at Dec 20, 2008 8:12 am EST
Bobcats offering Wallace to Kings for MillerThe Charlotte Bobcats' ongoing attempts to acquire a true big man to partner Emeka Okafor have led them to propose the return of Gerald Wallace to the Sacramento Kings, NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com
The Bobcats, sources said, want Brad Miller in return.
But the Kings are unlikely to bite. They've had some interest in recent years in reacquiring Wallace — who has blossomed into a versatile and productive swingman at both ends since he was claimed by Charlotte in the 2004 expansion draft — but they also have a surplus of wing players at present ... too many to take on the four years and nearly $40 million left on Wallace's contract after this season.
Source: ESPN.com
10 months ago
RipCity
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If Bobcats offer Wallace we should make a offer to them
Who can we package for Wallace?
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
by RipCity on Dec 20, 2008 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
They want a center in order to move Okafor back to his natural power forward position
They already tried it last year moving Hermann and Brzec (who they should have kept) for Mohammed (useless). Not really confident that an offer of Travis and Frye would cut it for what the Bobcats need, and KP is probably very reluctant to put Joel in the offer.
One thing is really funny: Larry Brown hates everyone who is on his team when he takes over, and loves guys not on his team. Until they actually are. That Diaw/Bell for Richardson trade was pretty strange.
by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah they traded Richardson.
I think they could of got a better deal for Richardson.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
by RipCity on Dec 20, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Joel?
A.) Joel is never going to be as good as he is right now.
B.) If Oden doesn’t pan out the Blazers probably won’t win championships anyway.
C.) Wallace is ranked 4th in rebounding rate among small forwards who play more than 15 minutes a game. Joel rebounds a lot, but so does Wallace.
D.) The Blazers would still have RLEC, Webster, Outlaw, and Frye, giving them an opportunity to pick up another, cheaper, big man.
E.) Our perimeter defense is worse than our interior defense. Wallace is one of the best perimeter defenders in the game.
F.) Nate doesn’t play Joel much in the fourth quarter anyway. The Blazers might be better off trading Joel for a guy they can use in crunch time.
G.) Wallace can defend guys like Lebron, Kobe, Mcgrady. We haven’t really had some one who could really do that in a while. That also relieves a lot of pressure on Roy on the defensive end.
H.) Wallace is a complete terror on the fast break. A unit of Sergio, Rudy, Outlaw, Wallace, and Aldridge would be able to run with the best of them.
I.) Transition defense. We haven’t had it in a while and Wallace would fix some of that.
That’s just my take. I could go on and on.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 20, 2008 12:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
eh
We need Joel at least for this year. With Greg routinely getting 18-25 (yes that is a huge gap) min’s a game, we would be playing without a center for all of those extra minutes. And Joel keeps the pressure off of Greg, which is important. Joel is ridiculously cheap for his 18+ PER right now. Wallace would be better than Joel but we need a “back-up” center right now, more than we need a 3rd SF (he would obviously start, but we would continue to have our glut at that position, and we saw last year what happens when Frye or LA is our center).
And getting a decent center is harder to trade for than a great SF, look at Memphis, Minnesota (AJ is great but is IMO a PF), Indiana, the Wiz, the Knicks, Miami, the Bucks, OKC, and the Bulls, none of them have a Center like Joel and that isn’t for lack of wanting.
Jaws were hitting the floor as Greg repeatedly attempted to tear the rim off the backboard...
by TheOdenator on Dec 20, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was one of my ideas when I recently thought about "Durant or Oden" again
If we had taken Durant, we would play him at SF so all our problems there would be solved (at least to the point we wouldn’t make trades there. Maybe we wouldn’t even have picked Batum). But we would have a hole at center (with Raef also injured) that would be very tough to fill. Just like with point guards, teams usually don’t give up their star big men. Maybe we could have traded for someone like Kaman or Camby, but a truly outstanding center is hard to find if you don’t draft him.
