Travis: The Expendable Blazer
by Thack on Dec 18, 2008 3:11 PM PST
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Print[From Thack's Blazer Blog: thacksblazerblog.wordpress.com]
Trades – I can speculate all I want, but I don’t think I know nearly enough about what other GMs are thinking to come up with worthwhile trade proposals. I don’t know what they all value in their players, I don’t know what they all value in our players, I don’t know what they want for their future, and I’m not willing to suggest 100 trades in hopes that one actually happens. Additionally, I wouldn’t blame the Blazers for not making ANY moves this season. When you know as much about basketball as K.P. and Nate do, you need time to get a sense for how players can perform. It’s not as simple as it sounds, and it’s essential knowledge to have when you’re building a team from the ground up. When those players are so young and new to the league like the Blazers are, I think it’s reasonable for the organization to take the process slow as to keep from unnecessarily changing too much too quickly. There is still a lot we are learning about the future of this team at each position.
Point Guard has been a very hot topic, and deservingly so. Coming in to this year, we knew that our play from the point needed to be improved. However, a career year from Steve Blake, radical offseason improvement from Sergio, and the addition of a very promising Bayless has given me some hope. I do not doubt that we can improve at PG, but I’d like to learn more about the team before we make any decisions. I’d like to make the point that Greg Oden’s development plays an integral role in how these guys will be running the team, so we need to wait for him a little bit, too.
It seems that the only other position that deserves serious debate is the 3 spot. Simply put, we have too much talent. However, in this case, I think that one player in particular stands out as expendable: Travis Outlaw. Now, I’m not saying Travis is the only player we can afford to lose; obviously guys like Frye, Diogu, and Randolph should enter that discussion. However, they don’t play much, and I don’t know what we could get in return, so I’m not going to bother talking about them.
Outlaw, on the other hand, is in his sixth year in the NBA, and sometimes I find myself yelling at him like he was a rookie.
“Box out, Travis!”
“No, Travis, there’s no lane!”
“Uh oh, there’s less than 10 seconds on the shot clock and Travis has the ball… he’s going to dribble once and pull up again.”
I like Travis a lot, actually. I think he’s hilarious, and it sounds like he’s a popular guy in the clubhouse, too. But there is no Blazer player that frustrates me more to watch than Travis Outlaw. From shot selection to the way he positions himself on the court, I am perpetually unhappy with what I see Travis doing. After five full years in the NBA, he has improved his three-point shot (thank you James Jones), but I barely see any improvement otherwise (he still can't pass, and I've seen very little increase in his general basketball IQ).
To see the “Travis Effect”, I think you have to go further than just his poor field goal percentage. Begin by looking at the +/–; his is among the worst on the team! He has a +/– of (+2), which means the Blazers have scored two more points than their opponent while Travis is on the floor. The only other big-minute Blazer near him is Greg (+3), and I guarantee that number will increase. The next lowest? Sergio, at (+34). Aldridge and Roy lead the team with (+155) and (+88), respectively.
[Some other bench guys have a lower +/–, but they don’t get more than 13 minutes/game.]
The bottom line is that Travis possesses very few of the qualities that I will want in a big-minute player on a championship caliber team (that’s the ultimate goal, isn’t it?). We’re overloaded at the 3 position anyway, and I’m not okay with him getting minutes at the expense of Rudy, Martell, and even Batum. I’d rather have those three guys get the time to mature. Besides, I think they can replace his offensive contributions entirely, improve our defense, and provide us with a higher basketball IQ on the court. Additionally, Travis has built a name for himself over the last few seasons, so I would imagine he is somewhat marketable. Somebody somewhere must value his offensive abilities…
I’m not saying we need to trade Travis, but I am saying that if we are looking to make trades, I consider him the most expendable Blazer. I think arguments could be made to keep all of the other big contributors intact to grow together, and I don’t see Travis being able to grow with them as well as the others could.
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#25
"Phooey Michael, P-H-O-O-E-Y, phooey", said Tony Luftman.
by Outlaw is Rejector on Dec 18, 2008 3:19 PM PST reply actions 14 recs
I've been wondering what happened to all you #25'ers
it seems like once outlaw’s game started going into the tank this season there have been less and less 25’s floating around here. I remember not too long ago if anyone suggested outlaw should be dealt the militant arm of blazersedge would rear up and start complaining. Now this post makes me think it was written by captain obvious. really? travis is expendable? I’m pretty sure this has got to be the 275th person to reach this conclusion. this week.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
#25
Here I am, the originator of the #25 reply. I just haven’t been able to hang out at the Bedge much lately and there are so many negative comments about Travis that I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them all. I have to depend on Outlaw is Rejector and Bow4Meow to keep up the crusade.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Dec 18, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are the knight in shining armour.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
We will crusade much
and crusade some more!
"Phooey Michael, P-H-O-O-E-Y, phooey", said Tony Luftman.
by Outlaw is Rejector on Dec 18, 2008 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
For glory!
For king…and for kingdom! Huzzahhh!
I think I can only add "The NBA, where caring for everybody but the fans happens". --amlmart1
by prezofdeath on Dec 18, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
Annthefan
I think your relative absence is the single biggest reason that Travis is unpopular right now, and also that you were the biggest reason that he was so popular last year. There may be some difference in his play, but the biggest difference is in #25ing. If you were posting more, there would be way fewer trade Travis posts.
Most of them realized it was sort of annoying, and added nothing to the conversation.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Dec 18, 2008 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What's the point in adding sprinkles to a cookie made of poop?
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
Who's the turd? Oh, I guess you must be speaking of yourself.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Oh. Your comment was so ineffectual and meaningless
that my mind wondered away from the point. That’s right, the discussion was about whether you should add sprinkles to poop cookies.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Ugh...
That is one of the more juvenile flame digs I have seen on B-edge. You should really try harder; the level of discourse here demands more.
I heart taxes.
I like Travis
I find all the hating on Travis a turd cookie.
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
Score one for Tom.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Yep. You should work on your discourse.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
So embarrassing for you when you're such an epistemologist.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I find
this thread quite immature and adds nothing to the debate…Give the guy some credit for a good topic of conversation and let it go without the off the wall smack………….If your feelings get hurt…go get some therapy…..
It's all about defense......
by 67 on Dec 20, 2008 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
I give Thack credit for A well thought out
and well written post. Everett, on the other hand, spreads turd cookies, as Tom so succinctly calls it.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Travis Outlaw homers...
Where blind devotion happens.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Why don't you go over to Sactown?
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I live there actually
not the blog, but the actual city.
The blog doesn’t like my Ricky Bobby jokes (not fans of Will Ferrell I guess). Ziller and his lackey (Section 316) have nothing on Dave and Ben. If they put out good stuff on occasion, I can still read it. But I’d rather spend my time here. BE is much better.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Oh. So you're not a fan of the Blazers.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I'm not sure where that assumption comes from.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 19, 2008 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Just one of those nights where if you scratch the surface you'll find
the inner b====.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
i love me some annthefan
"Phooey Michael, P-H-O-O-E-Y, phooey", said Tony Luftman.
by Outlaw is Rejector on Dec 20, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
ann, ur missed
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
Always fun when someone shows off how obnoxious they can be.
Obviously some folks like it here (/\), cause you’re part of the old clique… from the good ol’ days before B-Edge was filled with negativity and low level discourse. It’s really a shame that you have been dissuaded from spreading your positivity, joy, and “#25”s all over the place.
I heart taxes.
