Bayless: My New Flower
by Thack on Dec 31, 2008 4:14 PM PST
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Progress Report: Jerryd Bayless
28% field goal percentage, 1 of 3 from three-point range this season, 78% freethrow percentage, and half as many turnovers per game as points (imagine if Kobe suffered from this!).
Ouch – the boxscore doesn’t love you Jerryd, but I do.
First things first, I love to watch Jerryd Bayless play defense. Yes, he’s a little too hand-happy right now. The guy gets 7 minutes a game – I'd feel like every play needed to be a big one, too. I guarantee Nate laughs about it; having a freak athlete come in and frustrate the hell out of some crafty veterans is worth 2 fouls in 5 minutes. As he gains experience, he will learn how to better navigate around screens (he certainly has the athleticism to do so) and where to best place his hands. What’s impressive is that his athleticism has allowed him to firmly plant himself at the hip of every defensive assignment he’s had, including especially impressive performances against Baron Davis and Ray Allen. Look at how Jerryd’s hand is lodged into Allen’s wrist… I love it!
It’s all about cultivation. With Greg, I’m just about ready to slap him on the butt and say "you’re on your own, kid." I don’t mean anything about Greg’s evolution as a player; I mean emotionally. The training wheels are about ready to be taken off – the man is announcing and becoming himself at the same time. He showed last night that he doesn't need anybody feeling sorry for him.
But Bayless – now here’s a whole new flower that I get to watch blossom. You don’t combine the physical gifts, killer instinct, and extreme work ethic of Jerryd Bayless to produce a failure. And when you merge those attributes with a team-player, you produce a winner. Jerryd Bayless has shown me that he wants to be a winner.
As far as improving his game is concerned, all you can ask him to do right now is to pay attention to his shot selection. A rookie doesn’t just "improve" his shot selection like a veteran does; they’re still getting a feel for the game. You ask that they pay attention to it - recognize good and bad shots - and move on. Bayless hasn’t even amassed enough minutes to fill two full NBA games! Clearly he still has an extraordinary amount of growing ahead of him.
What’s more important is that he is buying into philosophy of doing what’s best for the team. He needs to let go of "what he does," and try to do whatever puts points on the board, again, for the team. From what I have seen, he has does an extraordinary job of letting himself be coached. The only ugly shots I’ve seen him take have been in times when it feels like our offense was stagnant (you can’t blame the guy for trying to create some offense for the team). He seems to genuinely be trying to run the offense. We even saw some Brandon plays run for him – high pick-and-pops with LaMarcus.
Oh boy, and aren’t you excited for it to happen? That stretch of games where he announces to the Blazer fans that he is going to be a serious contributor to this team… man it will be sweet. He may be a long way away; those kinds of stretches only happen when you get minutes. We should be mindful of timing, as right now we’re about to enter a period where we find out what the team looks like with Martell. The other, other, other rookie will get his minutes once we feel comfortable with the main pieces. But don’t worry – I don’t think Jerryd is going anywhere. Kevin Pritchard knows these players. There is no way he circles the boxscore every time Bayless goes 0 for 4 – he must see an already sensational kid who spends all of his time in the gym getting better.
So, maybe we won’t see him much this year. Maybe we’ll only see him as a defensive stopper on certain types of players, like Batum does. Or maybe we’ll see him a lot – I don’t know. I understand that we have other issues to sort through first, and eventually Jerryd Bayless will be given an opportunity to make a real name for himself in the NBA. When that time comes, I have no doubt that he will take advantage of the opportunity, and I could no be more excited to watch him do it.
P.S.
I do consider his performance in the Summer League a part of his NBA resume. It is true that you can't give it too much credit because he was just playing against the scrubs. However, if you are the Most Valuable Scrub, that says something. Beating up on all the reserves makes you good - the Summer League makes it difficult to say how good.
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I thik not playing Bayless is a genius move.
It’s going to make him hungry. In the meantime Sergio and Blake are doing an admirable job. Does anyone else get the feeling that one of those three is going to be traded before the deadline?
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 31, 2008 5:08 PM PST reply actions
I would bet
none of those three get traded
There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)
My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons
Ever?
Are we going to have a three PG rotation, not to mention Roy and Rudy?
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 31, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
stay pat
it’s not broken, I don’t think they will trade anyone this year who is in the rotation (RLEC and Shav excluded).
There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)
My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons
by johnv59 on Jan 1, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
You take a kid who’s already motivated with a good attitude, and put a chip on his shoulder. He sees the other guys playing 40 minutes a night for inferior teams and gets more and more furious that those teams had the gall to pass on him. He blames the whole league. He thinks about it when he’s the first guy to show up on the practice court and he thinks about it when he’s the last guy to leave.
Maybe this year, maybe next, he starts extracting his revenge. The league will be left in ruins.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
I don't really have that feeling..
However, if it does happen, my preference would be Sergio. Sergio isn’t going to give you nights like Blake gave us last night. And Bayless….is just too sweet to let go.
Bayless is our Christmas present
I have been a huge JBay fan since summer league, and particularly since I have heard about his attitude at practice. It is hard to imagine that a kid with that many physical tools and that much burning desire to excel is not going to become an extremely good player. The fact that his skills have the potential to complement BRoy so well is the icing on the cake.
I don’t know how soon he will arrive, but I feel confident that he will.
In KP and Nate, I trust. A starting five of Oden, LMA, Martell, Broy and JBay has me drooling. Give that a year, or two, to simmer, and it is hard to imagine that we won’t be one of the top two or three teams in the league.
by upper left corner on Dec 31, 2008 6:20 PM PST reply actions
Bayless arrive?
The only way Bayless can “arrive” is to play, and that means Sergio sits. The other option is to sit Blake. A “three point guard rotation” on this team means somebody is rotating their butt-cheeks on the bench. It won’t work long term unless you bring in a vet who doesn’t mind sitting. But why do that?
A point guard has to be moved in the off-season…period.
If I were guessing, Sergio is on the way out.
I like Sergio’s game, and I think there is a good chance that he will eventually become a better PG than Blake. However, IMO, his game with his limited shooting and limited ability to penetrate and finish is not a good fit with BRoy.
Trading Blake would be too disruptive. Blake despite his limitations, offensively and especially defensively, is critical to the Blazer’s current success.
JBay has too many tools and too much potential to trade away.
I hope KP agrees with me and I hope Sergio has success wherever he goes.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
direction
i think it depends on the direction this team wants to go…and lately it has been favoring tighter rotations instead of 2 separate units. if thats the case i see sergio going as well. i would think the sf+channing log jam would get cleared as well.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Bayless is happy now.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Dec 31, 2008 7:38 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
He *does* look happy!
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
It will be interesting.
