NBA's Best SGs: Kobe, Wade.... and Roy? (UPDATE: More evidence!)
by Trail Blazer on Dec 19, 2008 11:20 PM PST
47 comments
Yeah, I'm buying into the new level of hype for our boy Roy. You've all heard it, 52 points. You heard it from TNT, ESPN, the talk about Roy is inescapable. The question everyone is asking: Has Roy entered the top teir or NBA players? "Well, how would you define top teir?" Is the first question that comes to mind. Is it the stats you put up? Is it the highlights you create? Or is it how you lead your team? Or could it be a combination of them all? Here is how I would answer the question.
1st- 3 pts 2nd- 2 pts 3rd- 1 pt
Shooting the Ball- They can all score, but how do they compare?
- Putting up the Points- (Points per game) : 1. Wade (28.0) 2. Kobe (25.0) 3. Roy (23.4)
- Taking it to the hole- All three are good in this category. While all three players rely on their ability to drive, most of Kobe's points come from jump shots. I think that Wade gets the nod over Brandon by just a hair. Really close but: 1.Wade 2. Roy 3. Kobe
- Shooting the long range- Wade is 0.247 from 3 point range. Kobe is 0.295. Roy is 0.364. Roy's percentage is the best (by far) but to say he is a better shooter then Kobe... it just doesn't feel right. Until I saw this: three pointers per game- Kobe 1.0. Roy 1.0. Wade .8. Yup, it is surprising but: 1. Roy 2. Kobe 3. Wade
- Converting at the line- (%FT) : 1.Kobe (0.873) 2. Roy (0.848) 3. Wade ( 0.758)
- Scoring with out forcing- (%FG) : 1. Wade (0.481) 2. Roy (0.471) 3. Kobe (0.461)
1.Roy (12 pts) 2.Wade (11 pts) 3.Kobe (10 pts)
So on the outside, it seems Roy would be last in scoring ability, but if you look closer, it seems that he actually out shoots both Kobe and Wade. Wow! (Understand that this isn't " scoring ability, but more of a hybrid between all aspects of shooting)
Being a Teammate-So they can score, we get it. But how are they spreading the floor?
1. Wade (7.2 assists per game) 2. Roy (5.2) 3. Kobe (4.3)
Cleaning the Glass- Sure they are guards, but shouldn't they be able to crash the boards as well?
1. Kobe (5.4 rebounds per game) 2.Wade (5.1) 3. Roy (4.6)
Playing Under Control- They all have the ball in their hands a lot, but can they control it?
1. Roy (2.00 turnovers per game) 2. Kobe (2.54) 3. Wade (3.83)
In the Clutch- Do they come through when their team needs them?
1. Roy, so far this season, he has been the most clutch player of the year. The recent scoring frenzy he has been on has left that miracle against Houston in the dust, but that is a shot that wont ever be forgotten. 2. Kobe, he hasn't really hit the huge shots this year. Unfortunately for him, his team has been so good, that they haven't needed him in the last seconds of the game. Tonight they needed him, and his shot did fall. 3. Wade, his team hasn't been able to get into many clutch situations this year. A lot of games have been blowouts, wins and losses for the Heat.
Here is a sweet chart that gives more proof of BRoy's clutchness. (The original post of this chart can be found here. Thanks to munsonbh for posting that!)
The "Awe" Factor- How many times does he make the highlight reel?
1. Kobe, his flashy dunks mixed in the fall away three pointers always seem to been tainting NBA's Top 10. This is what makes Kobe such and acessable player. 2. Wade, he also has his fair share of plays making it to the Top 10. His dunks and acrobatic flying layups are always a hit. 3. Roy, he just isn't flashy. His game winners might make it to the Top 10, but other then that, you just don't see many left handed layups in the Top 10. This is the reason why Roy hasn't gotten the love he deserved before his 52 points burst.
The Teams- How do their teams due?
1. Kobe (Lakers: 21-4) 2. Roy (Blazers: 17-10) 3. Wade (Heat: 13-12)
The Total: 1. Roy (15 pts) 2. Kobe (15 pts) 3. Wade (12 pts) (When a tie happens, Blazers always win the tie breaker. Everybody knows that!)
So, Yes! Roy is a top tier player in the NBA! There is my answer.
7 recs |
47 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Some gripes I have
While I want to say Roy is more clutch than Wade, I can’t. For this season anyways, maybe Roy is, but if based off just careers, obvious Kobe, Wade, then Roy. But even this season, I may have to give it to Wade. You’re wrong about that. Wade is pretty clutch and he’s had to do a lot (everything) to make sure his team wins in the fourth quarter.