Hey Everett. I'd like to apologize to you. You're
right, that was exactly what I was doing, showing how obnoxious I can be. That is exactly what I was doing. I’m sorry I used you as my guinea pig. I could have gone off on anyone but you won with your turd remark, but not really in response to it, if you know what I mean. If you’ll look elsewhere in this post, I was lamenting the fact that there seems to be a lot of negativism around the site lately. I guess you could say I was trying to demonstrate what it is I dislike as an experiment. I’m sorry I targeted you. I should have thrown in a few derogatory remarks about Brandon and Joel just to round things out.
All that being said, #25.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
#25
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
everett, almost all the long time posters hear love ann
she has a level head and kan be a lot of fun, and virtually all of them respect her loyalty and fandom. now, those few among her many attributes are not ment in opposition of whut i see in you, but rather a preface of my partikular fealings for ann that ive seen others share. i myself almost never open a trade proposal or get involved in trade discution, my reasons for witch are difficult to explain, but in short form, to me, its kinda like mental masterbation. the thing is, personaly, i think that just as i seam to have the right to not care about trade spekulation, those that have a proclivity for mix and match games, should feal free to voice themselves. theres a specifik format given this intrest. now prior to this formats formation, ann simply “voiced” hor opionin and supported her favorite player with a #25 stamp in responce to any convo she came across that had travis packing. at that time, there was really no way to avoid the numerous threads popping up, and much of this type of win/loss indigestion was unavoidable, as it would appear in the majore majority of all the threads, even if only in the form of a singular apperence. fair enough on her part, hardly flaming, simply making her stance known and showing her support for her favorite player. as those that extended their “right” to post their discomfort, so she extended hers, in dissent of their nba2k fantasy roster dreams, and this seamed to engender bitterness in the free wheeling kamp, while also becoming a minor battlecry for those who were beginning to expirence a poler opposite bitterness of their own, dirrected at the “young pritchards of amerika” who in the eyes of the “armchair chemists”, just wanted to play mr potato head with our team. another point of contention from many, was the notion that after suffering long, the drought of randolf and trador bob, that we should be greatful with the charictor of our team, and patient with their devolepment, and not let our embaressment of ritches and our new found position of “up and coming” turn into a steady stream of “mo money, mo problems”. many of those who shaired that view were still attending games at the gardon, while the majority of us, myself included had abandoned the team alltogether. i only showed up for the team after drafting roy, aldridge and sergio, my first game in the gardon was outlaw tying the freethrow record in garbage time,(i dont even remember who we played) so i think of myself as a johny come lately. while theres marret for both side to the discution of “there for the drought” versez “bandwagon fans” thats another discution. ANN JUST POSTED. haha, ive certainly missed her. well back to it. all that said, theres been hash words on both sides, but i really see no reason to continue. your entrence into the frey was
Most of them realized it was sort of annoying, and added nothing to the conversation.even in its best light, hardly more then inflamatory and rude. youve essentually called her fandom, which was never ment to be inflamatory, annoying while adding nothing to the conversation. kinda rude and thoughtless. what i find funny, is that ive allways thought it added soo much to the conversation. it was simple confermation that i wasnt alone in my desire to watch this team grow up together and enjoy the fruits of their collective labor. is that really worth insulting people over?
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
and as an aside
since we all no that the organization, from friends and family, to employees and even ocationaly pritchard himself read this blog, those fans of players that the sometimes minor, but almost allways vocal majority have on the cusp of home shopping, have allmost a responsibility to the team to find a way to show their favorites support. remember, what we pay to see is a product, first and formost in the eyes of their handlers. this product has been shaped fun money/fan suport in the past, and will likely continue to be in the future if only a little. this management team seams to pay a little bit more attention then average to the fanbase. we should remember that, be greatful, and take advantage of it to let them no whut we want.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
actually I am a Blazers fan
surprisingly to you, perhaps.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
Good Post
“I’m not saying we need to trade Travis, but I am saying that if we are looking to make trades, I consider him the most expendable Blazer. I think arguments could be made to keep all of the other big contributors intact to grow together, and I don’t see Travis being able to grow with them as well as the others could.”
100% on point, imo. Rec’d
BTW, how do you do the grey quote thing?
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
Highlight the paragraph you want
and click the quote marks
That 70's show:
Kelso: Red! I guess ur wondering why I'm going through your stuff. See, I needed to borrow your saw...because I need to chop down a tree...because there's something stuck in it...an animal...a rabbit...and I would like to return that rabbit to the wild so it can lay its eggs!
Red: Kelso, rabbits don't..............how the hell did a rabbit get up a tree?
Kelso: uhhhhhh Eric threw it up there.
Red: Eric threw a rabbit up a tree?
Kelso: Yeah, he's a sadistic bastard.
by 92wastheyear on Dec 18, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Dec 18, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
Neat....
That showed up in the preview pane and disappeared in the post….nice. Let me try again
All the Whos down in Whoville liked Christmas a lot…but The Grinch who live just north of Whoville did not
That 70's show:
Kelso: Red! I guess ur wondering why I'm going through your stuff. See, I needed to borrow your saw...because I need to chop down a tree...because there's something stuck in it...an animal...a rabbit...and I would like to return that rabbit to the wild so it can lay its eggs!
Red: Kelso, rabbits don't..............how the hell did a rabbit get up a tree?
Kelso: uhhhhhh Eric threw it up there.
Red: Eric threw a rabbit up a tree?
Kelso: Yeah, he's a sadistic bastard.
by 92wastheyear on Dec 18, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Weird!
When I first reviewed that …the block quotes were missing. Now they are back. Makes my whoville quote seem redundant and strange
That 70's show:
Kelso: Red! I guess ur wondering why I'm going through your stuff. See, I needed to borrow your saw...because I need to chop down a tree...because there's something stuck in it...an animal...a rabbit...and I would like to return that rabbit to the wild so it can lay its eggs!
Red: Kelso, rabbits don't..............how the hell did a rabbit get up a tree?
Kelso: uhhhhhh Eric threw it up there.
Red: Eric threw a rabbit up a tree?
Kelso: Yeah, he's a sadistic bastard.
by 92wastheyear on Dec 18, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, and
Getting him out of the rotation at the 3 means, maybe more roy and rudy minutes at the 3 and less roy minutes at the point, meaning, maybe, a few crumbs for Bayless.
I cringe each time Travis touches the ball.
Sometimes I then have to say – “Great shot”, but mostly I end up swearing. I don’t see Travis fitting well at small forward on this team anymore. He is still our best backup power forward, but I’m sure with Outlaw, the RLEC, and perhaps a backup point guard or Frye, we could get better.
"Maurice Lucas walked past, and said that nobody trash-talked like Garnett during his playing career, because, "Back then, it was only a $50 fine for punching a guy in the mouth.""
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 18, 2008 4:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rec
I cant speak so well on Travis (see post game write up by Dave after the Sac game, my comments about Travis garbage play made plenty of people angry ) mostly b/c it’s after Travis’ play has sent me into a tirade, but you have succeeded in voicing my opinion on Travis-
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Dec 18, 2008 4:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Careful
Once you’ve rec’d someone you’ve rec’d everyone they’ve ever rec’d…
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Dec 19, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking, even if he is totally expendable . . .
. . . he’ll be even moreso once MarWeb is back and healthy, which should be well before the trade deadline.
So I’d advocate that even if he should be moved, to wait until then.
At worst, he’s a temp patch for the next month or tow, while Martell continues to rehab.
Even if Trout’s no more than that, he IS that, and darned useful in that function, if only temporarily.
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." - Ernest Hemingway
I see your point
but with Rudy and Batum ready to play right now, I don’t see think it’s necessary that we postpone it until Martell gets back. If we see a good opportunity to move Travis, I say do it. If it happens before Martell is ready to come back, then we have plenty of people to fill in (including Jerryd, in a round-about way).