The photo shows one reason Bayless is going to play – and that’s his right arm. He’s strong – which is why he can fight through picks and has that ability to be a defensive stopper.
We’ve known from the day of the draft why the Blazers reached hard for Bayless, and when you flip the #13 pick “and” Jack for the #11 and Bayless – you’ve clearly reached hard for him.
KP said then what is still the case. They were drafting to first find a fit for Roy. This meant they did not reach for Augustin, a pure pass first needs the ball in his hands point guard. They wanted a player that could 1) bring the ball up the court to lessen the load on Roy; 2) defend the other teams point guard effectively so that the 6’6" Roy could defend the other teams SG; and 3) could “share” the point guard duties in a 1/2 court offense. This means that for a portion of the game, the ball will be given to Brandon to run plays while the other guard switches to the shooting guard role. And Bayless was the one guard they saw that they thought could eventually play this kind of a position.
The dilemma, of course, is that eventually you have to play Bayless. He got some time against the Celtics because Brandon was out – but the reality is that Rudy is the 2nd team SG, Sergio is the 2nd team PG, and Bayless is the 5th guard. You can’t keep him in that spot forever. Right now we have about 12 minutes to 15 minutes a game available for what we call the 2nd team PG, and Sergio is getting that time. Like Bayless, however, he is too good to be a 5th guard who plays garbage time behind the other 4. One, eventually, will be traded. And I suspect it will be Sergio for the simple reason that Bayless appears to have the tools to be not only a combo guard to play with Roy, but in the case of injury, to provide effective minutes as a shooting guard opposite Blake if it comes to that. The only way Sergio appears to stay on the Blazers, is if Blake is traded and Sergio starts, or backs up Bayless. I doubt this will happen because the timing is wrong. It’s not likely that either Sergio or Bayless will be ready to start for the rest of this season, or the next – yet we have to expect that Bayless will start playing more in the interim.
The one other option, of course, is if the Blazers traded for an upgrade for the starting PG role, and then kept Bayless or Sergio permanently in the #2 PG role. However, effective starting PG’s are hard to find – and expensive. The only possibility I see is less a trade, than a situation where such a player decides to become a free agent, or goes into their last contract year without a contract – which forces as trade. However, when you’re 20 – 12, you have to admit that Blake must be doing some things right. So that unless it was a truly exceptional transaction, I can’t see the Blazers giving up very much for incremental improvements such as a Heinrich – for example. Sure, he might be a step up – but he may not be enough of a step up to give up very much for him – and the same is true of other PG’s that might be available. And that’s particularly true if you think that in a few years, you’ll have a better player like a Bayless ready to step up. It will be interesting.
by Eben Calder on Jan 1, 2009 5:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agree that Sergio is the likely "odd man out"
As I said in my comment just above, I think Sergio is likely to become a better PG than Blake, but he isn’t yet, and at his current skill level, he is not a good fit with BRoy. He has become a decent catch and shoot guy, but he is nowhere as consistent or as clutch as Blake. Sergio’s defense may be marginally better than Blake’s(debatable), but not enough to make up for the loss of Blake’s composure and toughness.
Blake seems essential in the short term, and JBay seems essential in the long term. If KP and Nate share this assessment, seems inevitable that Sergio will have to go.
It is kind of frustrating to speculate about JBay when we have seen so little of him on the court. I see all the tools necessary to be a very good complement for BRoy, but he has a long way to go. If he is as good as I think he will be, the Blazers would be crazy to trade him.
I also agree that trading for a marginal upgrade doesn’t make much sense to me. The price will be high and the potential disruption of chemistry should be a consideration. If we could bring in a high level veteran, that might get us to the elite level a little sooner than waiting for JBay, but I do not want to see us sacrifice our long term core or our depth for short term improvement.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
i think thats a good assessment
In a way I think Sergio kind of controls his own fate. At this current stage if nothing were to change, then ya he will be the odd man out. I don’t think Sergio needs to necessarily overtake Blake’s spot as the starter in order to stay, but he needs to improve to the point that he gives Blake a run for his money and buy time for Bayless to eventually take the helm. When we get our capspace this summer, there might even be a small chance we can pick up a solid upgrade in FA, or we might get some steals from teams wanting to set themselves up with capspace for 2010. I’ve always thought Blake was “adequate” for a strong playoff team, but if he continues to play the way he has been playing he might end up being the “answer” at PG…at least long enough for Bayless to come around.
With the way we are playing right now tho, I don’t really want to make trades for the sake of mixing things up. Chemistry is something you shouldn’t really mess with. I trust that KP will make the right decision, but I think any trade should be done only if it is heavily in our favor.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Mostly agreed.
In my mind, the best case scenario would be the one jscot outlines below. JBay goes straight to starting and Sergio stays with the second unit. However, I just don’t see that as realistic. Right now, Blake’s shooting and veteran poise are just too important to the team’s current success.
On the other hand, if Sergio could continue to improve his shooting and his ability to finish, we might be able to go into next season with Sergio and JBay. It strikes me as possible, but risky in the short run. This scenario would make more sense if Martell comes back strong and the team is able to count on him to fill some of Blake’s catch and shot role.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
its a long season
and so many things can happen…honestly there has been a ton of surprises on this team that were unexpected. i’m surprised that a veteran like blake could elevate his game to this level, throwing out a lot of my earlier assessments from this year. when i was thinking about the sergio giving blake for his money situation earlier this year, i was thinking about the calderon/tj ford situation of last year. i know i’m being a little too optimistic and sergio has a long ways to go before he is at calderons level.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
One other option
If Bayless moves into the starting role more quickly (next year), then it comes down to which is a better fit with the second unit, Sergio or Blake. I think Sergio might win that battle, even if Blake is still marginally ahead of him next year. I could see Steve being the odd man out, strange as it seems with his excellent play this year.
That is what I thought would happen before the year started, but Steve has surprised me with how well he is playing. I figured he would play well, and show marginal improvement on his 3 point shooting. But he’s become more aggressive offensively, a much better threat than last year. If only he had a little better lateral quickness. I’m not sure that can be improved.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 1, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If we move some bench players this summer
can you picture the end of the 2nd unit and a tighter 7 or 8 man rotation with spot minutes to the others? it seems like nate is already moving towards that (before brandon went out). if thats the case sergio might leave as well.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
I think if Blake would to be traded
it would send the wrong message throughout the organization. Sure its a business but why not reward a guy who is having a career year, loves portland, was traded and then came back, a PG that defers to Roy perfectly, Is clutch (besides the Clip game) and knows his limitations.
Plus he’s the only “vet” besides Przybilla on this team. I think Sergio goes… but hopefully Rudy won’t be discouraged
IKE MAKE YOUR DANG LAYUPS
by Blazerhopeful on Jan 1, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
your right
that it sends the wrong message, but KP did it to Fred Jones after he was willing to restructure his contract to help the team.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I think if the other guys surpass him
that everyone will be glad he was traded to a team where he gets a chance to play, rather than sit on the bench as a third stringer.
