Irritable Diary: Can We Lift Papal Inallibility from KP, Please?

by Fizbin on Mar 22, 2008 7:33 AM PDT

I like KP. I love KP. I've posted before how intersted I am in his secret algorithm of assessing talent. He's the reason why I love the Blazers.

But look, can we all agree--please--to stop with the following comments on every diary that's trying to raise discussion:

"Trust in KP."
KP has a plan and he knows what he's doing.
KP knows more than you do.
Just wait X-yrs and see what KP does.
KP knows who to draft and who to play for.
Etc.

I'm just sick of that. I'm sick of reading diaries and having to swim through unhelpful stuff like that.

Look, it's probably all true. It's at least mostly all true. But we're here to talk about the game and the team. We're here to discuss each other's opinions. Having to read "just trust KP" over and over again is not only really, really boring but it's also really, really unhelpful. You're just writing noise.

And on the flip side, KP is probably not infallible. As Exhibit A: I give you George Lucas.

Star Wars idolaters to this day defend the atrocities of the Star Wars "prequels" and the "genius" of George Lucas. Do you really want to turn into someone like: a George Lucas defender? If KP messes up as badly as George Lucas, are you going to your grave defending his decisions?

There's a great quote from a guy when someone was getting after him for changing his mind. He responded: "When the facts change, then I change my opinion. What is it that you do, sir?"

We're here to discuss facts and adjust our opinions... not listen to the KP Heavenly Choir.

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Comments

I agree to a point

However there are times when some poster is going off the deep end about this or that and calling out KP when the appropriate response is to say:"Trust in KP...he knows more than you do". The Lucas analogy is great, but....KP has only completed episode 1 (Roy and Aldridge) and we have all seen the trailer for episode 2, but haven't seen the movie yet(Oden). He hasn't even come close to making the clunker that is episode 1 (ugggh). As far as the quote goes(it was great BYW), the facts haven't changed yet....Trust in KP!!!

by 92wastheyear on Mar 22, 2008 8:26 AM PDT reply actions

KP hasn't screwed up yet

George Lucas has.

I think think the comments are mostly along the lines of he DOES no more, so give a little slack if we don't understand.

Team OK just has to say that we'll take the lead with no delay. We have the players to keep the pace and in the end we'll win the race.

by ratbastird on Mar 22, 2008 8:39 AM PDT reply actions

corrections

minus one think and one no, and add one Know

Team OK just has to say that we'll take the lead with no delay. We have the players to keep the pace and in the end we'll win the race.

by ratbastird on Mar 22, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Chuckle.

by annthefan on Mar 22, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

This should win

the Diary of the week award.

by TwoDeep on Mar 22, 2008 8:46 AM PDT reply actions

I would disagree with that

Fizbin has a point, but it's also a lot of yapping (couldn't resist)

Perfect reason was given by first poster here. People go off the deep to a point that's stupid. Expecting lamarcus to be a god in his second season is silly, and yet people expect it. When a person is set in their ways and refuse to listen to rational thought, then "just trust in kp, he hasn't messed up yet and seems to know what he's doing" seems to be a pretty rational response.

I have no problem with people calling out mistakes, it's a matter of how it's done. Do we open up opportunities for discussion, or are we just going to slam the team and hate on it.

I'm all about discussion and debate, I'm NOT about negativity, irrationality, and impatience.

We all knew this team would take time to develop and it's shown some amazing things. The players still have to get better, but the point is, out of the rookie class... which picks would you want the most? I'd want Aldridge and Roy over the others. There are some who just want to tear that down. Maybe aldridge and roy won't be the greatest players ever, but they have shown, still, that they were the best picks at the time, and really... we shouldn't talk about that too much until another three years have past because ROOKIES TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP!!!

I'm so tired of the negativity that I see. I'm more tired of it than Fizbin is of kp love (and i love how they phrased it). I know it's just a loud minority. I know that sometimes it's the passion and drunken post of the moment. I just hate reading things that tear our team down when we KNOW they're going to make mistakes and NEXT year we'll be making mistakes. The focus has always been on the year after that and we need to keep that forward and long term thinking.