by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
Joel is going to get worse in a hurry. Centers on the wrong side of 30 tend to slip pretty fast. (there are some exceptions) Right now Joel is a huge asset, but in a couple years he might be too banged up to be much of a help at all. If the Blazers management is looking to the future then a guy like Wallace fits into their plans a lot more than a short term solution like Joel. It’s not like you lose a lot of defense, since Wallace is such a great defender. Nate likes to go small , so I’m not sure how much you are going to miss Joel’s 20 minutes a game.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 20, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the thing
with Pryz and Oden sharing C minutes say 33/15 mpg, both can be fresh and they will not be as beaten down as they would be if they played 36+ minutes. Add to the fact that it allows them both to be a lot more aggression as they do not have to worry about fouling out, with a lot of depth at the C position.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 20, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a fair point
Joel is 29, so you’ll probably see 2 maybe 3 more good years out of him? And I can see how Wallace would be a better fit as a player in the long term.
The most important long term plan, I think, is the development of GO, and Joel helps a lot with that, giving him some rest, teaching him rebounding and defense tricks etc. But right now I do see a need for a good center to be “behind” greg on this team, and I am not sure if the RLEC trade would get a guy as good as Joel, and I do see a need for a guy that good at this point in our team’s development.
Jaws were hitting the floor as Greg repeatedly attempted to tear the rim off the backboard...
by TheOdenator on Dec 20, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have anything to back up that assertion?
Centers don’t break down after 30 any more than anyone else, unless they’re injured. In fact, I would say they are lesslikely to break down, because age robs athleticism and quickness, which are less necessary at the center position than strength and bulk.
The only centers I can think of who have just lost it are those that were undersized and depended on their athleticism (think Ben Wallace). Other than that, Duncan is having the best year of his life, Shaq is still a good NBA player, Zyndrunas Ilgauskus is having a great year, Rasheed Wallace is still effective, Brad Miller is still a good player…this centers lose it after 30 thing is something made up.
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on Dec 20, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
Joel Pryzbilla
00-01: 33 games played
01-02: 71
02-03: 32
03-04: 5
04-05: 76
05-06: 56
06-07: 43
07-08: 77
Throughout his career Joel has averaged 49 games a season. In fact, Joel has missed 40% of all games due to injury. That’s not good.
Centers don’t break down after 30 any more than anyone else, unless they’re injured.
That might be true. Unfortunately, Joel has been injured a lot over his career. Most players start to decline after 30, especially those that rely on athleticism. I guess Joel has a decent basketball IQ, but I’m not sure what other bankable skills he’s going to fall back on once age kicks in. Certainly his defense will suffer as some of his quickness fades.
Is he going to get better? Is he going to learn how to shoot a turnaround jumper at 30? Are we going to see Joel develop a skyhook perhaps? I just can’t imagine a guy who misses 40% of games becoming more durable in the ninth year of his career.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 21, 2008 12:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bad move
we have the best C rotation in the league and having that defensive presence in the middle is invaluable. Add to that for what he does he is actually underpaid. A legit 7footer with great rebounding, defense and just enough O to keep that threat there.
Besides all we have to do is trade
RLEC
09 1st
to Sac
Sac trades
MIller to Cha
Cha trades
wallace to Por
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1026454556&teams=222330&te=&cash=
maybe throw in Ike of some more or less picks if that did not get it done.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 20, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That looks efficient. Everybody gets something they could use
Not sure what Sacramento really needs, apart from the obvious thing that Hawes is their center of the future and they want to move Miller at some time.
by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sweet and simple
we get a stopper, Cha gets a big to allow Okafor to go back to being the pf that he is and well Sac is sol anyways, as i was reading that their economic situation is dire at best.
Sac has been crippled buy this housing mess and there was a good story i was reading in the NY times i think, about the econ and the NBA.
They might just want to take the $ and run with a pick included they can rebuild, but that may lead to another minute crunch as if we get Wallace we would have TO, Webster, Batum AND Wallace at SF so we would have to include 2 of our SFs to make it work.