I love Travis
And it would be totally wierd if he wasn’t a Blazer.
I just wish to Zeus he didn’t STILL play like a rookie. For a 6th year player, it makes ya think he’ll never learn. Not his fault, not the coaches fault, just the way it is.
He can still be really useful for a team that struggles to have scoring in its 2nd unit, like we were last season. This season, it isn’t the same and his scoring hasn’t been that necessary. Outside of volume scoring, he really doesn’t do anything besides be cute and humble.
His corner 3 point shooting has been AMAZING though, and I could see him having great value for the right team. While a 6th year player, he is still very young as wel. It’s just so frustrating, because he really truly just makes completely boneheaded rookie plays night in and night out. He really only started playing 3 years ago, but even for a 3rd year player it is head scratchingly bewildering.
Just like last year, the game is best made simple for him. Go out there, and shoot. Worry about the shot selection later. When he worries, he doesn’t shoot when open and in rhythym, and drives when he should shoot.
He’s the opposite of Brandon Roy.
I love Travis the fellar, don’t WANT to trade him, but yeah… if someone had trade value and was expendable, it is Mr. Travis. And then Channing Frye. Two great guys I’d love to be Blazers for forever and a day, but games that aren’t coming through— and the two players most likely to make bonehead rookie mistakes on the floor.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Dec 18, 2008 4:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's interesting
It’s interesting how much the value of a player depends on context. I think Travis could make a lot of teams in the league better, but I do not think the Blazers would miss him much in terms of on court production. He is a nice offensive threat if a team’s second unit is offensively challenged. About half of the second units in the league are offensively challenged. The Blazers are not—with or without Outlaw. Sure., the Blazers get a little thin at the three spot without Outlaw, but they could probably manage even without Webster by playing Batum more minutes, playing Rudy more minutes, giving Frye his PF minutes, and playing Bayless some at the two spot.
oh Mortimer I am so disappointed that you misspelled "Weird"
get a grip buddy
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
I've made that comment a lot too
He can still be really useful for a team that struggles to have scoring in its 2nd unit, like we were last season. This season, it isn’t the same and his scoring hasn’t been that necessary.
Is that really true, though? If the second unit were Sergio, Rudy, Martell/Batum, Ike/Frye, and Billa, where does the scoring come from?
I love Rudy. He plays with the kinda heart I’d like to think I’d play with if I were an NBA rook. But (right now at least) he can’t create his own shot. At least not ones that go in.
Ben went so far the other day as to call Rudy EuroTravis, and as much as it pains me, I can see where the comparison holds. Rudy is ten times (a hundred? a million? infinity?) as Trout, but as far as taking off balance twos when he drives, he has similar tendencies. In fact, I bet Trout hits a higher clip.
Trout takes more… but isn’t that kinda the point? When/if Travis were gone, where would the shot creation come form?
Second unit seemed to really struggle against the Clips with Travis on the bench. I think that trend would continue. Rudy’s a nice player off the bench, but I’m not sure he makes Travis expendable.
(Every game, though, I change my mind on Outlaw approx. 37 times. He’s great! Wait, he’s terrible. Way to attack the rim! Another fading 22 footer? He could touch the ceiling if he wanted! I sish he would go sit up there and stop disrupting the offense. And on and on and on.
So I’ll probably reply to my own post later and completely slam all my points.)
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 18, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
I meant to say, Rudy is ten times the PASSER that Trout is
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 18, 2008 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
Travis has had 3 years of burn, Frye, I still hold out some hope for.
I’m not a big trade guy. For the most part, I like to see the season through and make adjustments in the off season, but trading Travis wouldn’t break my heart. It’s really tough when you see flashes of what he could be as a rebounder and shot blocker, even if he never develops a good move to the basket.
Where have all the Outlaw defenders gone?
This post last year would have created a firestorm. It’s incredible the shift in thinking among Blazer fans this year. I think a lot of it has to do with Batum. Even though he’s been struggling lately…anyone following this team see’s that he is going to be a far better fit moving forward than Travis even could have been.
by Rip City Revival on Dec 18, 2008 5:00 PM PST reply actions
It's also that Travis isn't hitting the same shots he did last year
It’s easier to forgive a player who’s making crazy, questionable plays if the ball goes in when it leaves his hands. It’s a feeling of “well it works for him, so cool”.
Now he’s doing similar stuff and his shot isn’t falling (and in some cases, the defenses know to clog the lane and he just runs into them now).
If this is a short slump, and his shooting touch returns, and he makes a few game winners, this thread will have a 100 posts of arguing fans again.
Travis defender here
I get pretty honked off about this. For every questionable shot or mistep on the court someones running to their puter to bad-mouth Travis and throw him out there as trade bait. Give the guy a break. Its his super-freakish athletic ability that is both a blessing and a curse, I admit that Travis takes alot of awkward J’s. Its also not unusual when the PGs cant set up a play, who do they give the rock to when the shot-clocks running down— invariably almost always its to Travis, because he can create a shot anywhere and at anytime. If he was so terrible Coach wouldnt play him and the guys wouldnt always be looking for him to bail em out.
Another thing, many basketball intangibles are not reflected in the stats, and Travis brings these qualities every night— namely, he’s a good guy, well liked, and creates good chemistry. Laugh all you want at that but the Rasheed Wallace led Blazers were a disgrace in comradery and if throwing towels into Sabonis face is the kind of thing you appreciate come up with a TRADETRAVISNOW.COM website and have at it.
I think Travis has really struggled through many stretches this season as he starts game one, goes back to the bench, plays the 3 and now more often the 4… lets face it, Travis asked to do alot, and bemoaning his game and belittling his basketball “IQ” is not reflective of the versatility he demonstrates without complaint.
Get off Travis’ back you trade happy back-stabbers and give Travis a pat on the back and appreciate the things he does well for a change… namely wear the rose red and black with BLAZERS strewn across the chest with PRIDE.
Outlaw, you da man, my friend.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
by bow4meow on Dec 18, 2008 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
I'm not sure why my post set you off
But I’m still glad you got it out of your system. I don’t agree with you, but that’s cool. I like to hear both sides.
make it green boys make it green
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
I like this. It's unreal to watch how much flak Travis catchesm after ANY missed shot . . .
A guy like Rudy can go 3-9, 2-7, and 2-11 in three straight games . . . no biggie. Travis has a 2-11 night and there’s 10 fanposts about how “expendable” Travis is. I’ve never seen a guy whose home fan base seems so intent on dismissing any positives and magnifying every single negative. It’s depressing. Travis is a special player and I feel like people that just call for Travis to be traded or expendable haven’t been fans for very long, or at least weren’t fans during the “dark ages”. If you watched Travis grow and see how far he has come since the time we drafted him out of high-school, you would beam with pride, like a father to a son, every time he stepped on the floor. Travis may get traded, he’s very valuable and should bring a nice return, but please give the guy a break.
by Over Analysis on Dec 19, 2008 7:33 AM PST up reply actions
theres a phenomena I cant put my finger on
I was too emotional last night to include it in my tirade, but Im speaking of when people develop some idea in their minds and then every little nuance that occurs is singular justification to prove their theory. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy I suppose. That seems to be what triggers my outbursts when it comes to Travis. When Travis missed a couple shots early last night, I figured, oh sheesh, here they come, more Trout bashing. How many give Travis credits were posted in the second half when his shots were dropping, when he was getting key boards, when he pasted himself on Jason Richardson and forced him to give up the ball, when he gave the team another option besides Roy to keep the Suns defense honest, when the crowd was cheering like mad for him and he had some swagger going back to listen to Coach’s plan during Phoenix called time-outs, when the smile on his face meant we can win this game?
