Too little, too late - Dec 19th Trade Post

by as11osu on Dec 19, 2008 8:21 PM PST Comment 46 comments

Just had a random thought, and wanted to post it in the daily trade post, but there hasn't been one started today.

Earlier this month, I suggested that Bryan Colangelo had better hop on the active GM's list, or his team was going to be in serious jeopardy. Today, that has been magnified by an embarrassing loss to the Bennet City Hijackers (thanks BS) by 8 points. I know one game never a season makes, but this team was already stranded out on the wire about as far as it could go. Anyways, back to the real question at hand.

How does this situation effect the two franchise guys? Chris Bosh isn't going to be on the team past 2010, and most likely will start to aline himself with the door, in the next couple of months probably undermining any progress the Raptors try to make as an organization. Chris Bosh is the main piece that in my opinion HAS to be traded. If this team waits out the situation and ends up getting nothing for Bosh, it'll be Colanelo's greatest mistake as a GM, even more so than drafting Bargnani #1.

The other key piece of course being their franchise level talent at point guard, Jose Calderon. He was just signed this offseason, and that might give them a little more time to make the decision, but I can't see that being the Raptors best play in this circumstance. Lets for a second see where this might go.

On the trading block you have a 27 year old point guard in his prime, coming off a breakout season, being coveted not only for his ability to shoot, but for his ability to maximize any half court offense. He's innately gifted in making the right pass, taking the open shot, and getting the ball to the players when and where they need the ball. The Raptors regardless of how any of this works out, probably won't be a player for the playoffs for another 3 years.

At that point you have a 30 or 31 year old point guard thats on his last legs, as the team you're building is an up and comer. That players value has decreased severley over the years, both from age and from playing for years on a lottery team that has little chance to win. It stands to reason, the best they can get for Calderon right now, right this second, gives them the best chance to maximize their rebuilding efforts.

Where oh where are we going to find a good trading partner for one of, or both of these players? Is there a team in the NBA that has an excess of young talent, future draft picks, expiring contracts, and the kind of talent that fits into Colangelo's vision on an NBA team?

Any wild guesses out there?

Also, feel free to post any general trade thoughts or ideas here...

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As posted in the junk drawer, looks like Krstic is signing in OKC and the Nets (who have his rights) won't match

OKC already has 15 players. So they either need to waive someone (Steven Hill likely), or make a (small) trade.

by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 8:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Worst match ever

Aside from Durant and Westbrook there isn’t a player on that team I’d want in our rotation.

by as11osu on Dec 19, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Green is good.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 19, 2008 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No.

Teams rarely gain anything when they trade superstars (or top tier point guards for that matter). The Raptors are better keeping Bosh and hoping he stays in Toronto, just like the Cavaliers are better off keeping James and hoping he stays in Cleveland. Teams aren’t going to be willing to give up much for Bosh for the same reasons that the Raptors would want to trade him. He might leave in 2010. Why would you want to rent a superstar for two years?

by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 19, 2008 8:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Partly true

Teams rarely gain anything when they trade superstars

The problem with that is if and when Bosh leaves, because he will leave (100%). Would you rather have something for your troubles or less than nothing (a team in utter chaos broken beyond repair). Also, if Bosh were to sign an extension with the new team, you could get something of great value in the trade. If he doesn’t sign an extension, you’re still going to be getting multiple first round picks and a couple expiring contracts or young talented players.

by as11osu on Dec 19, 2008 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you are looking at the whole picture.

A.) It’s not a 100%. You can’t tell the future, and it’s still a couple years away. If the Raptors start doing well Bosh could stay.

B.) What can the Raptors even get for Bosh? If they shop him, every team in the league will know that Bosh is probably going to leave whatever franchise that gets him. Why would you trade for that? If Bosh is 100% going to leave the Raptors who would he stay with? The Knicks maybe, Cavaliers? It doesn’t make any sense. The Raptors are better off trying to improve their team to the point that Bosh will want to stay in 2010.

C.) The Raptors would lose a crap load of money. If Bosh leaves, ticket sales tank, and the economy is bad enough that the Raptors might be in horrible financial shape by the time they get good again. The idea of going through near financial ruin on the hope that you might be good again in a couple years seems silly to me.

If Bosh doesn’t want to play in Toronto then he won’t want to play in Portland. Why rent Bosh when LMA still has a chance to be just as good in a couple years?

by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 19, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I posted about Bosh a couple weeks back.

I didn’t think it was likely then, and it’s not likely now, but this is the absolute bare minimum it would take.

