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Today's Poll - Trade for Jamison?

If there's a quality veteran player on a team that's off to a terrible start who best fits the Blazers' needs and culture, it might be the Wizards' Antawn Jamison. 

The upsides to Jamison are his scoring ability, his glasswork, and his reputation as a hardworker.  The downsides to Jamison are that his contract runs this year plus three more, he can be a little bit of a black hole, and his first name is spelled incorrectly. 

At this point in his career, after making the playoffs for five straight seasons, he would seem to be ultra-motivated by an opportunity to play for a team competing for a title. His contract, roughly 9 million this year, is more than fair for his production (~20 and 10 in 38 minutes a night).  His current team, the Wizards, are off to a terrible start and just fired their coach, so rebuilding with young talent makes a lot of sense.

Put all of that together and it's fair to think that Jamison is probably somewhere on KP and TP's hit list.  Obviously any trade for Jamison would involve sending out players that would help clear up the logjam at the 3/4.

Armchair GM, I put the question to you.  Yea, Nah, or Ehh for Antawn?  Discuss in the comments.

-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)

Poll
Antawn Jamison...
makes a lot of sense for us. PURSUE.
186 votes
is a nice player but we are straight ballin' right now. WAIT AND SEE.
846 votes
is not a point guard and/or has deficiencies that I will explain in the comments. DO NOT WANT.
290 votes
is not currently a Blazer and therefore is not on my radar. NO TRADES!
434 votes

1756 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 161 comments

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Comments

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I wanted Jamison a few years back...

but he does not play defense. Secondly, he is much more of a PF than a SF.

by Salem Stephen on Dec 3, 2008 11:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Please!

Have you really watched Gilbert play? He’s high on the list of guys we never want on this team.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

scroll down and read the exchange with the wizards bloggers … prada and jakethesnake

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A 32 year old player without a position who is still owed 13 million dollars per year for the next 4 years

Pass. He’s a scorer and nothing else. We don’t need that. Especially a scorer that can’t shoot the 3. Hideous idea. There are plenty of players that do fit and Jamison is the guy named? Troublesome…

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I chose the third option

but only for the first clause—that he is not a point guard. He is and excellent player, but would not quite fit, I think, and is not our greatest need.

by TimG on Dec 3, 2008 11:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

For all of you wait & see ers and those who want him:

Who are you thinking of moving?
RLEC?
Outlaw?
Frye?
Webster?
Batum?
Ike?
Shavilik?

Will he sit behind LMA?
Will he push Batum/Web/Law futher onto the bench? (or off of it if they are traded).

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 11:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but

I’ve gotta if there is some reason I should be for this that I am not thinking of.

A guy who doesn’t play strong D at PF but can rebound and score inside sounds like someone we traded a few years ago who wouldn’t at all work with what we’ve got. Maybe he has a good b-ball attitude, but most with a good attitude play D because they know it helps the whole team.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

b/c each of us,

whether we admit it or not, has a bit of “Trader Bob” lurking inside!!

by hotstuffdb22 on Dec 3, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I admit it

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Dec 3, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that I may be one of the few exceptions to your otherwise fairly accurate statement...

I am a complete homer. I am one of those guys that thinks anybody in a Blazer Jersey is automatically the best. I steadfastly hold to this belief in spite of any evidence to the contrary. My Rose Garden colored glasses protect me from any influence that might give me reason to doubt. I recently had to completely swear off of even visiting trade FanPost because all I did was drive other BEdger nuts with my constant refusal to believe that any trade was any thing other than pure blasphemy.

I am the the Quintessential Anti Trader Bob!

Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
It is Official! LMA is BACK!!!
39:33 Mins 11-19 FGs 5-5 FTs +23 3 Off 4 Rebs 2 Stl 1 Blk 27 Points! - LMA vs Det 11-30-08

by LaMarvelous on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aw shucks - Thanks!

Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
It is Official! LMA is BACK!!!
39:33 Mins 11-19 FGs 5-5 FTs +23 3 Off 4 Rebs 2 Stl 1 Blk 27 Points! - LMA vs Det 11-30-08

by LaMarvelous on Dec 3, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd trade

If I saw a good trade, but we got rid of everyone I was unhappy with.

I’m actually very happy with the team and the people complaining about Frye should get a reality check on the tenth person in the rotation.

Our point guards are doing fantastic. Batum has been a nice surprise and webster is coming back (hopefully he’ll be as good as he was before the long vacation) and the blazers look pretty sweet. My only complaint is actually LMA and I know he’ll eventually fix that. Too much work ethic to not. Oden is raw, but that was expected pre blazers hype. When he shakes the raw… holy cow he’s going to be good.

so… yeah… not feeling the trading need except to consolidate talent and get some veteran experience. I just don’t see how we’d consolidate or where it would fit.

Greg Oden, where posters happen.

by ratbastird on Dec 3, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

a reality check

on the tenth person in the rotation.

Hear hear! – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sounds pretty good

if we could get jamison and possibly someone else for RLEC outlaw or martell and someone like sergio or frye, this would be an awesome deal. Jamison would be very motivated to be able to win some games, and he can shoot, rebound, the guy would make our team very legit, as long as he can buckle down on D, if there’s one thing that nate has shown, you can get no playing time on this team without at least a solid effort on D.

by StocktonNEP on Dec 3, 2008 11:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

His biggest problem

he’s 32. Doesn’t fit our timetable.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Dec 3, 2008 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Way too much emphasis gets put on time table.

There is no reason Pritchard can’t stick to his long term plan and yet do some retooling around the edges to move the"time table" forward.

The more I think about it, the more I hate that term. Starting this season, every year is a potential championship season. The (heck) with this time table bull pucky. (Dave, as a former sailor, I can’t begin to tell you how unsatisfying that is. But rules are rules and based on what I see on a lot of other sites, I think this particular rule is one of the reasons BE is so good.)

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right on

The timetable doesn’t change if we do a 3 for 1. If one older player comes in, it doesn’t change the overall time table. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can he and did he ever consistently play small forward?

I like him, but I fear he doubles LMA’s position more than Outlaw, and he is too good and expensive at this age to play as a backup. If the Blazers would be convinced he could start as a three and it’s not just an experiment, that would be an interesting pickup if we don’t have to give up one of our main guys.

Trades: RLEC + Outlaw for Jamison + Songaila might work, but it’s likely not enough (and they would not put the younger Blatche in there instead of Songaila). If we add Frye, the deal would only work if we take Etan Thomas back instead (RLEC + Outlaw + Frye = Jamison + Thomas).

by Norsktroll on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

has become more of a face to the basket player these days.

