The Trade Post to end All Trade Posts
I truly mean that. I propose a One Month Moratorium on all trade posts for this team. This is not a fantasy league, it is the NBA. We have a team, right now that is raising eyebrows across the NBA. And in a very good way. Solid Team play and great Team chemistry. Why in heavens name would we wish to change that? That being said, to the poll. Two choices, to simplify matters. If you wish to add the reason why you voted the way you did, feel free
1 recs |
108 comments
Comments
Original Poster
The reason I propose most trades is an attempt to get rid of certain assets that have little to no effect on our team chemistry(Bayless, RLEC, Outlaw/Webster, Frye & Draft picks).
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In return
For someone who contribue greater like a full time PG or SF. Even a backup PF who is a great defender.
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Proof positive
Of the need for a moratorium.
If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.
"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me
by coastrider on Dec 2, 2008 2:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no way they take that deal
without Rudy
by Qyntel Woods on Dec 2, 2008 5:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I needed a good chuckle this a.m.
well done S4R, well done.
It's too late to agree with me, I've already changed my mind.
by bow4meow on Dec 2, 2008 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Post this one at Canus-hoopus.
I wouldn’t be able to stand his little fat shaking shimmy after each banked in three pointer.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Dec 2, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
In general: Bill Simmons take, and I think this time he is absolutely right about this:
The NBA’s off-court subplots, in many ways, have become just as fun as anything happening on the court. Because of the Internet, sports radio, team blogs, better information guys and everything else, the whole trade/draft/free-agent market has practically evolved into its own sport to follow. We love reading mock drafts, making up fake trades, arguing about GM mistakes, discussing the latest moves and everything else. That’s just become part of being a hoops fan.
In particular: There is a lot of trade talk (some useful, some not) because this is virtually the last year we have significant cap space and cheap assets. Maybe a little rest will remain for 2010, depending on what KP does now. Then the Blazers hopefully extend Brandon, LaMarcus, Greg, and all the other guys one by one and the cap space is gone for the foreseeable future. We will be maxed out, significantly over the cap and even over the luxury tax. We will be like most of the teams with multiple stars. We will be like the Spurs. The Celtics. Our most important assets to improve the team as a GM will be the mid-level exception, bi-annual exception and a late first round draft pick, to attract an “exciting” veteran every once in a while as a backup for the bench and hoping to discover a diamond in the draft rough. I hope KP doesn’t get bored.
The future is now. KP can’t be caught sitting on his hands this year before the deadline and/or in the off-season. And he won’t. There will be changes to really set this team up moving forward. After that, I have no problem if the Blazers won’t appear in any major trade rumors in the media for the next five years.
by Norsktroll on Dec 2, 2008 6:20 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
cant nessecelery agree with that
Its not to suggest KP wont make some sort of deal, but there’s now reason at all to make any kind of significant overhaul. Maybe the suggestion wasnt about wholesale or marked change, but some sort of super-deal is hard to fathom.
Peering into the cats eyes, one possibility chrystalizes. A deal involving Bayless, Frye, and say it isnt so Outlaw + of course peripheral junk (Diogu, Randolph) to sand off the edges for veteran leadership role player(s) not including any super-star to contaminate the chemistry and future investments.
Don’t be shocked if KP makes no moves this year at all, and just keeps his hands warm.
It's too late to agree with me, I've already changed my mind.
by bow4meow on Dec 2, 2008 7:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will be surprised
if KP doesn’t at least use the cap space to take someone’s bad contract in exchange for taking future draft picks, like Seattle did with Phoenix a year ago.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 2, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Although I find you to be one of the most articulate and reasoning BE'ers,
I think you clanged this one off the front rim.
(i.e, agreeing with Bill Simmons is a bad idea. He’s entertaining, but our own Dave is a much better analyst of the game.)
Simmon’s job is to write. Take away “The NBA’s off-court subplots and the whole trade/draft/free-agent market, mock drafts, making up fake trades, arguing about GM mistakes, discussing the latest moves and everything else.” and you’ve just made his job that much harder. He’s a biased source.