I love this team, but sometimes there are posts where I wonder if the people are really fans. They'd rather sacrifice the long term for something short term.

I'm in love with KP because he doesn't listen to that and he sticks by his vision. That's why I throw out the "he knows more than us". He's being patient and letting things develop like he SHOULD. I can explain that and i have explained that, so it just goes on deaf hears... "he knows more than us" is much less exhausting to write when I'm repeating myself.

Team OK just has to say that we'll take the lead with no delay. We have the players to keep the pace and in the end we'll win the race.

by ratbastird on Mar 22, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions

last year's draft

in the 2nd round wasn't that great. maybe kopponen will turn out to be a huge surprise but that that jury is certainly out, and where josh mcroberts might fit in remains a mystery. taurean green has moved on.

meanwhile kp could have drafted aaron gray and/or carl landry.

nobody's perfect.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 22, 2008 8:58 AM PDT reply actions

ummm

you're talking the freaking second round.

Also, for all we know our second round picks are AWESOME, but they need time to play to show that. Talk to me in five years as to who picked right or wrong. Even with Roy and Aldridge it's too early to really tell, although two years of good play and nice improvement by aldridge are pretty good indications... still too early.

Team OK just has to say that we'll take the lead with no delay. We have the players to keep the pace and in the end we'll win the race.

by ratbastird on Mar 22, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions

What's Inallibility?

He's not infallible. No reasonable person thinks he is. He'll make mistakes.

I do think we need to recognize he knows more than any of us.

He's smarter about basketball than at least 99% of us. (Perhaps Popovich is a member, so I'll leave a little wiggle room.)
He's got information about potential draftees and current NBA players that none of us have.
He's got information about Blazer players that only he and Nate have.
He's got information about Paul Allen's willingness to spend, and where the limits are, that none of us have.

Building a team is an art as well as a science. You can't just plug the numbers in and say, "Ok, we need this player," and go get that player. If you need that player, somebody else has him and doesn't want to give him up. You can't have the best player at every position, so you have to figure out where it is ok to have second best, and where you can survive with third best.

What does that mean? It means that in many cases, there is not one right answer, with all the other answers being wrong. In most cases, there are a variety of answers that would work, some better than others. And you have to find the right mix that gives you the best total outcome.

To do that, you have to work to a plan. KP has basically told us his plan, but he can't give us the details because then other GMs will block him. We watch, we see what we've got, and we can figure out a lot of what he's trying to accomplish. It is obvious that KP DOES have a plan, and he's doing a pretty decent job getting there.

If you suggest a trade or draft, how do you know it fits the plan? All you can say is that it looks like it fits the plan. But to say, "What is wrong with KP that he's not doing this?" is silly. He's following a plan that's working pretty well, and there's probably nothing wrong with him. If someone proposes a killer trade for the Blazers that fits his plan well, and we all know it, and he doesn't do it, there are two possible reasons -- either the trade really didn't fit his plan after all, or the other team wouldn't do it.

I'm frequently right, but always certain

by jscot on Mar 22, 2008 9:13 AM PDT reply actions

but

we can still speculate, or you say no? If we dont know what KP is doing, then we are even more corious to speculate, and if we have this site then its not only for info, its for fun too. All of NBA GMs they know more than the fans, and they have plans but sometimes the different GM's plans cross each other, and their plan does not bring the final results, and thats why we have speculate.

by RipCity on Mar 23, 2008 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course we can speculate

I do it all the time.

But perhaps we ought to do so with a large measure of humility.

It's like people who don't get any of the classified National Security reports asserting that they know exactly what the President or Prime Minister should have done. We think we know, but we would do well to be honest enough to acknowledge that we aren't omniscient.

That's why it's so important to elect people of integrity, because they have to deal with all the facts, and probably can't tell us a lot of the important facts. (This is a completely non-partisan political point.)