If he is traded as part of a deal to bring in an all-star like Devin Harris or something insane like that, no one would expect KP to pass up a deal like that.
He’s not untouchable.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
I think you want 2 units
for the regular season, with all those back to backs, and dealing with niggling injuries, etc.
I think you can get by ok with an 8-9 man rotation, but if you’ve got the depth, a second unit can be a great asset.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
I used to share this opinion......
…..but I think you are selling Blake a bit short and underestimating how long it will take for JBay to be ready.
Blake’s limitations are primarily physical. He doesn’t have the speed or strength to be a good penetrate or a good defender. However, he has done an amazing job of maximizing the things he can do. His shooting has been extremely important to the teams success so far. Particularly with Martell out, the Blazers would be in a world of hurt w/o Blake. He is a glue guy. Trading your glue guy is dangerous.
I do agree that Sergio is a better fit with the second unit because he is better in the open court and better with Rudy, but I think it is unlikely that JBay can go straight from the bench to starting. Maybe once Martell comes back and helps take some of Blake’s role spreading the floor. I suspect that Martell’s absence has really made it harder to get minutes for JBay. Because Nic is not ready on offense, and Trout plays a different kind of offensive game.
Do you guys think KP will try to resolve the PG logjam before the trading deadline with RLEC, or do you think he will wait till summer? On one hand, it would be good to wait to get a better idea about how Martell is doing and how Sergio and JBay are developing. On the other, it would be good to get JBay on the floor and start his learning process.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
good questions
KP has said he doesnt like making “big” moves before trade deadlines…and the only other time I’ve heard KP and Trades this year was when he said why would we trade when we are winning. Unless we get a trade that tips heavily in our favor I don’t think we will trade until the draft.
As far as our PGs go…I don’t know what direction Nate wants to go. For the past few weeks it looks like we are going away from the 2 separate units (notice how he doesn’t even use the terms Black and White teams anymore too?). Our starters – batum are getting a ton of minutes lately with Trout as well. If we were to go back to the 2 unit thing (which Nate has also said he’d like to limit brandon’s minutes which might indicate that we will), then I can see Bayless pretty much spending a short stint at the backup and moving straight to starter (down the road of course maybe without blake). If we were to tighten the rotation down…I think at that point bayless might spend more time as a backup. It all kinda depends on what is going to happen with that “2nd unit.”
As much as I like blake, I think we have too much depth for him to be playing as many minutes as he has over the past few weeks (granted we had no choice against boston). Ideally I’d like to see him more in the 27-32 range…but I guess since Rudy has been struggling with his shot as of late Blake has had to pick up the extra slack.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
How do you see Martell's return affecting the rotation?
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
he has been out for awhile
i’m hoping that he hasn’t lost all of the progress he was reported to have made in the off season. he started off 2007 with an incredibly strong start, but came back down to reality only to show flashes throughout the season. he is definitely going to have some rust after being out as long as he has been out…I just hope that he can recover from it and still have a productive season. as far as affecting the rotation, if things go according to plan i don’t think there will be much disruption at all. the reason batum was starting was to keep trout on the bench bc the white unit had a lot of continuity. if martell comes back i would expect they would ease him into the starting lineup by having him come off the bench the same way they eased greg. the individual roles should pretty much stay the same only you plug in martell for nic.
if nate starts limiting the starters minutes a bit more (brandon and blake have been playing a lot of minutes), i can see nic getting some regular spot minutes in meaningless situations like sergio last year. i really just hope martell comes back to form. he’s been called a bust so many times that i want him to succeed and prove the doubters wrong.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm certainly not selling Blake short
We can win a championship with him at the point. I said that when we first got him.
I don’t see Bayless taking the starting spot this year, but I have no idea what his real progression is, and probably no one outside the team knows, either.
Batum went straight from the bench to starting because Travis is a better fit with the second unit. If both our young PGs take major strides, we could see the same at the point.
I don’t see any major changes this year (sorry, Bayless fans). What we have is working well, and Bayless would not only have to surpass someone else, but do so by far enough to justify messing up on court chemistry. Not likely.
I agree that Martell’s return can change the dynamics, though. And you are also correct that potentially he could make Blake’s contributions less important. I think it actually makes it more likely that Blake’s spot-up shooting will be even more valuable — because if Martell can hit the 3 or drive to the hoop, then who will you leave open when you want to double Brandon or Greg?
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 2, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good points
I wrote a long comment below to Eben Calder titled “Chaos Theory and PGs” I think it is relevant to your comment.
by upper left corner on Jan 2, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
It all boils down to what you want out of your backup PG
In my opinion, Sergio is one of those high-risk, high-reward kinds of players: He can make some jaw dropping passes, but I cringe every time he heaves up a shot (even though his 3 point shot is now at least "respectable") and I don’t think he’s particularly complimentary to Brandon when the two share the court.
I like Steve because even though he’s not splashy and isn’t nearly as creative in the passing game, he protects possessions, and I actually pump my fist when hoists up a shot because I’m fairly confident it’s going to drop. Lastly I think he’s highly complimentary to Brandon being able to play off-guard in a pinch.
My guess is that Sergio will apartment shopping this summer in another city and the Blazers will eventually have a 4 guard rotation of Brandon, Bayless, Blake and Rudy, all 4 versatile enough to play in any combination with each other.
Of course all this could be blown up if KP goes out and gets aggressive before the trade deadline or in the off-season to trade for a true “elite” point guard, meaning it’s possible any guard aside from Brandon could be playing somewhere else.
I started reading this with your name off the bottom of the screen and I was all "You Go, Morty!"
………………………………..and I scroll down and it’s not Morty at all!!!
I rec you for your acumen.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
I can't wait till Bayless has an even decent performance
so I can stop feeling annoyed by all this talk about how certain it is that he is destined for greatness. The kid has shown us nothing on the NBA court so far. The plain fact is that nothing stood out about his performance against Boston except for the things he did badly (4! turnovers, 0-4 shooting), everything else he did (defense, passing) was average at the very best. and his turnovers were the worst kind, silly mistakes and pure lazy passing—they weren’t turnovers caused by him being aggressive and pushing the limits.