I’ll agree that there is a significant segment of fans who enjoy this sort of stuff. (At least 25% based on the poll results.) I would argue that the percentage is inversely related to how well a team is performing. For example, on what grounds could Portland fans argue over GM mistakes? Why talk about the draft when we are only a quarter into this season’s play? Most of all, why talk about fake trades when you have a young, exciting team to root for and support? Fake trade discussions are for fans of teams like Memphis, OKC and the Clippers. Blazer fans have far better things to spend their time on, like jscot’s breakdown of the Knicks .500 record or jsnake’s research into Portland’s record in relation to LaMarcus’ FG%.
At least that’s what I prefer reading about.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My point is that there is a demographic that enjoys both.
On-court is still where it matters and we should discuss, analyze and argue that. A lot. But the off-court stuff is also interesting: The business aspect of the sport, legal and financial matters, team building. So I think Simmons is right on that account when he writes that has become a major part of the game. I wouldn’t argue he understands the on-court stuff very well (or as well as Dave). He views it like a fan. His job is not to be John Hollinger or David Thorpe. His job is to write entertainment (and that was his job before ESPN). And a significant part of pro sports is drama.
One might argue that wanting to make trades shows impatience since players can develop. Development is a big part of the road to success (coaching and training), in particular on a young team. But developments are hard to predict. Even NBA owners are impatient (that Boston turned around in one off-season added to that). We can use both to our advantage. It’s not fantasy basketball (something I e.g. care little for). It’s thinking up ways to take your team to the next level. Most of those will never materialize, and thus could be considered “stupid ideas”. Some are more stupid than others. But that’s no problem. Eddison came up with dozens of ways to not build a light bulb. You can be sure KP and Tom Penn have come up with hundreds of ways how not to improve the Blazers. At some point, they will come up with the right way. Ideally, that point would be now when they have the means.
One last point: I’m not only a fan of the Blazers, but of basketball in general. So I also enjoy reading about other teams here and elsewhere. Even if they are not good.
by Norsktroll on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with trade proposals is that most people fail to use a little common sense
I can’t remember who it was, but about a week ago he wrote that the whole purpose of a trade is to get more value back than you are sending out. That’s not how it works in real life, but that’s how most people attempt to accomplish with their trade proposals. The Pau Gasol trade looks a lot more fair this year, now that his brother is playing for Memphis.
I’m not an expert, but all this place needs is some guidelines. Is the trade fair, are you writing this just to get a rise out of people, does the trade make sense for both teams…
See my first and last question are practically the same, but if a person answered no to the first or last question or yes to the second one, then they probably shouldn’t post it.
I’m in the same boat as Dave. The stupid trade proposals are no going to go away. If you don’t like them, ignore them. There is so much crap going up here anyhow, so having stuff that you automatically ignore is actually a good thing.
by tominhawaii on Dec 2, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
A serious post from TiH
This must be a big deal.
I agree about the guidelines, though, except I think it’s more a matter of people dealing with trolls. No one honestly believes Marbury is worth more than a week old ham sandwich at this point, so those posts are just obvious trolling. If people can just learn to leave them alone and wait for them to disappear off the sidebar, everyone would be a lot happier.
Making a full fanpost for something inane like Raef for Lebron is also pretty irritating, but what are you going to do about people who are just discovering how to use the trade machine? I have no problem with someone posting a trade with an obvious slant towards the blazers, but at least try and justify it from the other team’s POV and remember that even the “fairest” trades proposed here would almost always be laughed down immediately by fans of the opposing team.
by Royster on Dec 2, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
10 Rules
for trading, plus a tradal
http://blog.cleveland.com/cavaliers_corner/2008/02/ten_rules_of_talking_trades.html
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tradal
by OBJuan72 on Dec 2, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I liked the ten rules for trading
He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel
by 22baylor on Dec 2, 2008 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom pretty much wrote my response.
With a good second from Royster.
The categories of trade proposals that I find the most irratating are:
a) “Hey, look at this neat trade I just cooked up on TradeMachine! What do you think?”
- seeing it from new folks a couple of times is fine. I can ignore it or suggest in a polite manner that they put some thought into future proposals. Seeing it over and over from the same people makes me want to swat it like a pesky fly.
b) trades based on unsupported reasoning, usually falling into the categories of
- we have two many guys and we need to thin the roster
- we have glaring holes in our lineup that we need to fix if we are going to win a championship
and my (least) favorite (which is a variation of the one above)
- we need to add that “dominant” guy to push us over the top.