If we only see part of the picture, we can still speculate, and we can see that what is happening is or isn't working, but rarely do we know the whole story. That doesn't make criticism and speculation inappropriate -- but it should temper our criticism.

That is my infallible analysis, from a non-Catholic perspective.

I'm frequently right, but always certain

by jscot on Mar 23, 2008 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions

yeah but

politicaly speaking, all people dont elect the same person, they all have different opinions on which guy is better. And there has been alot when people elect a wrong representatives. We dont elect GMs. And all GMs, they try to get a title, like Dallas, Phoenix, and if they wont get it(one of them for sure wont) then there is a mistake in what a GM did, or how he sees things. I think that there is alot of fans that are smarter then GMs(NY Thomas).

by RipCity on Mar 23, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions

That's a big part of the problem

and why jscot raises the concept of humility.

The fact you think that there are a lot of fans who are smarter than the GM's of most sports teams is, when you stop to think about it, either a sign of arrogance or stupidity. (Rip, I'm not calling you stupid or arrogant here. I'm referring to the act.)

I'm willing to bet that most fans don't even know half of what a GM's job responsibilities are, let alone are capable of fulfillimg them. I'm suppossedly a fairly smart guy and probably experienced a wider range of jobs and careers than average. I even managed to fill an enginering position at a nuclear power plant, though my degree was in history. Could I do Pritchard's job? Maybe. I'd need a lot of help. Could I do as well as him? Probably not. For one thing, I'm not sure I could work as hard as he does. I also have zero experience dealing with agents. Whatever you might think of them, sports agents are among some of the smartest, sharpest people around.

In otherwords, even though I have considerable experience stepping into new jobs where I have little background and doing well, I don't for a moment think I could step into Pritchard's position and do as well as he's done. I'd be curious as to what reasons someone else thinks they could.

by timg56 on Mar 24, 2008 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions

Ok

I would not say the NY GM is smart. I would not say that Grizlies GM is smart. And Chicagos GM is not smart. Fans were smarter when they were happy that Thomas took Z_Bo

by RipCity on Mar 24, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah

what about taking Marteel over Chris Paul?

by RipCity on Mar 24, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I think that your limiting yourself

I think anybody can do the job of KP. I work for a company for 3 years, but I do a better job than most that work there from 10 to 20 years, I dont know why. But I noticed that there are people that that just started and I could tell that this guy can be better than those that work there for 5 years. I think KP is good, but he can become stuborn, and become blind. Look at NY GM he is just stuborn and the point is; he is going to destroy his organization.

by RipCity on Mar 24, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions

A couple points where I differ.

The fact there are some GM's who are not as good as others is not proof that even a small percentage of fans are more than capable of stepping into an NBA GM position and doing well.
It's easy to read the opinions of sports writers and then, with the help of hindsight, say this GM or that GM sucks at his job. What is the basis of you saying Chris Wallace isn't very smart? Because he traded Gasol? It's pretty obvious he was asked to dump salary. That's what he did. The fact that some sportswriter can cull up a half dozen alternative deals that look better on paper does not mean those deals where available.
Using the selection of Martell Webster when Portland could have kept their pick and taken Paul as proof that Pritchard isn't any smarter than you or those other fans who think Paul is the better choice is foolish on several levels. At the most basic level, I'm fairly sure it wasn't Pritchard's decision. Secondly, it is easy to forget that Portland had a young PG that it thought was it's PG of the future. I'm sure you've forgotten it by now, but Telfair actually played fairly well at the end of the previous season. (Personally, I was for keeping the selection and taking Deron Williams at the time, as I was never a Telfair fan. But that, by itself, is not proof that I'd make a better GM than Pritchard or even John Nash.)

by timg56 on Mar 25, 2008 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Hey dude

I dont know where you got that I was talking about, Memphis. I was saying that GM's can get stuborn and do stupid choices like NY GM Thomas. I know that KP was not the one that selected Martell. But If I was a good GM, I would not say Z-Bo is our future, that Telfair is our future.

by RipCity on Mar 25, 2008 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions

It was this line of your's above ...