Bosh Trade

The bottom line is, not only do superstar’s rarely get traded, but Toronto’s already been burned horribly by one (VC). Short of Bosh actually coming out and demanding a trade and guaranteeing he’ll leave, I don’t see them even discussing moving him. And even then, as we saw with Kobe, it usually takes even more than that for a superstar to get moved, although Kobe was a special case with the no trade clause and all.

by Royster on Dec 19, 2008 8:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The cheapest one we could hope for would probably be something like this

Trade of LMA, Rudy, RLEC for Bosh and filler (Adams or Graham). But I don’t think Bosh is really on the block. Toronto needs a better wing player, not trade one of their best two players. And KP is not looking to move LMA either.

by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

my idea was just based that I really didn’t see them moving him this year, but he’d gain a ton of leverage in the offseason by demanding a trade, but since that almost never happens, and would be completely out of character for him, it’s in the ‘basically impossible’ pile.

The main issue is, since neither team is looking to trade Bosh or LMA, it would take something seismic like that to get talks started. If Colangelo HAD to move him, then I could see him looking at us, and wanting to snag LMA and Rudy (although probably more). But even if he would demand a trade, Toronto would just probably hire a coach of his choice and try to snag an extra player for him, a la Mo Williams with Lebron, before actually trading him.

by Royster on Dec 19, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i would consider

a trade like this

I don’t have any love of Bargnani but I was thinking that they may want to ship him along..

id much rather consider a deal for calderon than bosh

Boycott Rose Garden Concessions!!!
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/8/657044/boycotting-rose-garden-con

by idoltime on Dec 19, 2008 10:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

no way they do that

it was reported earlier that they wouldnt trade Bargnani for G. Wallace. They sure as heck wont trade him along with Calderon for outlaw and blake.

Being a Blazer fan is fun!

by Blazermaniac77 on Dec 20, 2008 1:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

what’s the deal? with that? I’d think they’d just want to try and get anything.. but sometimes management doesn’t share the same view of players as the fans.. i know Bargnani seems to get less love from Raptor fans than Outlaw has been getting this season..

Boycott Rose Garden Concessions!!!
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/8/657044/boycotting-rose-garden-con

by idoltime on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bryan Colangelo wouldn't consider signing off on that trade proposal for even a nanosecond.

No matter Colangelo’s alleged feelings about Andrea Bargnani as a prospect, that’d be a swindle of a deal due to the Portland Trail Blazers acquiring Jose Calderon — who, by the way, surely isn’t a favorite of mine due to his porous defense — for virtually nothing; it’d probably cause some fans across Canada to burn Jerry’s kid in effigy, too.

by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 6:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry for the late write back

Im in England and where I have read BE, I havent signed in for days. I got that trade tid bit for the Basketbal Jones who is based in Raptor Nation.

Being a Blazer fan is fun!

by Blazermaniac77 on Dec 23, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I want Andre Igoudala.

That is all.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 19, 2008 10:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Calderon would be great too...

But it’s all unlikely.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 19, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A bit small for the small forward position

And his contract is huge and in BYC. Even constructing a trade that remotely makes sense and would work isn’t easy. Here is one, but not really likely Philly would like it even if they get picks.

by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 11:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say it was logical.

I just think he is the kind of really good player who would defer to Roy. But yeah. Very expensive and BYC makes hard to get.

honor rasheed wallace

by Cablinasian on Dec 20, 2008 1:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that's definitely an altogether implausible trade proposal.

As it is, Andre Iguodala won’t be dealt anywhere by the Philadelphia 76ers.

by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 4:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love him too

But he’s a BYC player. I can’t figure out a way to get him. RLEC would have to expire, then Portland would have to get him in the off season.

by parkinglotj on Dec 20, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just had an idea for a soliduhmwrong wording flashy backup PF: Varejao

He can become an unrestricted free agent next off-season (player option for 2010). So it would make little sense for a team to trade for him, but his value is relatively high in the league at the moment, so he might choose to opt out a la Boozer. He is averaging ca. 9 points and 7 rebounds. He can credibly play both big man positions if needed, but is a natural PF. He is a “veteran” with playoff experience all the way to the finals, but at 26 has still many many years ahead of him. He might be a bit more costly than a few other options for that position and could command I would guess $7+ mil. per year on a multi-year contract (up from $5.5). Would he be worth that, or do you say “for that kind of money we can re-sign Frye + some scrub”?

P.S.: I assume KP tries to bring over Freeland anyway, but rather as the third-string PF at first.

by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 11:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Anderson Varejao is best off sticking with the Cleveland Cavaliers through the 2009-2010 season, ...

since he’s in a good position as Zydrunas Ilgauskas’ backup at center on a team led by LeBron James.

by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not only that

but do the Blazers really want Joel Przybilla and Anderson Varejao on that 2nd unit? How in the world are we supposed to score point on the 2nd unit with two worthless post threats? I mean don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of a hustle guy thats going to rack up boards, and play stellar defense, but most of that is what Joel provides to the 2nd unit. If you get a guy with some offensive game like Millsap, that works, but a guy with zero offensive game is just too limiting to our 2nd unit’s scoring abilities.