Most of these, as Tom points out, are seriously lacking in common sense. For example, how can you argue that we have young, valuable talent that can easily be dealt to get that “star” player and at the same time justify the need for such a player? If our guys are good enough to get top shelf talent in return, why wouldn’t we want to hold on to them?
I agree we should stay away from name calling, but on the other hand, stupid is as stupid does. People should be ready and willing to defend their ideas and proposals. When someone calls them on it, they should have to take it or get out of the kitchen.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, let's get this right.
- we need to add that "dominant" guy to push us over the top.
These guys are more likely to write “we need to add that ‘dominate’ guy to push us over the top,” which I see written constantly on here for some reason.
by pualo on Dec 2, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you are right
trade talk will settle down when some players get contract extensions (and others don’t). – Elgin
He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel
by 22baylor on Dec 2, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
The Fan posts are so clotted up with this trade suggestion drivel that I now rarely bother to even look off the main form. Sure, during the offseason there’s nothing much else to write about, so that’s fine but since one out of a thousand trade suggestions might actually happen I find this trade suggestions nothing more than fantasy.
Why not write about how to get Roy 100 points in a game? It’d be just as useful.
Maybe trade suggestions could be moved to the Fanshots during the playing season.
Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.
by LaughingJon on Dec 2, 2008 6:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I chose "no more polls"
But the choices above remind me of a push poll. A push poll is where someone calls you up during election season and asks you something like, “Would you vote for Bill Sizemore if you knew that he was recently arrested for having sex with George Michael in a public restroom near Albany?”
Few people are going to say yeah I’ll vote for the dude. Likewise, few people are going to vote for an option that makes voting for more trade proposals sound like voting for 24/7 reruns of American Idol.
Apparently some people like the occasional trade proposal. The poll above should reflect that by providing a positive-sounding pro-trade-proposal option to choose.
"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."
MT Suit, 11/25/08
by MT Suit on Dec 2, 2008 8:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't fit Sizemore's M.O.
After all, a public restroom is paid for by the Oregon taxpayer – that would go against his whole anti-tax ethos.
Now, on the other hand, in a restroom at Portland Int’l Airport – that’s believable.
by DonkeyShins on Dec 2, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but the dude IS in jail right now
so it’s kind of believable, isn’t it? most people are just gonna look at the headline about him being in jail and later on when they get that push poll call they’re gonna put it all together and figure well that must be why he’s in jail… that’s how a lot of people form their opinions because they are too harried in their hectic lives to search for the truth.
"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."
MT Suit, 11/25/08
by MT Suit on Dec 2, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I got so happy when I read about sizemore
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KP can sit this year out trade-wise
And still have one of the most active trading averages of all the current crop of NBA GMs. I am not an expert (as those who read my postings will surely attest) but I don’t feel that there is a big rush by KP to do any deals. Now, on the other hand, if the right opportunity came along, I’m sure he’d get it done in a heartbeat and leave the ‘opposing’ GM feeling like he just got taken in a 3-card monte game.
But I think he’s going to watch the team evolve for a bit.
by DonkeyShins on Dec 2, 2008 8:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts too
Rlec has value next offseason just as it does this season as we sill still be under the cap. If I’m not mistaken and we just resign our rookies we will remain under the cap in 2009 and there fore can take back more than we give out ruirght up to the end of the 2009-2010 season. At that time(think last minute adjustment for sweepstakes), it may be very possible to find a better deal than what is currently being offered. There is no reason to hurry into any player personal decisions. In addition, our guys are playing very very well which also meeans sitting on one’s hands may be the best avenue to take.
by NWfan on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted yes.
I’d like a break from them, the same way people wanted a break from the Pritchslap.
I don’t think they should be gone permanently, as they can be good, useful, relevent discussions. But 5 lame tradeposts per day while we’re playing so well seems over the top.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 9:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Personally....
