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Around SBN: Sob City: Clippers Swept By Spurs

Bad apples + Brandon Roy + This American Life=fanpost

In the Blazers Edge quest for the most "should we get player x?" type of posts out there we invariably get a player x whose talents could really help this team, but who has questionable character. I dont want to name any names but their initials are Ron Artest.

I always liked the saying that you can have one ass (is that ok to type on BE if it is referring to an animal? We will find out.) on a team, but you cant have 2 because they will multiply. So I have been of the opinion that we can tolerate on questionable player due to this logic. After today I started to question the soundness of this reasoning due to the basketball well of knowledge that is This American Life. (The show aired on 12/21.)

Not to go into too many details, but they interviewed a researcher who did an experiment where he had groups of students work on a project with a monetary reward attached to it. In half the tests a student was planted in the group that was a bad apple and acted as either a jerk, a pessimist, or a slacker. The usual thinking is that groups are so powerful that they will pull one bad apple into line, but this study showed that the opposite happened. The bad apple was able to destroy the groups ability to work together. So from this study we might conclude that we cannot tolerate even one bad apple on the Blazers.

That is not where the story ends though. One of the groups that had the bad apple planted was able to stay on task and accomplish the goals of the project despite the presence of the bad apple. What set this group apart? They had a student who was the son of a diplomat who was very good at diffusing conflicts by asking lots of questions, which also helped people feel that they were contributing. To me that type of natural leadership is demonstrated by Brandon Roy. So I am now conflicted as to whether or not the Blazers could tolerate a Ron Artest like player due to Brandon's strong leadership.

Let me make a bit of a case on why I think Brandon is the type of leader that can keep a bad apple from ruining the Blazers. Exhibit A: the 2006-2007 season. Some may remember that we had a bit of a problem child in Zach Randolph. Brandon managed to wrestle away control of the team from Randolph and got us playing some better basketball and gave us all some hope for the future with his ROY award. This also might be used as evidence why we cannot tolerate a bad apple as we didnt win much that year and Randolph still got a lot of shots in the offense that were of questionable quality so Brandon was not able to fully real in Randolph.

A brief argument against bringing in any sort of questionable character may be the decision of KP to keep Miles away from the team during his rehab. KP, who I think has proven to be an excellent judge of character and very capable of crafting a winning culture, may not have been positive that Brandon would be able to take control of the team while having two bad apples to overcome. In KP and Brandon's defense maybe KP may have been playing it cautious as he did not know the full extent of Brandon's leadership, or KP may have been of the school that one ass is fine, but 2 are not.

To BE readers. Does this team have the leadership to tolerate a talented yet troubled player? You can answer thoughtfully in the comments or ignorantly (j/k) in the poll.

 

 

Poll
Can the Blazers tolerate a poor character player?
yes
20 votes
no
38 votes

58 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 16 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Starting next year, yes.

I think there is still too much drama with Greg and the media circus. Give it another year, and I think everyone is established enough to handle one bad egg.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 24, 2008 11:42 PM PST reply actions  

I agree.

I think the Blazers might need another year. The have sooooo many young guys on the team it’s just ridiculous , but I do think that Brandon has the leadership skills. Plus, guys like Rudy, Sergio, Aldridge, Blake, Pryzbilla, and Frye don’t seem like they have any chance of being influenced by a bad apple.

I have heard KP mention it before when talking about the Spurs and how he thought they could take anyone regardless of attitude just because of their overall level of character. I think the Blazers are pretty close to getting there.

by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 24, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

do you think the fans will go away

if we get an Artest type of player even if we are winning and we dont see any problems? I understand that we are all a little sensitive about the Jailblazers, but I doubt that the mercurial nature of fans and media will outweigh winning basketball games, especially if the player only has a troubled past, but is doing fine in Portland.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Dec 24, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

Maybe we could tolerate one, but why? I think there are enough high character guys out there that we don’t have to put up with that stuff anymore.

by AndrewD on Dec 24, 2008 11:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Must not read truehoop

Exact same story

Any other city and I’d be suspicious, but for some reason, it absolutely makes sense that someone in Portland on BE would get this from NPR first, instead.