I don’t know how the awe factor really matters statistically.
I don’t think you’re giving Wade enough credit here. He’s the leading scorer and is by far the most dominant in that aspect and setting up the offense. He shoots 1% better than Roy and 2% better than Kobe, gets to the line the most as a guard, and scores the most in the paint which I think makes the driving category you put a HUGE advantage for him.
Having a 50 point game is impressive, but if we just sidetrack for a bit. Roy can’t keep that kind of scoring up obviously. So don’t judge his “ascendancy” on just volume scoring in one game.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Dec 19, 2008 11:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It always comes down to points, doesn't it?
No matter how much lip service fans and experts pay to the notion of complete players, leadership and the intangibles, when it comes right down to it almost everyone looks at points.
No wonder players get selfish. If you’re not in their scoring class, you’re not in their class.
by raoulduke on Dec 19, 2008 11:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And wins
One thing that Kobe, LeBron, and Wade all have over Brandon is that they’re proven winners. All three of those guys just won gold in China. Kobe and Wade both have rings, and LeBron took a team to the finals. Brandon has been in one All Star game thus far, and while there’s no doubt in my mind Brandon will help lead the Blazers to those types of victories, he just hasn’t yet. He still has to reach the playoffs.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he’ll get there (both top tier status and the post-season). But he’s not there yet. While the other three were on the ’08 Olympic team, Roy strikes me as more of a 2012 olympian.
by Ghostface_Przybilla on Dec 20, 2008 1:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I smell another Western Conference Player of the Week...
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Dec 19, 2008 11:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Subjective ranking
1. Kobe (consistent over his career)
2. Wade (could even be #1 since the Olympics)
3. Ginobili (once healthy)
4. Roy (only one way: up)
5. Johnson (could also be the co-4)
6. Carter (don’t laugh, I have just seen him put up 30+ again)
7. Allen (oldie but goodie)
8. T-Mac (if perfectly healthy, he could be higher)
9. Martin (also will go up. Last year he had stats that rivaled MJ in terms of percentages and trips to the line)
10. Mayo (the guy is unreal already)
I don’t really see Kevin Durant as a shooting guard, even though they play him there. He could be considered top 10 if his team didn’t play so bad on most days. Also barely missing the cut: AI, Hamilton, Gordon, Terry. Where is Rudy? I would say top 20-25, higher on good days but he also can be a non-factor.
by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 11:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would switch Roy and Ginobili.
I’m no Spurs hater, I used to really like watching them and especially Manu. I think Roy is making the leap this year to become the clear 3rd best, and I think he’s showing he’s making that leap RIGHT NOW not later in the year.
Ginobili is an amazing talent and at times can be unstoppable, but with the way Roy has been playing this season after a somewhat slow start (for him) he’s playing better than ever.
I understand giving Ginobili the benefit of the doubt, he is a champion and deserves respect for his career but I think if you’re only looking at this year Roy is better thus far and will be even when Manu is 100%.
by Bskey on Dec 20, 2008 2:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this year Roy>Ginobili
for sure…it kinda helps that the spurs got off to a semi slow start and he was hurt, but roy is having an awesome year. I didn’t think he’d average 20+ ppg.
Over their careers tho Ginobili>Roy.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 20, 2008 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like how Roy has responded this week to this argument about Ginobli being a better SG.
They are different types of players
that play a different role on very different teams.
Why has Ginobili typically averaged 14-16 a game? Because he has a guy named Tim and a guy named Tony on his team.
That said, he’s been known to blow up when he needs to fill that offensive role (ie, regular 30-point games, including games of 37, 37, 46, and 44 last year).
“I like blocks,” Fernandez said.
by joelor on Dec 11, 2008 1:03 PM PST
by tevisthe4th on Dec 20, 2008 4:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Carter (don’t laugh)"
I’m not laughing! I live in NJ and I’ll put Carter up with anybody as a scorer, athlete and clutch player. Just a little bit behind Roy and others in terms of team leadership. (Devin Harris has stepped into that role.)
by Kaboomm on Dec 21, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Martin and MJ???
no when your career average in ast. and rebs. are 1 and 3!! No No do not put put them into the same sentence and remove him from the top ten.
by SamGoody on Dec 21, 2008 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God Brandon has figured out the 2 simple truths that will change everything...
Truth #1
Don’t wait until the 4th quarter to punish the opponent. Put the pressure on them early, and see if you can’t get their players in foul trouble. That’s what always happend to us the past few years isn’t it? Especially our bigs.