I am tired of trade posts too, but I am about equally tired of the “No more trade talk!” posts. The anti-trade post threads are just another fairly useless fanpost on a pile of fairly useless fanposts. People won’t stop conjuring up trades, so there is not much point to wasting more space trying to convince them to change their ways. As long as people make it obvious by the title that its another trade machine dream, it makes it easy enough to skip over…
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Dec 2, 2008 9:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I always find it a curious thought...
that we’re “wasting space”.
Can we really waste space on the internet? Isn’t putting a new fanpost up pushing off the bad posts that don’t get rec’ed into Feature-hood?
I totally hear what you’re saying… I feel the same way. But then when I think about it I find it kinda funny. I mean, if everyone thinks there are so many poor posts, we shouldn’t be too bummed that new ones are pushing them away, right? Especially when, if it is a really good post, it will get rec’ed, right?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly just following the original posters overal OP in regards to some posts being a waste of space....
I don’t really mind the trade posts, in fact I voted no in the poll because everyone has a right to post what they please. I just wish they were posted in the fanshots to try and get a little more turnover down there and a little less turnover in the fanposts…
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Dec 2, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My first sentence is funny for so many different reasons....
I am sure all of the english teachers around here want to break out the red pen…
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Dec 2, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just trying to translate it...
what did you mean?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like poking yourself with a stick.
It feels so good when you stop.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At least it's better
than a lot of the flame posts, insults and sarcastic wit that some people throw out – no names. Quit trying to ban or limit discussion related to the Blazers.
by oregonslee on Dec 2, 2008 9:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why would we make a trade?
Because it just might win us a championship, that’s why.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Dec 2, 2008 9:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
With the same logic then...
one could argue that it could cost us a championship, as well.
The only scenario I can compare our situation to is the Spurs. They got Duncan, then drafted TParker and Manu, therefore openning their huge Championship window. They didn’t trade to get there.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if you trade assets that have no effect on chemistry
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that even possible?
Does each player have an effect on chemistry?
Well, expect maybe Shav and Raef… maybe Diogu…
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless, RLEC, Webster, Draft picks & most recently... Outlaw
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Webster and Outlaw ...
would both have a major impact on chemistry.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If only unless we would get a top SF back, we would lack elements at that position :)
by Norsktroll on Dec 2, 2008 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
I would only send outlaw/webster away in return for a good SF
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But getting a good SF..
doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to have good chemistry.
Web and Outlaw have been here quite a while. It would no doubt send ripples through the chemistric fabric of the team if either of them got shipped out.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
how do you know you don’t like broccoli? you’ve never tried broccoli.
I have never seen one iota of evidence that making a midseason trade screws up team chemistry. Did you know that gum doesn’t really stay in your stomach for seven years? yep it gets digested right along with all the Doritos, and Coke.
Watching Trout wobble around the court like a baby deer, and shoot and shoot and shoot… , makes me think that he might be as big a chemistry issue as 95% of the people we could bring in.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever seen a team like this team?
One of the big, ongoing stories from last year was that these guys’ chemistry, how well they got along on and off the court.
These guys are first and foremost people, young pro’s at that. You can’t honestly tell me that trading someone who’s been with the organization for several years and is well liked and respected by peers will get no reaction from teammates.
That’s not to say it would end up being good or bad, just that bringing in someone new, someone different doesn’t guarantee what was there before.
You bring up an interesting point, though. How often do we even see mid-season trades? There might only be 2-3 worth talking about per year, wouldn’t you agree? Maybe we see so few mid-season trades because GM’s are fearful of disturbing chemistry? It’s not like there aren’t 20 teams in the league that couldn’t benefit from getting better after all, right? Why then don’t we see more trades from the muddled middle teams?
Also, it’s hard to compare this to sampling broccoli. If you try broccoli once and realize you have a distaste for it, you simply never eat it again. If you trade to get or to move someone, you can’t just untrade. You might be stuck with what you got… maybe for a long time and at a high price.
As for Outlaw, he’s shooting nearly 3 less attempts per game this year from last year despite playing more minutes. Him, Blake, and Rudy all play similar minutes and all have nearly the same scoring average, but Outlaw takes one more shot per game than them. He turns the ball over less than both of them. He gets more rebounds and is shooting better from distance right now than both of them. He’s doing alright. You think guys are mad or resentful that he gets one more shot per game?
