Do Blazers Have More Than One PF?
by Trutherlizer on Dec 7, 2008 9:09 PM PST
52 comments
It may not be too early to ask this question. Over the years, Portland has had some of the best power forwards of the modern era. Two of them hang in the Rose Garden rafters: Maurice Lucas and Lloyd Neal. I would say that three others were exceptional: Buck Williams, Brian Grant and Rasheed Wallace. Zach was above average, but not in the same class as the others. Cliff Robinson was a tweener, always like Wallace was later -- more comfortable on the perimeter than inside.
What made the above the great ones above true power forwards, was that they were willing to play around the basket, to contest big guys for rebounds, to defend the rim with their bodies against anyone, and they could not be intimidated.
Aldrige has shown some low post game and some toughness around the basket, but who else on Portland's roster qualifies as a POWER forward? Who is truely a back-up PF?
Frye has not just been struggling, he's been playing like a small forward trapped in a power forward's body. Power forwards try to score near the basket much of the time. They rebound even when not scoring. Channing shoots jumpers near the 3-point line. He seems relunctant to mix it up inside for loose balls.
McMillan puts Outlaw at the 4, but Travis is illsuited to play the prototypical power forward role. He's quicker at the position than he is powerful. He doesn't post up. He rebounds like the small forward his body and mentality mean him to be.
Diogu has the mind for the 4, but neither the body nor the skills to be effective as LAMA's main backup.
Can the Blazers excel without a second PF?
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yes a smart vertan PF for me: like Jones did for us at SF
Our second team
Pryz and Mr X, both veteran bangers grabbing every rebound possible.
Ahhh sweet.
with Sergio, Rudy and Batum running their smalls ragged.
Ahhh
by holder on Dec 7, 2008 9:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yes that is a thing of beauty...
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 7, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Wilcox fits this need
to a tee
by jlarose78 on Dec 8, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and he played with Blake
at the U of M
by two4larue on Dec 8, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
two words: Shave and lick
Mr. Randolph will open some eyes… trust me.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 7, 2008 9:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
WHAT?! FLAG
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 7, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
???
Shavelick Randolph?
The dude has serious skills. He was the best high school player in the country. He’s battled through many, many injuries and is now in the best shape of his life.
Nobody, including you, will give him a chance… but watch what KP does over the next few months.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 7, 2008 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just tell him all the other teams are full of gays.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 7, 2008 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm proud of Portland for being gay-friendly
maybe Shave will learn a thing or two living here.
He seems like a nice enough kid.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 7, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Portland as well as the rest of our country still has too much tolerance for homophobia
which to me is just as abhorrent as open racism. Hopefully education and progression continue to push this oft forgotten portion of human rights and social justice.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 7, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Y'know, intolerance of intolerance is intolerance.
by AK1984 on Dec 8, 2008 2:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm read my comment above yours.
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 8, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah obviously dave erased the rest of the convo. too bad...
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 8, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well, I already read through most of it before the deletion.
It was definitely a solid discussion in my, uh, worthless opinion.
by AK1984 on Dec 8, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IYWO?
in your worthless opinion?
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 8, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG I was kidding. Sorry.
I think there is a reason he was kept on the team over Hill of Nazareth , KP has a proven eye for serious talent. KP doesn’t just PICK someone b/c he has a slightly suggestive first name or potentially awesome comeback story… shavlik is good.
Channing and or Travis are out. I honestly think Shav and Ike get more minutes if Ike isn’t included in a deal.
I could be wrong though it happens rarely.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 7, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I love Shave… Ike is a joke and Channing needs to retire asap.
I’m sure you’re right, as seems to be the case 99.9% of the time.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 7, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree.
channing is a studmuffin and that guy will be in the association for years to come. He’s playin solid ball right now and could start on several other teams.
Rip City REVIVAL
by HonestPete on Dec 7, 2008 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Solid ball?
Where were you the last two games? Channing’s ball has been anything but solid.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 7, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
about as solid as a milkshake on a Dallas playground in late July
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 7, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.