Somewhat like outlaw but with the urge to rebound.
I suggested earlier that we trade Outlaw, Frye and Bayless for Caron Butler.

"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan

by GreatOden'sRaven on Dec 3, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now THAT

I might do.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do that.

But we would probably sub RLEC for at least one of those players, and would probably need to take a bad contract back in order to sweeten the deal for Washington.

If they really wanted to have a fire sale, we could send Bayless, Diogu, RLEC, Travis, Sergio and a 1st round pick for Butler and Agent Zero. This couldn’t happen before Dec 15th, but it would allow Washington to clear a TON of cap room, give them lots of young prospects, while giving us all-stars at the SF and the PG, and resolve several of our playing time issues.

Write-in Rudy for All-Star 2009!

by Majikj0n on Dec 3, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Probably would be best for Gilbert as well

Seems like he is doomed in Washington. Get him out of there, he needs to be somewhere with no need to be the leader, no major spotlight on him to be the greatest player on the court.

by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 3, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm....

My first instinct: the Blazers need veteran role-players, not veteran star wannabe types. Antawn Jamison has always been the man, and we don’t need black holes.

My second instinct: What if he was our backup 4? Specifically, Travis would need to be included because the skillset duplication is too large. But Antoine Jamison could do all the things Travis is asked to do for us and possibly do them better. Our white unit has shown they need someone who can shoot, but preferably score, from the 4 spot. And Jamison would add his rebounding to that, and possibly our 4th quarter unit on any given night.

So, in other words, maybe…

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

He would be AMAZING in Outlaw’s role, if he were willing to take it. He is better than Travis in every way but three point shooting and age.

If you could give up Trout and/or Frye + RLEC and let Jamison slip in with Rudy, Nic/Martell, Joel, and Sergio, that’s a team that could compete with the L*kers.

Then you give Jamison about 25-30 minutes a game – preserves his career, puts him on a winning team, veteran presence in the locker room, and GREAT scoring and rebounding (all-star level) off the bench.

The more I think about it, the more I love it.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

By "that's a team that could compete with the L*kers, I mean...

If that were the second unit, and the first unit were the same, of course.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we should worry about trading for players

that are not even actually on the trading block. I guess it could be a fun game to play “what if” for some, but not my thing. If we wanted to play “what if” why not trade for Chris Duhon he is a PG, putting up great numbers & smoked us last night…….Oh ya he is not available, and even if he, or Jamison were avialable I would not want to give up any of our key players. So in essence unless some team wants to trade their star player for RLEC & a couple of non-essential role players I would not even give it a second thought.

by SurReal on Dec 3, 2008 11:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

while we're here

let me just say that i haven’t loved a player for his portland-ness like channing frye since.. oh probably brian grant. if we do part with ol’ channer (and i’m sure we will, likely sooner than later) i hope he keeps a home here and maybe does blazer ambassador stuff. i’d miss him.

michelle you look good tonight.. ANYTHING IS POSSIBAAAAAAAAAAL!

by hossticles on Dec 3, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

wholeheartedly agree

Brain Grant was great. I like Channing for some of the same qualities. I don’t understand those who are down on him. He hasn’t gotten minutes, and he has been inconsistent, but he has shown execellent stretches of basketball when he gets the touches. He did start when LMA was out and did very well.

This isn't the Lakers,...
"It's not Show time. It's GO time!"

by GameFace on Dec 3, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and

he’s like the tenth man on the roster… seriously people? You’re bashing the tenth man?

Greg Oden, where posters happen.

by ratbastird on Dec 3, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Were Frye to get the minutes Jamison would if we traded for him...

… I’m betting he’d put up really good numbers.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Channing is the perfect backup for Aldridge

They play a nearly identical game. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're sorta right but...

Is it a GOOD thing to have two PFs who perfer 29-foot jumpers to rebounds? LMA is at least capable of playing in the post and contributing on the boards, even if he doesn’t always do it. Channing seems to have become a pure spot up guy. Not the ideal backup at PF.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They both need to rebound more.

And both are capable of being post players. But soon that will be moot because we will want them to play about ten feet from the hoop so Oden has some room to operate. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Channing used to be capable

But what’s the expression? At some point the young dog becomes an old dog and can’t learn new tricks. Or at least not entirely new styles of play. Haven’t seen Channing go back to the basket once all year that I can remember, and he’s only faced up and gone to the rack a few times (I only recall one or two, actually).

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With Oden and Pryz, LMA and Frye draw the other bigs away from the basket

leaving Oden, Pryz and the guards and small forwards to pick off boards. Team rebounding is way up. Can’t argue with that.

Frye and LMA could bang inside more, but it would clog the lane, preventing Broys penetration and may not result in that many more boards if any.

You can’t look at just one stat in isolation.

by raoulduke on Dec 3, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he's a good piece

and an upgrade over what we have at the 3 (if we choose to play him there), but he’s not a long-term solution (our core and our three current SFs are all younger than him). Nate’s style of play also seems to deemphasize the 3-post as a scoring position, making it into more of a wing defender who spots up for the corner three, which doesn’t play into Jamison’s strengths.

Our most obvious hole is at PG anyway—though Blake is respectable, Sergio is improved, and Bayless is the tantalizing unknown, it’s the weak point in both white and black units this season—and trading for Jamison does nothing to shore that up. So I’d say no deal. Not because he’s a bad player, just not the right fit for this team.

by abdelnaby on Dec 3, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Jameson would have the same problems at the 3 as Outlaw does.

They’re both natural 4’s who can play the 3, but get hurt on D by smaller faster players. I don’t think jameson would crack the rotation at the 4 unless Frye was included though.

This isn’t the move I would be looking for.

by ***Jason*** on Dec 3, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes... Jameson is a 3-4 "Tweener"...

…that needs the ball in his hands to make an impact.

We need a complement-type player at SF that makes the players around him better.
AND WE HAVE HIM…. BATUM!

by spencerbutte on Dec 3, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, it's pretty obvious this team has weak points.

13 – 6, .500 on the road and unbeaten at home. And all after the schedule we have. That screams weakness to me.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

we've lost 30% of our games

obviously there’s some room for improvement, no?

by abdelnaby on Dec 3, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Theoretically.

But you quickly run into the problem of diminishing return.

How much effort do you expend or risk incurred, to improve from .700 ball to .800 ball? Particularly when the odds are very favorable that you will get to .750 or better, without making any changes.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 4, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

a nice player to have except...

he doesn’t really fit into a Blazer need. Remember the situation with Shariff Abdur Rahim. another great guy and a nice player over the length of his career. Trouble was, he wasn’t pegged to be the starter at PF, and SF wasn’t his best position. He wasn’t necesarily better than who we had as starters at the time.