Last night was exactly what Travis needed, a packed house applauding him to remind him stop being hesitant and play his game… and don’t worry about the trade rumors —-THEY ARE NOT TRUE
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Confirmation Bias
And it runs rampant on blogs of all kinds: political, religious, academic, whatever.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
thank you Phizbin
the self-fulfilling prophecy just wasnt hitting the bullseye… you hit the red dot
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Non Biased Post...
Travis as a scoring threat is a critical part of the team right now…his athleticism is amazing and he is still improving …his talent however may make him marketable in a way that makes him tradeable right now — he would draw attention and value from a team ready to exploit his skill set..expendable isn’t the right word…
Without trav draining shots the other night the D woulda collapsed hard on B-Roy and ….well who knows….same for the couple of shots Blake stepped up and made…
Unless he’s involved in a trade for another scoring 3/4, I wouldn’t expect to see Travis moving anywhere B4 Martell is strong and contributing…
KP's mistake
Like all humans KP is fallible. If only KP would have pulled the trigger on the Trout for D. Harris trade last year.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 19, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly doubt
That trade was available in that form. Why would the Nets do that? They would want at least a decent PG, let alone a good young one like Harris, to give up Kidd.
They wouldn’t trade Kidd for a few bench players from Portland and let Portland get the hot young piece.
So, I seriously doubt that the trade was available to Portland in that form because that is a no-brainer, even then.
Morty
It was available before Harris was traded to New Jersey.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 20, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Wait...
…you mean straight from Dallas? Why would they do that?
I meant during the Kidd/Harris New Jersey trade, and we jump in on it and end up with Harris… that theory/rumor that got out, and all we needed to give up was Outlaw. That would mean NJ ended up with a few bench players for JASON KIDD, and didn’t even get the good young PG in return. Why would they do that?
And of course the Mavs wouldn’t trade Harris for just Outlaw, and not get a starting PG out of the deal… especially not when they wanted Jason Kidd.
If we had a chance to get Harris when the deal was going down, it couldn’t have been for just Outlaw. That would be insane for NJ to be okay with, and insane for us to pass up— even last year. Harris was a clear upgrade already, and really young.
Morty
Yup
Anyone saying KP turned down a trade of Harris for Outlaw knows nothing about KP and they are insulting his intelligence. I’m pretty sure KP would trade his daughter for Harris. Either the price was way steeper than Outlaw or it is just a rumor.
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
by tominhawaii on Dec 20, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
How do you know?
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
That rumored error by KP is the most over played and under-proven thing ever
Saying “KP could have traded Outlaw for Harris” is like saying “Saddam did have weapons of mass destruction, they just weren’t found”.
As know as BS.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 21, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
That trade for Harris
obviously was moved to the Bekaa Valley in Syria before KP had a chance to get it.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
The nets really valued JJack at the time
It was a common topic I remember since other NBA teams liked Jack, yet fans here were asking for his head.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 20, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
#25
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Dec 18, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Ann, serious question
As a big Travis fan, how would you feel if he’s traded? Will it affect your enjoyment of the team? Your faith in KP’s decisions?
No sarcasm meant. Actually curious.
Very sad and disappointed. No. No. ; -)
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
To expound and be a little more truthful I could hang out at the Bedge a little
more than I have been lately but I lurk rather than participate because I get tired of the negativity concerning almost every player. I don’t come here to trash the team or anyone on it. I don’t see the fun in that. Lately, when I’ve been able to watch a game and join the Bedge, I’ve noticed that several posters who always joined the Game Day Thread last year (and still contribute daily) are conspicuous by their absence this year. Things change.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Dec 19, 2008 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, definitely some gameday'ers missing these days
But some of the new guys are great. And hopefully there’s enough fun conversation on gameday that some of the old crew return. It’s really not all negative on gamedays.
Also, while there is a bunch of negativity abound at BE, there’s also a lot of critical thinking and conversation about players etc. I love those conversations. It’s important to view players critically, even when they’re doing well. I’d expect KP to do it, and so should we. As long as we don’t let it take away from our enjoyment of the team and the play.
There are, however, some people who are just negative and, at times, intentionally baiting, it seems. That stinks.
Sounds like you and Anne
have laid the groundwork on the December 2008 installment of the “What happened to the good old days of Blazers Edge?” fanpost.
Maybe you guys could co-author it.
Just kidding.
But I totally agree about your critical thinking/evaluation of players, coaches and etc. KP talked in his podcast with Sean about how they have “heated discussions” about players. That’s the only way to be successful. You always need people that will give you the best counter-argument in order to validate the original argument. Only after you have heard the other side can you be fully comfortable with your decision.
I’m sure that strategy has served KP well over the last few years.
And sometimes the arguing might turn negative. But there are two reasons why it should be ok. 1. The reason you are making an argument is to promote the best interests of the team, so the overall goal/objective is exactly what you want. 2. It’s not personal and shouldn’t be personal (that’s why there’s a difference between harsh comments and ad hominem attacks on other posters).
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
interesting
It’s not personal and shouldn’t be personal (that’s why there’s a difference between harsh comments and ad hominem attacks on other posters).
Sounds like you and Anne have laid the groundwork on the December 2008 installment of the "What happened to the good old days of Blazers Edge?" fanpost.
Maybe you guys could co-author it.
your own comment about the importance of healthy diskord vs personal attacks seamingly in itself is littered with… wait for it…personal attacks. just kidding hardly absolves and infact is often used as an ezcuse to abuse. im not 100% on how that stament would apply to you, but from where i sit, it would seam unconfortably accurate.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
i do want to like you
you make unpopular points at time, but the path less traveled often yeilds. unfortunaltly, it seams that noticably, youve also included unnessassaraly cold or harsh talk of anothers ideas, or even holding them in light for ridicule. youve quite more often then me, made relevent points in discution regarding the percieved state of our team. i fear some of thats lost in your delivery.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
I don't want you to want to like me
I’m not worth liking. I think it’s a waste of energy to like me.
I like you, and that’s why I’m telling you not to like me. I know it sounds weird, but please trust. I’m not worth liking. I’m not a good citizen and not a responsible poster.
(and I really do like you. and really don’t think you should like me…. seriously)
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 21, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
BE was much better when the bandwagon was less full.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 19, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yes the bandwagon gets full
when you have a winner …everyone wants to be associated with a winner…You have several different groups of people….staunch fans, fans of basketball (in general), fans with extensive basketball backgrounds, and those who are taking a temporary ride on success, ….+ many others in between…including the social group that seem to want to exclude everyone(that doesn’t fall into their thought process) …it usually results in bashing sidebars and off subject….
So the site needs to have tolerant people ….understanding that there are many different points of view and just because they may strongly disagree doesn’t mean their thoughts are the gilded ones…
it’s all about having respect for others and their opinions….even if you may not like what has been said……The pride of your site should rest in having respect for your fellow man and not letting personal attacks become your way of arguing your point of view….
(IMO) this would not be a good site, if you had all in agreement…having a good balance and many perspectives is what makes this a sound Blog…..I like comments and posts from people who have an extensive knowledge of the game as it truly adds substance and objectivity to comments and posts……
It's all about defense......
Your right in that...
it wouldn’t be a good site if everyone agreed, but even back then there was still a lot of healthy debates. Dave created an awesome environment here and the conversations on BE were much better than O Live or other sites.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 20, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
I'm all for critical thinking and I can think of several new(er) posters who
exhibit that, Norstroll and Cablinasian come to mind. I just get tired of the “he’s an idiot” posts.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I didn't realize Norsk was a newbie
Rookie of the Year anyone?
