Am I the only one who would want Baron Davis?
by John Park Williams on Dec 4, 2008 2:01 PM PST
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PrintAs much as I love Steve Blake, I just cannot imagine a team advancing far in the playoffs with him as their point guard. He is a great player, love that fact that hes on the team, but when the games get intense, the great teams will sag off of him and double team BRoy. When Stevie was at Maryland, people forget that he was benched for most of the final four because the opponents essentially didnt guard him.
If the Clips keep losing like they do, and if Baron and Dunleavy dont see eye to eye, dont you think the Clips would be willing to take Raef, Jerryd and a first round pick in exchange for Baron Davis?
But,
Q) Would you be in favor of a Baron/B.Roy backcourt?
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Baron Davis
I would rather have Gilbert Arenas, but I would love to have Baron as well.
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 4, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
He's on my fantasy team
and I just want to get rid of him. He shots less than 40% from the field and less than 30% from the arc, but that doesn’t stop him from firing away.
yup
3 players for you:
Steve Kerr
BJ Armstrong
Kenny Smith
a total of 10 rings.
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
0 rings
Case closed, your honor. PG is not that important in the grand scheme of things as long as you have a pair of decent ball handlers you are ok.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 4, 2008 2:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
"case closed your honor" ??
more like “case closed you dishonor” for suggesting Baron Davis again.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 4, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
i guess.
I was making the case to our fine judges in the BE crowd not the OP, but i guess.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
It also doesn't hurt in the scheme of things to play on the same teams as
MJ, Hakeem and Tim Duncan when it comes to winning rings either
but we have
Roy, LMA and Oden who while individually may not be as good as any of those players but they are all on one team.
It is kind of funny you mention a SG, C and PF and those happen to be the best players we have.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Looking down the list of previous NBA Champions one could assume that all-star pass first PGs don't win championships, but all-star scoring point guards can.
- Here’s a list of teams that have won a championship with what i would consider a top tier PG since Isiah’s Piston’s won in 89/90.
- 06/07 Spurs: Tony Parker
- 04/05 Spurs: Tony Parker
- 03/04 Pistons: Chauncey Billups
- 02/03 Spurs: Tony Parker
- The most telling stat might be that their have only been 2 teams since the L*kers in 87/88 that have won a championship with a player on their team leading the finals in assists.
- 07/08: Rajon Rondo
- 03/04: Chauncey Billlups
And the opponents of both of those team were the L*kers being run by Derek Fisher/Jordan Farmar and washed up GP/Derek Fisher respectively. So really, they were the leading in assists because they were going against a platoon situation of very mediocre PGs.
- And my final stat list, PGs that have ever been named the finals MVP
- Chauncey Billups
- Tony Parker
- Isiah Thompson
- Magic Johnson
- Jo Jo white
What does all that say? If anything, it says stop raving about how guys like Stockton, Kidd, and Nash are great for the game and play “the right way.” Playing “the right way” should mean winning championships and these guys didn’t win a single one. The star point guards that have won are just all around great ball players, not necessarily assist men. The rest of the point guards that have won, which is a much bigger portion of the list, are just role players.
I think if you had a guy like Baron in his prime, on a good team, and willing to give up the ball if it meant wins, you could absolutely win a championship. But now that he’s entering his twilight, injury prone, and has developed bad habits from having to carry too many mediocre to bad teams I wouldn’t think twice, about going after him.
Found all my stats here
Completely random stat I found while looking all this up: The only player to win a Finals MVP from a losing team was Jerry West, and that was the very first time they named a Finals MVP
I don't think it's fair to say that PGs in the mold of Stockton are not championship calibre
I don’t like him, and I never liked the Jazz. But I don’t think the Jazz failed to win a championship because of Stockton’s play.
Well that may be true
I think it is hard to pinpoint but a HOF coach, a top 3 scorer in the league and the top ast man in history, yet still no ring.
Read my post a while back and it further illustrates my point
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/8/5/586953/brandon-roy-what-s-the-poi#7884915
Besides Magic who was soooo unique in his own right and lets not forget Kareem was there also.
I dont know why this happens because it seems like the teams with a top flight ast PG should be better but perhaps their greatest strength is why they lose.
Having one person that runs the O and handles the ball has never led to much, it may sound as if they are playing as a team, but much like when a player takes a ton of shots, even though he scores 50 they lose because they did not play as a team. Most championship pgs have been 4-5 a/gm as the sgs will have 4-5 and the sf will have a high # say 2-3. When one person has the ball and makes plays, everyone stands around, while if everyone is passing the attack is multi pronged and can come from anywhere.
I think that in a Stockton type pg, if you shut them down, you shut the team down, unlike if you shut Kerr out you have to worry about MJ or Pippen, MUCH harder to defend.
Imagine having a quarterback, a halfback and a tail back that can all throw a football 50 yards on a dime, say Manning, Steve Young and Randall Cunningham all in the backfield, that would be impossible to defend.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
No, actually bdizzleistheshizzle Thankgiving turkey also wants Baron Davis
so there are two of you that I know of.
my sources tell me bdizzleistheshizle was high on egg nogg fumes
and has since repented and recanted from said heresy, even if it may have been in jest.