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he has 9 points per game (of course in more minutes), but he also has the fifth highest TS% of all power forwards in the league

And just one spot behind LaMarcus in PER (17.95 vs. 17.41)
Finally an advanced stat that supports a point I want to make ;-)

Other backup guys we might want to take a look at according to these stats:
Marreese Speights, Philly (that would work better if Brand was healthy and good)
Shelden Williams, Sacramento (in the doghouse there, but efficient in the limited time he gets)
Solomon Jones, Atlanta
Carl Landy, Houston (Thorpe is extremely high on him. Probably so are the Rockets with their limited depth)
Amir Johnson, Detroit (Don’t think he is available, and can’t really see KP trade for a guy who tattoos a huge scorpion on the front of his neck)

by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Anderson gets points the same way Joel gets points

You can’t have them both in there and have a competent offense. Varejao’s TS% means as much offensively to his team as Joel’s does here (not enough shots to matter). That is to say, they’re the last resort. AV is a 37% jump shooter, meaning no one has to respect his shot, and no one obviously has to respect Joel’s shot either. Where on earth are guards supposed to create anything with the logjam inside? It looks a lot nicer on paper than it would on the court. I like Speights and Landry, but I doubt either one of those teams are looking to deal their youngins.

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well if we want a banger on the second unit, he would have to play closer to the basket than the current one

Otherwise we can keep Frye. On the first unit, I like a true center and a power forward who operates more from the elbow to give Roy some space. Do we want the same thing on the second unit, only in worse quality, or do we want a change of pace there → Either a true back to the basket player under the hoop or a SF masquerading as a quick PF a la Outlaw or Marvin Williams.

by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Varejao at even a higher cost than Frye and some scrubs

Seems LMA/Varejao & Oden/Przy would make a nice front court.. you could even imagine a time when Przy wouldn’t even need to be a part of big minutes in that..

It’d be great to be a backup PF would could compliment LMA if we wanna play smaller.. Frye and Frye compliments a true small ball style.. but then we start losing anything like an inside presence… Varejao is a great fast PF who can definitely switch front court assignments and play the inside to LMA’s outside presence…

Boycott Rose Garden Concessions!!!
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/8/657044/boycotting-rose-garden-con

by idoltime on Dec 20, 2008 6:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just what the doctor ordered

Varejao fits our needs so nicely; only Maxiell would be better behind LA. Live legs and big butts are just the right ticket. P.S. Lets get Calderon and Rubio and keep Sergio and Rudy and make a big paella and serve Campari and Orange before and after all home games. With Varejao you only need feijoada (black beans’n ham) to make him happy. Salt of the earth.

by oregonslee on Dec 20, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like him

but Cavs aren’t moving any rotation guys this year unless it’s a clear upgrade in the short-term, which in our case would mean having to give up at least Joel for Andy. When you’re playing like the Cavs are, you don’t worry about guys’ contracts and possibly losing them in FA.

by Royster on Dec 20, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Calderon is fools gold.

by howlingfantods on Dec 19, 2008 11:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think the best back up PF we could get would be through the draft

and that would be Tyler Hansbrough. Think about the energy he could bring off the bench, crashing the boards doing the dirty work. He’s projected to be a mid to late first round pick and unlike most rookies, he will be ready to produce immediately because of the 4 years he has spent under coach williams. He would be a perfect fit backing up aldridge and bring an intensity and effort that we need.

by peteypablo on Dec 20, 2008 12:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agree

He’s going to be a solid pro, and he’s fill the toughness/rebounding niche that is a hole for the Blazers at the backup 4.

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 20, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bryan Colangelo must soon find a potential replacement for Chris Bosh, which is why I suggest that he ...

should try to take advantage of the front office tug-o’-war that’s been occurring with the Golden State Warriors.

http://www.mercurynews.com/timkawakami/ci_11249783?nclick_check=1

With Don Nelson wasting Chris Cohen’s cash, manipulating Robert Rowell, and screwing over Chris Mullin, Colangelo may be in a prime position to pluck two of the Warriors up-‘n’-coming youngsters, Brandan Wright and Anthony Randolph, right out from under that discombobulated organization.

FROM GOLDEN STATE & TO TORONTO
PF Brandan Wright ($2,497,320)
SF Anthony Randolph ($1,709,280)

FROM TORONTO & TO GOLDEN STATE
PF Andrea Bargnani ($5,176,440)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=345532422987&teams=28289&te=&cash=

For the Warriors, Nelson allegedly has a hard-on for Bargnani — which doesn’t surprise me, since the senile old geezer probably sees flashes of Dirk Nowitzki in the Italian bust — while having a grudge against relative newbies Wright and Randolph, who don’t fit into his fast-paced, up-tempo system that relies heavily on high-volume shooting wings.