I see it working out in a similar fashion if we tried to get Jamison. If we didn’t have Lamarcus, then I think he would be great. A bit better on the offense end and at rebounding, but overall defense isn’t quite as good. What about SF? I am not sure he would thriev at that position. I don’t see him as being more versatile over time than Martell or Nic. Then you Travis for a nice lift off the bench.

If a deal was made, then one or more of those players would likely be involved and shipped out in the deal. You’d have to give up quite a bit to get Jamison. As much as I like the guy and his game, I don’t think the trade off works in the Blazer’s favor in the long run. The only real trade option I see would involve primarily LMA & Frye, and possibly Webster and/or Outlaw, and a few other players at the end of the bench. Would you take Jamison now over possibly a long tenure from LMA?

This isn't the Lakers,...
"It's not Show time. It's GO time!"

by GameFace on Dec 3, 2008 11:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be angry to get him

but i don’t think he necessarily fits our needs at this point. We’ve got scorers, I’d rather see an elite level ball handler who can play w/out the ball as well and shoot from deep and defend the 1 respectably, or a lock down defender who would be coming in off the bench to bolster the second unit defensive effort.

Every child must be encouraged to get as much education as he has the ability to take. We want this not only for his sake-but for the nation's sake. Nothing matters more to the future of our country: not military preparations-for armed might is worthless if we lack the brain power to build a world of peace; not our productive economy-for we cannot sustain growth without trained manpower; not our democratic system of government-for freedom is fragile if citizens are ignorant.

-President Lyndon B. Johnson

by saregister on Dec 3, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

We ARE straight ballin' right now

I interpreted ‘wait and see’ as no thank you to any but the most lopsided trade and let’s watch this team keep winning, not wait and see if we could use Jamison.

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on Dec 3, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

as I've said on earlier threads

As long as this team isn’t fighting each other for minutes (I mean knockdown drag-out brawls), I say let’s keep them together and see how far we can go. A dynasty may well manifest itself. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Keep up that sort of thinking Elgin...

and you will be alright in my book.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 3:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks timg56

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be angry to get him

but i don’t think he necessarily fits our needs at this point. We’ve got scorers, I’d rather see an elite level ball handler who can play w/out the ball as well and shoot from deep and defend the 1 respectably, or a lock down defender who would be coming in off the bench to bolster the second unit defensive effort.

Every child must be encouraged to get as much education as he has the ability to take. We want this not only for his sake-but for the nation's sake. Nothing matters more to the future of our country: not military preparations-for armed might is worthless if we lack the brain power to build a world of peace; not our productive economy-for we cannot sustain growth without trained manpower; not our democratic system of government-for freedom is fragile if citizens are ignorant.

-President Lyndon B. Johnson

by saregister on Dec 3, 2008 11:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I voted for not a PG, but ........

….it would depend on the price. Jameson is an established player: he can score, he cleans the glass. However I am not real impressed with his D and his 3pt shooting pct. has been below 33% for the past couple of years. Can he play the 3 or is he exclusively a 4? I don’t see matching salaries without giving up too much.

I think we are well stocked at the 2-5 positions. If we are going to make a trade I think the point should be the obvious priority.

Bottom Line: dubious, doubtful, but willing to listen.

by upper left corner on Dec 3, 2008 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

He’s played 70% of their minutes at the 4 this year… and 8% at the 3

…82games.com

by ***Jason*** on Dec 3, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

part of that is because they have no big people to speak of.

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see it

The Bullets aren’t going to give away Jamison for backups, even talented ones like Trout and Channing. You can keep throwing more players into the deal but being an NBA GM is not like being a GM in NBA Live. To get Jamison you are going to have to trade a potential all-star caliber player like Aldridge. I wouldn’t even be sure that the Bullets would make the trade if you threw Rudy into the deal, which I am sure people here would be against.

by trailblazersfan on Dec 3, 2008 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Because of their record,

I’m not so sure he’s off limits. Especially when you factor in something like RLEC in the deal…

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 11:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you might be right but

go to the trade machine and come up with a plausible deal. I tried but the deal I posted earlier would never happen, see if you can come up with something you like that the Bullets would actually consider.

by trailblazersfan on Dec 3, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How about this

I just included Antonio Daniels to make it work because people have been talking about point guards, but they have some other pieces too that I’d substitute. AD’s place presumably would be at the end of the bench.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=4542015183385&teams=27272222&te=&cash=

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant to say...

IMO the Bullets wouldn’t make that deal. They already have an all-star at the small forward position and Travis is not even close to being as good of a player as Jamison. They do dump a lot of salary, but I don’t think it would make up for the gap in talent.

by trailblazersfan on Dec 3, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough, but if they keep losing...

I think it’s a fair deal. Personally though, I don’t agree with people who say that PG is our weakness. I think Blake and Sergio have been a very effective tandem. So I’d be willing to substitute someone else into the trade instead of Daniels.

In fact, I’d venture to say that Daniels is the main reason they wouldn’t do that deal, not Jamison. I only just looked up his stats and it seems like he’s having a solid season at backup point guard, although he’s missed some games.

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's all Travis has ever really shown us.

Kind of makes you wonder if Frye is the odd man out, leaving Travis to back up LA, and Webster and Batum at the three.

by ***Jason*** on Dec 3, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but

they tried him at the 3 a lot this year. He just confirmed he’s a 4.

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2 comments

1. They would really have to want RLEC because Outlaw for two of their starters would make their fans question their sanity.

2. If Daniels still has it (he’s getting old), he’d be an excellent defender at the 1, much much better than anyone we have now defending the one – most of the length of Batum, and ten times the savvy. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I didn't realize Daniels was starting.

I didn’t really have a good reason for picking him in the trade other than he played here briefly and I liked his game. But we’d have to have someone coming back for TO and RLEC in addition to Jamison, in order to make the salaries work.

Here’s another one, this one does not include RLEC, so we’d still have that as a chip, but we’d be giving away more of who we have:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=341727542015385&teams=27272722&te=&cash=

by ranma on Dec 3, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agree...

they just signed arenas and jamison at the same time, which the intention of this is clear…. they won’t blow this thing up for at least another 1-2 years… though, signing arenas was dumb

by hotstuffdb22 on Dec 3, 2008 11:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why are people so enamored with players who're inefficient offensively and can't play a lick of defense?

Okay, here’s the quick ‘n’ dirty on Antawn Jamison.