That was a great Dan Rather imitation.
by DonkeyShins on Dec 8, 2008 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pete is secretly KP...
and he’s hoping other teams are reading this message board.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 8, 2008 7:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you must be playing "opposite day"
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 8, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Bass and Paul Millsap
Are unrestricted free agents this coming offseason.
by Qyntel Woods on Dec 7, 2008 9:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Offer Millsap the max!
we’ve got the money, and have a need, let’s make sure we fill it.
…
Okay, done channeling my inner TominHawaii.
:p thbbt!
Poor grammar is poor communication.
Poor communication causes misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding causes fighting.
Fighting causes war.
War causes death.
Therefore, your poor grammar may just kill us all.
(One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season)
by T Darkstar on Dec 7, 2008 9:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I’d be willing to put $11.34 on a wager that some dumb GM will over pay for Millsap.
by tominhawaii on Dec 8, 2008 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Bass gets by on a faulty reputation, for he's much softer than is realized by most people.
Also, Paul Millsap will be a restricted free-agent during this upcoming off-season. Due to the possibility that Carlos Boozer will bolt when given the opportunity, Millsap will get locked up to a long-term contract by the Utah Jazz. The Jazz might be better off with Millsap starting at power forward in lieu of Boozer, too.
by AK1984 on Dec 7, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't really matter in Utah
Whether its Andrei or Paul, they’ll be just fine at PF. Millsap would be perfect, but will probably be kept. Your analysis on Bass is harsh. He’s not playing up to last years level, but I can see what you’re trying to say. A ton of his shots are jump shots, but the thing about it is that he’s a mighty fine jump shooter (Jump shot eFG% = .487 last year). He also is a nice board crash on O (which is part of what we’re looking for).
by as11osu on Dec 7, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While clearly undersized for a PF, he dunked and rebounded more in the Mavs last game against ATL than Channing all season
His numbers are stable or up across the board. I doubt Dallas/Cuban will let him go easily, but depending on what the Blazers would be willing to spend it could be an interesting off-season acquisition.
B-Rex bandwagon begins
by Norsktroll on Dec 8, 2008 2:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How does Sergio's stats line stack up next to the aging Jason Kidd's?
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 8, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really good
Kidd has (re-)improved his outside shot again this year to an adequate level, is still the best rebounding point guard (maybe besides Rondo), and can still pass great in running offenses. Sergio might be an interesting backup, but Barea’s stock who most Mavs fans hated before the season has unexpectedly risen to an all-time high. He is playing like a mini-Jason Terry at the moment, getting 20 points in two games. As long as Josh Howard is still rehabbing, they are playing Kidd at PG, Barea at SG, Terry at SF, Williams or Bass at PF and Dirk at C in crunch time. Super-weird lineup, but it works.
B-Rex bandwagon begins
by Norsktroll on Dec 8, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We're doing pretty good so far.
Might as well stay with it.
Poor grammar is poor communication.
Poor communication causes misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding causes fighting.
Fighting causes war.
War causes death.
Therefore, your poor grammar may just kill us all.
(One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season)
by T Darkstar on Dec 7, 2008 9:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
But that is no fun at all! Let’s play with the RLEC Travis and Channing scenario, they aren’t gonna last so lets speculate our fingers off!!!
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 7, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A Millsap-like presence
would make all the difference in the world! I love T-Law and Frye, but I think T-Law is on the trading block. We have a log-jam at SF, an extra PG and we need another true big! Nice post, Trutherlizer!
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the Power of RIP CITY!!!"
http://www.darthblazer.com
by Darth-Blazer on Dec 7, 2008 9:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
T-Law fills a unique role for us
that nobody else on the team does.
Buffet of Goodness, on the other hand, is LaMarcus Lite.
