Who is coaching Greg Oden?
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 AM PST
57 comments
|
PLAYER |
FG % |
T0'S PER 48 |
FOULS PER 48 |
MINUTES /GM. |
|
Greg Oden |
48.3 |
3.9 |
7.9 |
22.1 |
|
K. Perkins |
56.0 |
4.1 |
6.2 |
27.9 |
|
Al Horford |
53.3 |
2.3 |
4.4 |
31.9 |
|
E. Okafor |
59.3 |
2.9 |
4.5 |
33.9 |
|
Ben Wallace |
46.8 |
1.1 |
2.8 |
23.4 |
|
Erick Dampier |
62.1 |
2.2 |
5.7 |
21.1 |
|
Nene Hilario |
63.3 |
2.6 |
5.3 |
32.6 |
|
Kwame Brown |
54.9 |
3.1 |
6.9 |
15.5 |
|
Biedrins |
54.3 |
3.2 |
5.5 |
33.8 |
|
Yao Ming |
52.4 |
3.9 |
4.3 |
34.0 |
|
Nesterovic |
50.3 |
2.2 |
5.1 |
23.4 |
|
Chris Kaman |
57.1 |
3.7 |
4.3 |
35.5 |
|
Bynum |
55.4 |
2.6 |
4.8 |
29.7 |
|
Marc Gasol |
55.2 |
3.6 |
5.4 |
29.0 |
|
Bogut |
53.3 |
4.1 |
5.7 |
31.1 |
|
Brook Lopez |
47.4 |
2,7 |
5,6 |
26.9 |
|
T. Chandler |
57.0 |
1.9 |
5.5 |
32.1 |
|
D. Howard |
57.2 |
3.6 |
3.9 |
37.5 |
|
S. Dalembert |
45.1 |
2.6 |
5.9 |
25.7 |
|
Shaq |
58.8 |
3.3 |
6.0 |
27.4 |
|
Pryzbilla |
81.4 |
2.2 |
7.1 |
23.3 |
|
Tim Duncan |
52.5 |
3.2 |
3.4 |
52.5 |
|
Javale McGee |
49.6 |
1.8 |
6.5 |
18.4 |
|
AVERAGE |
52.6 |
2.9 |
6.1 |
28.3 |
<!--EndFragment-->
I looked at 22 of Greg's contemporaries. I was somewhat satisfied with big GO's play until I realized that the numbers tell a startling story.
FG% 48.3
20th out of 23. Only Ben Wallace, Sam Dalembert and Brook Lopez shooting worse. All those missed dunks and blocked shots explain these numbers. We all know that the blocked shots come from showing and holding the ball while he gathers himself unless he gets a predictable jump hook blocked.
Turnovers per 48 minutes
21st out of 23. Only Kendrick Perkins and Andrew Bogut are worse. Stripped balls, shuffling feet and offensive fouls are the story here with a few moving screens. Again he is showing the ball getting stripped on the double team and also regularly clearing out with his left elbow.
Fouls per 48 minutes
23rd out of 23. How many times is he going to stick his arm horizontally out and allow an offensive player to jump into him for the easy and unnecessary foul?
Minutes per game.
20th out of 23. I don't really have a big issue with this. The knee surgery and high fouls are reasons.
Solutions? Well this post may seem negative, but I'm not feeling down about it. So many of these issues are fundamentals that can be taught easily and learned with time. I know big Mo Lucas is out with serious health issues and may return this year. Thing is, we cannot wait for a legit big man coach to work daily with Greg exclusively. This is the year for him to learn and make good habits. I like our coaches, but Nate is a point guard, Monty a guard-forward, Dean a zone and X&O guy, Townsend a shooting coach & Mo Lucas get well soon!.
KP, Nate and Mr. Allen please get another big man coach in there!
1 recs |
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Patience
He doesn’t even have his full mobility yet.
If we weren’t seeing any improvement over the last 10 games, this would make more sense. But we are seeing improvement.
Greg doesn’t need a specialist big man coach yet, because the things he needs to learn right now aren’t big man specialties. You don’t need a specialist big man coach to remind you not to stick your arm out horizontally, even commenters on a blog know that.
The specialist is for refining skills. We’re not at all to that point.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 4:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
Exactly. I think the lunging fouls and conditioning will correct themselves as GO plays himself back into full game shape/he gains more confidence in his knee. Again, remember that Amare Stoudamire, an All Star, looked like a D-Leaguer when he came back from microfracture. The offensive skills also take big men longer to develop, maybe in the offseason the staff will delegate this task to someone/bring in a “personal coach” to serve the role Ewing has in Orlando with Dwight Howard/Kareem has with Bynum.
by blazeraddict on Dec 9, 2008 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew the day would come.