As, I’ve said many times, obviously the sample size is too small to conclude anything negative about his future potential, BUT at the same time there is nothing to point to in his performance to conclude anything good about his future either. Let’s wait till he shows us something on the court, in real game time, before we start appointing him the next great thing.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
by sergioFTW on Jan 1, 2009 9:25 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
everything has just been speculation
based on his “tools.” its funny how fans annointed Greg as the savior, then Batum as our answer at SF, Rudy as the next Ginobili, and now since Bayless is the next unknown entity, he’s the pg of the future. i think bayless will be good, but he hasn’t shown me on the court much other than potential. i’m just speculating that he will be good, but in the end he could be a bust as well. he hasnt had enough time, or shown us enough for anyone to label him as a bust, or the next great thing IMO. he can’t even crack the lineup at our weakest position, which isn’t meant to be a knock on him, but it does leave one to wonder why if he was our pg of the future why they don’t let him take his lumps now instead of next year.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
"He hasn't shown me much other than potential"
Uh… yeah. Exactly. That’s what this whole post is about – he is oozing potential and we can’t wait for him to get his lumps, as you put it. And I disagree that there is “nothing to point to in his performance to conclude anything good about his future.” I would say there is “nothing in the boxscore to conclude anything good about his future.” To be critical of his play after 2 games displays expectations that are WAY too high; all you can look at is his potential. And, clearly, we all agree that he has a lot of potential, so we’re all on the same page. If you’re not comfortable labeling him right now – that’s fine, but don’t argue that there is nothing to base an argument off of. There is PLENTY of evidence to make arguments for both a stud and a dud. Nobody seems to be arguing the latter…
In K.P. I trust.
there was quite a few people
that were saying he is performing “now” in one of the boston threads. i understand where its coming from since it was a big win and a large stint for bayless, but lets not let our homerism get the best of ourselves. i’m just coming from the perspective that although i see potential, i’m not going to be quick to annoint him the next big thing, since a lot can happen in the nba. his upside far outweighs his downside…but at the same time a lot of people have been overly optomistic.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
oozing with potential?
If so, where’s the leak at? Sure he played well against a bunch of bums in Summer League, but as a PTB I haven’t seen anything remoting potential out of Bayless. Certainly he’s a gifted player, but he’s been completely overwhelmed by NBA caliber talent. I worry it would be a significant step backwards to deal Sergio and give the role to Bayless.
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
by bow4meow on Jan 1, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
potential
in that his strengths match up pretty well with our needs and deficiencies. his skill set does compliment roy’s well…but whether he will pan out and realize his potential is unknown. since we haven’t seen anything from him yet…all he is is potential. he has made a lot of mistakes and has looked lost, but i think his mistakes are bc he is inexperienced and making rookie mistakes. i don’t think he will make the stupid mistakes a 3rd year guard would make over and over again like Jack. this is all just speculation tho since we haven’t really seen anything on the court to prove otherwise, but KP has had a good track record at evaluating talent, and until he proves us wrong I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
even KP not selling Sergio short so far and trading him prematurely is a testament to his expertise.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I was really, really psyched to see some more of him in the C’s game, but it was tough to watch.
I was nodding my head at some folks in my section that were yelling, “take him out!”
It was rough. He looked bad.
However, he needs playing time, with some playing time, and a side of playing time, with 2 scoops of playing time. Maybe, he’ll get some this month with some games that we might have a strong lead? Something. He’s gotta get some time in there, but not at the expense of W’s.
Boise?
would that really help him?
sure lets get him some pt so he doesn’t get too rusty, but i think he won’t really expand his game if he were to go to d league. itd just be a repeat of summer league.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
Wait I'm sorry
take him out and put in who? Sergio? Rudy? Both of our Spaniards whom I dearly love were playing WORSE then Bayless. What I liked about Bayless was his aggressiveness on defense and his ability to penetrate seemingly at will on one of the best defenses in the league. The rest is due to the fact that he has had virtually zero burn. Sergio got pretty extensive minutes during his rookie campaign and then earned splinters in his second year. He is now a significant rotation player and he has shown improvement. Sergiophiles just need to cut Bayless the kind of endless slack they cut Sergio.
When it comes to defense Bayless’ outings this year were light years better then many of Sergio’s similar minutes last year. On the other hand Bayless’ passing has been light years worse then Sergio’s last year. Lets just look at the facts he is a rookie with limited burn and we can’t say definitively one way or the other.
I’m going to start calling some of the Sergio fanatics the Spanish Inquisition for their fanatical devotion to Sergio!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Jan 1, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll agree
I thought Rudy had a bad shooting night, but by no means did he have a bad game. There has been countless times that Trout has had bad shooting nights but could not find another way to contribute…Rudy still came up big on the other end of the floor and made a crucial steal late in the game. I like both Sergio and Bayless, but it seems like to me that more of the Pro Bayless crowd are hating on Sergio rather than the other way around. Conversations about bayless involving anything but potential are kind of silly I think. We haven’t seen enough of him on the court to decide if he is definitely going to be good or bad. All we can see is potential.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
I totally agree
I’ve just seen so much support and slack given to Sergio by certain posters all last season when Surge was the #3 PG. Now this year those same folks shout down any mention of Bayless because they feel it threatens Sergio’s minutes. Just seems ridiculous to me.
Last year Sergio would have flashes of brilliance but definitely was heavy on potential and light on in game results. I just would like to see the same treatment for Bayless. I like Sergio by the way and see the guard situation as a real quandary cause I like them all!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Like rudy said in his first PDX interview
The name on the back of the jersey doesnt matter…its the one on the front that counts. As HARDCORE fans we sometimes overlook that. It’s not about one player outplaying another or rooting for your favorite player, but about the success of the team.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What?????
I have probably been as big a supporter of Bayless as anyone in this thread, or on this blog.
I don’t think I have ever stated anything that could be considered “hating” on Sergio. In a couple of posts above I said that I think it is likely that Sergio will eventually be better than Blake. But that is the future, today Sergio has a nice game for a back-up, but he also has real limitations. He is mediocre at catching and shooting, slightly worse at creating his own shot, and not yet able to penetrate and finish at the rim. His defense is about on par with Blake, but that isn’t very good.
He has improved a lot. His shooting is better, his defense is better and he has cut down on turnovers. However, at his current level of development, I don’t think he is a very good complement to BRoy and that is what matters most for are starting PG. Do you consider any of what I have said as “hating”? Do you disagree with my assessment?
I certainly agree that people can and do disagree substantially in their assessment of Bayless. After all we haven’t seen that much so it requires more projection. Frankly, some of the harsh assessments in this thread are pretty astonishing to me. People saying that he looks “awful”, “bad”, etc. As I said earlier, I went back and watched the game a second time this morning and focused on Bayless. He is strong, and fast, and athletic. He fought through screens. He got tagged for at least two turnovers when teammates failed to catch crisp, hard passes. I just see it very differently. Time will tell.
All that being said, I find your statement that most of the negativity is coming from the Bayless side demonstrably wrong.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
I’ve also been a big Bayless supporter, and I’ve not been hating on Sergio.