I’d gladly trade the Buffet for a side of beef down low, provided that side of beef has SOME discernible skill.
by EngineerScotty on Dec 8, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As I've said for over a year, the Blazers need a "Maxsap" off the bench
But I do have one qualification. You point to Maurice Lucas as the kind of classic power forward the current Blazers need, then try to sneak LMA in there as a power forward in that mold. No sale! I love LMA and believe he’s a good fit for this Blazers team, but let’s get real. While LMA is becoming more physical as he matures, he’ll never be a Maurice Lucas. But here’s my real point: LMA doesn’t HAVE to be.
Maurice Lucas played alongside a finesse center: Bill Walton. By Walton’s own admission, he needed a big, strong, enforcer-type forward to play alongside. But LMA is playing alongside a power center in Oden/Przy. So his inside/outside game is probably a better complement than a classic power forward’s game would be.
In tonight’s Raptors game we saw a wonderful preview of just how effective the LMA/ GO front line is going to be. The combo of GO’s inside dominance with LMA’s speed and versatility is a looming nightmare for the rest of the league.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 7, 2008 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that LAMA is no Lucas now . . .
. . . but can you be sure he won’t be in a couple of years? I admit that I’m not familiar with Lucas’s game pre-Blazers, so I wonder: was he always “The Enforcer” or was it a role he grew into to? Lamarcus is still young. I see signs he could grow into a more classic power forward. Pro, his game against Bosh. Con, his game against KG.
by Trutherlizer on Dec 8, 2008 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do know that Lucas played center in the ABA
Guys like that are born, not made. David West, Carlos Boozer, Jason Maxiell, Larry “Mr. Mean” Smith, Karl (ughh) Malone: these are classic power forwards (OK, a couple of those examples might be a hair on the short side). Most lacked finesse—and shooting ability—at first. They may have been slender as rookies in some cases, but they were already extremely strong and aggressive.
But again, I don’t feel you need a guy like that to play alongside a power center like Greg Oden. LMA is perfect in that role. As he continues to mature, he’ll balance a reasonable amount of physical presence with his tremendous speed, quickness, and shooting ability. He and GO will go together like bread & butter. We got to see an early preview of that tonight.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 8, 2008 2:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Luke dropped Gilmore like an oak tree
and after that, no one would mess with him
until the Daryl Dawkins faceoff, anyway
by two4larue on Dec 8, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it's true
you’ve really been pushing for a maxsap. good call hurryup. we need a maxsap ASAP so we can deep six these pseudo PFs once and for all.
"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."
MT Suit, 11/25/08
by MT Suit on Dec 7, 2008 10:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I actually like Trout & the Buffet of Goodness
Frye is intelligent, funny, team-oriented, and a hard worker. Plus, when he’s on that outside shot is deadly. And Trout, for all his boneheadedness, is an amazing talent.
But how many stringbean, finesse “power” forwards can one roster support? Especially come playoff time, you need more big, powerful, active bodies. Look around the league: the teams that go deep in the playoffs come at you with “Maxsaps” in WAVES.
I’m afraid that, sooner or later, at least one of our stringbeans is going to have to be traded for someone more physically imposing. (I was going to stick with the vegetable metaphor there but thought better of it.)
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 8, 2008 12:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Making it Work
The trade dealine is 73 days away, and we know that KP is actively shopping LaFrentz and his contract.
We also know that with Webster’s return, we will not have the minutes for the forwards we now have. Webster/Batum/Rudy will increasingly consume the SF minutes, which pushes Outlaw/Frye to consume the backup minutes behind LMA. We also know that we have a rookie in Bayless sitting on the bench, because there aren’t enough minutes at the guard slot to play him, and that Sergio has made it plain that if he can’t get the minutes in Portland, that he wants to be moved. And this ensures that at some point, we’ll have to decide how to deal with this. We can’t have two young guards, both capable at some point of playing on the second team, trying to grab the 15 or so minutes left at PG. One will go.