" ...I would not say that Grizlies GM is smart." that I was referring to.

I'll agree with you that it was pretty apparent to me as well that Randolph, Miles and Telfair were not the sort of foundation I'd ever want to construct a team around. Where I differ is in thinking that having my opinion proven essentially correct is not the same as proving I'd be a better GM.

Maybe I could do a better job than some GM's. But I wouldn't bet on it. What do I know about working for a difficult owner? What do I know about dealing with agents? What experience do I have working under a microscope, with even the most mundane decision being open to second guessing. How often have I had to calmly answer stupid questions from reporters. Particularly when they are the same stupid, cliche type questions reporters have been asking since the invention of the pencil?

The answer to all of the above is never. (Although I do get asked a lot of the same stupid questions over and over again in my job. So maybe I could handle that part. Nah. I'd end up telling them to piss off. I have trouble hiding my disdain for stupid questions and stupid people. That automatically disqualifies me from dealing with the press.)

by timg56 on Mar 27, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions

I understand...

...what you are saying, and I agree. When discussing an opinion I generally dislike a blanket unfounded opinion used as a "statement".

But I would try and curb some of your angst when it comes to discussions of KP. This is why. For most fans when discussing the moves of a GM or the potential moves of a GM, for most of us, we have no real insight or connection to the behind the scenes mechanics. We HAVE to evaluate KP by what we have seen him do, and almost only what we have seen him do.

He can give interviews, appear in Quick Chats, and we as individuals can make our own decisions about whether we like what he is saying or agree with the philosophy he professes but ultimately we won't be sitting at the table when the specific decisions are made. That leaves most fans in a position where we are forced to simply "trust". So that is why you get the "trust KP" type of comments.

It's a good sign that so many fans are comfortable enough with KP that "Trust KP" is the common response. Look at The Knicks, there are many other things that fans could be saying. Trust is good.

If you hunger for real debate that is probably valid. But just like a discussion about George Lucas, or KP and The Blazers you will always meet fans with various degrees of devotion to the cause. The best thing to do I have found to avoid vague blanket responses, is to try to present as specific as possible questions. In other words if you are tired of "Trust KP", and the other string of cliche answers, try keeping your question about KP, or your statement about management as specific as possible. There's a difference between how many people will respond to "What do you think we should do in the draft?" as opposed to "Do you think we should draft (insert name here)? One question is likely to get the "trust KP" answer, the other will not.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Mar 22, 2008 11:02 AM PDT reply actions

The conversation

KP: I'm thinking about rebuilding around a moderately athletic two guard with limited potential and a soft, jump shooting power forward? Is that okay?
PAllen: Sure.
KP: I want to trade our best player for the right to buy out some loser for $30M of your cash.
PAllen: Okay.
KP: Oh, and how about $3M cash for some euro who might not come over?
PAllen: No problem.
KP: You should know that this whole plan requires us to win the lottery or we'll be the 5th seed in the West for the next 10 years until we rebuild again.
PAllen: I understand. Good luck.
KP: One more thing. If this does work, we're going to have to max like 4 players and play luxury tax for a decade...
PAllen: Yeah, whatever

Pritch is a smart guy, but you have to admit he has a pretty charmed work situation...

by Engineering Problem on Mar 22, 2008 11:18 AM PDT reply actions

Wow

Impressive negativity.

Moderately athletic two guard with limited potential and a soft power forward??

Didn't that two guard play in the all-star game? I guess he has reached his ceiling.

Hasn't Lamarcus improved over the course of the year in the softness category? Even if he hasn't, have you been watching his offensive game grow like crazy in the second half of the season? Doesn't that excite you a little bit?

And they had already won the lottery when the plans to trade Zach went into high gear.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Wow

I could have sworn he was talking about Jarrett Jack and Channing Frye. My bad....te he

I'm hip, I'm slick, and all the women want my phone number!

by silkybrown on Mar 22, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Nice call!