Truth #2
Free throws are easy points. Karl Malone scored 25+ points a game for years, because he was making 8-12 free throws every night. I love that Brandon got over 20 attempts against the Suns. I just hope he doesn’t get hurt.
Can I buy you a fish sandwich?
by silkybrown on Dec 20, 2008 2:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Free throws are easy points?
Try taking a Shaq elbow to the head, a push by Lamar Odom into a cameraman, or wind up going from running full speed to eating floorboard in .6 seconds and tell me that free throws are “easy points”.
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on Dec 20, 2008 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Top tier
comes with success in the post-season. As much as I want to say yes, I am waiting until the Blazers make the playoffs before giving Roy elite status. Sorry.
by koyote on Dec 20, 2008 5:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i agree about post season success being an essential component to rating the relative elite-ness of a player. this is BR’s third season, it is way too soon to be comparing him to the icons of the game, but he has shown the potential to join them, sooner rather than later too.
by revdjweb on Dec 21, 2008 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the NBA today, here's a breakdown of the upper tier shooting guards.
LEVEL 1
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
LEVEL 2
Brandon Roy
Joe Johnson
Vince Carter
Manu Ginobili
Level 3
Ray Allen
Tracy McGrady
O.J. Mayo could eventually reach the third level of upper tier shooting guards, Kevin Martin didn’t make it due toinjuries and poor defense, Andre Iguodala isn’t well-rounded offensively, Ben Gordon isn’t well-rounded defensively, Richard Hamilton and Jason Richardson aren’t complete players, and Allen Iverson is a joke.
by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 6:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice list...
but i’m not sure why you say the Hamilton and Richardson are not complete players? Ray Allen and J Rich have almost identical stats – FT%. I’d put both of them in the “Level 3” spot.
Ray Allen
Height: 6-5 Weight: 205
2008-09 Statistics
PPG 18.8
RPG 3.6
APG 2.6
SPG 0.7
BPG 0.1
FG% 0.493
FT% 0.916
3P% 0.389
MPG 35.9
Jason Richardson
Height: 6-6 Weight: 225
2008-09 Statistics
PPG 18.6
RPG 4.3
APG 2.4
SPG 0.9
BPG 0.2
FG% 0.443
FT% 0.750
3P% 0.468
MPG 35.4
by In Walks Rudy on Dec 20, 2008 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PER rating says its:
Wade
Roy
Kobe
Carter
Ginobili
Johnson
McGrady
I would swap Roy and Kobe, and also Ginobili and Carter, but otherwise I think PER is pretty accurate here.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Dec 20, 2008 7:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
that's my list
honor rasheed wallace
by Zaron5551 on Dec 20, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Per also says BROY is the 6th best player in the entire league thus far. If he stays aggresive I bet he will stayin in the top 10 all year.
Here is my list.
Kobe
Wade
Roy
Ginobili
Carter
Johnson
No one else is worth mentioning.
This is Jack burton from the PorkChop Express and I'm talkin to whoever's out there.....
by Jack Burton on Dec 20, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say a healthy TMac is worth mentioning...
… but he’s not healthy enough to be ahead of any of those 6 IMO.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
some douche prasing Roy
by 5kiLL5 on Dec 20, 2008 8:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
lol
your link needs that “-j3g” in it or it doesn’t work. Nice video :)
by In Walks Rudy on Dec 20, 2008 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch out for O.J. Mayo.
That is all.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 20, 2008 8:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He could be "the next Brandon Roy" ;-)
That’s why I already put him in or at the edge of the top 10. Ultimately, he might even have more point guard potential than Brandon and if they find a better SG than PG in the draft they might put him there in Memphis (at least on offense).
by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Humbly from Sacramento
You could argue Roy at #1. Kobe is the greatest, but as a teammate he has at times lacked over his career. Wade rocks, but there is at least some doubt as to whether or not he can stay healthy over long stretches.
At the beginning of this season, we could have had a pretty good debate about whether Roy or Kevin Martin was better. Now Martin is hurt, Roy has taken it to the next level, and the debate is tabled until further notice.
Greg Oden is going to become a very good basketball player, perhaps an all star. LMA is still only 23 and is going to get better. But Brandon Roy is your franchise, your cornerstone. He is the reason that Kevin Pritchard will one day sit in the lead car of a championship parade, while Minnesota fans burn Kevin McHale in effigy (well, hopefully just in effigy).