The question isn’t “if” there’ll be a trade of some kind, it’s only when. Furthermore, if we try to get a more “suitable” backup PF to play behind LMA, then that means that neither Frye or Outlaw will be getting those backup PF minutes – the new player will. So both would likely be traded. At the same time, if we traded them both along with RLF’s contract, that would be far too much for just one backup PF. As a result, something else will have to be included to make the trade work from the other end. In this scenerio, we’d probably then look at the PG slot. And again, this could likely become a 2 for 1 scenerio, as bringing in a new PG would put both Sergio and Bayless on the bench – and that’s not going to make either happy. In sum, it looks to be like a 4 for 2 with RLF’s contract is what it would take to make this work.
by Eben Calder on Dec 8, 2008 5:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is all open to debate
But my take is that, yes, sooner or later either Sergio or Bayless will go. Thanks to Rudy’s presence, there are no back-up minutes at the two for Bayless. And thanks to Roy’s situational moves to the point, there aren’t enough back-up point guard minutes for both Bayless & Sergio.
But I don’t agree that BOTH Frye and Outlaw need to be traded. One of those guys could split the back-up four slot with a “Maxsap”-type. Which one would get more minutes on a given night would depend on matchups. What with foul trouble and injuries, I think you can go with 3 power forwards on a team. It’s important for your power forwards to be able to play physically in the paint without worrying about foul trouble. The top teams tend to have forwards to spare.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 9, 2008 1:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Incidentally, the Blazers already HAVE a Maxsap
That would be Diogu. Unfortunately, he doesn’t seem to be very good. But he’s actually the exact type of player I expect the Blazers to pick up at some point as a replacement for either Trout or Frye (more likely the latter).
Of course, I could be wrong. KP, Tom Penn, and Nate may have their own ideas & plans, and they’re pretty smart guys.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 9, 2008 1:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing
I was just thinking the same thing, I feel that we need to consider cutting Trout and Frye’s Minutes (Frye can have as many as Bayless) and give those minutes to Martell and Ike and see how Ike handles being the back up PF I also feel if we were to do a trade we should consider getting a gritty banger inside who doesn’t back down. Just a suggestion but Chris Wilcox would be a good backup and we could probally get him for super cheap.
by jlarose78 on Dec 8, 2008 7:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Chris has a lot of game and is strong as *%8!
he’s a north carolininan who played in the ACC (think he overlapped at MD with Blake) so I watched some of his early progression..finished HS in town here…he would thrive in the right envionment…
by LetsBlaze on Dec 8, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Wilcox and Blake were at UM at the same time. I think Wilcox is a UFA at season’s end, so it shouldn’t take too much to pry him away from OKC. I’d offer Frye, Diogu, draft choices and some of Paul Allen’s money
by two4larue on Dec 8, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
only downside to Wilcox
Chris might want to play big minutes this season to drive up his FA value…of course if he gets traded to PDX at the deadline he’ll have to take whatever minutes he can get. (Wilcox also would offer excellent “insurance” in case of injury to Greg/Zilla)
by two4larue on Dec 8, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as far into the league as he is
is he ready to be a backup to LMA…for very long?
by LetsBlaze on Dec 8, 2008 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We need a Mark Bryant type of back up.
A guy who is not afraid to take someone’s head off and doesn’t care if he gets some fines. I wouldn’t mind seeing Shave get some minutes over Frye.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Dec 8, 2008 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
PF Possiblility - Tryus Thomas?
Here is a young guy, not fitting in Chicago. While Chicago needs outside shooting, aka Frye. The Blazers could move Frye and a 2nd round pick for Thomas and mold him into that rebounding defensive stud off the bench. As of now, he rebounds fairly well 5.5 which is close to what Aldrige averages with way less minutes, and avereges 1.5 blocks per game. With the right coaching and a good system, this could be a great steal and asset to the Blazer now and for the next 10 years.
by TeamChemistry on Dec 8, 2008 5:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That would be sweet
A net trade of LMA for Channing Frye, Veektor, and a second rounter or two.
There ought to be a rule in the NBA: Never hire a GM named Paxson.
by EngineerScotty on Dec 8, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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