But I have to disagree with you. A big man coach is not just about refining skills. In fact I’d argue that most big man coaching is about the basics. Really big guys tend to dominate simply because of their size, often all the way up through college. They don’t necesserily have to learn basic footwork, positioning, were to hold the ball.
Greg’s only had one year of college coaching and considering how fast and explosive he was in high school, I seriously doubt any coach ever worked with him individually. They didn’t have to.
I think tweener raises an excellent point. With Lucas out, who is working with Greg?
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 9, 2008 7:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Get BUCK WILLIAMS
The Specialist is needed now, because currently Greg can not just over power people, he needs to learn good footwork and fundamentals. If he learns them now he will not only be much better by the end of this year, (read: Playoffs) but he will be that much better when he does get his lift and explosiveness back. I always thought playing this year without his usual explosiveness would be a good thing for Greg as it would force him to learn good footwork, and defensive rotation strategy.
BUCK WILLIAMS should be brought in to help Greg, he was an awsome defender, and had wonderful footwork on the offensive end, (don’t forget he was an offensive powerhouse before he became a Blazer).
by usmcr3049 on Dec 9, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That is a good one and he might be interested as he has been rumored a candidate before
It is very important to Steve Kerr to find a coach familiar with the forward / center position to encourage Amare Stoudemire and help him reach his full potential.
Steve stated "the physical presence of looking someone in the eyes is important" insinuating they want a big man to fill this spot. Terry Porter can help develop Amare’s skills but lacks the experience in the forward / center position.
There have been several names rumored to fill these positions.
The interview process started with Bill Cartwright and Buck Williams. Bill Cartwright was an assistant coach with the New Jersey Nets since the 2004 season. He was a teammate of Suns general manager Steve Kerr in Chicago in 1993-94 and also was an assistant on Kerr’s 1996-97 and 1997-98 Bulls teams which won NBA titles.
Buck Williams was a three-time All-Star with the Nets and averaged 14.2 points and 11.0 rebounds over 17 seasons with New Jersey, Portland and New York. He and Porter played on the 1989-90 and 1991-92 Trail Blazers teams that advanced to the NBA Finals.
Buck Williams and Bill Cartwright are both veteran big man with extensive NBA careers that are very familiar with forward / center position.
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think that normally this would be Maurice Lucas, but I have no clue.
Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!
by joof on Dec 9, 2008 6:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He needs a big man coach
and I hope it can be Luke again ….BUT..
You actually need someone with the body to show you how to use the body…
there really is no substitute…it doesn’t need to be a star but someone 6’10" + who has a good coaching sense and some div I college success….trying to remember who Milwaukee brought in this year…some UNC guy who coached in D-league..
There is no substitute, no matter what…cause it goes beyond theory an into actual experience…
by LetsBlaze on Dec 9, 2008 7:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You forgot rebound rate
Number one out of 23.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 9, 2008 7:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
as Ron Burgandy might say...
it’s kind of a big deal.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 9, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do say that
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Dec 10, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not trying to be misleading with the stats. His scoring isn't bad & his rebounding is great.
The rebounding fundamentals can be coached to an extent, but the bigger, stronger, longer, quicker center is always going to outrebound a less physically talented player.
I just really think that other skills highlighted (Turnovers, Fouls & shooting percentage) can really be improved with consistent and specific coaching. There is no downside in bringing in a big man specialist.
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he is a rookie coming off of a full missed season...give him time
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
by danevan on Dec 9, 2008 8:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things...
1) Many are saying that Pryz is playing the best ball of his career. How many years has he been in the league? Is he coming back from microfracture surgery?
2) I think last game was the first time he really looked like he wasn’t walking on eggshells, worried about injury. He was throwing his body around. He’s gonna be great. It’s gonna take a year or two.
by raoulduke on Dec 9, 2008 8:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Joel is more valuable to Greg's development
than a specialist coach, at least for right now.
I know that thought is only tangentially related to your comment, which is a good one, but thought I would throw it in there.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In a tangental sort of way.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 9, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to get Coach Lucas healthy...
I too wonder how much not having him around is slowing Oden’s progress. That said I’m not disappointed in Oden’s body of work this season. He’s rebounded well, and he improves visibly every game. He’ll get there, but I think it might take him longer with Lucas out. I want Lucas to come back. Selfishly, I worry about that, but really, all the Blazers have is time. Oden will be fine.
by ranma on Dec 9, 2008 9:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Chris Dudley is still in town right?
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 9, 2008 9:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
How much to get Sabonis back?