I know that we have Kevin Martin and that we need help up front, but if I could choose anyone off of the Blazers for the Kings, I would choose Roy and re-build from there.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2008 11:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wanna switch fan allegiance from Kings to Blazers? ;-)
Just kidding, thanks for the kind words. While I’m sure nobody wants to hear it, Roy has about as many injury concerns as Wade, so that should be no reason to rank him higher. Roy uses his body more wisely, doesn’t jump around so much and crashes less to the floor than Wade so he suffers less impacts, but while Wade now has built-in knee and shoulder problems Roy has built-in heel (spur) and knee (meniscus) problems. That being said, with his character and skills he is an ideal guy to build around.
I hope Rudy can become a “Kevin Martin light”, when you watch his highlight clips from the ACB and KMart clips from about two years ago the similarities are pretty uncanny from the slightly unbalanced jumper to the way they attack the rim. But Rudy still has quite some development ahead of him to become as dangerous as Kevin.
by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as posted as above
their is no debate about K. Martin and B. Roy, Roy has the more complete game and is the better team player please look at stats and records to substantiate this.
by SamGoody on Dec 21, 2008 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he waznt debating anything
his admition that roy had taken it to the next leval sais as much.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Dec 22, 2008 1:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So I was bored and was over at Canis Hoopus reading their tale of woe
It’s interesting to see the perspectives on Foye and Roy. Roy, on his way to bona fide super stardom, Foye being widely seen as a complete disaster.
Now, coming out of college, ver few folks saw a major difference between the two. Maybe the majority considered Roy the better player, but it was close.
My question – how much credit do the coaches and the organization and the teamates get for the difference in development between the two. How good would Roy be today if he was wallowing in Minnesota?
by raoulduke on Dec 20, 2008 11:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that Roy would have been as successful in Minny,
but what makes him so special is his thirst to get better. That combined with the great teamates he has here equals the sucess we are seing right now.
@('.')@
by JTDuck22 on Dec 20, 2008 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The more I watch Deron Williams, the more I am convinced they are the same player...
Foye?
Oh well.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Thing You All Are Forgetting Revealed!!!!
Roy>>>>>>>>>>>God
by Qyntel Woods on Dec 20, 2008 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This kind of post
is somewhat offensive to people of faith. You might want to take that into consideration in future.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Dec 20, 2008 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he had a misquote
To quote the Pixies song “Monkey Gone to Heaven.”
If Man is 5…
If Man is 5
If Man is 5
Then the Devil is 6
Then the Devil is 6
Then the Devil is 6
And if the Devil is 6
Then God is 7
Then God is 7
Then God is 7
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
by tominhawaii on Dec 21, 2008 4:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Thats the type of quote taken out of context on other boards that people laugh at.
I would say tho that God would probably dig Brandon’s humility over alot of these other arrogant blow-hards being mentioned. Just another reason to be a fan of #7.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
by loyal_blazer on Dec 21, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted no
because there wasn’t a “not yet” option. I think Roy will get there, and soon, but top tier players are made in the playoffs. I would venture to guess that when this season concludes he might just be there…..but not yet
by SalemORguy on Dec 20, 2008 2:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The other category: Been there, done that
Kobaby and Wade have rings. Kobaby and Wade have gold medals. Kobaby and Wade done it for seasons and show it during the tough NBA post-season where everyone who has been there and done that gets there and does it harder.
While I love your analysis, I am looking for longevity. If Roy keeps this up … MVP in waiting. Waiting for it and been there, done that? Two different categories.
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
by LaoTzu on Dec 21, 2008 3:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Haha
This logic is laughable. I’m not even going to attempt to say why your analysis is completely flawe,d
by BlazerKoolAid on Dec 21, 2008 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Your comment is vastly unhelpful
to the original poster and to the rest of us who might have been interested in your perspective.
Blazer's fan since '84, Currently exiled in San Antonio
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
by HurraKane212 on Dec 21, 2008 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Dec 22, 2008 1:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been making the comparisons for awhile...
Roy plays just like these two guys. You have to include Roy in the conversation.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Dec 21, 2008 2:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
totally agree
Roy is now in the conversation all over the place as an elite player
Where "The Natural" Happens.
by Blogaholic on Dec 21, 2008 2:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
its wierd
that analysts say joe johnson before saying brandon roy. Brandon Roy is heads and shoulders better than magic.
theres no doubt in my mind hes the 3rd best 2 guard
"im a buffet of goodness"-Channing Frye
by burritoman on Dec 22, 2008 1:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
wether or not people think the convo is to soon
its happening, you can wish it wasnt all you want, but it is. and people dont have these conversations on accident. this is just the begining, as there has allready been national mention on pti for example, to whitch brandon humbly responded that he has not yet earned the right to be included in that list. but its inarguable that hes at least playing as well as those names, and surley has value that not all of them even have.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Dec 22, 2008 1:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