1. Jamison is an inefficient shooter (41.5% eFG%) on jump shots.

2. Jamison shoots too many jumpers — which makes up 59% of his field-goal attempts — for a 6’9" dude.

3. Jamison lacks the strength, toughness, and intensity to guard power forwards.

4. Jamison lacks the speed, agility, and lateral quickness to guard small forwards.

5. Jamison has a exorbitantly large contract that shouldn’t be touched with a ten-foot pole.

Well, that’s that.

by AK1984 on Dec 3, 2008 11:41 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Agree

He can play the game, but not the game I like. So no thank you.

"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.

by blazermaniac32 on Dec 3, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also Agree

1- 5 Does correctly list his shortcomings.

by spencerbutte on Dec 3, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jamison's okay...

But really, I’d rather get Caron Butler. That guy’s a stud.

Write-in Rudy for All-Star 2009!

by Majikj0n on Dec 3, 2008 11:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts.

At 6’9", 235lbs, and 32 years of age – we’d likely be picking up a player for 2-3 decent years. And the question I have is – can he play SF – which he hasn’t done much of. If not, then we’d be paying starting money for a 2nd team PF. And that I would question.

One thought I’ve been kicking around is Raymond Felton. I’ve read enough – including in the Charlotte papers, that since he’s going to become a restricted free agent at the end of the year, and Augustin is increasingly primed to be Brown’s starter – he could be available. Now I know Felton isn’t an all-star, but given the all-star PG’s are generally out of reach (unless you want to grab a Kidd/Nash and then pray for rain in 2 years), would Felton be an upgrade and a solid long term off-set to Roy? Just Asking.

by Eben Calder on Dec 3, 2008 12:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Jamison was a SF before he got to DC

In Dallas and Golden State. He can do it.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do it

I think this is a fair deal for both sides. You would be fools to pass this deal up.

(I’m joking, obviously.)

Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.

by JakeTheSnake on Dec 3, 2008 12:05 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

That is Funny

Move over Chris Rock, I think we’ve found your successor!!

Every child must be encouraged to get as much education as he has the ability to take. We want this not only for his sake-but for the nation's sake. Nothing matters more to the future of our country: not military preparations-for armed might is worthless if we lack the brain power to build a world of peace; not our productive economy-for we cannot sustain growth without trained manpower; not our democratic system of government-for freedom is fragile if citizens are ignorant.

-President Lyndon B. Johnson

by saregister on Dec 3, 2008 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be fair If

Portland added Rudy and LA

by thomasikehara on Dec 3, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ben

Shouldnt this poll be for Caron?
He would fit much better and is much younger

"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan

by GreatOden'sRaven on Dec 3, 2008 12:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

my guess is that because he’s younger and quite talented he is a piece that the wiz would want to build around, making him significantly harder to pry away than jamison. im no expert on the wiz roster though. perhaps wiz fans and management feel jamison is less tradeable than i think he should be.

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Pradamaster covered it pretty well here, but any team looking to acquire Caron would really have to blow us away. And when I say “us” I mean Wizards management, since I really don’t get a say in any of the Wizards’ roster moves.

Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.

by JakeTheSnake on Dec 3, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

Nice work on your blog Jake. Though I still can’t cheer for the wiz after 10 years in DC, you’re solid.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by dcblazer on Dec 3, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for heading over to weigh in…

a tip of the hat to you…

good luck tonight…

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Though, when healthy, Arenas tends to get more the national spotlight, this town (I’m a transplant) would freak out over the loss of Caron. He’s more of the face of the franchise locally than any of the others on the squad. That said “les balles” did ship off a young Rasheed.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by dcblazer on Dec 3, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In the post Jake referenced

I proposed Blake, Pryzbilla and Sergio for Antawn. That’s probably not enough of a return for us, and I doubt you’d trade both your PGs, so that’s probably out. Maybe substitute Outlaw for Blake and we’d throw in someone like Darius Songaila.

So it’d be Antawn and Songaila for Outlaw, Pryz, Sergio and either Channing Frye/Ike Diogu.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

thanks for checking in… just read through your post…. herculean effort… wish id read it before posting this…. in any case…. i think the biggest pushback you’ll get is for przybilla. is there a deal that works without him?

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Umm

Jamison, Songaila and DeShawn Stevenson for Raef, Outlaw, Frye and Sergio?

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's probably no good

Then just make it Antawn for Outlaw, Frye and Sergio/Bayless.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

would outlaw frye and sergio be enough to get this done? if so i think you should call your GM and ill call KP….

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like more cap relief ideally

Or Pryzbilla to be a backup center for us, but the issue is that Raef makes more than Antawn and I want Outlaw and one of your young guys to be a part of the deal.

This is tricky. Maybe we can do Antawn, Songaila and Dee Brown for Raef, Outlaw and Sergio. But that leaves us really thin up front.

Ok, what about Antawn, Songaila and Pecherov for Pryz, Outlaw, Frye and Sergio?

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No kidding

I’d throw in a couple second round picks if they want them, too. We’ve got those to burn. I might even throw in our first rounder….

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok then

Antawn for Travis, Channing, Bayless and a lottery-protected first-rounder.

Deal?

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would really be tempted

Bayless’ future is very, very high, but I think we instantly become top contenders — and we still have cap space.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Done

Ben’s right, Pryz is untouchable.

Jamison + change for RLEC, Outlaw, and Frye.

Done and done.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

call me an Outlaw fan

but I don’t see how Jamison is an improvement over him, especially considering their ages.

I don’t want to do this trade. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 1:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Maybe I fit into the “unreasonable homer” box, but i like TO. I like his energy off the bench. I like his Vinnie Johnson-esque ability to light it up immediately. I like his energy and i like his wingspan.

If TO develops the ability to snag more offensive rebounds, I think he’s a gem. 6thMOY-type guy.

However, I think of Martell, and feel no attachment whatever. Webster for the blocks. Keep Outlaw.

by sagcat on Dec 3, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

besides

Outlaw is a defender and Jamison is less of one. – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Outlaw is a defender?

Is that a character he plays in an internet RPG or something? Dungeons and Dragons?

He doesn’t play that character on the basketball court very often. Maybe once every four games for about a five minute stretch.

Trout might have the biggest disparity between vertical leap and lateral quickness (on D at least) I’ve ever seen.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Reason for keeping Webster

TO cannot shoot 3s, that’s all Webster needs to do and that’s all that’s keeping Outlaw out of the starting 5. In all cases, as an energy guy, you have Rudy as well, for all extensive purposes, Outlaw is expendable and valuable trading piece.

by Jaceman on Dec 3, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Outlaw is shooting almost .500 from 3 this year.