I used to have on the “Hate Outlaw” glasses… then I took them off and realized that he was actually a decent player. He’s not perfect. He’s not my favorite, not even close. He still makes me uncomfortable at times. But he’s alright.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KP
wouldn’t trade for locker room cancer. Anyone he would trade for you can fully expect him to be an upstanding citizen
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this was really my point.
I can’t imagine anyone we might bring in being a high risk chemistry disruptor.
Also, I am not saying outlaw is necessarily bad for chemistry, just that I am not sure that these “ripples” you speak of would have any effect were he to go.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the only thing
There are guys who are well-liked, and guys who are just ok.
But these guys are professional. That isn’t the big issue with chemistry and mid-season disruptions. The big issue is on court chemistry.
Knowing where the guy likes to catch the ball. Recognizing before it happens the situation where a guy is going to get beat and knowing where you need to be to help him out. Learning exactly where he wants that pick set. Learning when he’s going to make that pass to you. Learning to recognize that Greg does own that rebound and you can break half a second earlier. Etc, etc, etc.
These are things you don’t even think about, it just happens as you play together. Then, you trade away your teammates for some guy who, while he’s good, doesn’t even know the offense, or the defensive schemes. He’d better be really good to make up for that. Because all of a sudden, you’re back in training camp again, just trying to learn what the coach wants you to do, and hoping you can get used to playing with this guy quickly before the games that count start.
That’s why chemistry matters and mid-season trades are not all that common, nor all that profitable sometimes.
Look at Phoenix last year compared to this year. The Shaq acquisition looked atrocious last year. By the end of the year, they were starting to get themselves together and perform better, and they are definitely better now than right after the trade. It took Dallas a while to regain some chemistry after the Kidd acquisition, too (besides the fact that the trade made them worse).
The reason this didn’t zap LA was because the loss of Bynum had already messed up their chemistry.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 2:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We already have a top small forward
in Batum …. or at least soon to be.
by TwoDeep on Dec 2, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
just like martell right?
he is unproven.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And exactly how do you know this?
Seriously Dane, you make a declarative statement – “Bayless, Webster, Outlaw and LaFrenz have no impact on team chemistry.” Care to back that up?
An argument could be made for Raef and Bayless perhaps. Even if they are well liked, their contributions to date have been limited and the players all know it is a business. But Travis and Martell are intregal parts of this team. It’s my understanding Outlaw is seen by both Roy and LaMarcus as their best friend on the team. If you want to be taken seriously, then you need to be able to support your arguments.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So Far
Webster has contributed nothing. Outlaw hasn’t been anything to brag about.
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what does that have to do with chemistry?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget it FT.
It’s like trying to teach a horse to sing.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
horses can sing?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I'm aware.
With the possible exception of Mr Ed.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the reason so many trade suggestions have come up is simply due to the fact that
we are in such a prime position to make a big trade with so much talent and RLEC, along with recent trade rumors ( ie, Conley for Outlaw ). This is one of the side effects of such a popular blog and educated fan base. While I agree that there have been an amusingly large amount of trade suggestions lately, we need to keep perspective that we are lucky to have such an active blog. I’ve been looking at the other SB blogs for my favorite East Coast teams and they are pretty barren. I would rather have too many fanposts to wade through than too little.
by dario argento on Dec 2, 2008 9:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Alternative option
Just as there is a daily junk drawaer, I think that a daily trade idea drawer may help organize the clutter. One place for all trade ideas that way no one has to read about trades if they do not want.
Ahh peace and harmony is restored.
by NWfan on Dec 2, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have no ploblem with trade posts
& I really don’t think it would be right to ban them either. But I agree they should be marked in the title or posted in one place so that people who don’t want to read them can skip them over.
by volcompro11 on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For some posters, coming up with trades is fun.
I propose that they all should be filed under the Fanshot section.
by parkinglotj on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think filing under the title "Junk" is too vague.
One needs to have an idea of what the post is about. There has been great debate about certain trades and sometimes it is deserving of more than one day of chatter.
by parkinglotj on Dec 2, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good call
I second that.
Anytime you have one of the biggest expiring contracts in the league PLUS an obvious surplus of talent and not enough minutes to go around, trades are going to be discussed.