Webster and Raef have not played a minute (pretty much) so trading both of them does not solve the minute crunch caused by adding GW. We need to move like 3 for 1( RLEC, and 2 of TO, Webster, Batum) and then run with just those 2 sfs for the rest of the time what ever the combo. The same principal applies to trading Frye and RLEC neither one of them are getting any minutes so losing them only exasperates our minute crunch.
Nate will not want to acquire a starting pg halfway through the season as teat is a surefire way to screw the chemistry up and a SF is the most likely IMO.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 20, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a slighty revised version of SpyderRyder's above trade proposal.
FROM CHARLOTTE
SF Gerald Wallace ($9,500,000)
FROM PORTLAND
PF Raef LaFrentz ($12,722,500)
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
FROM SACRAMENTO
C Brad Miller ($11,375,000)
TO CHARLOTTE
C Brad Miller ($11,375,000)
TO PORTLAND
SF Gerald Wallace ($9,500,000)
TO SACRAMENTO
PF Raef LaFrentz ($12,722,500)
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=5564541026&teams=302322&te=&cash=23:22
Instead of a future first-round draft pick, Joe and Gavin Maloof may rather split a check from Paul Allen.
by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
more for Sac
The fans could not accept a cash expiring contract only. We would need to return a promising player and a #1. Bayless plus a #1 and take back Bobby Brown to fill our 3rd pg.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=347255634174541026&teams=2230232322&te=&cash=
by blaze jose' on Dec 20, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Joel Przybilla is, without question, a necessary cog in the machine that is the Portland Trail Blazers.
Except for Brandon Roy and Greg Oden, I find Przybilla to be the only untradeable member of the Blazers.
I, however, am of the opinion that Kevin Pritchard should try his absolute damnedest to swing a deal for another true pivotman (e.g., Rasho Nesterovic), which’d add depth at center behind Oden and Przybilla. Pritchard, as far as I’m concerned, should not only look to obtain another low-post player, but also try to make an earth-shattering trade whereby the team upgrades itself at point guard by acquiring someone such as, oh, Kirk Hinrich.
FROM CHICAGO
PG Kirk Hinrich ($10,000,000)
FROM INDIANA
C Rasho Nesterovic ($8,400,000)
SG Stephen Graham ($826,269)
FROM PORTLAND
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
SF Martell Webster ($3,771,133)
PF Channing Frye ($3,163,769)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
SG Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
TO CHICAGO
PF Channing Frye ($3,163,769)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
SG Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
TO INDIANA
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
SF Martell Webster ($3,771,133)
TO PORTLAND
PG Kirk Hinrich ($10,000,000)
C Rasho Nesterovic ($8,400,000)
SG Stephen Graham ($826,269)
The Chicago Bulls would need to release a couple of players — such as scrubs like Cedric Simmons and Michael Ruffin — to create roster space in light of the transaction, although that wouldn’t be a huge deal. For the Bulls, this trade would provide the franchise with a potential long-term replacement for Ben Gordon — who might leave as an unrestricted free-agent next off-season — as well as give the ballclub some extra depth on its frontline to go with Joakim Noah, Drew Gooden, Aaron Gray, and Tyrus Thomas.
For the Indiana Pacers, Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster would be a productive backup forward tandem behind Troy Murphy and Danny Granger in Jim O’Brien’s fast-paced, run-and-gun offensive scheme that relies a lot on long-distance shooters. Rasho Nesterovic, who’s had an outstanding season thus far with the Pacers, is nevertheless expendable due to young center Roy Hibbert sitting down ever so patiently in the background while waiting for his time to shine.
For the Blazers, this trade combined with a three-way deal whereby the franchise snags Gerald Wallace for Raef LaFrentz’s heavily insured expiring contract — along with $3,000,000 in cash considerations — would help pave the way for possible championship glory.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=5564541026&teams=302322&te=&cash=23:22
STARTING LINEUP
C: Greg Oden (24 m.p.g.)
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge (36 m.p.g.)
SF: Gerald Wallace (32 m.p.g.)
SG: Brandon Roy (36 m.p.g.)
PG: Kirk Hinrich (24 m.p.g.)
BENCH
C: Joel Przybilla (16 m.p.g.)
C: Rasho Nesterovic (8 m.p.g.)
PF: Shavlik Randolph (12 m.p.g.)
PF: Richard Hendrix/Chris Richard/Jermareo Davidson (NBDL)
SF: Nicolas Batum (8 m.p.g.)
SF/SG: Rudy Fernandez (20 m.p.g.)
SG: Stephen Graham (Inactive)
PG: Steve Blake (12 m.p.g.)
PG: Sergio Rodriguez (12 m.p.g.)
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
Six Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Gerald Wallace
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Kirk Hinrich
Two Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Gerald Wallace
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Steve Blake
Four Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Rudy Fernandez
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Steve Blake
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
Four Minutes
C: Rasho Nesterovic
PF: Shavlik Randolph
SF: Nicolas Batum
SG: Rudy Fernandez
PG: Sergio Rodriguez
Two Minutes
C: Joel Przybilla
PF: Shavlik Randolph
SF: Gerald Wallace
SG: Rudy Fernandez
PG: Sergio Rodriguez
Six Minutes
C: Greg Oden
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
SF: Gerald Wallace
SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Kirk Hinrich
I’m sure most people will find fault with my disdain toward undersized combo guards who are ball hogs offensively (e.g., Bayless), soft power forwards who shoot too many mid-range jumpers (e.g., Frye), dim-witted tweeners with horrible basketball IQ and court awareness (e.g., Outlaw), short power forwards with limited athleticism who flat-out suck at defense (e.g., Ike Diogu), and injury prone small forwards with so-so shooting percentages (e.g., Martell Webster).
Unfortunately, though, my respect toward hard-nosed pivotmen who are top-notch man-to-man low-post defenders (e.g., Nesterovic) — as well as off guards who can efficiently stick it from beyond the arc, while also effectively defending both backcourt positions (e.g., Hinrich) — most likely isn’t shared by everyone.
by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Boy,
I’m sure glad KP is GM, some of these trade proposals even make me think Kevin McHale is a better GM than 99% of fans.
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on Dec 20, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok that is horrible on so many levels
Hinrich is not that big of an upgrade over Blake especially for the price. I see what you are saying with the D but at the PG slot it is impossible to defend anyone anyways. It is not like the 80-90s where it was hand to hand combat, now it is more like touch football.
I will take Blake at half the price and only a little less ability.
Say what you will about Bayless but he is very similar to Jack, albeit on steroids, who last year was on the court for most of the 4th Q operating off Roy. People can say what they will but having another driver/slasher in Bayless will be invaluable in the 4th q of a game 7.
Also why basically throw out Frye and TO who are out 2nd and 3rd PFs for someone who will be inactive in Grahm and allow Shavlik who will do much the same as the current players? Diogu do what you want with, I don’t care but even as small as a Webster fan as I am I still think he can net us more in a trade or play better than the package we would be getting in return. I do sometimes worry tat he has gotten 2 foot injuries back to back and they tend to be chronic but if that is the case no one will trade for him anyways.
As for Rasho coming why would we want to trade for him when
1) he will be a FA this summer and we could grab him for the MLE or less and even if we did why pay $16-17m/yr for 3 Cs one on a rookie contract? $5m/yr for 8mpg at center? does not make any sense
2) If we did want another banger, we could bring over Freeland or pick up a solid C with the 15-20th pick ala, Hendrix, Milsap, Dorsey or Arthur, for only $1m/yr
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 21, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna argue the rest
But a lil’ less than the MLE for even a 3rd string center as decent as Rasho would be just fine… well, provided it was under normal circumstances and we were over the cap. So, after next off-season. If we used nice cap space for a 3rd string center, yeah, that’d be lame.