I think he leads the team, and he’s 7th in the league.

by ***Jason*** on Dec 3, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

BUTLER NOT JAMISON!!!!!

I would trade for Butler before I traded for Jamison….but I don’t dictate any trading.

I didn't mean to turn you on

by dukedee on Dec 3, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i dont think we'd ever trade Butler

(from Bullets Forever)

I can’t really see that happening. Without knowing how Gilbert will come back, Caron HAS to be plan B for Ernie Grunfeld’s vision of this team for the next three years.

FWIW, I wanted Jamison gone from our projected starting lineup since last season, but he actually attempted to play defense in 07-08… he is simply horrible at it.

If we can get some of your young talent for him, I’ll dance a jig. And I’m black. Of course, I condone us tanking the season just to get a top 4 pick in a week draft.

'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap

by KDP on Dec 3, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome

Yeah, I don’t think Washington’s giving up Butler. Jamison’s in play though.

He might be a terrible defender, but he’s not any worse than Frye or Outlaw, and the Blazers have Oden and Billa to erase mistakes.

Love Jamison as the backup PF.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Antawn isn't worth the asking price

I don’t think there’s any combination of players that the Wiz would take in exchange that wouldn’t be too high a price to pay. And for not that big an improvement. If any. And what would the deal do to the locker room?

However, I would be willing to trade Webster and another player (Sergio?) for their lottery pick. I might even throw in Raef’s big cap space bonanza (even though we could kinda use that, too.)

by sagcat on Dec 3, 2008 1:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Antawn's one a small group in the NBA that would fit.

His personality and work ethic fit our culture. He’s a bit of a tweener forward, but it doesn’t take much of an imagination to get excited about a front line of Jamison, Aldridge and Oden.

There’s a lot of trade talk out there, but when I look around the league there are very few vets that I’d really want to introduce to our awesome roster. The “borderline” note means it would have to be an absolute steal to make the deal, IMO.

Jamison
Battier
Lee
Calderon
Nash
Deng & Hinrich (borderline)
Prince
Granger
Paul (notgonnahappen)
G. Wallace (borderline)

I consider SG, PF and C filled and untouchable. I’ve also left off superstars that would steal focus from our team oriented game. Considering that, what is your list?

by obrien2020 on Dec 3, 2008 1:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to get Calderon

I’m generally happy with our PG play, but I’d swap out for Calderon. Blake & Martell for Calderon would be a steal for us. (and the salaries seem to fit.) But the Raps would never do it.

Phoenix and New Orleans would only take way more than we’d want to give up for their PG’s, too. And as you mentioned, NO might not trade Paul even for the whole sink.

by sagcat on Dec 3, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why bother?

I agree. We need a legit NBA starting point guard. No other trade should be considered until this deal is done.

by toolman on Dec 3, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You need an SF that defends and shoots 3s like what the Lakers need

Except Portland doesn’t have Ariza and Radmanovic to cover. Thus the list would be:
Prince, Posey, Battier, maybe Nocioni or Hermann

Bigger names would be:
Turkoglu

For PG, you need simply someone serviceable that can dish;
Raymond Felton, Michael Conley

by Jaceman on Dec 3, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hello, Marty is coming back!

He looked awesome in pre-season. He’s a pure shooter. The battle between Batum and Marty for starting position should be epic.

by toolman on Dec 3, 2008 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to think

We could have had Lee for Darius Miles.

cringes

by beam_us_up_scottie on Dec 3, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if this is going to get me in trouble or not

It makes me laugh when this site has encouraged me to ignore/report silly trade ideas recently, and then posts one front and center in the next few days.

Maybe I should report this misuse of the site to Ben?

Seriously, this idea isn’t as horrid as some, but it isn’t as good as some either.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 1:58 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

After all the stuff everyone has been saying about trade posts recently, this seems like really poor timing.

This should help to encourage more trade posts, which is just a poor idea for a number of reasons (why is it that we get to 13-6 and everyone thinks we need a change, while for the last few years there were virtually no trade posts?). Why write about this unless someone in the front office is seriously considering this?

by einman77 on Dec 3, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Honestly unless there is a patented upgrade for PG or SF

The Blazers really don’t have to make any moves. Work on developing Oden. Basically, the most ideal player would be Tayshaun Prince, who the Blazers are not going to get. Felton or Conley are your best bets, but neither are really standout right now. Another great fit you wouldn’t get is probably Wilson Chandler and maybe Jared Dudley.

by Jaceman on Dec 3, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Why write about this unless someone in the front office is seriously considering this?"

I’m seriously praying that that isn’t true!

I wouldn’t even wish that trade away on either Sergio or Outlaw.

(I actually did flag it, join me!)

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just so no one gets the wrong idea; I do like Ben.

I just think this post is for giggles and so I’m taking it that way.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The "site" didn't discourage trade posts, LOL

A subsection of the site did. Some people gets annoyed by them, and that’s ok.

But Ben knows that, when you have a zillion dollars in cap room and a huge expiring deal, you talk trades. Yes, even if you’re 13-6. Yes, even if you love sincerely every player on the team and never ever want to see any of them wearing another uni.

It’s not disloyal. No traders anonymous support group is necessary. It’s the way the league works.

Rest assured, if Jamison were on the table, KP would be considering it. Just like people are above. And so it’s fun to debate back and forth whether a deal’s feasible and whether it would help the squad.

And if that’s annoying, can’t we all just agree not to read it? I’m annoyed by people being annoyed at obviously relevant conversation (like potentially feasible trades). But you know what? If you’re annoyed, you’re free to voice your opinion. Just as people are free to discuss trades.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL yourself!

I never said the site discouraged trade posts. Just silly ones. After a bunch having to do with Marbury, among other things, this came from Dave:

"Here’s the point of all this: I’ve seen bad. I’ve been in the same room with bad. I’ve watched bad while it’s happened. I know what bad looks like. When you post here, it’s not supposed to be bad. It’s supposed to be good, both in content and good for the site.
 
We have conversational guidelines but no list of rules could cover every contingency. There’s plenty of wiggle room in there to create bad content without technically violating them. So just to be clear I thought I’d inform you of another, overarching principle which explains the spirit of the law just as the rules illuminate the letter:
 
If your posting sucks worse than snot-covered Cheetos, you have to go."

Hmm… the insinuation was combined by lots of huzzahs from BE vets about stopping trade posts. Then bam!

Here we are with an AJ trade post.

To me this is a silly trade post. You are welcome to disagree.

Regardless, you have to admit it is funny.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What's silly about it?

I understand why some things (primarily Jamison being a scorer and mostly a four) could lead you to go against a trade for Jamison idea.