That is really hideous
--jscot
I'm surprised your sources remember what happened despite the fumes.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 4, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
it's been a long road...
but my sources seem to be recovering….they have been consistently attending eggnoggers anonymous since the infamous eggnog over-dosage.
That is really hideous
--jscot
I doubt that the Clippers would make that trade
seeing as they paraded him around as their big acquisition. Donald Sterling and Dunleavy don’t see eye-to-eye, so if Davis and Dunleavy butt heads, its much more likely that Sterling would send the coach packing than his star, home-town player.
I believe that Blake does exactly what he needs to do when left open. He’s shooting 43.9% from the field, and a very solid 42.1% from distance. Blake may have been left open in the Final Four, but that was over five years ago, and he has developed a nice three point stroke.
Baron, meanwhile, is shooting 38.4% from the field and 27.5% from three this year, so if they sag off Blake (who is a very good three point shooter), what do you think they’d do to Baron? Davis can also be quite a pouter when things aren’t going his way. In my opinion, Blake has been too solid a player for us to take from the starting lineup, and both Bayless and Sergio could step in and be effective (one of the last two guys mentioned could end up being the starter in the next year or so).
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
Yes.
This topic for the “Almost Daily Trade Posts Drawer,” please.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 4, 2008 2:16 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
hey!!! you're comment is green!!! with only 5 recs....
so only the fanpost limit was increased? :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
I'm sick of all the Blake-bashing
He is doing a solid job as our starter IMO
by WISEMAN on Dec 4, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I love Blake
He does an AWESOME job starting. He knows exactly what his roll is and what he’s doing.
by BrokeButStoked on Dec 4, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Blake's good.
Blake is good. Very efficient. Doesn’t light it up often, but just plain does his job.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Dec 4, 2008 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
I was going to rec timbo...
… but he’s already gone green.
So this one’s for you.
(In case no one knew, I too like Steve Blake.)
hakkaa päälle !
joking:
I bet we could get Baron for Pryzbilla and the rights to that British Center. The Clippers would have the tallest team in the history of earth.
Blake does all we need him to do and more.
We don’t need a high scoring point guard to win. Let B Roy take care of the late scoring and distributing. If teams double Roy he can just kick out to Blake for 3. Thats plenty good for me.
Blake is money!! Do not replace him!!
We need a better passing PG than Baron
I’d go with Marbury.
Personally I don’t like Baron’s dealing, but he was fun to watch against the Mavs.
I fall in the less trades group.
I like Davis.
He’s awesome, a little too awesome actually. He would cost too much and the Clips wouldn’t give him away. Also, I’m not sure he would defer to Roy.
Steve Kerr
BJ Armstrong
Kenny Smith
a total of 10 rings.
So, I guess if you have one of the three greatest role playing point guards of all time you can win championships. Two of those guys played next to the greatest basketball player of all time, which certainly helps.
Davis would be an upgrade at PG no question and the Blazers could use an upgrade. If they could get him without giving up Roy, Aldrige, Oden, Rudy, or Pryzbilla I’m sure they would do it. But they can’t.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2008 3:12 PM PST reply actions
Blake
Blake is doing his job amiably. He makes open threes, distribute the ball, and do not turn the ball over. For this season, thats good enough.
Jerryd Bayless is the future, He could be a defensive point guard that can pressure the ball. He can shoot and drive. He is a perfect compliment to Brandon Roy.
There is no need for a trade unless you think Bayless is not in the Blazers’ future plan.
You're not alone...
but you’re certainly in the minority.
Baron and Roy are both effective with the ball in their hands. It wouldn’t work.
And Blake is having a career year.
No thanks, for me.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 4, 2008 3:46 PM PST reply actions
Stockton, Nash, Kidd
do/did play the right way. Stockton’s problem was a guy called MJ. Nash was a warrior against the Spurs while his team was gagging. We’d be lucky to have him. Kidd never had a team worth mentioning. He’d also be great in our ball movement system.
No...you probably aren't the only one...
But I don’t want Davis. I am not sure we need to make a change. I do think PG is the one position where an upgrade could be considered but I don’t think Blake should be gotten rid of to make it happen.
Is there a Greg Anthony style player out there to share minutes with Blake at PG? Somebody find a guy who is 6-3 to 6-5 who can keep the quickest PGs in the league in front of him, rebound, not turn the ball over, and shoot 40% from 3 pt land and I will agree that a trade should be made.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
According to Jack & Telfair...
Greg Anthony was a total jerk to them. Not exactly the model of a mentoring veteran.
I just mention this as a way of pointing out that chemistry is a fragile thing. It’s RARE to find a group of guys who can compete with each other for minutes but in a constructive way. Our players all want, above all, to win. That’s not the rule in the NBA.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
To who and whom?
They were a few years after Anthony was a Blazer. Did you mean Damon?
I know Damon complained about Anthony, but I don’t like Damon’s game very much so I have little sympathy.
Your point is correct though— not all vets are wise sages who are willing to pass on the secrets of the game to the youngsters. They want minutes, shots, money, all that stuff normal players want. Ya gotta choose carefully when getting a dude like this…
Luckily for us, we all pretty much trust our front office to find that dude or not make the dumb move to get someone who APPEARS to be that way but isn’t.
Mortimer
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