Centers will always be expensive, and having a decent 3rd stringer at center (much more than decent really, when compared to other 3rd stringers) who can fill in for the INEVITABLE injuries to our main centers would be a very nice luxury.
Of course, ya gotta worry about how the player would handle not playing and all that, but in a perfect world where the player doesn’t mind free money to sit on a bench and play when needed, it would be a very nice luxury to have and worth the millions.
Even when Oden makes 20+ million a year, having 2 MLE-sized contracts backing him up is a good thing. For a championship contending team that doesn’t mind being over the cap, that is. That should be us.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Dec 21, 2008 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On a more reasonable wavelength than my harebrained trade proposal, one way to get a ...
good, cost-effective third-string center would be through the 2009 NBA Draft. With true centers such as Andrew Ogilvy and Cole Aldrich are projected to be selected in the middle portion of the first-round next year, Kevin Prtichard and the Portland Trail Blazers’ scouting department should take a good look at them.
by AK1984 on Dec 22, 2008 12:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah nbadraft.net has us taking
PSYCHO-T!!!
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 22, 2008 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BRING BACK JESUS!!
…er Steven of Nazareth he could be Joel lite and how could you not love that mug
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 22, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Joel Freeland should come over next year and sign on as the Portland Trail Blazers' ...
third-string power forward. Even if Freeland isn’t ready for the rigors of the NBA, he could spend a season with the Idaho Stampede in the D-League and prepare himself for the future.
Yet, with regards to the backup power forward spot, it’s definitely a trickier situation. Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, and Ike Diogu have proven themselves unworthy of that slot, so somehow filling it with an adequate player during the upcoming off-season is an important issue.
Although Kevin Pritchard will probably use at least one the Blazers’ second-round picks on some untested foreigner (e.g., Hank Norel), I’d rather see him select a domestic player who’s versatile offensively with a decent high/low game — as well as a solid weakside help defender, of course — so he can mesh with Joel Przybilla on the second unit. Heck, Connor Atchley comes to mind.
by AK1984 on Dec 22, 2008 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Gerald Wallace is a good move
But to trade Trout and Martell for Rasho Nesterovic? Trading your starting SF and backup PF/SF for someone who would be your 3rd string center doesn’t make much sense. When you think about the potential Trout and Martell have to become quality players and that Nesterovic is on the downside of his career then you really see how terrible a trade this is.
by trailblazersfan on Dec 21, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TO is back up PF
Batum needs to sit and learn. Line up with that trade:
Blake/Serg ay PG
Roy/Rudy at SG
Webster/wallace at SF
LA/TO at PF
GO/Pryz at C
that’s 10 deep and at least WCF baby.
by blaze jose' on Dec 20, 2008 5:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Edit- add Bayless and a #1
make this happen!!
by blaze jose' on Dec 20, 2008 5:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The only way I would be OK... not happy, but OK with trading Pryzbilla is if we got Ajinca and Wallace
I doubt MJ would do it since he gave up a lot to get Ajinca but then again he is one of the worst executives of all time. Giving up Pryz would hurt us this year and next but Oden and Ajinca on the same team could be the best center tandum in the NBA for the next 10 years. Also if Oden gets enough speed eventually to play some PF he and Ajinca could exist on the court at the same time one day.
Again all I am saying is if we gave up Pryz I would want Ajinca in addition to Wallace; that doesn’t mean I want to give up Pryz.
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Dec 20, 2008 6:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why would Sacramento not do this trade?
Miller for Wallace? It seems like a no brainer to me. Wallace’s contract is not horrible.
by JasonT on Dec 21, 2008 8:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Especially
For a team that is rebuilding like Sack-of-pimentos.
It CAN’T be that simple, Petrie is too smart to pass that up. Even though they have 500 SFs, none are as close to as good as Wallace, so of course you make that deal. It’s like not drafting Deron or Paul because you got Telfair, but who would be that crazy?
Morty Pants
by Mortimer on Dec 21, 2008 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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