But there’s nothing “silly” about it. What exactly makes it silly? If you’re going to throw labels around, that’s cool, but explain them.

Jamison is averaging 20 and 10. He was an all-star last year. He’s still only 31. He’s relatively affordable. And because of his team’s situation, he might be available.

Are you saying it’s crazy that the Blazers might be interested? I just don’t get that. At all. Clearly, the Blazers would give it some thought if the Wizards were on the phone and weigh the options. Maybe they make an offer, maybe not.

But they wouldn’t laugh.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Dec 3, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be silly

if it was, “Oh, let’s trade a second round pick for him.”

Do you like asparagus?

by jscot on Dec 4, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jamison? A little old

There’s not really a need for Jamison, while he can shoot the three he’s 31, the tail end of his career. You could probably do a lot better than Jamison with that kind of offer, or probably giving away less, like maybe Hedo? If you’re dead set on getting a PG, try Raymond Felton perhaps, a straight-up of Felton for Outlaw is a maybe, or Gerald Wallace, but he can’t shoot threes.

by Jaceman on Dec 3, 2008 2:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What is this, a joke?

I’m not even dignifying this question with an answer.

by neutroticblazerfan on Dec 3, 2008 2:37 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Our situation is getting better, so someone else's is getting worse...

I am pretty good at math, so I had to double check my figures on this one, but if you total all the wins and loses in the NBA they come out evenly. Seriously. The league is .500. I went back through record books, and through some amazing fluke (or perhaps alien intervention) this has happened since the league’s founding! Why don’t we hear more about this? Forget the “class of 2010” this a conspiracy of epic proportions.

I will save my theories on this for another time, for now I think we should just take advantage of it. The NBA is zero sum game. We are exceeding (most) expectations, which means others are not. I think the premise of this post is the most interesting thing to hold onto:

“If there’s a quality veteran player on a team that’s off to a terrible start who best fits the Blazers’ needs and culture, it might be the Wizards’ Antawn Jamison.”

For reasons some have stated above, I am not sure AJ is the answer to this, but some of the teams “off to a terrible start” are going to get even worse. Maybe it will be the Wizards, maybe someone else. Heads start to roll. People get jumpy. That is when our flexibility and plethora of talent comes in. And the best part is, it may have more to do with the former than the latter. We may have to give up less than we think. I believe we might be able to pick up someone who is not on our radar (actually, this isn’t possible given that we have hypothetically traded for every player in the past month, so everyone is sorta on the radar). What makes me excited is the element of surprise—not just us sneaking up on the league (they see us coming now anyway), but KP sneaking around and making one more deal before he truly solidifies the team. I think, one way or another, this will happen. I am pumped about this season, but I still think we are in for a few lows (sorry) to go along with our highs, and I am not convinced we are title contender quite yet. But we are above .500, and that means someone else is below .500 … getting desperate, and getting ready to give away veteran talent in the hopes of rebuilding.

by unemployedreflection on Dec 3, 2008 2:44 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Wow....+1

I agree 100%. I think as fans we focus on the here and now way too much. I love this team….LOVE IT. As a fan, I don’t want to see anyone go. You hear “championship window” mentioned all the time, but what has never been coined before is “construction window.” Our construction window is about to close right around Nov. 1st, 2009. I agree that our championship window might just be barely, slightly starting to crack open this season (for instance, if K*be were to sustain a season-ending injury, our odds would go up significantly.)

After this upcoming summer is over, our flexibility becomes heavily diminished. The question shouldn’t be “will X player (AJ in this case) help us this season?” It should be “will X player improve our odds of winning titles during the a good chunk of our championship window.” That really depends on when you think our championship window reaches its true apex (aka wide open status) and it also depends on how we project our current players will improve/decline.

For instance, I LOVE how Blake and Pryz are playing right now, but is it atleast a possibility that this season might be their best and they start to decline from here on out? If that is truly the case, especially for Blake, and you have doubts about Sergio & Bayless’ development and projected improvement, we might want to think about trading/signing for a veteran PG. The ideal time to do that would be during our construction window…..thus all the trade ideas on this site, even though we are playing so well currently. This is our time to be in a buying/construction mode and the early success is just gravy. Like unemployed said, (lopsided) trades can become a reality when you have a team in buying/construction mode (us for the next 9 months) making a deal with teams in selling/starting to rebuild mode (yet to be seen who these teams will be.)

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Dec 3, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No

on so many levels, we are giving players we still don’t know much about and it was suggested on the Wiz board that Sergio or Bayless???? would also need to be involved in the deal. The last thing we need is Sergio or Bayless lighting us up for 10-12 years after Jamison is retired. Lastly is he going to take us to the finals now? I highly doubt it, he played on a very talented Mavs team and did not take them over the top.

Boo, to this whole thread,

by Dragonage on Dec 3, 2008 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

You're surprised that a Don Nelson team

that started Dirk at C and Toine Walker at PF didn’t win the championship? Really?

by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2008 9:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've got to he honest here

It upsets me a great deal that someone that follows this team and holds such an important position to my favorite site, would even suggest that a deal being made for Antawn Jamison is a good idea.

His defense. Defense? The only thing he provides to a team defensively is rebounding. We’ve got the #1 and #2 overall rebounding centers in the league. This quality of his is nice, but has very little relevance on this team. He can’t defend on the perimeter because he is far too slow, and he can’t defend in the post because he is far too short. So basically, having him on the floor is going to hurt your defense, and if he were on the court at the same time as say, Travis Outlaw, or Channing Frye it would be a disaster.

His offense. He’s supposedly an interior presence, but again, if he were to start he’d play the 3 here. He takes a surprisingly high percentage of his shots from outside (59), while not being a great shooter (33 from 3). He’s a poor passer, despite touching the ball a ton, he gets under 2 assists per game. His only real contribution offensively to this team would be on the offensive glass. The issue there however is that LMA and Batum are already very good offensive rebounders, and they provide other important skills to this team (Batum’s D and 3PT’r) and LMA’s general awesomeness.

The biggest and most crippling mind numbingly dumb part of any trade in which we get Jamison is his age and his salary. He’s owed over 50 million dollars for the next 4 years, and he’s already 32 years old. I’m not sure how familiar some of you are with basketball players prime ages, but Jamison is already 5 years past his, and he isn’t getting any better. Most players when they get up in age try to grab onto skills they can maintain (3PT), but Jamison has had a steadily decreasing % from 3 the last 4 years. The reason his PER is so high is because without Haywood on the Wiz he gets a lot of rebounds by default. He also uses up a lot of his teams offensive possessions. He’s just not an efficient enough guy for a basketball team and it shows it the Wizards record 3-12.

