon jumpers show up.
by rockingharder on
Mar 28, 2008 4:28 PM PDT
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Okay
by hightide on
Mar 28, 2008 11:23 PM PDT
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In defense of McBob
KP and Coach Nate love them some versatility and McBob is all of that.
by lee3022 on
Mar 31, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
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I like this idea...
We have been taking baby steps inPTB d3evelopement this year. Working on the fundimentals. Maybe, just maybe McBob has been groomed for the "Point Forward" position.
Big Line Up, Small Ball, Point Forward, Fast Breakin' our minds could be blown next year.

"The Team with Caricature!"
by Lizzy Lowblow on
Mar 31, 2008 5:39 PM PDT
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Also
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EcyfDBbM2xE&feature=related
(I'm thinking Rudy just might be our PG of the future)
by hightide on
Mar 28, 2008 12:48 PM PDT
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I read this somewhere
Rudy + Blazers pick (13th) + filler (possibly Sergio ) for a top 5 pick? preferably high enough to get a rose or have even more flexibility to get a vet, premier, or to trade down again for multiple picks
by Blazerhopeful on Mar 28, 2008 11:42 AM PDT 0 recs
Could happen
If KP and Nate have dreams about Rose every night, they might be ready to give up Rudy plus our #13 to get Rose.
Of course, if the balls bounce our way and we get even as high as #3, I think we'll get Rose, even if it means packaging Travis and our #3 to move up to #1.
KP might target Mayo instead, and Rudy might be traded to accomplish that as well.
I don't think Rudy will be traded, and I hope not, but it is not impossible by any means.
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 12:18 PM PDT
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I agree with everything ...
I'd further add to the Calderon premise that we probably don't have the players they'd want in return for a sign-and-trade scenario. Would they want Travis? (No, they have an improving Jamario Moon.) Would they want Jack? (No, they like players who can shoot.) Would they want Martell? (No, they just paid Kapono and still have Parker.)
IF we were to acquire Calderon, I think it would cost us some or all of the following players: Frye (PF who can shoot, nice contract), Jones (SF who can shoot, nice contract), Rudy (European/Spanish player who can shoot, nice contract), Blake (decent backup PG who can shoot, nice contract). Most of these players would be backups on their roster. Will they trade Calderon for backups? I doubt it.
The ONE trade I could see working would be a Parker and re-signed Calderon for Blake, the rights to Rudy, LaFrentz's expiring contract, and draft picks. But they are still giving up too much for too little in return.
by bfan on Mar 28, 2008 12:17 PM PDT 0 recs
Ah, and now we get to the real point
Jorga is head of my Air Force, but Army, Navy, Marines, Intelligence Branch, Special Forces, Political Fix Dept, and Re-education Unit are still available. Is there a role you prefer?
The former candidate for Navy has incurred my displeasure. Someone else is now posting under his alias.
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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Re-education sounds interesting.
by bfan on
Mar 28, 2008 1:05 PM PDT
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Please
Just contemplate the implications of my comment about the former Navy candidate. Let's leave it at that.
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
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Some Good Thoughts Jscot
If we could trade Rudy (who most consider a top 5 pick in this year's draft, our own lottery pick which is probably around 13th, (either Sergio or Jack), and 1 or 2 of our better second round picks.....
If we could do that to move up and get Rose for our PG of the future, I think that would be fantastic. Quite frankly, that makes the most sense to me. It becomes a question of, "Are we more concerned about our starting point guard or our backup shooting guard?"
Doing this trade would also put players in the positions where I believe they play the best.
Frye would become the backup 4.
Webster could get more minutes at the 2.
Outlaw will get more minutes at the 3. (This is trusting that he will stay in Portland to improve his strength, speed, and technique over the summer, as he said he would.)
Starters:
Oden
Aldridge
Jones (I'd rather have him start with this group)
Roy
Rose
2nd Unit:
Przybilla
Frye
Outlaw
Webster
Blake
3rd Unit:
Who knows and who cares. We don't want to play more than 10 deep anyways. These should be emergency or blowout minute guys.