Nobody has to read them – but they are better off in the fanshots, unless it’s a detailed breakdown of numerous options, or whatever.
But for people saying that thinking about trades is dumb, somehow, just because the Blazers are playing really well, I don’t agree. A trade won’t necessarily happen this year, but I’d say it’s more likely than not. KP has said he wants to play the RLEC card, and I think he will. There’s nothing wrong with speculating about how he should.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 2, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I propose a one month moratorium on junk drawers
Because I don’t like them, I’d rather read something else, and I don’t really see their point—so I don’t want to be bothered by their existence on a blog I read, and my personal preference should determine what everyone else is allowed to say and read.
…which is the same reason why anyone would vote to ban trade suggestions.
by TimG on Dec 2, 2008 10:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Trade proposals
are a way for people who aren’t skilled at analyzing what is happening on the court to be involved in a creative way.
They may not be able to tell you why the pick and roll isn’t working, or how we managed to hold down Chris Paul and shut down Wade, but they can come up with a trade idea that no one else thought of.
But it would be nice if they were all in one place.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"skilled at analyzing"
jesus ! come on, none of you have any NBA experience, I doubt 99% of you didn’t even play in college.
I mean… I’ll read Dave & Ben’s reviews but are you really calling yourself a skilled analyzer. This is ridiculous, you are just as bad as armchair GM’s. You think others can’t do what you do. Neither has any effect on the team, this is just insane.
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have loads of experience
3 years in grade school and 1 year in middle school, plus I weas the best player on my wrestling team in high school. I will admit I got schooled in pickup Bball in college by my next door neighbors who utterly befuddled me and my roomate by pick and rolling us to death.
by NWfan on Dec 2, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
jscot may not have any more NBA experience ...
… than any one else here, but he has repeatedly shown he possesses solid analytical skills. Having such skills can usually carry over from one field to another and is often independant of specific experience in a particular field.
For exanple, why do you feel that Dave and Ben’s analysis is acceptable? Are you sure they played pro or college ball? What if you found out they never picked up a ball outside of a pickup game? Would you stop reading?
There are very few people here who post at the consistently high quality of jscot. Attaining a level even close to his would be a good goal for you. Right now it’s pretty much the hyperactive grade schooler verses the distinguished university professor.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...
Only reason I read Dave & Ben’s reviews is because they are on the front page. For the most part they do a good job. Just saying that it is dumb to be assaulting trade situations when its all just FANS on a forum. I mean, its not like I am posting here to be a critically acclaimed basketball analyst so I really couldn’t care less :)
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have considered this -
one of the reasons BE is one of the more populated blog sites is due to the quality and thoughtful nature of its fans. Dave (and now Ben) bring us here, but we then stick around for the intelligent conversation and enjoyable banter.
The fact you may not care how what you post is received doesn’t mean others do not as well. Anybody who can log on to a computer and type can come here and throw out comments. What differentiates the average BE fan is their habit of wanting to offer something interesting for others to consider and comment on.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are right
It would be dumb to assault all trade discussions, because it is all just fans on a forum.
Fortunately, I didn’t do that.
I did say I would like to see them all localized, at least during the season, rather than have 1/3 of the fan posts taken up by various trade proposals. The fact is, major mid-season trades are extremely rare (happens maybe twice a year, on average) but proposals for them take up about 1/4 to a 1/3 of the fan posts around here. That’s a little bizarre.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 2:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
There are very few people here who post at the consistently high quality of jscot.
See, folks, this is where bribery gets you. I only had to pay timg56 a few times, and now he posts like this out of habit.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 2:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now might be a good time ....
…. to let you know the rate is going up.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 3, 2008 6:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chill out, Great Dane
I’m not shooting at you.
We get kids on here who don’t hardly know what a pick and roll is but can still come up with creative trade ideas. It is a way they can get involved and feel like they are part of the community.
I didn’t say every trade proposal comes from people like that. I didn’t say my analysis is GM level (in fact, I post a lot of rubbish and have fun doing so). I didn’t say I’m smarter than people who make trade proposals. I said trade proposals are a way for people like that to be involved.