There are a ton of players that are better fits, cost less, and are younger. Please in the future Ben, find those guys to write trade rumors about. I can also assure you that any KP rumors surrounding Jamison or the Wizards are false. We’ve got one of the best GM’s in recent memory, and I’m not at all worried bout such a disasterous trade going down.

Some players that you could write more reasonable trade rumors about include, Gerald Wallace, Mike Miller, Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Marvin Williams, Shawn Marion (I’m against this one too), Hedo Turoglu (through FA), AK47 (although he’s on a rival), Mike Conley Jr, Jason Terry, Baron Davis, Luis Scola, Carl Landry etc….

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 3:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

thanks for the feedback.

if you’re genuinely upset, it’s time to take a step back and put the keyboard down, man. it’s not that serious.

to be clear this wasn’ a trade “rumor”… merely a discussion of a player that is more likely than most to get traded this season because of the circumstances mentioned. i do a poll every day and try to mix it up to keep things fresh. jamison’s name gets brought up today because we are playing the wizards tonight, that’s it.

i like your list of players. we’ve discussed many of them in the past and we probably will discuss them in the future.

Draft Kyle Singler.

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just frustrated with bad trade proposals
if you’re genuinely upset, it’s time to take a step back and put the keyboard down, man. it’s not that serious.

I’m not real upset, I’m message board upset. When reading your breakdown it sounded like you’d like to acquire the guy. I just can’t see that as a positive move for this team, and I don’t understand how you, a person very involved in the day to day of the team, could see it as a positive move either.

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what does the poster known as Hibachi

think of Gilbert Arenas as a Blazer? – Elgin

He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel

by 22baylor on Dec 3, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

when i advocate for something i put it pretty clearly. i didn’t write that we should acquire him. the way i wrote that was intended to spark discussion.

there are obviously things that aren’t ideal about jamison. but the same can be said about anyone on your list, or anyone that we are going to be able to trade for if we are only moving our bench guys. that’s just how trades in the nba work.

this discussion was worth having if only because it helps clarify what exactly we do want in a player that’s coming back… clearly there is a wide variety of opinions on that…

also note that both the wizards blog and oregonlive picked up on this… if that adds a level of intrigue to tonight’s game, excellent…

Draft Kyle Singler.

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

That is not the type of intrigue I want. That is the type of intrigue that makes me scared even if we do win.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough…

Draft Kyle Singler.

by Ben. on Dec 3, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me rephrase that

This
“Jamison is probably somewhere on KP and TP’s hit list”
scared me.
Then I thought, oh Ben got me!
And I laughed.

by staylost on Dec 3, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like the topic

I think trades are always a fun discussion topic because it allows you to be creative and focus on how you could improve a team. Just because you discuss a trade doesn’t mean that you take it seriously. I don’t think the Blazers should trade anyone this year if they stay above .500 (barring injuries), but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t consider ways to improve the team.

I especially like it that Bullets fans have posted their thoughts about some of the proposed trade, giving a nice balance to the discussion. It is interesting to see how non Blazer fans value some of our younger guys like Trout or Bayless.

by trailblazersfan on Dec 3, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol

NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"

by rockingharder on Dec 3, 2008 3:59 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I voted do not want, but I like Jamison more than most of the folks here.

I’m actually finding it a little hilarious that folks around here are bad-mouthing Jamison.

Yeah, Jamison might be a bit soft, might be more offense than defense, might not be the most efficient scorer. You know who those criticisms apply to even more than Jamison?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=aldrila01&y1=2009&p2=jamisan01&y2=2009

Funny how mr. black hole has a better assist rate than LMA. Or how he has a lower usage rate but a higher scoring or vastly better true shooting % or much better reb rate.

And he needs the ball in his hands, really? Except when he’s had to take on more of a load because of Arenas’s injuries, he’s mostly been a cutter and spot up guy. He’s not getting any better as11osu? Because from what I see, he’s gotten better each of the past three years, despite his age.

So the main reason I said no thanks: we already have someone who we think probably will be Jamison in two or three years.

by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2008 5:27 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

LaMarcus Aldridge is a good defender getting better.

Jamison is among the worst defenders in the NBA and getting older and worse. If LMA was on that team he’d have a ton more boards than Jamison. Also, I said he’s getting worse and worse from 3, and given where he’d need to play on this team, THAT is the important number. A 32 year old player owed 50 million dollars… again, no thanks.

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're in the tiny minority of basketball watchers

if you think LMA is a good defender. Basically a minority comprised solely of the Blazer cheerleaders and a surprising number of people who hang out at this site. Not any other blazer fan sites, mind you, just this one.

For such a terrible defender (among the worst defenders according to you) matched up against a good defender (according to you), it’s kind of surprising how much Antawn outplayed LMA tonight….

The reality is that Antawn is an indifferent defender who can play some decent defense when he tries but often doesn’t, just like LMA is an indifferent defender who can play some decent defense when he tries but often doesn’t.

Plus, reading comprehension much? I’m not disagreeing that I don’t want him (notice where I said “i voted do not want”?) . I’m just pointing out how funny it is for fans here to criticize Antawn’s game when we sit around cheerleading for LMA, who’s a lot like Antawn except a little to a lot worse at everything. But, yeah, cheaper and younger.

You know, it’s possible to say that you don’t want a player without just making outrageously exaggerated aspersions. “One of the worst defenders in the NBA”, just ludicrous. And my god, you’d rather talk about Vince Carter? Epic fail.

by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2008 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Its crazy how oblivious you seem to be to a couple key truths.

Jamison is the Wiz’s 1a or 1b option, and their 1’s are leagues above the rest of their team in scoring. By contrast, every player on Portland’s roster can score, and at very efficient levels. When Jamison scores more points that Alrdridge it doesn’t mean he’s a better player.

Also take a look at the on court off court stats for Jamison.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08WAS8.HTM

The Wizards defense is 17 points (<—-ridiculous number being pointed out) better on the defensive end per 100 possessions with Antawn Jamison not on the court. They’re also only 8 points better offensively because of him. Compare that to LMA who makes the Blazers offense 17 points better on offense and only 2 points worse on defense.

Also if you’d notice their defensive numbers against, the player Aldridge defends is 2 PER below the player Jamison defends. These numbers aren’t all accidents, and if you go back in time, Aldridge has been the better defender every single year he’s been in the league (including his rookie year).