That guy gets it and always has good finds from other sites.
How would you rate me on a scale of Norsktroll= 10 and “he’s an idiot”= 1
???
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
I really don't have enough information yet to
make that judgment call. Norsktroll is gonna be hard to top.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I know
you’ve had limited access to the internet or whatever lately…
I know I’m not at Norsky’s level… that’s a given. I was hoping to be closer to him than “he’s an idiot” level though. It’s so hard to say because I’m biased and want to be a 6 or 7, but might actually be a 2 or 3.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
You can dock 1 point from The Troll's scorecard for liking the Mavericks so much...
……………………………… that’ll keep the BEdge RoY competition competitive, at least.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
Ever hear of the term "eye of the beholder" ?
In here you will be judged harshly, by the Blazer elite…So, if your looking to be higher than 5, you can’t be too critical….Veterans get more respect, and they get higher #’s for their critical analysis………Fan click it is
my suggestion would be ….there are many more important goals out there in life than getting a high approval rating in BE….
It's all about defense......
that's a good philosophy
don’t suck up to the elitists.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 21, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Those elitists will get what's coming to them.
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
by tominhawaii on Dec 21, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Nah
it’s more about what they won’t get….
It's all about defense......
by 67 on Dec 21, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
its not about being critikle
critikle is good, its more about being thoughtlessly or needlessy rude or inflamatory
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Dec 21, 2008 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
THAT is it in a nutshell, MTR.
Thank you for expressing my thought so succinctly.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I hear ya Ann
The negativity gets me down too. Not only are there more attacks on players, but there’s more personal bickering. Oh well. Spending less time on BE is a good thing. At least the growth has led to an increase in quality posting. It just takes more filtering.
I never was a Gameday regular, but I’ve noticed that the thread is getting so enormous and difficult that it’s tough to lurk there, let alone comment.
As far as #25 goes, I’ll always root for the kid.
gameday threads
I like the gameday threads but usually bow out at gametime as the thread bogs down so much as everyone piles on.
Its funny perusing through so many posts by so many on so many topics, that as I scroll thru, its easier to know who said what anymore and leave the rest undigested.
Being guilty of venting pent up PTB opinion, I understand how easy it is to come off as negative or off-base. Still, benefit of the doubt goes to PTB hyerbole.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Because Travis defenders are tired of watching the haters beat a dead horse
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
by tominhawaii on Dec 19, 2008 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't say Travis is a dead horse
but he’s on his deathbed no doubt.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
the example
between posting quality material and attention seeking
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
the example
between having a sense of humor and lightheartedness and riding a high horse.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 20, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
u meen that was funny?
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
i guess
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
well
to one person at least… but I’m biased of course.
Maybe it wasn’t funny to anyone else in the world.
I live in my own bubble perhaps.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 21, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
here's the deal.
No matter how often we point out how good Travis is, you don’t go along with it.
So oh well.
I like jazz. Not everyone in this world like jazz. Some people like Toby Keith. I’d like to punch that guy in the face.
Sometime between now and the end of the year, you all will be glad Outlaw is a Blazer. It will happen. When it does, I hope you’re all really big like Prezofdeath and make a fanpost about how wrong you were.
Between now and then, I’m not going to follow all your posts and say “You’re wrong” because I don’t have to.
Enjoy the games! – Elgin
It's all blues and no dinner at the Ministry of Bag. The steaks are getting thinner. The office is a drag. - Pete Brown
Hey Thack buddy
did you get your invitation already to TO’s Xmas party?
I think some here know what I think about speculation
on trades and which players we need to get rid of.
However Thack – in my opinion – shows the way to discuss the situation.
I liked how you provided qualifiers that focused the point of your post. You didn’t say Travis needs to go or we need some other SF to make the playoffs, or any other “I obviously know more than the Blazer’s” type of statement. Very well put.
(Not that you need my approval.)
hakkaa päälle !
i dont see any trade wth Travis happening soon
at least until Martell gets back and healthy
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Dec 18, 2008 6:29 PM PST reply actions
I'm excited for Martell to come back.
You already know what’s going to happen, don’t you?
Martell will pick up 5-10 minutes a game for the first two or three. Then, when he’s good and confident, Nate will make him the starter and TO the backup. That system will work for about two games, when the fans will start asking for Nate’s head because TO is making too many mistakes and Batum is sitting on the bench. About ten games after that, Batum will unexpectedly play 20+ minutes and have his best game as a Blazer. Outlaw will either then begin his DNP-CDs or be traded at that point.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
I think it's entirely possible that Trout will move into Frye's spot.
He’ll pick up erratic numbers at backup PF, anywhere between 15 minutes and DNP-CD depending on matchups. Frye will be the odd man out, picking up the consistent DNP-CDs.
Either way, Trout’s minutes will be way down and he’ll be unhappy about it.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 18, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
unlikely
Trout is not the typical selfish look-at-me glory pig so common in todays game. Travis is humble to the core and wouldn’t harbor any discontent if coach sat him out of a game or reduced his minutes. Its Travis’ unselfishness, good-nature and willingness to do whats best for the team that allows him to fit in so nicely with the guys surrounding him. To suggest Travis would be upset about not getting minutes is just not to understand him AT ALL.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
I hope so
Not saying Travis is a selfishguy because he isn’t, but my inference on him based on what I’ve read (e.g. the big Quick off-season article)/heard Travissay is he sees himself as a starter. Obviously, you want all the guys on the squad to be confident in their abilities, but my concern is that if he sees his role as one thing, and the coaches see it a different way, there could be some friction. Travis has accepted and done well in the 6th man role, but if he’s not completely satisfied in that capacity I worry how he’ll handle being the 8th/9th guy.
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Dec 19, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Also
he mentioned wanting to take more shots per game than last year.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 19, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
and wanted to make an All-Star game eventually
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
he might become an all star...
for xmas i was gonna give travis a book so that he could improve his bbiq and become an all star one day.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 19, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
wow
harsh. (I’ll admit to chuckling a bit, but that will not please his homers)
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 19, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
nah i like travis
his bbiq just frustrates me. he’ll always improve his skills, but after all these years you’d think he’d understand the game a bit more.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 19, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions
That's just it
How long does KP give him to understand the game? He’s into his 6th year now. Does KP see him as part of the future championship team? If not, it’s probably better to trade him while his value is still near the top of the apex than waiting till he’s on the way down.
how many times have you used the phrase "BBIQ" in your posts?
Seriously. I’m curious. It seems to appear in every single post you make.
by Over Analysis on Dec 20, 2008 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
and doesn't it seem like
when you say a guy needs to read “Basketball FOR DUMMIES” you are indicting his regular IQ, not just his BBIQ.
Seems to me like a cheap shot at him as a person. Then again, I would never pick Travis to be my partner on a team Jeopardy or Trivial Pursuit tournament. Not sure he has a ton going for him up in the noggin. But I don’t know that for a fact, so I’m not going to say he lacks a BBIQ a non-BB IQ, or any other kind of IQ.
by Bust a Bucket on Dec 20, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
the problem
is definition…..BBIQ does not have the equation part…so it’s wide open to interpretation …I think most basketball experts would see this as a relative curve and make judgements based on decision making and quick skill application…also the ability to understand the big picture as a format that puts you in the right position as the play of the game develops…..
It's all about defense......
not much more than the average poster
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 20, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
U speak the truth
I definatly see that possible happening. i just hope martell doesnt disappear for minutes at a time when his shot is off. Batum blocks shots and plays team defense.