You’re right, 99% of me didn’t play in college. I don’t know if 99% or 100% or 0% of you played in college or not. I don’t even care if you coached. Lots of players and coaches are very high in BBIQ, and lots of them actually say and do a lot of stupid things. When I’ve interacted with your comments, I’ve done so on the merit of the comment itself, not on whether or not I think you are Jack Ramsay or Stephon Marbury or somewhere in between.
If you choose to personalize that comment I made and make it into an insult against yourself, or a boast about any alleged analytical skills I might think I may have, I suppose that is up to you. It was intended as neither insult to anyone nor a boast, and when I look at it today in retrospect, I don’t believe the actuality of it violated that intent, either.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 2:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
your argument is flawed.
There’s no way to know that everyone who’s ever put up a trade proposal isn’t analytical.
In fact, they just might be too analytical from a micro standpoint.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 2, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I had no intent to say that, and didn’t say that. See my response to Great Dane above.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 2:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
vote with silence
I have been reading BE for while, but this is my first post. I guess I am jumping in because it is time to stop watching from the sidelines, and also because it seems to me that the only thing that is as tiresome as many of the ridiculous trade posts is the posts about how ridiculous trade posts are. Its like stopping to debate an inflammatory evangelist on the corner: you think you are going to show them what’s up, but the jokes on you. The only reason he tells you that you are going to hell is so you stop and talk about how you are not, or that hell doesn’t exist, or that he’s going to hell. It’s trap that perpetuates exactly what you didn’t like in the first place. The trade posts usually seem pretty clearly marked and are easy to avoid. If there are real trade rumors to discuss or, occasionally, interesting thoughts on how the RLEC business will play out, then censoring trade posts would eliminate real debate and information. What would be truly refreshing—and might actually solve the problem—would be to see trade posts pass with virtually no comments … unless, of course, they are worthy of comment. Debating debates about debatable trade posts just multiplies exactly what you don’t like—if you disagree feel free to debate.
by unemployedreflection on Dec 2, 2008 10:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I love it.
you should make a post about stopping all of the posts that advocate to stop all trade posts.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
Reasonable and well thought out discussion. Hope you’ll contribute more.
I agree that ignoring some trade suggestions would be preferable. I agree that complete bans on trade discussion would be silly and counter productive.
Side points:
Maybe the evangelist actually thinks you are going to hell and wants to rescue you.
Maybe he’s actually trying to impress someone else and doesn’t care how you respond.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 3:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Yeah
Another thing that won’t stop the trades. Half the trade proposals start out with, “Hi I’m new and had an idea.” There is no way to keep them from posting a trade proposal.
by tominhawaii on Dec 2, 2008 11:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
make them read the last 5 flagged posts before they can make a post themselves.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 2, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can't stop them, you can only hope to contain them
but that is likely futile as well.
I think people like posting trade ideas because it’s a way of feeling like they are involved and part of somethng, rather than just a passive observer. Plus, the 0.1% of times they call one that actually happens, they can say “hey, I predicted that!”
I don’t mind reasonable trade posts that point out the merits of the trade for all sides, aren’t involving a completely unrealistic number of teams and/or players, and look like they are fairly even. In short – they pass the laugh test. It’s the troll trade posts (Marbury) and the “hey let’s get LeBron straight up for RLEC” posts that annoy me.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Dec 2, 2008 11:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Classic Coastrider
Step 1. – Post at 2 in the morning.
Step 2. – In one paragraph of just barely over the minimum required number of words demand cessation of certain BE activities.
Step 3. – Await haranguing post from me.
There is a certain comfort in this ritual.
by begottenson on Dec 2, 2008 11:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lessee...
1. Sometimes 2 am is when I get to read the blog.
2. Was not counting words or demanding anything, just voicing an opinion.
3. Who are you and why should I care what you write?
If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.
"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me
by coastrider on Dec 2, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
duh
Does KP ever put a moratorium on trade talk?
All together now: No.
So why should we?
Why wouldn’t we want to continue to try to make the team even better?
Sure, it will get better anyway, as the young folks get some experience and some time working together. They are better this year, partly because KP stood pat.
But to just stop talking about trades altogether? That’s not going to happen. – Elgin.
He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel
by 22baylor on Dec 2, 2008 12:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the goal is to ban trade proposals.