Either Sergio or Jack
McRoberts-if he isn't gone
Miles-if he is still here
LaFrentz
The Wafer
Perhaps Koponen or Freeland if Miles is gone.
by silkybrown on Mar 28, 2008 1:19 PM PDT 0 recs
We're asset-rich
The specific trade you proposed does both of those things. A 3 (or 4) for 1 trade. It gives up a lot of quality, but gains quality where we need it most.
We might be giving up more than we get, as far as talent goes, I think we would be. But what we get would benefit us more than what we give up, >I think<. I'm afraid of trading Rudy, because of what he might become. But what we would gain in that trade....
I would pull the trigger on that trade, and probably have nightmares over it, especially if Brandon gets hurt. But I would do it.
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 1:27 PM PDT
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If Brandon gets hurt later, I meant
by jscot on
Mar 28, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
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Guess What?
Ha, I kill me. You were missing some snarkiness.
Anyhow, back on topic. I listened to a Quick chat not to long ago and he pretty much said Sergio is safe for another year, to help Rudy transition. Then he said something in regards to Sergio ONLY having a year to prove he deserves a long term place on this team.
With that in mind, I would venture a guess that any trade of Rudy would include Sergio because of his value as chaperon. If no Rudy, then we don't need no chaperon.
My gut tells me that KP would want to keep Rudy because of his ability to attack the basket, and if he's successful in the NBA, it will make KP look even more talented in the eyes of everyone who cares. I imagine if Rudy is everything he's supposed to be, then KP wants Rudy him on the Blazers roster during the championship runs.
by tominhawaii on Mar 28, 2008 2:13 PM PDT 0 recs
Oh Snap
by tominhawaii on
Mar 28, 2008 8:23 PM PDT
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Are you Stoopid too?
I'm waiting for the next update.
Do you have any idea what we are doin' here?
What was the question?
What should I do?

"The Team with Caricature!"
by Lizzy Lowblow on
Mar 28, 2008 9:02 PM PDT
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I love you too
by tominhawaii on
Mar 29, 2008 6:00 PM PDT
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This diary is the work...
I do not want to even try to understand whatever this diary is about. I think people are paid good money to figure this stuff out (whatever it is).
This is not my idea of a fun thing to do. I have trouble tying to deal with the first assumption and no reason what so ever to try and pile five more on top of that.
Maybe I'm just stoopid. Maybe I'm not stoopid.
Stoopid is, as stoopid knows! I do not want to be this stoopid or part of your stoopid minions in your obviously stoopid quest to "RULE THE WORLD".

"The Team with Caricature!"
by Lizzy Lowblow on Mar 28, 2008 6:33 PM PDT 0 recs
Your not gettin' any snark remark...
I know there are only five assumptions (of which I am unable to get beyound the first of).
Not six!
There, I feel less stoopid already but be warned. I may not be!

"The Team with Caricature!"
by Lizzy Lowblow on
Mar 28, 2008 6:37 PM PDT
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That's a LIE
I'm a gracious and kind despot, who will only reluctantly take rulership of the world. I don't want it for myself, but will do it because the world NEEDS someone like me, and I'm the only one in the whole world who is as brilliant, egotistical, witty, egotistical, kind, egotistical, gracious, egotistical, handsome, egotistical, and charming as I am.
Bfan, here's another one for you.
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 12:49 AM PDT
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Even Jesus is called a despot.
So, the idea of a kind and gracious δεσποτης is not at all new. Rare, indeed, but not new.
by T Darkstar on
Mar 29, 2008 9:20 AM PDT
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Urgh
Let's just say that He truly is a kind and gracious Despot, and that my pretended despotism humorously claims to be kind and gracious but is (again humorously) of a rather different sort.
note to self: be careful, there's a Koine Greek aware participant wandering around on this site.
moving on rapidly....
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 10:21 AM PDT
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My apologies.
When one gets too close to a subject matter, one can lose the sense of reverence that may be appropriate to it. Take that fact and add it to a smart-aleck like me, and it is a recipe for disaster.