I shouldn't have assumed he was speaking of LMA and Roy.

My favorite thing about the post is that it implies that everything just fell into Pritchard's lap. Granted, no one expected to get Oden but the tide was turning with Roy and LMA the year before and you can't fault the guy for winning the lottery.

I would say he has made some tough choices (picking Outlaw over Udoka and trading Zach for potential in Frye, Jones, and Rudy) to stick to a plan that puts the Blazers in a position to make some moves (or not if players pan out) over the next year and a half and then make a push to contend.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Best of five

We should also keep in mind that there are maybe five GM posts in the league that:

Allow the GM to make truly independent decisions
Have deep pockets to work with
Have a fan base that is forgiving of losing seasons
Aren't completely hamstrung by preexisting cap concerns

I wouldn't trade Pritch for any of his contemporaries, but we do have to realize that this particular job is tailor made to facilitate success.

by Engineering Problem on Mar 22, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I see your point

But Paul has, excepting a couple of years there, always had resources and wanted to spend them on building a championship team. KP's plan looks pretty good compared to what we have seen in the past. Hopefully it isn't all smoke and mirrors but I guess we will find that out in the next five years.

I would have to agree with you that our previous GM/President (Nash/Paterson) were hamstrung with Darius and Zach. Those were bad decisions that seemed to be straight from Paul.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions

The new NBA

The genius of KP is that he doesn't try to make losers into winners. If a guy has a bad attitude or doesn't play team ball, he's out. Any chance KP would've given Rasheed six years to clean it up? He also understands that we're not playing in a fantasy league. Somehow, I doubt Pritch is angling to get a "star" PG and a "star" SF. He's looking at San Antonio, Houston, and Detroit and salivating over guys like Battier and Tayshaun Prince. He's going to make Portland a place of respite to players tired of me-first NBA culture.

I'll take this approach over the L*kers "all star team". It's going to be a fun ride.

by Engineering Problem on Mar 22, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Really? Like a John Nash kind of success?

I realize Nash and Peterson were brought in to clean up the mess, but really, it is Pritchard that has the vision, the slick sales pitch, and an approachability.

I would say that if the job is "tailor-made for success", it is Pritchard that has redefined the job description.

Great, I just played right into Fizbin's hands...

by Blazerholic on Mar 23, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Misunderstood

I think you've misunderstood my sarcasm here. Prior to the 2006 draft, Roy was widely considered to be a "safe" pick with the upside of a very good role player. Aldridge was down to #8 in some mock drafts due to fears of him being soft. "Exciting" players with great "upside" were available in Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, and Rudy Gay. Obviously, Roy and LMA turned out to be the top two players to come out that year. In retrospect, though, having the owner of a team needing "stars" agree to draft two relatively unexciting (at the time) players was impressive and to a degree, bold.

Owners typically don't like large buyouts. Paul Allen writing a massing check to make our leading scorer and rebounder "go away" is pretty unusual.

KP is a great GM, one of the best in the business, but we should acknowledge that some of his success is due to the owner's willingness to "play along".

by Engineering Problem on Mar 22, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions

I did misunderstand the Sarcasm

Dang it! I didn't think you were one of the negative guys but I went with it.

I would agree that Allen has gotten more involved again and that is exciting to see. I was pretty hacked off when the whole "broken financial model" thing was going on.

I would say Paul has redeemed himself since then.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions

No problem

I'm as stoked about this team as I've been about anything in my 34 years of watching sports. Just don't want to jinx it by being too positive, ya know? :)

by Engineering Problem on Mar 22, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Some would argue

that Rudy Gay is at the top of that year's draft right now. I wouldn't put him above Roy neccesarily, but he's for sure above Aldridge.

by DrivetheLane on Mar 22, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Good point

Good point, but I wouldn't be surprised to see GMs still taking LMA over Gay. Skilled, hard working big guys are very hard to come by. Gay's pretty good, but high scoring wing players who aren't natural leaders can do as much harm to a franchise as good.