Commenting on the story, though, guys are at different stages, as long as the guy is aware of his limitations, it’s generally not a big issue. For example, lots of guys on that 2006 Miami team could have been considered “bad apples”: Jason Williams, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, but because they were all aware of their limitations at that point in their careers, they could put it together.

The problem is when you get the guys that never “get it” or those guys younger in their careers when they haven’t realized that they’re not one of the best players in the league yet.

by Royster on Dec 25, 2008 12:01 AM PST reply actions  

thats what I get for not reading True Hoop anymore

should I take this down in light of your awesome link?

BTW I live in Albuquerque

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Dec 25, 2008 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Nah, leave it up

you make some good points about how it affects us rather than the NBA in general like Henry does. I agree with the idea of the study and the importance of chemistry and not having “bad apples”, but I believe that guys can evolve from being “bad apples” to contribute on top teams, which is why I gave the example of the guys on the Heat. There’s a huge difference between a Stephon Marbury, and an Antoine Walker. Antoine realized that he wasn’t an All star on that 2006 team and accepted his role. Even now Marbury still hasn’t gotten that there’s a reason he’s in exile.

by Royster on Dec 25, 2008 12:28 AM PST up reply actions  

definitely good points

I was hoping to generate a good discussion rather than trying to push and agenda, which I previously did with my other usernames when I tried to push to get Marbury here (j/k)

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Dec 25, 2008 12:44 AM PST up reply actions  

What about an off-season pot smoker?

Would that be a “bad apple”?

The true meaning of Christmas is the celebration of a never ending love . Not the love we think of in desiring or possessing someone else, but rather the conscious unconditional love which seeks only the perfection of its object and is, at the deepest level, the underlying and uniting force of the Universe.

by Love on Dec 25, 2008 1:32 AM PST reply actions  

Ass is in the Bible

which should be acceptable. Unless you meant something different, in which case you are walking a fine line and should have used "hindquarters". I think I’ll go read it again to see how much trouble you’re in.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You could hurt somebody in the first row with a shot like that" -
Mike Rice, Portland at Denver 12/22/08

by Blazer1342 on Dec 25, 2008 1:59 AM PST reply actions  

Maybe it’s just my imagination,

but Brandon doesn’t seem to mind a hard foul. But if a "questionable type" player has a "questionable type" hard foul, he seems so get a look of disdain on his face toward that player. So could he reel in a bad apple and cut out the bruised spots…maybe, but do we want to take a chance.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You could hurt somebody in the first row with a shot like that" -
Mike Rice, Portland at Denver 12/22/08

by Blazer1342 on Dec 25, 2008 2:07 AM PST reply actions  

Depends on what kind of "bad"

A guy can be a bad apple off the court and not disrupt the chemistry. But if he’s constantly riding his teammates, being late to practices, complaining about playing time, that’s hard to overcome. Can you imagine what someone griping to Greg about him not doing this or that would do to him? The rest of the team might rise to Greg’s defense – but what would it do to Greg?

I’m with Andrew above – why bother? We don’t need an outstanding talent with chemistry issues.

by jorga on Dec 25, 2008 8:11 AM PST reply actions  

We probably

should refrain from cashing out the pot smokers since that would clean out the NBA. Doesn’t it depend a little on the player? OK, that’s hyperbole but would you rather have Josh Howard who’s a user, or Ron Artest who appears not to use (we don’t really know their secret lives do we?)? BTW, I love Albuquerque. I lived there for years and still have a latent wish to move back. I’m reading “The Shape Shifter” by Tony Hillerman and now your post so maybe these are sign steering me back.

by oregonslee on Dec 25, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

You weren't really replying to me

since I’m not the one in Albuquerque, but just wanted to comment (O.T.) that one can really get a feel for the Four Corners area from reading Hillerman. Haven’t been in NM or AZ for many years, but I definitely want to go back.

by jorga on Dec 25, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's a good point.

Artest and Amar’e, for example, are very different. I think Amar’e would probably have a bigger impact on our chemistry, just because he demands shots.

I’d still want him over LMA though.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 25, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

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