Without Travis...
we don’t win the Phoenix game. He gave us a lift when we needed it
The inbound to McGinnis, drives, stops, pumps, shoots, short, no good...AND THE GAME IS OVER! ~ Bill Schonely
by SandbergOnSports on Dec 18, 2008 10:48 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Travis played well tonight.
He does this – he is a good offensive player and he has good games. I think that Rudy and Martell can fill that role, too.
Whether you love Trout or hate him...
There’s no chance. Travis can do things those guys just can’t. If he can continue to attack the rim every other shot, rather than taking all Js, the talk about him being expendable might die down a bit.
The most spectacular play might have been the one where they called him for palming. Man, he can get UP.
I’ve bashed Travis’s BBIQ as much as anybody, but as a scorer off the bench, it’s not really even arguable that he’s MUCH more versatile than Rudy. Right now, Rudy’s really just a shooter and an occasional dunker. He’s a much (much, much) better passer than Trout, but I’m not sure he renders Travis as expendable as people (myself included) have repeatedly said.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Dec 19, 2008 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Travis is a singular talent on this team and possesses a combination of skills that are not easily replaced.
Considering him “expendable” is just plain ignorant.
by Over Analysis on Dec 19, 2008 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
amen brothers amen
without travis we lose to Phx no question tonight.
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
Travis may be a pain in the butt to watch sometimes
But he sure wins us games.
If he read this,
then you should make a similar post before every game. He was great tonight. Some great rebounds too.
rebounding
I agree that Trout’s clutch rebounding (did you see that tip-in to end the 3rd) is what tips the scale in his favor for me right now. I think his shot-creating ability is about canceled out by his mediocre bbiq/shot selection and bad defense (going UNDER a pick for Matt “I haven’t missed a 3 all game” Barnes in the corner????) but the rebounding and athleticism he brings was a real bonus for us during that 3rd quarter stretch. He seems to be fluctuating in his attention to rebounding but if he can develop consistency there I think he’s worth keeping despite his deficiencies.
We lose this game vs the suns without
Trout’s great performance.
by Sabonis4Ever on Dec 19, 2008 12:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Travis
was unbelievable in the 3rd quarter tonight. I still think that of the rotation guys, he’s the one who would be the “best” to trade (balances value in return and is the most replaceable, imo) but he did some things tonight nobody else on this team can do.
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
I actually agree with you about Travis--even after tonight
In order to get value, you generally must give up value. Trout is very good, so he could help bring a needed role-player to the Blazers—say a Paul Millsap-type. But if the Blazers do give up Trout, they’d better get someone very good in return. Because tonight showed us yet again what Trout can do when he’s on. Yes, he made mistakes out there. But MAN, did he make some big plays!
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
If the Blazers are going to make the playoffs
They are going to need production from Batum, Webster, and Outlaw the rest of the season and in the playoffs.
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
Probably true
I wouldn’t be in any hurry to unload Trout. Batum is still a 19-year-old rookie, and Webster has hardly laced up his sneakers this season. I’m talking long-term—and again, only if the Blazers get great value in return. I just feel the Blazers’ roster is seriously unbalanced, with so many stringbean forwards (LMA, Trout, Batum, & Frye). This will really hamper the Blazers in the playoffs, when paint play takes on a sumo wrestling aspect.
Frye definitely seems on his way out (a shame, because he’s such a great guy, and bright to boot). But long-term, I think Trout’s combo of trade value and low basketball IQ also make him likely trade fodder.
Having said all this, if Trout sticks around I won’t be knashing my teeth. Who could hate Catfish Outlaw? Great guy, and an amazing talent. Wise are the ways of KP, and he may find another way to bring some necessary physicality to the Blazers’ roster.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
whatever trade they make
among any of these players, they need to get someone quite awesome in return.
Millsap ain’t enough. You need more than that in return. – Elgin
It's all blues and no dinner at the Ministry of Bag. The steaks are getting thinner. The office is a drag. - Pete Brown
How about Millsap, with LeBron & Chris Paul thrown in?
Come on, let’s be realistic. The rest of the league wants Trout, but they also know his limitations. Teams tend to do their homework. Of course, Millsap has his limitations also—e.g., he gets his shot blocked a lot.
In any case, PM is just an example of the type of player who I feel the Blazers need to add in order to win playoff series. But if I were GM and the opportunity were presented to me, then sure: I’d swap Trout straight across for Paul Millsap. Not without regret: I do love Catfish and the team and city would surely miss him.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
I would LOVE to get Millsap for Trout.
Get that deal done today! He’s exactly the kind of player we need.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 19, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Utah knows well what they have in Millsap. They'll let the mercenary Boozer walk and keep Millsap.
………………………… they wouldn’t trade with a divisional rival even if Travis for Millsap was an even-steven deal to them, which it is not.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
Oh, definitely.
We won’t be able to get Millsap from Utah… at least, not for just Trout. He’s the kind of player I’d like KP to turn Travis into, though.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Dec 20, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
You can't change someone's body type
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
Is there a basketball IQ stat?
How is it measured?
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
You start at 100, and subtract 1 for every boneheaded move and add 1 for every good action
After a season, you tally up and compare to others. Kinda like the Kerr Moron Meter at Bright Side of the Sun.
Dear Thack
Please write a post about Rudy being expendable before the next game.
Also, please start composing posts about Channing and Ike. These guys can use some help.
Thank you for your assistance.
Love,
Travis
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
I was going to rail against this post yesterday, but I restrained myself . . .
Travis speaks for himself. #25.
Do you think as Jarrett got traded, he went over to Trouts house
shook his hand and apologized to him in advance. Good luck my friend. Then handed him the target the blazers fans shoot at?
Travis Outlaw: The Jarrett Jack of 2008-09
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
What??!
Jarrett Jack got traded because he complained to the coach about his role, specifically being played out of position, not getting the shots he felt he deserved and wanting more personal glory otherwise being distributed to the core guys. Too bad for Jarrett Jack. Had he bought into the system and did what he was asked without complaining he wouldn’t have been jettisoned.
I find no similiarities between Travis and Jarrett.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Jack was jettisoned
primarily because he didn’t show enough improvement to convince anyone that he was going to be the answer at the point. Secondarily, because a lot of his minutes were backing up Brandon, and Rudy is better for that role.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Yeah, I think this is closer to the mark
Jack was just the odd man out.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
He showed enough that Larry Bird thought he was good
and Bird was prepared to give up Bayless and Diogu to get him.
A good deal for the Blazers, and a good deal for the Pacers, who weren’t going to go into this season with TJ Ford going 40 minutes a game. They needed someone else who was serviceable at the position who could spell Ford. They got their man in Jarrett Jack. – Elgin
It's all blues and no dinner at the Ministry of Bag. The steaks are getting thinner. The office is a drag. - Pete Brown
They also wanted Brandon Rush
It was a win-win. Rush + Jack to Indiana, Bayless to Portland. Ike and McBob were just salary matching. In the long run, I’m pretty sure this helped both teams.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
+1
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Dec 19, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Jack was sent packing
Because of his selfish attitude. Jarrett did show improvement in his game as a Trail Blazer and made some decent strides. Before he let his me first attitude get in the way of the teams progress, I liked what I saw from JJ. He worked on his shot and had no fear taking the ball to the hole. I honestly felt when JJ hung his head on the practice floor until Nate asked him what was wrong, then Jarrett said nothing, before turning that quickly around into complaining about his role, well, the writing was on the wall. Certainly JJ wasnt “the answer” but he greased his own slide.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
You may be right
about “greasing his own slide”, but it was inevitable, anyway.
You keep young players who aren’t playing that well because of the potential to improve. When a third year player gets lots of minutes, but doesn’t improve, then you conclude he isn’t going to.