One person has, and he even agreed with sergioFTW last week. I marked it on my calendar, but that calendar got thrown away.
Everyone who says we haven’t seen Bayless play in the NBA is right. You can make neither a positive nor negative assessment based on his NBA play — it hasn’t happened. Anyone who tries to claim they can is just blowing smoke.
Does that mean he doesn’t have tremendous potential? Hmm.
I knew Magic Johnson would be good before he ever played in the NBA. I knew Rudy would be good before he ever played in the league. And Rose. And Mayo. And Drexler. Etc, etc, etc.
You don’t have to see a player play in the NBA to know whether or not he has loads of potential. You have to see him play in the league to know whether he is good enough to be effective in the league right now.
Since Nate is seeing him in practice every day, Nate’s decisions are probably the best data point. They tell us that Bayless is not ready right now to contribute more than Blake or Sergio. They also tell us that, in isolated circumstances, Nate thinks he brings something to the game right now that the others can’t provide, and he’s found a few situations where that makes it worth putting Jerryd in the game.
That tells us more than pages of speculation about where Jerryd is right now. But it doesn’t say squat about his potential.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
I hate the jumpshots, not the jumpshooter...
I’ve also been a big Bayless supporter, and I’ve not been hating on Sergio.
One person has, and he even agreed with sergioFTW last week. I marked it on my calendar, but that calendar got thrown away.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
Not Boise
Who coaches him in Boise? He should stay here and hang out with Nate. – Elgin
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
Right! But who coaches him there?
and how can it be better than hanging around with Blake, Sergio, and Nate?
I think it’s a no brainer. He’s gotta stay here and learn, rather than just go down to Boise and just play, and not learn. – Elgin
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
Watch closer
Look, I’m not saying Bayless is better than Sergio right now, much less Blake. He’s not.
But if you watched the Celtics game and came away with the impression he should be in Boise?
Watch more closely. That’s simplistic analysis, at best.
He had two pretty ugly turnovers, yes. (Four total.) That’s nerves. He’s getting his first significant minutes, and it just so happens to be against the world champs.
The nerves are temporary. The explosive athleticism, toughness, speed, attitude? That has staying power.
The analogy I like to use is that Bayless is a guy who just bought a new Ferrari. He’s spinning the wheels, grinding the gears, fishtailing around curves. But watching him clumsily drive around the neighborhood, you can still tell it’s a Ferrari. It’s got an engine, handles, acceleration, power, etc. that other cars (which are running more smoothly right now) just don’t have.
And when he learns how to drive that thing… watch the &$%# out.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Jan 2, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
That's a great analogy. rec
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
It's so obvious to some of us...
others don’t seem to be so sure. In any case, I dig the analogy as well.
In K.P. I trust.
Very nice. A new addition to Blazers screen saver collection.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Insert "my" between "to" and "Blazers".
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
The original Bayless picture I used is also nice in case you missed it during your travels
That was from the first Boston game. Somehow Nate feels most comfortable playing him against the champions :)
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/12/6/683536/kg-barking-at-bayless#10493885
Thanks Norsky. I added it to the collection.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
definitely testing the fences for weaknesses
great sig file BlazerAddict. – Elgin
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
by 22baylor on Jan 2, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
"Tools" and "attitude" are what matter most in predicting player development. Skill level is secondary
GO looked like crap at the beginning of the season, but anyone who has followed his career wasn’t really worried. GO has amazing tools. He also is a very hard worker and a very competitive guy. It was pretty obvious that he was pressing, and recovering, and thinking too much. You could tell that when he got his speed, spring, and stamina he was going to be OK.
The same thing is true for Bayless. We saw enough in Summer League to know that the kid has outstanding athleticism. We also know that his work ethic, intelligence, and commitment to excellence are off the chart. He, too, is trying a bit too hard, but his eventual success is easy to predict.
Most of the doubters are Sergio fans with an axe to grind. Their bias blinds them to the tools and makes them fixate on mistakes.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Or, that many of the people
who like Sergio and listened to him get ripped all last year think it’s ridiculous how people were so quick to throw him under the bus while every time Bayless sees any minutes, he gets a glowing fan post about him, regardless of whether he played well, while Sergio would get the Jarrett Jack treatment all last year.
Bayless certainly looks good through Bayless-tinted glasses, just like Sergio looks good through Sergio-tinted glasses. Jerryd made a couple decent plays in the Boston game and kept everything going, but he also made some Jack-esque turnovers. That one pass up top where he was trying to feed Aldridge was a lazy telegraphed pass that you can’t blame on anyone but him. Given that he was mostly playing the 2 guard when he was in, 4 turnovers in 16 minutes isn’t something to write home about, especially when he was shooting 0-4 for the night. For all the talk of his “already superior” defense, he didn’t stand out there last game, either.
That being said, he showed he can do some things well last game. He finally showed an ability to get to the rim outside of summer league, and he didn’t make any rookie defensive mistakes like missing a rotation or doubling when he shouldn’t have, so that’s a good sign. He’s definitely bringing an enthusiasm to cheering for his teammates, also, which is good, especially for Greg, but, objectively, that’s all you can say he’s done. Even given the small sample size, 28% is a ridiculous shooting percentage. You can’t dog Sergio last year for being a horrible shot and then give Bayless a pass on it indefinitely throughout the year.
Anyone who watches the games with an unbiased eye can see that while Bayless can do some things that Sergio can’t, Sergio does things that Bayless can’t as well, so the road goes both ways. You can extrapolate about ahtleticism all you want, but no one would want Stro Swift over Duncan, or Iguodala over Roy, so it only gets you so far. Bayless needs time, but just because fans want him to be something based on summer league doesn’t mean he’s there yet. Just like a couple Trout game winners last year didn’t make him Michael Jordan and a couple Oden injuries doesn’t make him Sam Bowie, Bayless playing one decent game against Boston doesn’t make him Kevin Johnson and turn Sergio into Telfair, either.
by Royster on Jan 1, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
One of those turnovers
was a good pass that Outlaw flat out dropped, if I remember correctly. One was the lazy jump pass, one was a very rookie-like travel… and I don’t remember the fourth.
Bottom line, Bayless has a few strengths that already have shown up. H ran the fastbreak with Aldridge exceptionally, something that is crucial playing with Roy.
We can’t analyze the 28% shooting. The sample size isn’t small, it’s microscopic.
I think the best option is both Sergio and Bayless. They are terrific complements to each other… I hope we can manage to keep both.
Regardless of what the turnovers were,
they get scored the same way for every guy. You could do the same thing parsing through all of Sergio’s turnovers, and he’d probably have only about 75% of his current total when you subtract out guys not catching the ball or cutting hard enough, in which case his A/TO ratio would be pretty ridiculous.