It’s to try and set a certain minimum standard. Such a standard would leave room for new fans exercising a common practice associated with new fans – trade proposals – yet improve the overall quality of the proposals we see.
Based on the poll results, an overwhelming majority of the fans (who voted) seem to feel there is an excess of trade proposals. I would amend that to say we feel it is an excess of stupid proposals lacking in any effort or thought. Cutting down on the latter is not the same as wanting to eliminate the former.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
coastrider's second sentence is
he proposes a one-month moratorium on all trade proposals.
OK I said Ban. We’re getting into semantics now. – Elgin.
He who life can no longer surprise raises his eyes, beholds a planet unknown. - Peter Gabriel
by 22baylor on Dec 2, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In an effort to consolidate the backup 4 spot.
How bout this trade?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=383277227542015&teams=22221818&te=&cash=
Note, I don’t think we can do this until we are certain of what we are getting at the 3.
by premthegrem on Dec 2, 2008 1:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh jeez,
I’m sorry, I thought this was the trade drawer. My bad.
by premthegrem on Dec 2, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
unintentional comedy FTW
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Dec 2, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's prem...
so it’s intentional comedy.
(I think he’s French.)
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot better than a lot of the proposals we see.
Throw in an unprotected 1st round draft pick from the Knicks and maybe I’d consider it.
I don’t think it is necessary. But at least it is a defendable trade.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can give you my opinion...
… but I’d like to know also why you would do it.
I think it’s a wash. Not necessarily a bad deal for Portland, as it does not give up anybody who would be considered key. But not necessarily an improvement.
I haven’t seen Aurther play in the NBA. So that’s an unknown for a player I have seen and who I think could start for several teams. Basically we give up a known quality for an unknown. Not Diogu?
Bayless for Conley. To be honest, I really haven’t caught much of Conley either. (I pretty much only watch Blazer basketball) He is more of a true point than Bayless. So if you believe in Conley and Channing is the additional price it takes to pry him from Memphis, then it sounds like a reasonable deal.
I wouldn’t do it because I don’t know enough about Conley to believe in him. But that’s more a case of my lack of knowledge than it being a bad trade.
So, why would you do it?
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Memphis wouldn't do it
until Bayless starts to show something on the court. You’re asking them to take two guys who are combining for six minutes of PT a game right now, in exchange for the #4 pick last year.
That’s the problem with most trade proposals around here. No reason for the other team to do it.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 3:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one that thinks TheGreatDane17 lives in a dream world?
Every one of his trade proposals goes out on huge limbs and assumptions that we don’t even know are true… ie, not looking at the trade from both sides, assuming player chemistry (or lack of), making huge deal out of “the Oden connection” and “spanish connection”, all of which are grasping for straws.
If you're paddling upstream in a canoe and a wheel falls off, how many pancakes fit in a doghouse? None! Ice cream has no bones!
by Arby on Dec 2, 2008 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Experience
If you have played with someone one the court for your whole life. You know there tendencies, even if you haven’t played with them for awhile, pretty soon it will re emerge. I guarantee this is the case with Conley & Oden. KP wouldn’t even be interested in a PG that isn’t top tier outside of Conley. Why ? Because he could make Oden a much better player.
Hell, look at Sergio/Rudy. When one of them is not on the floor, the other suffers(varying levels).
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 2, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You just posted
the reason why mid-season trades often don’t happen.
By the way, by the end of this year, Blake will have played almost as many games lifetime with Oden as Conley, and NBA games against NBA centers count a lot more than high-school ones against kids who might be 6’4".
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 3, 2008 3:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more a case of youth.
He just sounds young. It’s easy to get excited, the younger you are. Nothing a little tempering and experience won’t help.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The constant pimping of trades of guys who are playing well
and working hard to improve feels, well, disrespectful to them. Yeah, I know trades will happen, people move on, but so many trade proposals seem to need to justify themselves by wallowing in the team’s and the players’ shortcomings.
It’s my own emotional reaction as a fan I guess. Off season trade talk bugs me less. The constant drumbeat of “let’s get rid of this guy for someone better” is just a downer.
by raoulduke on Dec 2, 2008 9:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 




