He’s an expert at playing at a very very high level without using his knees at all.
"I like blocks," Fernandez said.
by joelor on Dec 9, 2008 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's actually an interesting thought.
I wonder what Sabas is up to these days or what kind of shape he is in? It would be like “pulling a Schonley”, as in reconnecting with a beloved Blazer who left or was shut out in the Whitsitt days.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
by lukeyhere on Dec 9, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and I mean in some sort of coaching role…not as our starting center. What is he 82 years old?
I assumed you meant the same.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
by lukeyhere on Dec 9, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was watching something on NBATV called
the 2000 NBA Finals or something, about the L*kers first championship. Needless to say, it was painful to watch, but I did get to see a long interview between Sabonis and Ahmad Rashad.
Sabas seemed to be in good health, he was showing off his 75 children and talking about each of them. Also, Wikipedia says
Sabonis is also an entrepreneur. His company “Sabonio klubas ir partneriai” runs a windows manufacturing business
Window manufacturing? Come on, Arvydas, Paul Allen will give you more Windows than you could ever want. Come hang out with Greg.
"I like blocks," Fernandez said.
by joelor on Dec 9, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would not surprise me that Arvidas could still play in the NBA, if he wanted to.
But I think he’s happy right where he is. As I recall, he loves Lithuania (I know that’s not spelled correctly) and always wanted to be there more than any other place. (Sort of how I feel about Oregon.) I think Sabonis liked Portland, at least as much as he was able to like a second home, but my understanding was his wife didn’t. She always wanted to be home even more than Sabas.
Arvidas is a family man and a proud citizen of his country. Add to that his multiple business interests and the fact he’s still pretty much a national hero and I doubt no amount of Paul Allen’s money could pry him away from home, whether to play or coach. Maybe an outside chance of getting him to come over in the summer to work with Oden, if his kids enjoy the Oregon coast. But I doubt it.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 9, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure the team needs another guy with a strange accent
Even though that’s a reason I’m rooting for Freeland to make the team next year.
by tominhawaii on Dec 9, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch it, buddy
Oh, wait, he has an English accent. Never mind. Carry on.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Verses a Scottish accent ...
.. which everywhere else in the world is called an unrecognizable burr that may or may not represent spoken thought.
I swear to this day that I could not make out a single word I heard from this older woman in a Helensbourogh chip house when I placed my order. After a couple tries, her son had to come over so I could get my dinner.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 9, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Helensburgh?
You can’t understand someone from Helensburgh? This is supposed to mean something?
I can’t understand anyone from Helensburgh, either. Aberdeen might be another country entirely, but at least you can get some of the things they say. Methil in Fife is pretty horrendous, too.
Why do you think Scots have always stabbed each other in the back? It’s because we can’t understand each other, and naturally assume the other guy is insulting us or making fun of the way we talk.
There is NO SUCH THING as a Scottish accent. There are about 487 Scottish accents.
Fortunately, everyone understands me, because I was influenced enough by my time in America to sound sort of that way, and everyone understands an American accent from watching movies. They also think everyone in America drives hot sports cars, goes to church six times a week, rides a horse, shoots three or more bad guys a month, and sleeps with a different hot babe every other day. Great place, America.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: your last paragraph
That pretty much describe’s this American’s life. Except for sleeping with the different hot babe part. That ended with marriage. No I only sleep with the same hot babe every night.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
England ruled the world for centuries . . .
Not you !
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Dec 9, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suggested this in an earlier thread . . .
In-shape or not, Sabas is one of the most skilled
big men to every play basketball. They both tend to lumber,
but the rolling right hand hook, the up and under scoop and
up fake-two dribbles to the other side of the rim reverse are great
places to start with GO. Sabas grew up in the old Red Army/
Russian National team, so the practice hours were the best
companion to extraordinary hand eye cordination. Of course,
in the beginning, he also had the scary athletisicm to go with
the 7’3" frame.
Sounds like a pretty good BIG man coach to me !
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Dec 9, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine if Oden could learn to pass like Sabas?
by raoulduke on Dec 9, 2008 10:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Sabas would comeback to Portland to coach Greg...
totally not possible but damn would that be something or what.
I hate bears
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Dec 9, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a rookie.
Stuff like cleaner footwork, learning to avoid charges, learning to protect the ball is going to come pretty naturally.
