Simmons on the Sonics
Bill Simmons has a nice mailbag devoted to the Sonics potential move to OKC and the fans reaction to that move. I can only imagine the heartache I would go through if that ever happened to my beloved Trailblazers. I think this is well worth the read and makes me sad and mad at the same time. I know the NBA is a business, but it is crud like this that makes you not want to be a fan. Read it and be thankful that it isn't us.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080228&sportCat=nba
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It's disgusting...
David Stern has got to go if he allows this to happen.
We people from BE have our balls well hung!.
Owners
Absolutely
I would be heartbroken if the Blazers left town. Remember how it felt just a couple years ago when there was talk of the possibility?
This sickens me.
I'm absolutely sickened by the fact that Stern has aided and abetted the destruction of this team. Seriously, the Sonics won the division in 2005, and two and a half years later Bennett and Stern act justified in moving the team? Get real. Stern is willing to sacrifice a successful franchise in a major market in order to help his longtime buddy get a team in a tiny market, and the other teams' owners are sitting back and letting it happen.
Sickning
How about David Stern' promise
Devaluing
by Engineering Problem on Feb 28, 2008 10:25 PM PST reply actions
You know

The league also needs to realize
Does that means I think you should never move a team? Of course not. If your experiment was an utter failure like New Orleans thirty years ago or Vancouver last decade you have to. The marriages just weren't right. But 40 years say that's not the case in Seattle.
--Dave
That's exactly
SAVE OUR BLAZERS, er.......SONICS
If you don't like it, buy a team and donate it
We live in a country that believes in the right of private ownership of property. Which means you have the right to do with your property as you see fit. If you can afford a major league sports franchise and you want to bring it to your home town, you have the right to try and acquire one and then move it.
The Sonics have lost money for at least 6 straight years. And it's not as if they were a cellar dwelling franchise all that time. 2 - 3 years ago I would have traded Portland's roster for their's in a heartbeat. That means that either Seattle isn't interested in supporting the team, or more likely, that it's impossible to make money without the revenue stream from corporate luxury boxes. Now if I have a choice of investing more of my money into a new arena or having someone else build one for me, I'm going to lean towards having someone build it for me. Unless you're in Paul Allen's tax bracket, most people would do the same.
I believe the league currently does not allow a city to own a team. I'm all in support of getting that changed. I'd sue the league if necessary. But until a city decides it wants to own and operate a sports franchise, it is all academic. Denigrating either the Sonics ownership group or David Stern is akin to being a whiney, liberal, freedom hating, incompetent ass. In other words, you probably vote Democratic.
Besides, why sweat it. Seattle will get the Hornets the year after the Sonics leave. Bennett and Shinn may even swap teams.
So taxpayers
Not if they don't want to.
It's simply a fact of the market place in professional sports that more cities want a major league franchise than there are franchises. Couple that with teams needing the revenue streams that coporate luxury boxes generate and you get the trend towards publically financed stadiums and arenas. Do I agree with it? Depends. Philosophically, no. But if came down to losing a team that means a lot to me, then maybe I go along with it.
I work up here in Seattle. Personally, I tend to think the City of Seattle has a lot more pressing matters that need attention (read dollars) than building a new arena for the Sonics. If that means losing the Sonics, then that's tough on Sonic's fans, but they are just one constituancy. You don't make Clay Bennett into the devil.
What if the City of Portland decided that they had a low income housing and a homeless problem and the solution was to require every new homeowner to take in a family or at the minimum, provide space in their yard for a tent and portapotty? That's basically the same thing. Afterall, people buy homes in Portland because it's a wonderful place to live. Therefore it is important to keep it wonderful by getting the homeless off the streets. That certainly outweighs any inconvienence an individual private property owner might experience. That's basically what people want to do to Bennett. They don't care if he loses money, so long as they aren't inconvienenced by losing their team.
Hey Jackass!!!!!
Actually, taxpayers often pay for skyscrapers...
And the people who own these buildings - they lease them out and make money. It's a business decision. Does the expected revenue stream from leasing justify the capital investment needed to acquire the land and construct the tower.
Big businesses move their corporate headquarters all the time. Look how many have left Portland. And cities compete for these companies, offering tax breaks and civic improvements (like picking up the tab for new infrustructure such as sewers, roads, etc). How is that different from moving a sports business? The only difference is that a sports team has people emotionally involved with it that don't work for it.
As for people's part affiliation having anything to do with where one stand's on this issue - that was more to get a rise than meant as an undeniable truth. Apparently it worked, as you feel the need to name call. But thanks for helping prove my point.
exucse me
"Denigrating either the Sonics ownership group or David Stern is akin to being a whiney, liberal, freedom hating, incompetent ass. In other words, you probably vote Democratic."
And theres a hudge diffrence between buildings for corporations and areanas. Citites DO NOT pay for the buildings headquarters for corporations. Giving tax breaks and incentives is not the same as ponying up 500 million for an arena. The diiffernce between moving coprporations and sports teams is actually hudge. For one thing most cities dont own office towers, companies, investment firms, and banks do, but cities end up owing arenas and stadiums when they are built. Corporations may ask for tax-breaks and things like and leave if they dont recieve them, but they never ask cities to give them 500 mill to build new headquarters like the sonics are trying to do. Thats the big diffrence, corporation FINANCE there own offices while sports franchises EXTORT cities and its citizens out of millions to build them arenas. But of course if you decide to simplify the matter as you have then any moron could make it seem like they are the same thing.
Actually it's more a case of the shoe fitting.
I'm not going to get into an economics argument with you. It wouldn't be fair, since you don't recognize that paying for improvements directly or offsetting costs with tax breaks is for the most part, revuene neutral for the jurisdiction. Or that a sports team is a corporation and subject to many of the same forces as any other corporation, including factors that lead to relocation.
And as a private corporation, it is going to operate in what it feels is in it's best interest. As long as it doesn't break any laws or regulations, it has the right to do that.
hmmm....
Seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.
So if PA wants to move the Blazers to Seattle or Orange County that's ok with you? I mean, hey he's the owner, and pretty much can do whatever he wants...this is America! Screw the fans...the only thing that matters is what daddy warbucks decides!
Seattle is not some expansion team that has been in a city for a few years...they have been there over 40 years. I'm sorry, but the fans of the Sonics have more ownership over the team than Clay Bennett's Oklahoma business group who's been involved with the team for what...2 years?
If David Stern allows the Sonics to be stolen from Seattle, I think it sets a dangerous precendent. Basically, the line will go like this from owners to the city "either you pay for a for a new arena that I want every so many years (so I can make even more money), or I will hijack your team out of here." Does that seem right?
If Clay Bennett's group do not like the Sonics in the Seattle, then they should have not bought the team in the first place and should sell it. This seems like the most reasonable solution.
Move them!
You've got to be kidding.
And seriously, you aren't the only fan of an out-of-town team. Isn't it a little childish to blame the residents of a city for the fact that your favorite team plays there and not where you live? If that were acceptable behavior, half the people on this site would have it out for the people of Portland, including the guy who runs the site.
I hate to be the one that has to break the news
The following NBA franchises have relocated at least once. In some cases, they are in their 4th city.
Hawks
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Rockets
Lakers
Clippers
Grizzlies
Hornets
76er's
Kings
Jazz
That's just the NBA. Moving a team, while tramatic to it's fans, is a long established practice. What's so different about the Sonics?
Lots of differences
Number 2: This whole arena thing is an excuse made up by clay bennent and David Stern to move the team. You see they keep on saying that Key arean is too small, too old, dosen't have enough luxury boxes, and that they cant possible survice there. So there grand plan is to move from the 14 largest marktet to the 45 largest. On top of that Clay bennet says he needs a 500 mill dollar stadium to stray in Seattle but he is more then happy to move to the Ford center in OKC which only cost 92 mill to make and has less luxury boxes then Key arena.
Look I understand that moving teams is part of sports, but this is a different situation becasue these organization has been sucessful in seattle, the reason that they have for moving are not valid in this situation. Whats happening here is the David Stern and Clay Bennet are long time friends, and what happened is they made an agreement to move a team to OKC when the situation presented it self. Seattle presented it self as the perfect situation becasue Stern and Bennet could create the illusion that key arena was not acceptable, and since there were only a few years left on the lease they could move out of Seattle rather quickly. If you study sport business and do reasarch on the situation you see that this move makes absolutly no sense econmicly for the franchise or the NBA. The only reason David Stern is allowing this to happen is becasue Clay Bennet is his friend, and if Bennet moves a team to OK he will be considered a hero in his home town. So all this is just David Stern doing his friend a favor INSTEAD of doing whats best for the NBA and its fans which is HIS JOB as the NBA comish. If you would just take the time to do some research on this specific situation you will see why this is different then other moves and why so many people are disgusted by what going on here.
So we are to believe that the average fan
Were this true, Stern wouldn't last out the season. The other owners would insist on his resignation. I'm not anywhere close to being an expert on the business end of an NBA franchise. However I believe I'm not going too far out on a limb when I argue that the most important revenue source outside of the national tv contract is a team's local cable network, followed by corporate (or deep pocket) support through luxury suites. Just about every franchise in the big three has built or pushed for venues with such suites. It is less important to fill individual seats than it is to have your boxes sold out. The way they usuallyt work is they are sold based on all events that occur in the venue, not just the team's games.
While market size will impact the size of the cable deal a team might get, it doesn't necessarily mean that much in terms of box sales. As long as there is sufficient demand for those, the owner doesn't care.
By the way, not sure where the $500 million came from. The numbers that have been bandied about up here have been in the $300 - $380 million range. There is also the fact that OKC is supposed to be upgrading the Ford Center. Finally, while I don't know how many boxes the Fox Center has, unless it has zero, it has more than Key Arena. I was just there to see the Blazer game and I didn't see a single luxury suite. The place looks at least 20 years behind the Rose Garden.
Simmons part two
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080229&sportCat=nba

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