Speaking of disaster, do you have anyone to be your financial secretary yet?
by T Darkstar on
Mar 29, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
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"Recipe for Disaster"
by 92wastheyear on
Mar 29, 2008 12:18 PM PDT
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I don't know
by tominhawaii on
Mar 29, 2008 5:50 PM PDT
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Yikes
by tominhawaii on
Mar 29, 2008 5:54 PM PDT
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Christian college
Bfan, over here!
by jscot on
Mar 30, 2008 12:04 AM PDT
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Nah
by tominhawaii on
Mar 30, 2008 12:29 PM PDT
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It's ok
Financial Secretary: an interesting thought. I hadn't actually considered trusting anyone else with THAT responsibility.
Power of life and death over recalcitrants? Sure, who cares? But power of the purse? Hmmm....
by jscot on
Mar 30, 2008 12:02 AM PDT
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BTW
Is that correct? (Yes, folks, we've now drifted into a lesson on New Testament Koine Greek. Is this a great basketball site, or what?)
When I rule the world, the Blazers' D League team will win the Eastern Conference.
by jscot on
Mar 30, 2008 12:25 AM PDT
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You are quite correct.
If I can drift further into New Testament Greek, (warning: off-topic theology ahead!) slavery was such a part of Greco-Roman society, that it affected even the language. When Paul says things like "ὑφ' ἁμαρτίαν" (lit. under sin) or sometimes υπο in general, it is a reference to whom the despot is, whom we are "under." Theologically speaking, the cruel despot is mistress Sin, and the kind despot is mistress Grace.
For more information on this subject than you would ever care to know, Dr. John G. Nordling's Commentary on Philemon covers this ad nauseum.
Now back to your regularly scheduled basketball discussion.
by T Darkstar on
Mar 30, 2008 9:59 AM PDT
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If you are going to quote a Bible verse
by lee3022 on
Mar 31, 2008 1:47 PM PDT
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It's translated "Master"
Which just goes to show that those guys who translated the NASB were pretty smart. It would be true even if I didn't say so.
by jscot on
Mar 31, 2008 11:34 PM PDT
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Word
...jscot is deperate. As he continues to try to rule "The World", the world will roll away from him. In desperation, jscot will chase after the ever elusive orb. It will gather speed until it rolls, into the awaiting reptile, which will once again. Rule the Earth unknowing that he is, KING.

"The Team with Caricature!"
by Lizzy Lowblow on
Apr 1, 2008 12:00 AM PDT
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Ha!
WORLD, the choice is before you! Lizzy has declared it, and it is so!
Follow me, or be ruled by a reptile!
by jscot on
Apr 1, 2008 4:04 AM PDT
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I'm tempted to slam The Scot...
But, alas, he's pretty much on target throughout.
I complement him on thinking outside the box re: Rudy. TRADING him now makes immense sense to me... I never would have thought of that... He'll never have more value than as a newly signed "Next Big Thing" and "Best Player in Europe" that has never played an NBA minute...
The problem is this: I wouldn't draft a Point Guard of the Future (tm) on a bet. Trade for a veteran only!!! So how do you make that work?
Toronto is being piggy. They've got 2. Calderon is the guy I want. The key to the mystery: give up Rudy to get the newly signed Calderon.
We have this Roy fellow playing the 2 already, see. And a couple guys at the 3 who have upside and BIG potential upside, respectively. What are you gonna do with Rudy, anyway??? Send him to D league???
Anyway, Scot, I am now bitterly unhappy having had to agree with you twice in a single month.
t
by timbo on Mar 28, 2008 8:32 PM PDT 0 recs
I agree
by Dheepan on
Mar 28, 2008 8:53 PM PDT
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Dear Timbo
We don't pay dollars for whisky, we pay pounds.
Rudy could have more value than he has now, because there is that uncertainty around him, but he would really have to earn that value, wouldn't he? I don't want to see him get traded, because I think he'll be FUN to watch. But it might be the best move as far as winning games.
NO ONE is surprised that I thought of something you wouldn't have, of course. It's ok, don't let it bother you too much. As it keeps happening, you'll get used to it.
PG: Calderon's D is pretty shaky. Young centers get in foul trouble when opposing PGs run riot in the lane. I would rather have a rookie who's a lock-down defender, even if he's relatively ineffective offensively for 2-3 years, than Calderon.
Not that I wouldn't be happy with Calderon, and that he wouldn't be a very good pickup. But he's not my first choice.