Agree on getting a big man coach though, both for Oden and LMA. I’d like to see if we can pry Kareem away from the Lakers. He’s done a nice job with Bynum, and an offer of a full asst coaching gig instead of the special consultant thing he’s got going should be pretty appealing to him. I can’t think of too many better uses for Paul Allen’s money..
by howlingfantods on Dec 9, 2008 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Greg’s finishing has been terrible so far. He needs to be stronger with the ball— it’s honestly the only thing holding him back from averaging 15 ppg.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And fouling out opposing centers
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
None of those other players are being targeted like Oden. Whether for good or bad, Oden has waaaaaay more pressure on him than a guy like McGee or Lopez. Everyone in the league wants to block Oden’s dunk attempt, in case you haven’t been watching. Entire arenas are salivating to see one of their players get a block/dunk on Oden.
That kind of pressure along with all the media hype is going to have a huge effect.
Yes, other players have been in the spotlight and performed up to expectations, but remember, Greg is still out of shape. Amare looked terrible when he first came back from microfrac surgery.
We have yet to see the real Greg Oden.
by koyote on Dec 9, 2008 11:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Walton?
Great passing center, but definitely a windbag.
Could he help Greg? Would he come back to Portland?
Now that I think about it, Walton is just too self-absorbed to ever be a coach, but it’s an interesting thought.
by koyote on Dec 9, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If by "interesting thought" you mean
a good idea for a reality show in which Oden slowly looses his mind watching Walton prance around in his old uniform quoting John Wooden, and Walton, drunk on cheap reality fame, tries his luck on Dancing with the Stars only to break his foot trying to pirouette to the Grateful Dead’s “Casey Jones,” crushing his partners hand during his fall and sparking astronomical ratings, leading television stations to cease airing NBA games and just book programming in which wannabes fall down on each other because, you know, Greg Oden went crazy and the NBA was never the same after that, then I totally agree … very interesting.
by unemployedreflection on Dec 9, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
definitely not what I meant...
but very interesting nonetheless.
by koyote on Dec 9, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden also has Joel
How many other young centers got a Joelish type of teammate?
by tominhawaii on Dec 9, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
throw money at Ewing
He seems to be doing wonder for Howard.
by matthewcc on Dec 9, 2008 12:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Get the best
What’s Hakeem Olajuwon up to these days? Imagine Oden busting out a “Dream Shake” move, heh.
by Rule on Dec 9, 2008 1:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i think he might be working with Yao in Houston, not sure though
honor rasheed wallace
by Zaron5551 on Dec 9, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys do know
that this has been suggested on Bedge before, and KP reads Bedge, right?
And you know that KP is fully aware that some big men do have specialist big man coaches, right?
And KP hasn’t hired a big man coach, right?
I’m going to put those three little facts together and come to the conclusion that KP has thought about it and decided this is not necessary, beneficial, or cost effective right now.
Perhaps they don’t want to confuse matters by having a guy come in and teach things that might contradict what Luke was teaching and will teach when he comes back.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
or possilby he is still looking for the right big man coach and it's just taking him a long time.
honor rasheed wallace
by Zaron5551 on Dec 9, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to put those three little facts together and come to the conclusion that KP has thought about it and decided this is not necessary, beneficial, or cost effective right now.
I suppose the reason could be that KP & Nate are being loyal to Mo Lucas and keeping the job for him. It’s hard to convince me that a big man coach for a once a decade raw center talent is not necessary, beneficial or cost effective. That in fact, makes no sense.
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
they are keeping the job for him. I thought we were only discussing a temporary fill-in while Luke is out, which to me seemed of little benefit.
Were you proposing dumping Luke and getting somebody else to do the job? I can’t see that happening, either.
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer to add a coach to work with Luke and Oden.
Luke could continue as Forward and Center coach when he comes back and be helped by Greg’s coach. Luke doesn’t seem to have a huge ego and maybe the help would relieve stress for him.
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet KP thought about it before reading it here.
by rmcdougall on Dec 9, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You really think so?
:)
Do you like asparagus?
by jscot on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Luke is back!
Maurice Lucasd: “I’m still standing”
Quote is from Lance’s “Center Court Blog”.
Assistant coach and Trail Blazers legend Maurice Lucas returned to practice today after battling bronchial pneumonia for the better part of the last two months.
"You're really making me feel good about myself, little man," says Oden as he starts dancing after scoring a goal. "You better come harder than that."
by BlueBooYay on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, here comes the "Belly Up" jumper !
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Dec 9, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great news! Good for him & his health. Good for the Blazer bigs.
I still want an Oden specific coach.
by tweener on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We all know who the Blazers need to bring in to coach Greg
The one and only. #11
by Sabonis4Ever on Dec 9, 2008 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
#32
Let the ties bind us.
"You're really making me feel good about myself, little man," says Oden as he starts dancing after scoring a goal. "You better come harder than that."
by BlueBooYay on Dec 9, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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