For the Raptors, it’s plainly obvious as to why Colangelo would sign off on this deal; he’d be a fool not to do it.

by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 5:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Golden State woulnd't trade one of those two for Bargnani

let alone both of them.

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You've got to factor in Don Nelson's lunacy and how the Golden State's front office is in disarray.

by AK1984 on Dec 20, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Blazers not a Player for Bosh

Whatever happens to Toronto, I think i is highly unlikely that the Blazers will trade for Bosh – or even try. We now have a 50-55 win team. We have a young center barely 20 games into his rookie season. We have three other rookie’s as well, and a starting SF who has yet to play his first game this year with a very different team than he played with last year. The Blazers are already successful. And, if they made no moves at all and simply gave this current team another 1 or 2 years of playing together to season them – they’d be a 55 – 60 win team. The only way the Blazers make a move for any player in the category of Bosh – is if that player can get them to 65 wins and maybe the championship. However, if you add Bosh and subtract LMA and who-ever else it might take, I don’t think Bosh gets you there. The Blazers, after all, aren’t dealing with a weakness on the front line – and that will become even less so as Oden continues to play.

On the other hand, there are certainly teams who have a weakness at PF and/or Center who need to beef up their front lines. And those are the one’s that might make such a move. The toughest thing for the Bosh’s of the world, however, is getting themelves positioned to move off a mediocre team and onto a team that can win championships – which, other than playing in big markets for endorsements, is about the only reason they’d move.

We’ll see, but I certainly don’t see the Blazers focussing on the PF position given their existing teams success. Maybe PG, possibly SF, and maybe a 2nd team PF – but not Center, PF, or SG.

by Eben Calder on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

put an asterisk next to this JD

kinda like will Joel earn the highest shooting percentage this year, there has to be a certain volume of attempts to get included.

Posting a JD that late in the day shouldnt earn the title.

Some comments may not be 100% accurate

by bow4meow on Dec 20, 2008 11:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Why not just rename it to Dec 20

by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Its your call...

Change the date?

Wait for someone to start a new one?

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Better than Hansborough... Millsap 2.0?

DeJuan Blair – Pittsburgh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Nmq2aJeZQ
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36578
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeJuan-Blair-5049/
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dejuan-blair

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 12:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He is 6'7 and 250+ pounds? Wow, that is really a small round mound of rebound for the PF spot

Didn’t see enough of him yet to know if that could translate to the NBA.

by Norsktroll on Dec 20, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

DeJuan Blair

is an absolute rebounding machine. The only player in the country that averages more RPG than Blair right now is Blake Griffin, and Griffin plays 7 minutes more per game (Blair 13 rebounds in 26 minutes). Standing 6’7", weighing 265, DeJuan Blair boasts a wingspan of 7’3". Blair uses his strength and reach inside the paint to swallow rebounds off the glass. While DeJuan is slightly undersized in terms of height for a PF, he’s much stronger than most PF’s in the NBA already and his wingspan is comparable to most NBA C’s. Blair has an above average back to the basket game and he is a true banger down in the post with his deceptive explosiveness. DeJuan’s mid-range game has come a long way in the past year and it is appearing to improve more and more as time goes by. With his long reach and his energy level on the floor, Blair’s has the potential to be a very good defender and shot blocker. He’s a very strong player, who despite his size, runs the floor fairly well.

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They were saying

the same stuff about Ike D. at one time I imagine. You may be right about him though; it’s all such a crap shoot if you look back at the washout’s. There are few sure things except for the guys who’ve already proved themselves over 3 or 4 years and then the whole league knows their worth. Would you say KP and his staff are pretty fair evaluators? I’ll bet they’ve got their eyes on a couple of guys that can help us.

by oregonslee on Dec 20, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

KP is among the best talent evaluators in the game

He’s pretty far ahead of the game in this regard. He uses key statistical measures for a number of his picks, but doesn’t discount first hand accounts of players that don’t have a strong statistical identity as well (Batum). I think for Blair, the numbers, and the style of his game will jump out at KP.

Here is a look at the top PER’s in college basketball right now.
http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?year=2008/09&league=NCAA&per=pergame&qual=prospects&q=usage&sort2=DESC&pos=&stage=&min=20&sort=6

DeJuan Blair, however overlooked so far, will more than likely garner the attention of a lot of scouts and GM’s in the next couple of months. Hopefully he takes a quick exit in the tourney, because a lot of times good/great players have their values go way up into the air, or way down into the ground based on just one or two games. Right now, Blair would look to be a mid to late first round pick, but by the time of the draft he could be a lottery type of guy. I personally love his game, and think he’d be a mighty fine player on our second unit, fulfilling a lot of roles all at once.

by as11osu on Dec 20, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs