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Today's Poll -- Kevin McHale Spits Ether At Us Edition

Well, this morning's apparently false (update: now there's more conflicting accounts on this?) rumor about Jerryd Bayless demanding a trade made me sit up in my seat a little bit and realize that the internet, even on the verge of 2009, does still has a credibility problem.  

During warmups on Tuesday, JB was smiling and talking about the team's holiday party; postgame he was smiling and giving people the Ari from Entourage shoulder rub.  This guy was supposedly demanding a trade?  Really? Yet, still, I initially gave the report the benefit of the doubt.  I trust people not to completely make crap up.  

Sadly, that post ended up drawing more commentary than Dave's treatise on statistics.  Which is a damn shame.

This all reminded me of NBA Legend Kevin McHale's quote from a few days back that essentially blamed the world's ills on bloggers.

"I think you're going to see more and more shorter term stuff in our league," he said. "Just because the access now, there's so much media availability and everything else."

"There's just so many bloggers; everybody's got an opinion. There's all kinds of stuff going on. Sometimes that starts forming the opinion of people in front offices, too, and owner. It's been kind of a crazy year so far."

Credibility.  It's a big deal, especially on the internet. Vote in the poll and then let's chat in the comments about how the Internet is doing and whether it's actually affected NBA management decisions.  

-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)

Poll
Do you blame Dave and me when NBA coaches or general managers get fired?
Yes, you are the entire problem.
151 votes
Yes, but you're only part of the problem.
78 votes
No, psst, here's a secret for you: no one really listens to bloggers.
110 votes
No, period.
133 votes
I am blown away that Kevin McHale knows what the internet is and my shock doesn't allow me to decide on one of the other choices.
211 votes

683 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 36 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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You and Dave are also entirely responsible

for the failed professional b-ball career of one Harold Miner.

when i get sad, i stop being sad & become awesome again. true story.

by Net Ranger on Dec 18, 2008 3:29 PM PST reply actions  

he had some sweet dunks back in the day

I think I can only add "The NBA, where caring for everybody but the fans happens". --amlmart1

by prezofdeath on Dec 18, 2008 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I think

that media, and bloggers are a big fun and painful entertainment machine that sometimes….just every now and then, takes black eyes over throwing tooooooo much gasoline onto a match.

Thankful we are to the seekers of truth and all that is right, but….

alot of the times….the stupid rumors are the fun part of being a fan. not that I or some of us don’t despise the per-pet-u-ators of the bad info later but it is fun when it’s “real”,…sometimes.

bayless getting irritated about playing time…eh…who don’t expect that though right?
demanding a trade? that’s getting a bit out of line…. so we’re grateful that it was a bad terrible lie…

 but some people sure did have fun with it. :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Dec 18, 2008 3:35 PM PST reply actions  

I think

that McHale actually makes a valid point. Media availability is so widespread and, many times, so completely anonymous, that anybody could be posting anything about anyone and make it seem credible. Like fake trade “rumors” for instance. Heck, this even happens with people who are credited with being part of the media. How often have we all laughed at Sam Smith “trade rumors”?

So when McHale points out that everybody with an opinion, whether credible or not, now has an open forum for discussing it, then it does open up the huge potential for front offices, players, agents, etc to make judgements based on less than truthful material.

Now, I will also say that any front office of a major business such as a sports team that lets anything written on the internet affect their decision-making process, well, maybe that business needs some management changes. Kind of like the Timberwolves. hmm….

Dave and Ben and other bloggers like them probably aren’t the reason front offices change or coaches get fired (at least they shouldn’t be), but that doesn’t make McHale’s point less valid.

by DrivetheLane on Dec 18, 2008 3:35 PM PST reply actions  

Kevin McHale

sucks as a GM. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. Our media and the NBA always are trying to be so PC about everything. O no you cant say this, you cant say that. Then, bloggers come along who arent paid and dont really have a boss, so to speak. Bloggers are fans pure and simple. The organization counts on their fans, without them (us) you can forget about a viable business that makes you money. It pays to listen to the people buying the tickets, the jerseys, ect. McHale is starting to feel the pressure and its about time…

by lethaldose on Dec 18, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Sadly, that post ended up drawing more commentary than Dave’s treatise on statistics. Which is a damn shame.

True, yet most of the comments were questioning the validity of the statements in the first place. Also, as well-written as Dave’s piece was, there was 1) not much to say afterward because it was well done, and 2) not much discussion because many posters probably already knew the info (although it would be very helpful for those who didn’t).

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy,
Roy, Roy, Roy!

by joelor on Dec 18, 2008 3:36 PM PST reply actions  

yeh something amazing can happen and people just look and go wow...great

but when there’s controversey….whoooo wee! everyone has an opinion and so there’s going to be a lot more discussion.

With that said, Dave’s statistics primer was epic.

Also, can you imagine Phil Jackson being fired and claiming it was the result of a blogger? If you are bad enough of a coach or have poor enough management that any blog anywhere anytime is the reason for you being fired….wow.

But yeh, once again, thanks Dave and Ben for generally being above the blogosphere. You guys blur the boarder between blogger and beatwriter.

I think I can only add "The NBA, where caring for everybody but the fans happens". --amlmart1

by prezofdeath on Dec 18, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

My wager

TiH, jscot, Mortimer and I will all blame it on you and Dave. We’re wily net veterans and we see through the gauzy haze you have wrapped Blazers Edge in to the throbbing gristle that is the heart of your evil plan to dominate the interweb tubes with your knee-jerk commentary and Jarryd Bayless-centric mind control.

Thankfully, I wear a Reynold’s Wrap™ helmet whenever I read your site.

by DonkeyShins on Dec 18, 2008 3:45 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, that's me

Wily net veteran. I’ve been visiting this site for a couple years, and joined after we drafted Greg. It (and now a few other SBN sites) is the only site of which I am a member.

I didn’t even know what “buzz” meant.

But I know about LIFE (maybe because I’m not really ‘net guy). This is all BEN’S fault, and he’s just trying to share the blame around and pin some of it on Dave.

In reality, there’s some validity to McHale’s comments. In an entertainment industry, people lose their jobs when the natives get restless and cease being entertained. Bloggers can definitely contribute to that. If a blogger with a large following (like Dave) begins to rant against a coach or player, it can make owners and management sit up and take notice. You can’t lose your fan base.

Do you like asparagus?

by jscot on Dec 18, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Mostly you.

Sometimes Dave, but by and large just you.

by grimc on Dec 18, 2008 3:49 PM PST reply actions  

basketbawful had something funny on this today:

From the worst of the night:

The Minnesota Timberwolves: Not that anybody expected them to beat the Cavs, but they still lost by 23 points at home. It was their 11th straight defeat and sixth in a row since Kevin McHale took over the coaching reigns. But since McHale thinks that bloggers are costing coaches their jobs, I’m not going to say anything.

Look, I take blogging like everyone should take everything: with a grain of salt. The Wolves and McHale can’t blame anyone but themselves for losing 11 in a row though.

by 50backflips on Dec 18, 2008 3:50 PM PST reply actions  

I think all polls should include an option that states

I just pick whichever answer amuses me the most.

Although, that option would not allow me to pick the funniest answer of the bunch which leaves me conflicted.

Either way I’m pretty sure McHale thinks the internet is just a series of tubes.

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on Dec 18, 2008 3:51 PM PST reply actions  

No

I don’t think he was blaming bloggers per sey but no, I disagree bloggers or internet commenters or etc get coaches or gm’s fired. It holds them more accountable but it’s not like those guys were doing a good job anyway.

I actually think too many coaches are fired and not enough GM’s like Kevin McHale or Michael Jordan.

by neutroticblazerfan on Dec 18, 2008 3:54 PM PST reply actions  

Caveat lector

Some bloggers themselves to enrich
Post the basest of all that is kitsch
Heed this warning I pray
Don’t believe what they say
Any more than you trust Rod Blagojevich

by CatMan2 on Dec 18, 2008 4:04 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Kevin Mchale has been a bad GM

passing up Roy, Mayo, and i am sure many more

"All our holes," says shooting guard Brandon Roy, a surprise All-Star last year in his second season, "are holes that Greg is going to plug."

by bowdown on Dec 18, 2008 4:13 PM PST reply actions  

I still think "blogging" sounds like slang for vomit.

‘Cause that’s the sound it makes: “b-b-b-b-b-B-B-BLLLLLOGGGG-G-G-G-G-G-G!!!
BLOG! BLOG! BLOG-OG!”
[ mouthwipe ]

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." - Ernest Hemingway

by QualityPie on Dec 18, 2008 4:31 PM PST reply actions  

Blogging is what got me back into the NBA

Sorry, just watching the games isn’t enough. At least half the fun is talking about the games, coming up with ridiculous trade ideas, and making fun of incompetent GM’s.

We need more blogging in sports. Less boring traditional media. ESPN has become nigh unwatchable because all they do is bring on beat reporters with zany personalties who appeal to boring people in boring places.

by AndrewD on Dec 18, 2008 4:34 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed

I just started watching the Blazers again this season for the first time since 2001, and it’s mostly because of this blog.

by Liface on Dec 18, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Does he really believe that?
Sometimes that starts forming the opinion of people in front offices, too, and owner.

Terrible English.

Is he intimating that HE (and/or the owner) is letting the blogosphere influence his/their opinions? Wow, that’s giving a lot of power to the rabble. We all know there are good blogs and bad blogs and on good blogs there are good comments and bad comments. Now I certainly see blogs influencing fans, but front offices? Kinda scary.

And I wish that the term “blogger” was used only for the people “owning” a blog, not all the people commenting on it.

I do worry that newbies – from fans to bloggers to team executives – who visit here will take some comments at face value not knowing that there are standard replies for many events. “Fire Nate”, “Trade Travis”, etc. They may look at a highly sarcastic “Trade B-Roy!” and think that the poster actually means it. And they’ll return to their own blog or comment on another that there are fans out there who want to Trade B-Roy. Not that I think we should stop that silly stuff – that’s family tradition, but everyone who ever reads ANY blog should have a big salt shaker nearby.

by jorga on Dec 18, 2008 4:54 PM PST reply actions  

Some people use blogs and forums as a means of checking the pulse of the fandom

If your franchise is suffering and you’re struggling to figure out why attendance is down, it makes sense that the outspoken majority opinion might make its way to the mind of the owner and front office.

by zaruga on Dec 18, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Just use a bunch of profanity

Although you might get banned too, so strike that.

"Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live." - Anthony Johnson

by jamon51 on Dec 18, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Shorter Kevin McHale

“Things work much better for a fan-oriented business when they don’t have to listen to fans.”

by grimc on Dec 18, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

"Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live." - Anthony Johnson

by jamon51 on Dec 18, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty hard to say

how much the players and the front office listen too, or pay much attention to bloggers. I would guess it really varies from player to player and person to person. Actually, now that I think about it, it may be more likely that players react to internet stuff then would the coaches. Most players seem to have such big egos, they would probably pay more attention to media hype (thankfully, not my Blazers). Coaching staff, not so much.

A lot of player have their own blogs now, Oden and Frye for example. If they are blogging themselves, they must be at least reading responses? Oden’s gloomy looks on the bench are probably a result of all you nay-sayers out there!

by RudyisSick! on Dec 18, 2008 5:18 PM PST reply actions  

What a rediculous statement by McHale

Bowing/bending/reacting to the swirl of opinion around you is rediculous if you

    + have more/as many facts compared to the ones opining
    + have more/as much experience compared to the ones opining
    + have more/as much expertise compared to the ones opining

IF you don’t have those — it is even more rediculous for you to be in an NBA front office.

by LetsBlaze on Dec 18, 2008 5:48 PM PST reply actions  

I never even saw Dave's stat primer

This post pushed it too far down the page.

I blame Ben.

by zaruga on Dec 18, 2008 5:51 PM PST reply actions  

I don't get why....

…so many folks talk about bloggers as if they are a monolithic entity.

Are there bloggers with credibility problems? Heck yes. And there are newspapers with a credibility problem…..to wit, the National Enquirer. But rarely do people go around trashing all newspapers because of the trash that the Enquirer publishes. I don’t know anyone that would equate the National Enquirer to the Washington Post, LA Times or New Yor Times. Yet folks like Kevin McHale, and even Kerry Eggers, love to talk about bloggers as if they are all the same. Dave and Ben, as well as Henry the Godfather, are the Washington Post and New York Times of the NBA blogoshere.

Sadly, but not surprisingly, there are blogs that fit the National Equirer role in he blogoshere. The fact that people like Kevin McHale can’t tell the difference is pretty baffling…..

by antediluvian on Dec 18, 2008 5:56 PM PST reply actions  

It's not really blogging per se.

It’s the speed of which information (true or false) spreads that has created nightmares for entertainment industries that once thrived on fan control via PR spin (pro wrestling for example once had an iron curtain up on the backstage goings on. While few people ever believed the fights were “real” it was that uncertainty and curiosity (do these guys really dislike each other? How much contact is there really) that helped keep the casual fans tuning in). It also means that, for example, people who are potential trade targets hear their name the next morning, which in turn can erode trust, loyalty and chemistry.

The fact is, people wanted this, the genie is out of the bottle now, so the entertainment industry is going to have to adapt (much like the music industry finally caving and giving consumers a way to buy digital tracks instead of fighting digital piracy in courts) in order to survive. It’s not the burden of bloggers (although I’d say, at very least if you are a fan of a team and want it to succeed, as with all other forms of politics, consider the cause and effect of your actions) but rather the burden of the corporation to figure out a strategy that best works with the reality of the market.

by zaruga on Dec 18, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

The bloggers

are a fan connection which allows participation …the sports media have some participation but still maintain it is their show…
     IMO…. the problem for the experts of the game(the extensive basketball background) is, that less qualified people have ventured into this territory and they will often resent it…
    it is understandable (to me) that they would have ill-feelings towards the blogging group, because second guessing what they do, in the friendly confines of a fan base, can have the effect of bashing their expertise without the accountability that they have……The basketball blogging group are very privileged and without the game itself, they do not have a job…….Very understandable the resentment here…..

It's all about defense......

by 67 on Dec 19, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

NEWS FLASH: People say stupid things.

In other news tonight, scientists report that “TEH INTRAWEBS” is actually a massive, globe-spanning technology that allows individuals the same capacity to reach massive audiences in ways that were only possible in the past by the cloistered gatekeepers behind newspapers, radio, and television.

So, guess what happens when you mix these two things together? Well, you get exactly what you see every day. Really, the only thing that shocks me is how others are shocked that this dynamic even exists. We all knew that the Jim working down the hall was a frustrated stand-up comedian, and his wife Sally really does make the best Snickerdoodles you’ve ever tasted. Their ability to share these facets of themselves with several million others doesn’t change who they are, and if one of them chooses to spread silly rumors or trash talk a coach, what difference should that make to the organization.

The bottom line is that all the Internet is doing is ALLOWING that organization to hear the random conversations that baskbetball fans have been having for decades. How they choose to respond to this newfound awareness is completely up to them. The Trail Blazers chose to respond in a positive way, and now we have a high character organization from top to bottom. Kevin McHale chooses to respond in a negative way, by whining about the people who PAY. HIS. SALARY. with their entertainment dollars.

Remember. People say stupid things. That includes me, you, some wacky pastor in Idaho, and the Head Coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

by conspirator5 on Dec 18, 2008 6:16 PM PST reply actions  

Last year Minny had a local broadcast with less than 2000 viewers

So if all 100 regulars on Canis Hoopus threaten to abandon the team if coach and GM aren’t fired, it just might work ;-)
On the other hand, I think they demand McHale be fired for years…

by Norsktroll on Dec 19, 2008 11:32 PM PST reply actions  

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