KP was convinced that both Sergio and Blake were going to be better this year. That pushed JJ into 3rd string at both guard positions. His value was much higher as a trade asset.
When the trade was agreed, it was either Bayless or Augustin (we didn’t yet know which) for JJ and Rush. That was more valuable to us than keeping JJ as a third string combo guard, no matter what his attitude was like. JJ was, in part, a victim of the minutes crunch. He was going to get about as many minutes as Jerryd is getting right now. The difference is that he would have been a fourth year player, not a rookie. A rookie who gets no minutes is waiting his turn. A fourth year player with no minutes is done. It was magic to turn him into a high-potential rookie.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Maybe we gave Jarrett Jack the incentive
to go out last night and score 27 points, dish out 7 dimes, and snare 3 steals (in a loss however.)
I hate it when that happens.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
When you put together a talented team
It’s inevitable that traded players will have some REALLY good nights. Such as JJ, Zach, and I expect JJ33 will have at least one great game upon return too.
I’m just fine with the trades we’ve recently made, thanks to seeing the team we have in return. More power to Jack, I hope he does well. I just think we’re better off in the long run due to the transaction he was involved in.
I used to go crazy watching players go nuts after we traded them (O’Neal recently… further back, Drazen and Moses Malone). But I feel we’ve made reasonable trades lately. If Jack becomes an all-star, so be it. Nobody will look back and say “what were we thinking?”… it was a fair deal when it happened.
Fear not: JJ won't be an all-star
And this is from a JJ booster. (I thought his ability to get to the line and hit foul shots in crunch time was underappreciated in these parts.)
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
well Moses never played for us
I was pretty young but I recall my dad saying they let a good one get away in Moses. Maybe I get too attached to my team. I was fuming when Drazen got traded because I just loved his herky-jerky Euro movement, and I thought Jermaine was the long-term solution behind Arvydas. Jermaine was tall and skinny but he had no fear of Shaq and thats something I cant say about Dale Davis.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Plus, if it gets you a championship, you can't complain about any trades
no matter how ridiculous that Shaq for Butler and Odom trade looks now (after this year, Miami will have nothing to show for it while Butler is still an All star), Shaq got them a ring, so it paid off.
"They're professionals"
Is what people say when talking about trading a good locker room guy. But with this team, morale is a big plus. They’re beginning to believe! So I think you take solidarity in to consideration. Travis is a freak on the court. But he seems to be tied in to the heart that they play with.
Barring any Chauncey Billups type opportunities arising in the league, I say give ’em this season to figure it out for themselves.
right on dude
that’s got to be the plan. – Elgin
It's all blues and no dinner at the Ministry of Bag. The steaks are getting thinner. The office is a drag. - Pete Brown
Outlaw versus the Suns
Outlaw giveth and taketh. Outlaw played inspired basketball for about 5 minutes of the game and played pretty dumb the rest of the time. Aside from that stretch where he was nailing those tough fadeaway jumpers, he also cost the Blazers 6 points by himself.
In the 4th quarter, he went completely under a screen allowing a wide open 3 pointer by Barnes in the corner. You can actually see one of the Blazer assistants get mad even before Barnes made the shot. Then around 2 min in the 4th quarter, Outlaw has a brain freeze and doesn’t get back on D to match up with Barnes. You can see Roy yelling at Outlaw to cover his man. Barnes hits another 3 in the corner with Roy running at him. Outlaw must have been confused because the Suns had a cross-match with Barnes on Roy, but the Blazers were matching up Outlaw on Barnes. These are just the little things that make a BIG difference.
This is Outlaw, always will be Outlaw. The best you can hope for game in and game out is just a canceling out of dumb bad plays.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on Dec 19, 2008 1:46 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You forgot the play when he missed Rudy wide open for a three
Rudy was waving wildly for the ball, with no Sun within 10 feet of him. But Trout had tunnel vision.
Still, Trout is SO talented. If the Blazers do trade him, I’m sure it won’t be without regret—and concern that the trade will come back to haunt them.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
You've got that right
KP is fully aware of Travis’ positives and negatives. He won’t make a trade lightly, and he’ll make sure it’s in the team’s best interests if he trades Travis.
I don’t think KP will be worried about the trade haunting him. If he thinks it’ll haunt him, he won’t pull the trigger. If it does haunt him, it’ll probably be a surprise to him.
Sure, Travis is going to have improved stats if he’s traded. That’s almost guaranteed: He’ll likely move into a starting role and get 5-10 more shots per game than in Portland. It doesn’t mean he’ll be any better or worse of a player though. As long as fan’s perspective holds (that he would never have been in that role here, and the team he’s starting for is likely not championship-caliber), then KP likely won’t be questioned. Especially if the trade gives us an important puzzle piece.
It would have to be a good puzzle piece
and anyone who is getting 36 minutes a game is going to be a lot more in the flow than the guy who is only getting 12 minutes a game. It’s more than just the 5-10 more shots. – Elgin
It's all blues and no dinner at the Ministry of Bag. The steaks are getting thinner. The office is a drag. - Pete Brown
Travis is a keeper
Last year I was one of those Outlaw supporters. When Batum came on and surprised everyone, I then thought the same thing – that Travis was expendable…that is until last night. I know one night should not make a difference, but it reminded me why I liked him in the first place.
My two cents
The only thing keeping Travis from being an untouchable part of this roster is his lack of consistency. If he could score and rebound like he did against the Suns and play defense like he did in Orlando, posts like these would be patently absurd.
The problem is, he hasn’t developed enough for how long he has been in the league, he’s not committed to improving his game as much as Batum or Webster, and he only displays glimpses of his true potential about every full moon.
That’s not enough, and it’s why you’ll see KP move Travis to clear room and for other assets, whether they be immediate or future ones.
One thing last night showed: we need a second player that can create his own shot to play on the floor with Brandon. It’s just asking Roy too much to carry the load each and every night.
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
This Suns game is vintage Outlaw
And it both shows why he is valuable, and why he is so frustrating.
Like KP Corleone says, even though Outlaw is best served being on a team that needs bench scoring, there isn’t any reason that can’t still be Portland even though our bench hasn’t struggled to score MUCH this year.
And I agree with that. It just means, you can never, ever, ever rely on Outlaw. You heat check him, and let him roll if he’s on. If he isn’t, you try to not let him hurt you with bad shots and bad turnovers.
And you just can’t expect him to be more than that, no matter how good he looks on these sort of nights, and how athletic he is. He doesn’t have the work ethic, the drive, or the in-game decision making ability to be more than a scorer— and a streak scorer at that.
That’s what he was last year when we all loved him, and it’s the same now. It’s just less important because our bench is better now, but it is still important— Outlaw’s run in the Suns game made that a winnable game, and Roy and Blake and LMA did the rest. Without Outlaw, we likely don’t win. It was a good Outlaw game.
As long as we don’t expect that every game, and see him for what he is— a loveable, great kid… but inconsistent and untrustworthy when he isn’t making every shot. It hasn’t changed from last year, and won’t likely change at this point.
I know some people argued he had more potential than guys like Teyshaun Prince, and he would end up better than them… and it just shows a lack of understanding of what makes a guy like Prince great. It isn’t his scoring (which is fine), it’s his effort and mental approach to the game. He can be trusted to be a PG on his team, make smart passes, and to know what to do in different situations. Travis has to have the game be made simple for him: go out and shoot the dang ball.
He has gotten better at obvious passes, gotten a little worse at shot selection, and otherwise remained the same Outlaw. He just is not a cerebral player, and we can’t expect him to magically become one.