Like I said, Bayless looked good at times, and showed a couple decent plays, but nothing that stood out more than a fairly typical day from Sergio or Blake. Given that plenty of people have seen a Sergio/Blake stat line of 0-4, 2 assists and 4 TO’s and said they’re worthless and need to be traded, regardless of how they affected the game, it’s ridiculous that a lot of those same people calling for Sergio’s head make that extra bit of analysis for Bayless. I’m not saying that’s not a good thing, just that it’d be nice to see an even handed approach like this to all of our players, including Sergio AND Bayless, rather than the knee jerk reactions of “Trout is stupid, he needs to be traded”, or “Bayless is superior in all aspects of the game to Blake and Sergio, trade them for nothing”.
the pass that Outlaw 'dropped'
was a terrible pass, hence the scorer giving the TO to Bayless. The pass was way too hard and completely off the mark—it hit Travis’ hands, yes, but only when they were completely extended to his left side. That’s not how to hit a teammate who has spotted up for a 3.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
No, no, no
I went and looked at the DVR of the game and watched that pass in slow mo. It was crisp and hard and on the money. Outlaw wasn’t paying attention and failed to react in time.
There was another “turnover” charged to Bayless on another crisp, hard pass that Bayless made while driving to the hoop. I don’t think his teammates are used to these kinds of passes they are not something you see much from Blake or Sergio. A few more reps and these will be fine. Bayless probable needs to take just a bit off of those passes but no doubt he is concerned about tips.
by upper left corner on Jan 2, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
I watched live in person and on HD DVR last night.
if you think that is an “on the money” pass, then no wonder you like Bayless so much. The pass should be right to Outlaw’s chest, and that is about 2 feet from where it was.
also, your recollection about his other turnover shows you could use watching that dvr game again. Bayless had 4 turnovers, and only one was a ‘missed’ pass variety:
1: “missed” pass to Outlaw, ball out-of-bounds
2: travel call for starting moving and moving pivot foot before dribbling
3: lazy pass to top of key picked off by Boston
4: lazy pass to wing picked off by Boston.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
if we can rewind the clock
and it was sergio and bayless i’d be totally cool. i like both guys but they still have a lot of bumps left in the road till the reach their destination. its going to be hard to develop 2 guys. i agree that they do complement each other tho.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Stop judging him like he has been playing in the NBA for months...
I would just like this discussion to recognize that although we have been watching him in and out of games for months, Jerryd Bayless has played 85 minutes this season. We’re tempted to judge him like he has been terrible for months, but he has only gained 2 games worth of experience. All you have to do is look at how many 20-minute segments of Greg it took, and now we are just beginning to really see him open up a bit. Holding Jerryd’s statistics against him is a tragedy because the sample size is just too small, and he is too inexperienced. This isn’t fantasy basketball – this is recognizing what he will contribute to this team once he gets more experience in the NBA.
In K.P. I trust.
i think your responding
to the wrong post/person. i havent seen enough of jerryd to make an honest opinion of him other than i think he’ll be good in the future. i’ve reiterated this many times.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
My apologies, I was not responding to you directly...
I didn’t mean to point that at you; it was a general statement to the thread since there was sporadic talk of the statistics. Still getting used to this whole blogging thing…
In K.P. I trust.
fyi
blogging is sorta what ben/dave does…and to a small extent the “fan posts.” we are just discussing/commenting is all we are doing.
the layout of the conversations can get confusing…i think its hard to find the indented posts to see who is talking to who sometimes…but if you want to start a general comment, scroll to the bottom and post it, rather than click reply on a persons post. hope that helps.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
I don't think anyone would claim
that we’ve seen enough of Bayless to judge him. My point was, the celtics game was by far the best Jerryd has looked, and it was still a day that people would jump on Sergio/Blake for and sound the panic/trade bells. Of course, he gets leeway there given his rookie status and his lack of NBA burn, but excuses aside, that would still indicate that Jerryd right now, isn’t better than those guys and so would sacrifice some chances of winning in the short term. Personally, I don’t see that as being refutable.
Now, that being said, we have some precedent already this year for giving guys PT solely to help develop them when other people are playing better (Oden/Pryz), and it’s pretty obvious that if we can develop Bayless to his theoretical potential, that’d be in the best interest of the franchise long-term, but it’s a trade-off between that, and winning in the short term. If it were me, I’d probably cut back Blake and Roy’s minutes a little (Roy just to not wear him down), and play Bayless more (say Roy down to ~35 and Blake to about 20-22, frees up about 10 mpg for Jerryd) since we’re not going to win the title this year, but I also understand the need to win now and gain some playoff experience, so I can’t fault Nate. Playing the game is about getting W’s, after all.
by Royster on Jan 1, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i would like to see blakes minutes shortened too
but Nate isn’t just winning for the team to get playoff exp…hes trying to keep his job as well. i would think that whichever western team does not make the playoffs will have a new coach by next season.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on which team
and how many they win. Nate won’t be penalized for a 49-50 win season that finishes 9th. Neither will Jerry Sloan (they’ve had too many injuries). In my dreams, L.A. implodes, misses out, and Phil gets the chop.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Yes, but I don´t think it´s his job here what he´s thinking about.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Bayless can get to the rim, but can he finish?
Bayless blew a layup. He passed into LMA’s body rather than his hands on that fast break. His defense was active, but foul-prone. He contributed electric energy, and alot of static, too.
He obviously needs more time playing beside the starters and super-subs, and them him (Outlaw is such a dork). He also needs to find out exactly what does and does not work at the highest level of basketball, and find his groove.
The answer is — big obvs — Bayless can finish. He just needs to get used to real NBA game speed. Myself, I can’t imagine me doing that. Must be a challenge for anybody.
honestly
i don’t think sergio fans are so much anti bayless as they were anti jack. sergio fans were anti jack bc Nate gave jack so much slack but him a short leash. at least i’m one who is pro sergio and bayless.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
player development
i honestly don’t know what is a good indicator of player development…but when you are referring to tools are you meaning physical aspects only? if thats the case then wouldn’t only athletic motivated people develop into good nba players?
gregs overbearing strength has always made up for the lacking parts of his game, but as a pg i would think you would need a little more finesse to the point that pure athleticism cannot make up for lack of skills. i’m not sure either way what makes a player develop or not, but i do know that guys like AI or Sheed didn’t have the strongest work ethics, and they turned out pretty well.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
With young players
skills can still be developed, if they have the athleticism, the motivation, and the humility to be willing to learn.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Thats a tid bit oversimplified...
So anyone with nba athleticism just has to have the motivation and desire to learn to develop into a legit nba player? Sure skills can be developed, but for more players than not, it isn’t that simple.
RUDY > MJ
"With young players"
I just wanted to reiterate jscot’s title.