It'll be interesting to follow their respective careers.

by Engineering Problem on Mar 23, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions

I wouldn't trade Aldridge for Gay.

by timg56 on Mar 24, 2008 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions

If I remember right, PA watched the workouts

or videos of the workouts and was excited about the players.

It probably wasn't that hard of sell. PA is more of a fan than probably any other owner except Cuban.

by Blazerholic on Mar 23, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for admitting you are irritable

I am excited to see what moves we will make this summer, if any. I haven't always felt that way about Blazer's management. I remember feeling a bit queasy with Whitsitt at the wheel and always wondering if Nash and Patterson knew what they were doing. It is a nice change.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 12:19 PM PDT reply actions

so true

KP may not be the Pope, but let's not forget that he is considered to be one of the best young GMs in the league by most of the national media and other GMs. It sure is comforting to know that at the top we have all the pieces in place, so there's less to fret about with the details like players and whatnot. Look at the Knicks, Bucks or Wolves as counterexamples.
One thing I'll also give KP -- he has an entertaining "style" of building this team: aggressively scouting and targeting players and being incredibly creative in how he acquires them. He has the "Trader Bob" flair but with a much better eye for talent and character and how that fits into building a successful, fun-to-follow team. For example, it wasn't just that he got Roy and Aldridge in that draft, it was HOW he did it -- packaging picks, making like eight million trades, everything. Or the way he got James Jones in the Randolph deal. I know that this summer we'll be treated to some other creative maneuvering that will strengthen the team next year.
Oh yeah and did you know that Greg Oden is going to be playing for us next year, too?

by kickbrass on Mar 22, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I trust KP to solve the problem

of saying we trust him too much.

Oden '08 Worth the Wait

by JTDuck22 on Mar 22, 2008 12:42 PM PDT reply actions

Nice!

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions

I possess "inallibility"

I can't speak for KP. But I've never sat thru a single Ali McGraw movie. For that matter, I never watched a moment of Ally McBeal.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Mar 22, 2008 1:21 PM PDT reply actions

But...

I bet you have seen an Ali fight so don't be so quick to prop yourself up there HU09.

by tssbro on Mar 22, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Hmmm...

Maybe that doesn't count because I'm old enough to remember him as Cassius Clay. OK, that's weak--I admit it.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Mar 22, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Good Grief...

I didn't see the typo until just now.

Boy does that take the wind out of one's sails.

by Fizbin on Mar 22, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, your not the pope.

by annthefan on Mar 22, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Our at least you don't think he is.

by timg56 on Mar 24, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Don't sweat it.

We've all made plenty of typos. That was just a particularly amusing one. It got me to thinking about a long-ago housemate of mine.
Poor guy: he was a Shakespeare buff who took an usher job at a neighborhood movie theater. He had that gig for over a year, and the whole time they ran one film: "Love Story," starring Ali McGraw & Ryan O'Neal. I swear, I feared for this guy's sanity. He'd come home shaking his head, staring at the floor, and uttering one word over & over again: "Bad!"

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Mar 22, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions

you're

by annthefan on Mar 22, 2008 4:19 PM PDT reply actions

Don't be silly

KP isn't infallible, honestly the man looks like he buys his suits from TJ Max. I'm only half kidding.

But I would die laughing if KP was put on 'What Not to Wear' by Paul Allen.

Or Millionaire Match Maker. Yum.

by Dheepan on Mar 22, 2008 4:26 PM PDT reply actions

Papal infallibility not absolute

Even popes' edicts and decrees get overturned. Recently the current pope decreed that the Church's teaching on Purgatory was wrong. That teaching had been orthodoxy since IT was decreed by an earlier Pope several centuries ago.

That said, GMs of professional sports teams are widely believed to be more more fallible than popes.

Nature bats last.

by fisheyes on Mar 23, 2008 10:03 AM PDT reply actions