Please don't be unhappy about agreeing with me. By the time bfan has re-educated you, that will be your constant condition -- and you will have learned to rejoice over it.
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 12:34 AM PDT
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Hey Ben --
OK, I admit part of it is laziness -- I love it when someone else takes all of my fuzzy thoughts and lays them out in such a nice organized fashion.
One thought though: In Definitive Answer 8, there's no mention of Martell. I think the same logic you used in #7 applies, i.e. "The forward that we give up in a trade will be determined, in part, by the GM who is doing a deal with us." If KP has his sights set on someone, add Martell to the list of guys who may go. (Personally, I want them all to stay, but I'm open, depending on who we get back.)
by Corvid on Mar 28, 2008 10:18 PM PDT 0 recs
Martell
Of course, it depends on the opposing GM's team, and where they are weak or thin.
Hightide set the bar high (nice visual picture there) for diary of the week with his "KP's Risk Assessment". You better check that one before nominating any others. But thanks for the kudos.
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 12:40 AM PDT
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Marty v. Trouty
By the way, could you put dealing with global warming on your to-do list?
by Corvid on
Mar 29, 2008 12:16 PM PDT
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Could you consider
by lee3022 on
Mar 31, 2008 1:52 PM PDT
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Fair point
If you trade for Travis, and he fits your team, you know what you are going to get. You might get more, but you know you are getting something good. I'm not sure you know that with Martell.
I suspect Martell has been starting ahead of Travis not because Nate thinks he is better, but because A) we're developing for the future, and they still hope Martell is the future B) Travis is happy, in fact prefers, coming off the bench and C) we needed Travis to play a lot of PF this year.
by jscot on
Mar 31, 2008 11:39 PM PDT
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P.G. TRADE
by billyjoejack on Mar 28, 2008 10:46 PM PDT 0 recs
There is alot of talk
Point is that it matters which teams pick before us and the order. We just have to wait for the Lottery.
by VinnyB on Mar 29, 2008 5:54 AM PDT 0 recs
You are correct on this point, of course
If Memphis gets the #2 (and NY isn't #1), they kind of have to take Rose, if they want to stay in Memphis. They will trade Conley, and KP will be at the front of the line, saying, "Gimme, Gimme."
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 6:38 AM PDT
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Not a Given
by WarEaglePDX on
Mar 29, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
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After watching Rose and Memphis
by lee3022 on
Mar 31, 2008 1:58 PM PDT
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I still don't get this fascination
by VinnyB on Mar 29, 2008 6:02 AM PDT 0 recs
Well...
I think part of it is that we KNOW Paul and Williams won't be let go, because they are indispensable to their teams. Calderon is not indispensable to Toronto (whatever they are saying now), so people think he might be obtainable.
Also, the fact that he's a backup isn't really relevant, that just proves that they've got two outstanding PGs. He would be a significant upgrade for us. Not as good as Harris, I agree. But I am yet to be persuaded that we can get Harris, he may be untouchable. NJ is probably about as ready to give him up as we are ready to give up LMA.
The only real knock on Calderon is his D. To me, that's a big knock. To other people, that doesn't seem to be as important. But if we couldn't get Harris, would you be glad to get Calderon? I would, as long as it doesn't cost too much.
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 6:34 AM PDT
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Jscot "The Great"
Jscot The Great follow threads
This season with no dreads,
Between criticism and praises
With no doubt with no pain,
Making work his bright brain.
Comes to BE a hard black rain
Time stops and rains again,
What a Diary, What a comment!
Jscot posting like a night train
That in Portland can´t detain.
He, The Great, claims the ball
Who resists just that call?
Take the mouse, touch the type,
Throws ideas, stealth planes
Flying over reach Spain.
He is Jscot, the real dread,
Like his shadow fear spread,
Always right and he´s fair.
Under the Sun, under the rain,
I want to see him posts again.
by amlmart1 on
Mar 29, 2008 9:52 AM PDT
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HA!
by jscot on
Mar 29, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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What Gets Me
by tominhawaii on
Mar 29, 2008 5:59 PM PDT
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US population don“t take the time
by amlmart1 on
Mar 29, 2008 10:22 PM PDT
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