And, actually, usually a lack of motivation and desire to learn are exactly what prevent players from developing. In J-Bay’s case, it IS simple enough to say that the skills will develop – he’s an abnormally motivated ROOKIE. Whether you agree or not is a whole separate case…
In K.P. I trust.
Given your screen name, it is a bit funny hearing you run down JBay's game....
Give me a break! Are we supposed to take your comment as an objective assessment?
I mean you certainly have a right to your opinion as much as anyone else around here, but it doesn’t strike me as a coincidence that the most negative assessments of JBay’s play come from the biggest Sergio supporters. At least be straight about your bias.
I re-watched the Boston game this morning and focused my attention on the three PGs. Blake was beaten off the dribble by Rondo repeatedly, Sergio was beaten at least four times. Bayless twice, and Bayless plays much tighter and puts far more pressure on the ball. Two of the four turnovers charges to Bayless were on passes where his teammates were not ready for hard passes from JBay. The passes were on the money, and I was surprised that Bayless was charged with the TO. His play was much better in the second half after he sttled down a little bit. The kid is clearly pressing because he wants to please. Statistically he has not played well, but anyone who is the least bit objective can see the strength, speed, and intensity that he brings to the game.
by upper left corner on Jan 1, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
in all fairness
he’s not writing off bayless…hes just saying that people some come back to reality a bit. he even stated that with his sample size its too early to conclude anything…and that should apply to both negative or positive conclusions.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
thank you
i thought i made it obvious and specifically said that the small sample size didn’t indicate anything bad, but i guess it is hard for some people to think i’m being objective.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
i know how you feel
i was getting attacked when i was only part way complimenting bayless.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
We think a lot alike
You really need to consider counseling
by southern oregon on Jan 1, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
can we get a discount if we go together?
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
My shrink lives next door from Tom
And he is busy
by southern oregon on Jan 1, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe I should ask Frye
The guy seems a bit down on himself lately.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
Philthy.....
I’m always defending Baylessorus’ to you. You got it in for him!
On a seperate note: Bayless was quoted in the Oregonian this week that he thought DATA from StarTrek was way too emotional……
Dan in Troutdale (US American)
KP on 2008 draft, "They've shown extraordinary intelligence, even problem-solving. Especially the big one. We bred eight originally, but when Jerryd came in he took over the pride and killed all but two of the others. That one... when he looks at you, you can tell he's working things out."
by Here come the men in black on Jan 6, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
unrek
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
Given you are admittedly one of the biggest Bayless supporters on here...
Are we supposed to take your comment as an objective assessment?
RUDY > MJ
I'm just guessing,.....
……but I think most readers get my point. It is no coincidence that the harshest assessments of JBay’s potential and performance tend to be those who are Sergio’s biggest fan’s.
I have no real ax to grind. You can look at my posts all the way back to last season; I have been a bit of an agnostic on Sergio. I love his creativity and his flair. I have said I think he will ultimately be a more complete player than Blake. However, my honest assessment is that at his current level of development, he is not a good fit for BRoy.
I have no reason to support Bayless other than that I look at his game and his attitude and I think he is going to be good and that his “tools” suggest that he will be an excellent fit with BRoy. My only reason for supporting him is because I think he will be good for the team. Not that I dislike any other player or have any hidden agenda.
I am not saying that I am any more or less objective. I do think I am being more direct about where I am coming from and why.
by upper left corner on Jan 3, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Woah! Touched a nerve I guess.
I agree that fans are generally over-optimistic about players that don’t see the court that much, but that’s part of the fun of being a fan. I just hate the despair and vitriol that comes out when the player fails to meet our wildest expectations, but maybe that’s part of being a fan too.
What I love about that photo is the refs face!
Lots of potential
I watched his summer league play and he looked like a quicker faster B-Roy. Sure it was against summer league defense but I’m sticking to my assesment. Can’t teach that kind of speed.
Also, though he had difficulty playing the point he showed he could at times be a great passer.
The Blazers have always had pet players that they have hyped to the masses that proved to be average. Telfair, Jack, and what was his name.
But the Bayless kid I think is going to be better than those three.
God forbid if Sergio and Blake when down at the same time. (not like its sounds) I Could see it takeing three games before he was the talk of the league .
That my story and I’m sticking to it.
+1
Bayless looks to me like one of the fastest guys in the league. Take it from someone who watches Lebron play every night. Bayless has that sixth (or seventh) gear that hardly anybody in the league has. I bet he would’ve been ridiculous as a WR.
Sergio is one of the best passers in the league, Bayless is one of the most athletic guys at point (or hoping to be), and Blake is one of the best shooters. Maybe we can cross-pollinate them, or something. It would be like Stockton meets Isiah.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
If they are all one trick ponies
lets just keep em all and use them situationally. As much as I like Sergio, I think right now is the situation to play bayless more and sergio less. Once brandon gets back and we go with 2 separate units again, then we go back to Sergio.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 2, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
I know this may seem outrageous, but...
Just thinking forward to friday’s game against the hornets and how much trouble Blake and Sergio will likely have trying to guard Chris Paul. Does anyone see this as a good matchup for bayless? His quickness would likely allow him to contain Paul much more effectively than our other point guard options.
actually
CP3 is a tough matchup for anyone…but Blake and Sergio played really well against CP3 last game. I think that was the game that Nate complimented Sergio’s defense while being interviewed. They held them to 16 points and 6 assists while forcing 5 TOs. He averages 20 points normally 12 assists and less than 3 TOs a game. Overall I think Bayless could slow CP3 down, but then again Tony Parker is really quick and could not contain him.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Nate's decision
To win or to develop. That is the question. Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of errant passes leading to teeth-grinding turnovers OR should we try to win. Trade steady Blake who nearly singlehandedly kept us in the Celtics game the first half? I think he wants to win more than develop, but it is an art.
Ya gotta win AND develop...
For now that means figuring out how to get Rex in there for 6 minutes a night to make sure he stops urinating down his leg when he comes in. Pretty much half of his copious turnovers this year are rookie jitters, which won’t go away if he gets tossed in for 3 minutes every 5 games… Rex needs a stint EVERY GAME, even if it’s just a short one.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Jan 1, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with timbo
now we’re even. ;)
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
This may be a good stretch to rest Roy, since he seems to be hurting
and let Bayless get some minutes.
although i agree
its a lot easier said than done. you need to be playing .600 ball just to be in the top 8 this year so far. thats a lot to ask of any team and then you add in trying to develop 3 or 4 rookies and a team full of inexperienced players.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
Debate On.