And yes, Vince Carter is better on defense (also on offense I don’t want him either though. It is absolutely baffling to have the watched the Wizards for the last 4 years and not to acknowledge just how bad Jamison is defensively. Time and time again, Jamison takes the easiest too defend player (SF/PF) and still puts up these ridiculously bad numbers. He simply isn’t quick enough to stay in front of even remotely athletic 3’s, and he isn’t big enough to hang with legit 4’s.

To be fair, the question of Antawn is ridiculous from the get go because of his age and contract. The rest of his anti-Blazer basketball game, is just icing on a horribly thought out trade idea.

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+/- doesn't show what you think it shows.

It shows things like what your backup is like, and is heavily influenced by your teammates, and by how good your team is overall and whether you’re winning or losing.

So Antawn who you rightly point out has terrible /- this year on defense (16.7) had much better +/- last year on defense (-3.3): http://www.82games.com/0708/07WAS9D.HTM. Better than LMA’s +/- last year on defense, (-0.5): http://www.82games.com/0708/07POR10D.HTM

But this doesn’t really mean that much. Or it does, but not what you think it means. Antawn wasn’t a good defender last year and a bad defender this year; he’s consistently an ok defender, or more accurately, he doesn’t focus on defense a lot of the time, but he does some other times. Like LMA, who can play some decent defense but mostly chooses not to.

Jamison is definitely not good defensively, but only the rosiest of rose colored glasses would make you believe that LMA is a good defender.

by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2008 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You know better than this

Aldridge is an adequate defender at the 4 position. He’s also one of our best perimeter defenders on the entire team (despite being 6’11").

Jamison on the other hand is a piss poor perimeter defender because of how slow footed he is. He’s also a piss poor interior defender (even when he’s trying) because of his lack of height and length.

There is a reason Aldridge allows less points to the players he’s been defending over the years. All of last year, Aldridge defended the best opposing post player, while thats never really been in Jamison’s job description or responsibility.

by as11osu on Dec 3, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aldridge is good for a big on the perimeter.

But that’s hardly how one gauges how good a big is defensively. Tim Duncan is bad on the perimeter, that doesn’t prevent him from being one of the three premier defensive bigs this decade.

Sorry, I know this is kind of a religious argument. For some reason, on this website (and this website only), LaMarcus who’s considered everywhere else to be a soft post defender is suddenly transformed into some kind of fusion of KG and Tim Duncan.

by howlingfantods on Dec 4, 2008 2:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you know thats not true...

When I say “good” apparently you’re construing that to mean something other than what it means.

Lets say there are 2.5 power forwards per team playing (30 teams). That means we’ve got 75 power forwards to grade. Lets put the categories out there like this…

Great
Very Good
Good
Average
Bad
Very Bad
Pathetic

That is 7 categories, and we can split em up nice and evenly (11 per group). That means that when grading out LMA he’s between the 23rd and 33rd best defensive PF (out of 75). He may be on the softer side, but he’s among the most versatile, and most athletic (and longest) of the entire bunch. Jamison as a pure PF is awful athletically, and is too short to play the position. He’d be between very bad and pathetic. His only skill, like Zach Randolph (only shorter and smaller) is getting in position for defensive rebounds. A thing he’s gotten pretty good at since its obvious any time you watch him out there that he’s simply not going to block a shot (he’s got to be among the worst PF’s in the NBA today). So the guy won’t alter any shots, out there, and if he gets caught on the perimeter, you might as well say your prayers, because he’s about to get beaten to the hole.

by as11osu on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever.

So you’re saying that “good” means being the 23 to 33rd best defender when there are 30 starting PFs in the league. Fantastic.

A team made up of 30th best at everything starting for you is not going to win you many games. The general presumption is that if your starters aren’t the 15th best at their positions (i.e. "average") or better, they are bad, but according to you is “good” because they’re better than the bench guys.

So yes, I agree with you. LMA is in the bottom half of starting PFs in the league on defense. So is Jamison. Both aren’t as bad as some of the worst starters (zbo and amare spring to mind), but both aren’t “good” as most of the rest of the world uses that word (to mean something better than average).

Again the argument isn’t that Jamison is all nba defender or anything, but he’s no worse than somewhat below average, same as LMA. I’m not distorting reality to make some kind of ludicrous point about the value of players — Antawn’s a two time allstar, most recently last year. LMA is good for a PF on the wings, but that doesn’t make him one of our best wing defenders, and that skill is almost irrelevant to assessing how good a defender a PF is considered to be.

Yes, LMA is younger and cheaper than Antawn. He’s also measurably worse in almost every respect, but probably has an upside around where Antawn is. That is not a bad thing — again, Antawn is a 2 time all star. Given that, it’s ridiculous to be casting aspersions on one man’s game and heaping praise on another’s, and the only way you’re accomplishing that is by distorting reality — at least the reality I’m seeing, the reality that the coaches who put Antawn on the all-star game twice is seeing, the reality that press around the league is seeing.

by howlingfantods on Dec 4, 2008 8:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ok. Since it got deleted for some ridiculous reason,

I’ll say it again:

Here’s a good trade suggestion:

Nobody for no one.

Can we please just forget about trading our players? Goodness gracious.

"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."

MT Suit, 11/25/08

by MT Suit on Dec 3, 2008 8:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like the way

that jives with your signature.

by abdelnaby on Dec 3, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

dude,

the sig is up there for posterity, so that one day soon we can look back and laugh at how foolish I used to be.

I’ll post my mea culpa for the quote in my sig if and when a suitable time comes. If LMA and Oden keep playing well then the time will come soon. patience my friend patience

"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."

MT Suit, 11/25/08

by MT Suit on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If it ain't broke don't fix it

I get why so many people dont want any trades to be made. I don’t want to have ANYTHING happen to ruin our chemistry but at the same time i am realistic about the fact, crazy as it sounds, we have TOO much talent. Once Martell gets back there just simply is not enough minutes. Web wont be playing 15 minutes a game like Batum and i think Batum rocks it. Oh, that chemistry i spoke of, thats gonna go bye bye anyways once Web does get back. Right now our guys know there rolls, Batum gets his spot, Rudy, Troutlaw, Pryz, they all get there spots. Once Web comes back Nics minutes go Bye bye and so do Probly Channings(most of em) and even some of Rudy and Trouts minutes. This will cause EVERYONE short of the big 3 to re-examine there roles. This will not be drastic but no different than a non-major trade. Just my 2-cents, something to ponder. Oh, by the way 14-6 first in the division, second in the confernce!!!!!!!! Early i know but still.

by blazerbeliever97504 on Dec 3, 2008 10:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Antawn Jamison fits in.

  • Too weak defensively
  • A tweener forward
  • Old
  • Long contract with limits any other moves the Blazers might want to do

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/

by NBR on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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