I do not want to trade Outlaw. He gets waaaay too much guff, considering this is the same guy as last season. He frustrates the hell out of me (and did in the Suns game even, like when he suddenly decides he guards the top of the key in the zone instead of covering the corner (and the wide open Barnes) like he is supposed to), but we love him all the same.
I know we WANT him to be better, but based on what we’ve seen, this is Travis, for better or worse. And it is still useful. Just please, please… please don’t your hopes too high after these games, or too low after his other sort of game. It’s just Travis.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Dec 20, 2008 3:44 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
I'm gonna tag onto Morty just because Morty = God and a little closeness to God never hurt anyone...
…………………………… As with Morty, I am WAY IN THE MIDDLE on Outlaw. I don’t hate him and I don’t love him. I think the “low BB IQ” thing is some sort of racist or anti-southerner or elitist slag on Travis because of who he is and where he came from. What Travis is is an UNREPENTANT GUNNER. He is a shooter and he’ll shoot and shoot and shoot some more, and if his shot is falling, he’s quite a heroic figure indeed — and if it’s not, the goat horns are ready and waiting and fit perfectly.
Outlaw’s Extreme Superpower Skill is the ability to jump. He can elevate and GET his shot against anybody. Not that he’s gonna MAKE that shot, mind you, but the ability to CREATE a shot is a very valuable basketball skill indeed.
Travis’ jumping ability and long arms also create the POSSIBILITY of being able to create strong defensive stands. He gets burned like a souffle on a wood stove all too often by not getting in position to defend, but if you’ve got 45 seconds on the clock and you need a stop bad, he’s not a bad guy to have out there.
He seems like a nice person. He is NOT a jackass, as as we all know there is something to be said for that. A great deal to be said for that.
His contract ($4M-ish) is very managable — seemingly below market value.
Whatcha gonna do? If he catches the ball and starts dribbling the ball, he’s gonna shoot the ball. That’s not going to change, as Morty indicates. Travis is Travis and always will be Travis. But who are you going to trade him to, for what? The only GLARING missing piece on this team is a backup Power Forward that can mash — are you going to transform Travis into that magical puzzle piece? I doubt it.
So you go with what you know.
t
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 20, 2008 8:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the curve
considering all thats been read, theres a common sentiment about Travis’ developmental curve, and his being in his sixth year. I disagree with those who expect more from Travis at this stage in his career. Here’s why. Let’s use Paul Allens time machine to go back to a past universe where Travis actually went to college for four years (insert your what was his degree field jokes here.)
Travis would have been given much more fundamental instruction and personal mentoring in the game itself, not to mention the game of life. He would have come out of college with a much sturdier skills platform as opposed to his throw him in the water and see if he can swim approach the NBA granted him. This would make Travis a 2nd year player in the league and his critics would still only have the insulting hoops IQ misappropriations to drag him down with.
I have been an Outlaw fan since he came in the league and perhaps with rose-red colored glasses on see the development he has made each season many don’t give him credit for. For a kid as young as Travis is, as talented as he is, as willing to learn as he is, and have a coach and GM with the patience they have, I find it hard to believe his curve has flattened out.
As to Travis wanting to achieve, to be a starter, to be an all-star someday, how can such imagination and vision be reflective of a hoops dunce? There is always going to be the percentage of “fans” who criticize the guy rather then critique him.
Travis, buddy, you are still my favorite Trail Blazer for what its worth.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Travis still has room to grow
I really doubt he was in a great learning environment with Mo Cheeks as the coach, with Ruben Patterson, Zach Randolph, Qyntel Woods, Bonzi Wells, Rasheed Wallace, and Darius Miles as his mentors in his first few seasons. In prison he would have just been called “meat.”
"There is a difference between having two guys banging down low and having two guys who can bang down low." - Blazin'
by tominhawaii on Dec 20, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
good point
It might be easy to conclude someone like Travis would easily buy into the negativity all those aforementioned brought to the team. As a young and naive kid, Travis had to show extraordinary resilience in keeping a positive attitude and working hard. Don’t forget, its not like Nate ever took it easy on Travis and really pushed Travis in a way that probly endeared himself to the tag “Sarge.” A sort of tough-love mothering. Fortunately Travis had the instinct of who to buy into and who to avoid. The points solid in that the BBIQ misconception is frought with cultural bias… from either perspective.
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
Travis can still improve
We’ve seen marginal improvement in a couple areas this year — 3 point shooting, passing. He’s still young.
I expect them to target one or two areas for him to work on this off-season, and we’ll see yet another incremental improvement in Travis next year. Probably some aspect of his defense.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
Like you, I'm "in the middle" on Trout
As I said elsewhere in this thread, I love Trout the person and Trout the basketball talent. But I think his trade value and relative expendability (Batum and Martell, in particular, duplicate some of his skills) make him likely trade bait. And, critically, I DO think he lacks basketball IQ, court vision, court awareness, or whatever term you wish to apply.
Speaking of that: I question your charge that those who denigrate Trout’s basketball smarts are “racist or anti-southerner or elitist.” First, you can throw out the racist angle, as no one at this site has questioned the basketball IQ of Brandon Roy, Channing Frye, LMA, or any of the other African-American Blazers who possess obvious hoops smarts. So why throw that nasty charge out there?
As for the anti-southern or elitist angle, there you may be on to something—kinda sorta. It’s easy for us northern urbanites to jump to the conclusion that anyone with a drawl is a dumb hick. But in Travis’ case, he’s had several seasons now to shatter any stereotypes based on his down-home, country background. The plain fact is, Travis makes bone-headed plays at both ends of the basketball court—LOTS of them. Most of us love the guy just the same—and partly because he IS so country. A friend of mine dubbed him “Catfish,” and it’s a term of endearment.
The only problem is that Travis plays a postion at which the Blazers are currently loaded, and his exceptional talent makes his trade value high. Combine that with his tendency to cancel out his great plays with critical mistakes, and Travis looks like he may be the odd man out. Personally, I’d be kind of bummed, because Trout is so likeable and especially because he can be electrifying to watch.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
Dang it: that was supposed to be a reply to Timbo.
"If [Roy & Aldridge] walked around in fur coats, with a bunch of glamour & glitz, we'd have a bunch of guys wearing fur coats. But they don't. They're just good guys who want to win and know how to play the right way." --Kevin Pritchard
I think it's a middle thing for many......
Travis will always be on the bubble until he can develop some other aspects of his game….He could use his outrageous athletic ability to a huge advantage…I think this is why people get frustrated with his play….he hasn’t learned to use his greatest asset as a player….
And it’s funny you mentioned the Suns game as an example….Because you saw two different Travis’s in each half…the first half ….nothing….the second half entirely different……and what made him different was not shooting (a measure most people use) but simple application of energy, using hustle ,desire, determination ….full use of his athletic ability….He went after every rebound,and loose ball and helped Roy carry the team……Inspired play…..If Travis can get this, he will never be thought of as trade bait…..He has to step up and realize that you are not always going to be a scoring hero, but you still can contribute in so many other ways…..
It's all about defense......
by 67 on Dec 20, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
Super Trout
Granted it was a preseason game but Marty looked amazing so it’s not like having Trout is killing us.
Travis reminds me of Ruben Patterson. He can singlehandly keep you in a game or get you a win when the other team is killing the rest of your team. Then again he can bonehead you right out of a game. Trick is to know when to put him in or take him out of a game.
In the Suns game the time to set the hook was obvious.
Travis reminds you of "the sandwich?"
wow…. that woke me up more than limbs crashing in the front yard and two cups of joe.
OK, have the point, but we must agree this perspective reflects his ON-COURT GAME only, right?
Some comments may not be 100% accurate
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