And the debate, which isn’t really a debate, goes on. A third year player starts in front of a 1st year player, which is pretty standard fair in the NBA. The first year player was well thought of coming out of one year of college ball, so we debate where he’ll be in a year or two. Unfortunately for him (or fortunately), he fell to a deeper team than the other top draft choices, so he isn’t getting the minutes they are. And, because we are winning – but most of our wins are close ones, it’s hard to get the first year player on the floor because the game is still on the line. At the same time, the first year player has to compete with the fact that we have three other first year players being integrated into the lineup. And this likely makes Mac even more reluctant to try to develop a fourth right now. Add to this the fact that Roy, Aldridge, Webster, Sergio, Frye and Diogu are all third year players, and it gets tougher still.
But – he seems to be handling it pretty well. You have to know, after all, that having played with and/or performed well against the other top draft picks, that he’s chomping at the bit to play. Because in his mind he believes that he is as good as they are.
Sergio’s natural progression is to eventually become a starting PG, just as Bayless’s natural next step would be to become a second team PG. The simple fact is, that neither are Rose or Paul. If they were, there’d be no Blake. But they aren’t, which tells us that both have to improve. Will they? Debate on.
by Eben Calder on Jan 2, 2009 5:13 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
lol, rekt for truthyness
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
Chaos theory and PGs
The status-quo is probably not stable.
In a perfect world the Blazers could wait indefinitely to develop talent and make personnel decisions. The world is not perfect. The team needs to decide on a strategy for RLEC, and the team is unlikely to be able to keep all 3 PGs happy for another season. That means decisions need to be made about whether to try to bring in a vet or which two of the three PGs to keep.
This reality forces folks to discuss and argue about what the team needs and which of our guys best fit the bill. Some prioritize experience and shooting (Blake); some prioritize passing and ability to push the pace (Sergio); and some, like me, are intrigued by the athleticism and potential scoring ability of JBay.
It is kind of silly to have a debate when we haven’t seen enough of JBay to draw any reliable conclusions, but the debate will continue because of the pressure to make decisions. Clearly, Nate feels more comfortable with Blake and Sergio, and that is probably the right decision in terms of winning games this season, but it may not be the best decision for the long term success of the team. We don’t know what KP and Nate are seeing in practice or how they assess the players and the needs of the team.
Personally, I think the team has a lot on its plate. There are already three rookies in the rotation and a bunch of third years who are still developing. This reality may have as much to do with Bayless not getting much playing time as his level of readiness. GO is the #1 pick who is making a huge transition/recovery and he has to play. Martell’s injury made it necessary for Batum to play, and the rotation made it logical to give him those minutes with the starting five. Rudy is a far more established professional, and Martell’s injury also means more minutes for him.
The team can only cope with a certain amount of change without breaking down and creating confusion. Nate is a very structured guy; he hates mistakes. He probably can’t cope with any more rookie mistakes. In addition, Martell’s absence makes strong catching and shooting absolutely essential for whoever is playing PG. Blake is obviously the best at this facet of the game. Perhaps when and if Martell returns to full strength, Nate can afford to not have Blake’s shooting on the court. If so, he may be able to experiment with JBay on the floor with BRoy. After all, what we need above everything else is a PG who complements our superstar.
by upper left corner on Jan 2, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
Nate
Nate also has pressure to win now…if he doesn’t produce a play off team sooner or later he may not be here when bayless comes around. I don’t think hes all that comfortable playing Sergio either.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 2, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
I would add to this
that, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to develop Oden/LMA if your offense is being run by a rookie PG making rookie mistakes. You really want someone steady running the offense in that situation.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Good point.
The Blazers have a lot on their plate.
by upper left corner on Jan 3, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
Geez--although I liked Jack, it was SUCH a relief when he got traded...
…because that meant no more “Jack vs Sergio” posts. Now we have deja vu with “Bayless vs Sergio.” Come on, guys; doesn’t this ever get old to you?
Sure, it’s interesting to speculate about what the Blazers will eventually elect to do about the talent log-jam at the point—as well as the other one at the three (Martell, Travis, and Batum). But why does it have to be so adversarial? These are problems teams LOVE to have—too much talent. And time will eventually make KP’s decision-making easier. Vets get injured and young reserves get their chance to show what they can do. Chemistry develops—or doesn’t. The guys who are eventually traded aren’t sent to the gallows. They move on to other NBA teams where they have new and often better opportunities to further their (lucrative) careers. We can still follow and root for them from afar.
Bayless got enough burn vs the Celtics to remind us of his potential as well as to demonstrate why he’s not going to get regular minutes until a regular is injured. Because Bayless can play either the point or the two, that opportunity will almost certainly come at some time this season. He’s lucky in that respect; not all rookies on good teams get minutes at all.
So while we’re waiting for the opportunity to make an intelligent assessment of Bayless’ abilities and to make an educated guess at his future with the Blazers, maybe we can refrain from trashing him, Sergio, Blake, or anyone else on the current squad. They’re all Portland Trailblazers—you know, the team this site is supposed to celebrate.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Jan 2, 2009 5:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I go on with my signature.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Jan 2, 2009 8:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I can't wait to see how many people's opinions change
The first time Bayless drives baseline and dunks in somebody’s grill. He did it in pre-season, but it wasn’t on tv. I listened to it on the radio and it sounded pretty naaaasty as Wheels says.
Sure that’s not all there is to being a great player in the NBA, but you won’t see Sergio doing it, that’s for sure. Jerryd also has shown a nice jumpshot, which doesn’t change from summer league to pre-season to regular season as far as I know. And he is already a tenacious defender.
Btw, I’m not hardcore anti-Sergio despite my reference to him.
your also unlikely to see bayless
make a sweet no look behind the back pass on a fast brake either, among other things
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
potential potential potential...
I’m gonna go and pluck your flower !!!
aye. :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Bayless made the most of it?
I really liked Bayless in summer league, and I was really excited when we drafted him.
I have to say though, I have not been as impressed as I hoped to be after these last two games he played with B-roy out. He has gotten some minutes finally, and I would like to know if anyone has seen what they hoped or expected to see. I thought I would see a little more.
Sergio hasn’t been great either. In the Boston game Blake was good, but he was not so good in the N.O. game. It would have been a great chance for Bayless to really show his stuff. I feel like I keep waiting for Bayless to cut loose and he either can’t or won’t.
It isn't a light switch, players can't just turn it on....
It is unrealistic to expect the kid to wow you with outstanding stats in his first couple of games getting more than 5 minutes of garbage time. He showed excellent lateral quickness, he showed the strength to fight through picks and to defend a 6’10" player. He showed he can penetrate into the key. Contrary to those who think he is shoot first, he should he is trying to fit into the flow of the teams offense and made some pretty nice passes and racked up a couple of nice assists. He needs to settle down a bit in order to shoot better and finish his drives more consistently. But the potential was on display.
What did you see or not see that concerned you?
by upper left corner on Jan 3, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
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